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View Full Version : 350 Watts Enough for a Prescott?


Goon
10-11-2004, 05:47 PM
Building my next comp:
P4 Prescott 3.0ghz (LGA775)
ABIT "AG8" i915P (PCI-E 16x)
2x80gig Western Digital hds
6600gt vid card (still gotta wait for that to come out :P )
4x512 megs of pc3200 ram

Will 350 watts be enough to run this computer well or should I bump up the power supply?

Tarrbot
10-11-2004, 10:54 PM
You will need to bump up the PSU. 350W isn't enough for Prescott by itself, let alone PCI-e and a 6600 video card.

On power, more is always better. You will never know how much you will need down then line. I have had this 450W PSU for 4+ years and will likely continue with it into my next system.

Yeah, that "futureproofing is a lie" thread is out, but there are some things you can futureproof. PSUs are one of them.

leas5040
10-11-2004, 10:59 PM
I would bump up the power supply. Do something around 450-500. It won't hurt to have more than you need, but it will certainly cause trouble if you have less. Besides, the P4's are not exactly power friendly, and the NVIDIA cards require the extra power connector anyway. Better safe than sorry, and something in the range that I specified doesn't cost that much more than the 350w one you would be staying with.

Goon
10-11-2004, 11:08 PM
Aite. Thx. I'll go for a 450watt powersupply (plus I don't think the case power supply comes with the new 24pin connect I'll need for this board, and its probably a piece of crap too).

lots
10-12-2004, 03:42 AM
the NVIDIA cards require the extra power connector anyway.
Building my next comp:
P4 Prescott 3.0ghz (LGA775)
ABIT "AG8" i915P (PCI-E 16x)
2x80gig Western Digital hds
6600gt vid card (still gotta wait for that to come out :P )
4x512 megs of pc3200 ram

He wants the 6600GT, which to my knowledge doesnt require an external power source, it gets all it needs from the PCIe bus which can supply up to 75watts. Which is shows, because the Geforce 6800 Ultra, actually uses just slightly over the max power supplied by PCIe x16 (about 77watts, though it can peak at up to 120). Anyway the more important issue here is not really the wattage from the PSU, but the ability of the PSU to push clean power. And push it effectivly for long periods of time. You could have a 500 watt psu for all i care, if it doesnt create a stable source of power for the system, it will fry things. Granted you want to give your self some cieling on the wattage, in case you want to add more devices and such. But I would be more concerned with the quality of the power source, than the ammount of wattage that comes from it. Well as long as the wattage could supply the total wattage demands of the system.

imashination
10-12-2004, 09:40 AM
You will need to bump up the PSU. 350W isn't enough for Prescott by itself, let alone PCI-e and a 6600 video card.

Where did you get such a thing from? Im currently running 2 machines with the 3 gig chip and a gf 6800ultra in one and a radeon x800pro in the other. 2 harddrives, dvd burner, card reader, sound card, tv card, powering a large wacom all from a 250w supply. It is a shuttle, but their PSU isn't THAT fantastic.

I still don't see what the obsession round here is with power supplies.

Tarrbot
10-12-2004, 02:26 PM
imashination, if you are running those setups with 250W PSUs, you really are affecting the longevity of those machines. Here's a Guide (http://www.pcpowercooling.com/maxpc/index_cases.htm) from PC Power and Cooling on wattage ratings.

Not sure about your entire system, but from what I gather and assuming you only have 1GB of RAM, you are perilously close to the edge.

CPU = 70W
Motherboard = 25W (assuming low end here)
video card = 50W (assuming X800 Pro here)
RAM = 64W (assuming 1GB here)
sound card = 8W (assuming mid-level wattage consumption here)
DVD burner = 18W (assuming mid-level wattage here)
TV card = 8W
_______________________
Total = 243W

I don't know if you have a floppy or how many fans you have. The floppy runs 5W while each fan runs an additional 3W.

As an additional measure, x-bit labs (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/ati-powercons.html) states the nVidia recommendation:
The well-known story about GeForce 6800 Ultra graphics cards, for which NVIDIA recommends a PSU with a wattage of 480W or at least 350 ?high-quality? watts only adds pessimism into the calculation of the future expense.

As an aside, I must state that my preference for the PC Power and Cooling guide stems from the fact that an old associate of mine wrote the article from which the guide came from. If you want to know how close this associate was, his desk was next to mine.

If you want to see bias in that, so be it.

However, you can't ignore the x-bit labs statement or the nVidia statement.

Vertizor
10-12-2004, 04:54 PM
When it's all said and done, 350W PSU should be enough *IF* it is indeed a 350W PSU. If you buy a cheapo PSU, the amount of wattage it actually yields may be lower than what's on the label. It's not false advertisement or ripping you off. The wattage of these PSU only tells what the peak output of these PSUs are, not necessarily how much they will put out on average. High quality (more expensive) PSUs will perform closer to the watt rating on the label.

So if you buy a cheapo 450W PSU, you might as well get the 350 because that cheap 450W would perform similarly.

leas5040
10-12-2004, 05:11 PM
He wants the 6600GT, which to my knowledge doesnt require an external power source, it gets all it needs from the PCIe bus which can supply up to 75watts. Which is shows, because the Geforce 6800 Ultra, actually uses just slightly over the max power supplied by PCIe x16 (about 77watts, though it can peak at up to 120). Anyway the more important issue here is not really the wattage from the PSU, but the ability of the PSU to push clean power. And push it effectivly for long periods of time. You could have a 500 watt psu for all i care, if it doesnt create a stable source of power for the system, it will fry things. Granted you want to give your self some cieling on the wattage, in case you want to add more devices and such. But I would be more concerned with the quality of the power source, than the ammount of wattage that comes from it. Well as long as the wattage could supply the total wattage demands of the system.


The 6600GT requires the new molex connector from the power supply, the regular 6600 doesn't.

Goon
10-12-2004, 05:33 PM
Well this is what I think I'll be going with:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=17-159-024&depa=0
COOLMAX 450W CX-450B, BLACK, Taurus CX Series Silent Power Supply; 1 x 120mm fan, 3 Speed Fan Control Switch ( Auto, Low, Medium).
Model# CX-450B (Black) Item # N82E16817159024
Specifications:
Type: ATX
Maximum Power: 450W
PFC: No
Power Good Signal:
Hold-up Time: Not specified
Efficiency: >65% at full load
Over Voltage Protection: on all output
Overload Protection: on all output
Input Voltage:
Input Frequency Range:
Input Current: Not specified
Output: +3.3V@30A, +5V@45A, -5V@1A, +12V@15A, -12V@1A, +5VSB@2.5A
MTBF: Not specified
Approvals: UL, CSA, TUV, CE 100-500ms 100~132VAC or 200~264VAC 47~63Hz

Its pretty highly rated on Newegg. Think this'll do fine?

imashination
10-12-2004, 05:33 PM
The initial claim by nvidia that their cards needed 480 as a minimum were them just looking after themselves with the reviewers. They only ever asked reviewers to use high power PSUs to make sure that wasnt an issue with crashing when they tested. The official recommendation is 350watts, and that is only because most psus are complete garbage and can rarely provide 250 in the real world. A decent 350 watt supply will be more than enough for most people

Your reply is accurate and well appreciated, im just trying to counter balance some of the rampant "you need a 600watt psu for your wrist watch!" type replys that seem to get thrown around here every week.

lots
10-12-2004, 07:13 PM
The 6600GT requires the new molex connector from the power supply, the regular 6600 doesn't. http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040907/images/6600gt-front.jpg
http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA5NDE1OTY3NjNLZHRoZ24wVjdfMV8zX2wuanBn
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/nvidia/geforce6600gt/B_GEF_6600_GT_PCIE_F_S.jpg
http://tech-report.com/reviews/2004q3/geforce-6600gt/card-top.jpg
http://bit-tech.net/images/review/352/GeForce6600GT-6800GT.jpg
http://hothardware.com/image_popup.cfm?image=big_card1.jpg&articleid=578&t=a
http://www.beyond3d.com/previews/nvidia/nv43/images/b1.jpg

Taken from a bunch of different review sites. None of the pictures of the card appear to have the molex connector you're describing. However, they DO have what appears to be the outline to have one installed, but from what was said in the reviews, it seems nvidia was able to cut it out.

leas5040
10-12-2004, 10:23 PM
Ah yes. My bad. I was running on outdated information, particularly the first article Tom's wrote about the 6600GT, where they said that the connector was going to be only on the GT, but with the newer article, they point out:

Originally, the company had planned to ship the first batch of retail cards concurrently with their launch, but then decided at the last minute to remove the second auxiliary power connector on the bigger GT version of the card. Thank you for pointing out the err in my ways. I haven't had nearly enough time lately to keep up with the small changes in the hardware industry.

lots
10-12-2004, 10:28 PM
yeah.. as of late i've had lots of idle time :)

I just wanted to cover plenty of ground and not use one review ..

stephen2002
10-13-2004, 03:03 PM
As long as you get a good brand of PSU it is really amazing just what you can run off one :)

My system is Dual 2.8GHz Xeon, 1GB RAM, 6800GT, 2 10,000RPM HD, 1 7,200 RPM HD, 4PCI cards (audigy2ZS, FireWire, TVTuner, Wireless), 6 fans, 2 optical drives, USB Keyboard, Graphire2. All run off of a 430W AntecTrue Power. Most people are like "holy shit you need 600W", but the whole thing has been running fine at 100% CPU for a year now.

Tarrbot
10-14-2004, 06:03 PM
imashination states:Your reply is accurate and well appreciated, im just trying to counter balance some of the rampant "you need a 600watt psu for your wrist watch!" type replys that seem to get thrown around here every week.
Thanks, imashination. I must admit that my first line in my original post was a bit exaggerated. This is likely what you were responding to.

parallax
02-20-2005, 01:04 PM
Something is seriously flawed in that PC Power and Cooling guide.

When i use the values in that table, my systems currently uses 384 Watts of power, and then i should even multiply it by 1.8?! Thats 691.2 Watts. Even when i use the minimum values that would total over 490 Watts!!

I'm running an Athlon 2600+ with 2 WD Raptors, and 2 WD 800JB's, 1.5 Gigs of RAM, a GeForce Ti4200, 3 active casefans, 2 networkcards and a DVD burner. Add a keyboard, Mouse and Wacom, and maube 2 Watts for my Lacie external drive. All this in an Antec 1080AMG (i think it's rated 430 Watts)

All running fine and dandy, and here's the kicker: I want to add another HDD and maybe a decklinkcard, so i really need some proper info on this, so while i'm at it i would like to pose the question:

Can i add another HDD and a Decklinkcard without blowing up my PSU(system contains 4 WD drives already), and if the PC Power & Cooling guide is utter crap, is there any proper info around on this topic?

Tarrbot
02-20-2005, 05:27 PM
I came up with 314W for the "lowend" and 401W for the "highend" of the scale.

I did not use the external drive since I didn't know if that was a USB powered drive or what.

With those numbers, it's very possible that you may be nearing your limit. However, it's also possible that you aren't to that limit yet.

I never use the multiplier for determining wattage. I may be wrong in doing so though.

kex
02-20-2005, 10:46 PM
GAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh need power

get a decent psu not a 800,000 kw monster

and who keeps saying you need super powered psus round here?

but these presctts drink alot of power

parallax
02-21-2005, 10:33 PM
I am running a proper PSU, it's an Antec Truepower 430 Watts.

Tarrbot
02-25-2005, 02:06 AM
Here's (http://extreme.outervision.com/index.jsp) a good link for calculating power.

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