Large scene - render possibilities ?

[krazatchu]

so here it is....
im drunken... (thats what u get for livin in korea..)

im curious... if anyne has ever treid to render using the virtual viewport.....

is this a viable answer or should i look into compositing shadows speratly from the scene...

.... so if i render using the virtual viewport.... will it reduce the ram usage ??? but still maitian shadws?


well... please give me some advice... as there doesnt seem to be any tutorials on rendering... or creating/ editing/layer mangement on realy large exterior scenes...


Thx
krazatchu

[Rice]

I think your short on responses because scene optimization is just one of those topics that covers such a wide range of variables including models, textures, lighting, render passes, render settings, as well as what kind of hardware your using. Experience is by far your best resource when dealing with optimization issues. If you have a friend or work buddy nearby that are experienced in what your dealing with he or she would be by far your best resource.

Here are some very basic tips to follow:

Layout:
1. Block out your still or animation so you know where you need detail and where you don't. EX: for an aniimation if the camera is whipping by something and it's going to be completely motion blurred you don't need as much model detail in that situation, just texture detail.

Modeling:
1. Be smart with your polys - model your higher details closer to the camera use texture detail for things further away from camera that are secondary focus.
2. Collapse all models down to editable mesh when finalized.
3. Use smoothing groups properly! You can get away with a lot just by using proper smoothing groups and not meshsmoothing everything. (3dmax reference)
4. Organize your models on a layer system... nice for working in your viewports and rendering in passes using a render element system.

Texturing:
1. Texture sizes - very important for memory management. Your texture sizes should conicide with your output resolution. EX: if your output size is 720x486 you don't need HD resolution maps.
2. Collapse down your materials, reuse materials if possible.
3. Using basic Procedurals in place of texture maps can sometimes help furthur optimize your memory.
4. Name and organize your materials so you can see if your accidentally duplicating any type of materials or textures.


Lighting:
1. Limit high shadow map sizes to key lights.
2. Custom Dome lights can replace Skylight systems in most cases and are much faster.
3. Learn how to light with the basic default lights... always faster than calculating GI bounces.

Rendering in Passes:
1. Break your scene out into passes. Ex: For an environment if you have a FG building that is your main focus and a bunch of secondary BG buildings break them out into two passes. You can even take this a step furthur by breaking out all your REFLECTIONS in your main building and compositing them back into the shot for more control. Render passes are almost limitless, it's a matter of how much control you need.
2.Light passes can help add control and stability to shots.

Rendering:
1. If your desired output size isn't rendering try starting small and working your way up to larger resolutions. If it won't render at 720x486 it's not going to render at HD.
2. Higher Resolution renders sometimes need to be broken out into quadrants to render and pieced back together... only a few renderers do this for you... you can render region and do it yourself though if need be.
3. Motion Blur - if it's a static shot turn it off... sometimes using vector blur can get you by.


This is just a small taste of what your need to think about during scene optimization. I hope this helps get you on the right path so you can render your scene. The more experience you gain the less you'll have to think about this stuff because it will just come more naturally to you. Good luck!

[krazatchu]

Who needs more than one reply if its as good as what you wrote... thanks a million :)

To fill in a few blanks....

Unfortunately, I'm the only one working on this project... All I've started with was the Autocad 2D files... Otherwise, I have complete freedom all aspects of this project including creative design (not always a good thing, how do you make apartments look like something more than ugly buildings?!!) ... haha.. Aswell my local resources are very limited... I'm not so great at speaking Korean (yet) and most of my co-workers are not so great at speaking english...

Layout:
1.Its primary purpose is still, however there will be a variety of camera angles... so almost everything has to be of high detail...

Modeling:
1. Same as above... more than one camera... multiple shots...
As well he buildings are very close together... I think there would be anoticable transition...
2. Editable mesh... ya.. trial and error taught me allready...
3. dont really understand smoothing groups yet... i'll F1 on that... I never use meshsmooth (it really kills my cpu) besides these buildings are mostly right angles... (yuk)
4. ya.. each of the buildings is on its own layer and furthermore the everything else has been layered into one of three layer groups based on location. (I can only work on 1 building at a time, viewport redraw is otherwise too slow)

Texturing
Havent really gone there yet... other than setting up multi/sub obj. with the default arch materials...
1. there will be two output sizes for printing a4@3600x2400@300dpi and a3@some-ridiculous -size@300dpi (-size@300dpi)
2. Collapse down? hmmm... have to check on that too...
3. have gotten into procedural textures yet but from what i've learned its the way to go for realism and large repetitive areas..
4. ok will do

Lighting
1,2&3... this area scares me... It seems to fully depend on the renderer your using...
I was using the ies sun/skylight system before (with mental ray) but after looking thru some Arch magazines I picked up the other day, I noticed that they seem to be using a variety of light sources and then compositing later... there shadows didnt match from trees to buildings to people etc (also noticed an angular variation in shadows from one side to the other, guess there did not use a parallel ray light source)...

I'll give ur suggestions a try after i read up some more on this, then once i get a render done maybe ill put it up in the WIP section and fish for ideas on lighting / C&C...

Rendering in passes.
1. this is what i was planning on since i started this revised project... the entire scene is split into three pieces... however i have noticed after some testing that the missing areas have an effect on the neighboring areas (missing shadows, color differences etc) ... like i said the buildings are very close together...

After some more experimenting today, i found that the virtual viewport might solve my problems... from one camera view, i can split and render it in multiple parts.. it seems to require less system resources this way and the neighboring buildings which have there layers turned on but are outside of the viewport still cast shadows etc... (needs more testing still)

2. As for light passes and rendering the relections seperately, this sounds great, I'll have to figure how to do this with Mental ray or whatever renderer i use... (prolly mental ray)

Rendering
1. ok, good plan...
2. ya... i think this is what i was talking about just above... ill have to check what renderers can do this automatically... Anyone know which ones do this?
3. ya its off, never was on... I think i can accomplish some realism in photoshop by using a semitransparent blurred background duplicate of the image... read about that somewhere .. havent tried it yet.. is that what u are talking about?

Well.. . thanks agian for reply, you have deffinetly give me some direction and calmed a few of my worries about certain things i thought i might be doing wrong...

cheers... works over for the day and it seems im supposed to go drink with the boss tonight... he's lucky he doesnt have to get up early in the AM....

Thanks again,
krazatchu

[krazatchu]

Hi again...

Well... It seems that I was finally able to render this project... (in 12 pieces)
I used photoshop to roughly compose the image back together...

I havent added any lighting to this yet, nor are the textures finalized...
As well, the camera angle will be raised a bit to give more of an overhead shot...
There will also be at least one moer camera shot from the ground up...

The entire scene has ~2.4 million faces, it was at 3.8 million until yesterday when i optomized...

I plan on posting this in the WIP section as well... to get C&C...
By the way.. this is my first project in Viz2005... never did 3D or even 2D until less than 2 months ago... well, except for autocad....

krazatchu

http://www.hotdog.pe.kr/WIP1.jpg
http://www.hotdog.pe.kr/WIP1.jpg

[krazatchu]

Heres a close up I did this morning...

The background is from byrce, the rest is viz 2k5...

I was aiming for the romantic sunset atmosphere... not quite there yet...

This was done with Mental ray, 1 target spot set to shadow map and some random experimenting with the MR settings http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/images/smilies/smile.gif...

Im considering re modeling to reduce the poly count for the far away shots... perhaps I'll do that on monday as Ill be in Japan this weekend...

Thanks...
krazatchu
http://www.hotdog.pe.kr/wip2.jpg

[krazatchu]

hey all...

here's the latest render ... the scene has been heavily simplified ~850,000 polys...

Im working on the lights today... I'll post another with the proper lighting later...

This render was made with the default scanline... I actuallty was able to render the entire scene in one pass... woo hoo~~

thx...
krazatchu

http://www.hotdog.pe.kr/wip3.jpg

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