Sony CE CTO reveals new PSP details, reassures on release dates

[Recursive]

"Let me tell you something," he yelled, characteristically. "Those little women at the Tokyo Game Show with those portable consoles strapped to them... What you didn't see is that those women were having to go recharge the batteries every two hours!"


That guy is my hero.

[Snej]

:shrug: This is going to be a tough choice between getting a DS or holding out for a PSP that might only be playable for 2 hours.

[Damm]

I'm definately getting the DS, whitout any hesitation.

[(...)]

"Let me tell you something," he yelled, characteristically. "Those little women at the Tokyo Game Show with those portable consoles strapped to them... What you didn't see is that those women were having to go recharge the batteries every two hours!"

Sure the DS will have a longer battery life. But which is better? A hand-held PS2, or a GBA with two screens?

[Recursive]

Sure the DS will have a longer battery life. But which is better? A hand-held PS2, or a GBA with two screens?
A gba with 2 screens, offcourse. :)

its all about the games....

[MisterE]

A gba with 2 screens, offcourse. :)

its all about the games....
ROFL! I love Nintendo's slogan: "It's all about the games." WHAT games?! :rolleyes: I see a bunch of rehashes rather than ORIGINAL titles to take advantage of the Dual Screen "technology." Oops, I mean "Gimmick." :thumbsup:

PSP, on the other hand, has the ability to NOT ONLY play games but play movies and MP3's as well. Whereas the DS has only but ONE game I see so far to really take advantage of the gimmick played here, http://www.the-magicbox.com/0410/game041008g.shtml (not to mention the fact that it's a Japan-only game), the PSP appeals to a wider audience in its abilities to watch movies AND listen to music. Because of this appeal, Sony can market this thing to be as popular - if not more so than - the iPod, for example. So while you may be able to flame me for saying there are certainly remakes, or re-visited titles to the PSP, you cannot deny which of the two machines can do more and do it better. Not to mention, however, the strong 3rd party exclusives such as MGS, GTA, Tenchu, Devil May Cry, Gran Turismo, etc.

I don't mean to start a flame war here, but your statement "It's all about the games" really is inaccurate, considering GameCube's (and N64's) decline in software titles made and, more importantly, sold - especially in comparison w/ Sony's lineup.

[Game-boi]

Sure the DS will have a longer battery life. But which is better? A hand-held PS2, or a GBA with two screens?

Someone hasn't had the chance to play Advance Wars yet...

While the PSP looks like it will crank out more polys, the DS certainly isn't "a GBA with two screens". If get a hand-held PS2 means paying $250-299 (no games included), you can keep it. I'll take fewer polys and more original games games for $150.

The point Reggie Fils-Aime makes about Sony avoiding Battery Life talk is VERY valid. I think that this is one of the areas that Nintendo's handhelds have always succeeded. Just look at some of the competitors and how their battery life compared with Nintendo's Game and Watch and Gameboy lines (Game Gear, Lynx, etc.).

Other things that Sony isn't really talking about (but should) are a price and when it comes out. Price is one of the biggest factors of a console launch. If they are going to be shipping in 2004, shouldn't we see a price by now? If Sony is claiming that all these rumors are lies, why not say, "Hey, the PSP will be out on...." It's October! Isn't it about time they give us a release date if it's coming out this year?

I'm glad that Nintendo is being active in using all of this to their advantage. Vocal jabs at press events here and there at the competition can be a good thing.:) I think the DS is already making good first impressions, and is well on it's way to a good launch next month. Sony needs to catch up and show us why the PSP will rock. First, a release date, then battery specs. And finally, they need to be showing off the games that I'll be dying to play, and not showing off features that I don't really need in a handheld.

-Chris

[Recursive]

ROFL! I love Nintendo's slogan: "It's all about the games." WHAT games?! :rolleyes: I see a bunch of rehashes rather than ORIGINAL titles to take advantage of the Dual Screen "technology." Oops, I mean "Gimmick." :thumbsup:

PSP, on the other hand, has the ability to NOT ONLY play games but play movies and MP3's as well. Whereas the DS has only but ONE game I see so far to really take advantage of the gimmick played here, http://www.the-magicbox.com/0410/game041008g.shtml (not to mention the fact that it's a Japan-only game), the PSP appeals to a wider audience in its abilities to watch movies AND listen to music. Because of this appeal, Sony can market this thing to be as popular - if not more so than - the iPod, for example. So while you may be able to flame me for saying there are certainly remakes, or re-visited titles to the PSP, you cannot deny which of the two machines can do more and do it better. Not to mention, however, the strong 3rd party exclusives such as MGS, GTA, Tenchu, Devil May Cry, Gran Turismo, etc.

I don't mean to start a flame war here, but your statement "It's all about the games" really is inaccurate, considering GameCube's (and N64's) decline in software titles made and, more importantly, sold - especially in comparison w/ Sony's lineup. So if I understand you correctly you are saying that no games are using the gimmics built into the ds? Or are you complaining that nintendo are using mario again? Anyways, as with the gba sp you will see alot of rehashes of super nintendo and nintendo 64 games. Its not profitable to develop an AAA console like game for a portable system due to the lower price of the games and the fact that portable systems dont sell as much software as console systems. I think you will find the same amount if not more of old ps1 & ps2 game rehashes for the psp.

Though, saying that you dont see any new games is innacurate. (not for the us launch list though, look at the games in development). Compare it to the ps2 launch list, how good was that one? or the gba, did it have anything valuable on launch?

Lets do a list of the gimmics:
dual screen: All games use this. The most innovative one imo is Yoshi's touch and go( baby mario falls down on the top screen and you havto draw clouds on the bottom screen so that he wont fall too fast ).

Stereo sound: Well... most, if not all of them.

Microphone: Nintendogs, a tamagotchi type of game where you can name your dogs, and talk to them via the microphone.

Touch screen: The doctor game you mentioned looked nice, I hope it gets over here to Europe, other then that one you have metroid, there you can use the touch screen with a plastic device you attach to your thumb, this enables you to use the ds much in the same way you would a pc mouse, this is very innovative for handheld fps gaming(no one has as of yet pulled off a handheld fps). Also alot of games will have a keyboard input system via the touch screen, such as animal crossing. Its allways a pain to type with a controller.

Wireless network: Mario 64 DS. You can play multiplayer with 3 of your frinds, without any wires, wires were allways the biggest problem for me when playing multiplayer sp, no one ever has a multiplayer wire when you need it.

These are just a few examples, the gimmics are used.

The statement that I made "its all about the games" might not seam right to you. it does however for me, its a matter of perspective, what kind of games you want.

For me its never about how many games comes out on a system. However the type of games that comes out on the ps2 just gets a "I dont want this" from me. This also crosses over to the psp. I dont care about racing games or metal gear card based games. they just seam out of place on a handheld.

Also, the mp3 playing ability of the psp is cool, but you havto buy a memory card for that, why not just buy an mp3 player? The movie playback, are you going to use that? I wouldnt want to rebuy the movies I wanted to see just because the psp doesnt support dvd.

[kex]

its dosnt matter what adult opinions are its the kids that will make or break the handheld games market

[MisterE]

Gameboi you certainly make a lot of valid points - all of which I agree on - that Sony definitely needs to address. In terms of the under-18 market, or specifically teens who rely on their parents to buy them games, yes, Sony will suffer. For one thing, they have yet to release even a solid release date, much less price, which indeed is one of the most important aspects in purchasing a gaming machine. Parents may not want to spend $200-300 on a handheld entertainment system.

But the majority of those who play games now-a-days, the 18+ group, will not suffer (at least not as much). Gamespot ran a poll on which handheld system they'd prefer, a DS or PSP, and even WITHOUT having a pricetag att'd to the PSP, it was very, VERY close (I'm not sure who wound up winning it, though).

Green86: First let me start off by saying I am an ex-Nintendo fan and now a fan of whatever games appeal to me, be it on the PS2, GC, or even XBox. It just so happens the games Sony aims for (by securing exclusive content like GTA, GT, Twisted Metal, MGS, etc) are more appealing to me than, say for example, another Super Mario Bros. 1, 2, 3, and now Mario 64-redux. Don't get me wrong, in the past, when I was a kid growing up on Mario those games rocked, but unfortunately, Mario - nor Nintendo - has grown up w/ the times in terms of gaming and technology. I appreciate Nintendo's interest in trying to create FRESH, original ideas, but to me the dual screen empowered in the new handheld feels more like a gimmick to get buyers to buy yet ANOTHER GameBoy system, rather than focusing on a TRUE successor to the GameBoy.

Microphone: Done earlier in the Dreamcast game, Seaman.
Wireless capabilities: Can be done on PSP.
MP3 capabilities: What, you have to buy the memory sticks? Big deal. Flash memory cards/sticks are dirt cheap now. You can buy a ONE GIG stick for less than $100.
Movie capabilities: While you are correct in that you would have to buy your favorite movie all over again, I'm sure the cost would be significantly cheaper than a full blown out DVD. Not to mention the PSP is portable: the fact that it also acts as a handheld GAMING machine and MP3 player, it is now a portable "DVD" (er, UMD) player. I also wouldn't be surprised if in the future you could transfer video from a DVD or your computer into the PSP. But that part is purely speculation.

So bottom line: Nintendo DS, more for the diehard Nintendo/gameboy fans; PSP = more for the diehard tech-savy person.

[vrf]

So bottom line: Nintendo DS, more for the diehard Nintendo/gameboy fans; PSP = more for the diehard tech-savy person...


...who likes to hang out around power outlets.

Also, there's not a chance in the world the movie-watching side of the PSP is going take off. UMD movies are going to be a complete failure, unless they sell them for like ten dollars apiece. Knowing Sony, that's not going to happen.

[danydrunk]

Gameboi you certainly make a lot of valid points - all of which I agree on - that Sony definitely needs to address. In terms of the under-18 market, or specifically teens who rely on their parents to buy them games, yes, Sony will suffer. For one thing, they have yet to release even a solid release date, much less price, which indeed is one of the most important aspects in purchasing a gaming machine. Parents may not want to spend $200-300 on a handheld entertainment system.

But the majority of those who play games now-a-days, the 18+ group, will not suffer (at least not as much). Gamespot ran a poll on which handheld system they'd prefer, a DS or PSP, and even WITHOUT having a pricetag att'd to the PSP, it was very, VERY close (I'm not sure who wound up winning it, though).

Green86: First let me start off by saying I am an ex-Nintendo fan and now a fan of whatever games appeal to me, be it on the PS2, GC, or even XBox. It just so happens the games Sony aims for (by securing exclusive content like GTA, GT, Twisted Metal, MGS, etc) are more appealing to me than, say for example, another Super Mario Bros. 1, 2, 3, and now Mario 64-redux. Don't get me wrong, in the past, when I was a kid growing up on Mario those games rocked, but unfortunately, Mario - nor Nintendo - has grown up w/ the times in terms of gaming and technology. I appreciate Nintendo's interest in trying to create FRESH, original ideas, but to me the dual screen empowered in the new handheld feels more like a gimmick to get buyers to buy yet ANOTHER GameBoy system, rather than focusing on a TRUE successor to the GameBoy.

Microphone: Done earlier in the Dreamcast game, Seaman.
Wireless capabilities: Can be done on PSP.
MP3 capabilities: What, you have to buy the memory sticks? Big deal. Flash memory cards/sticks are dirt cheap now. You can buy a ONE GIG stick for less than $100.
Movie capabilities: While you are correct in that you would have to buy your favorite movie all over again, I'm sure the cost would be significantly cheaper than a full blown out DVD. Not to mention the PSP is portable: the fact that it also acts as a handheld GAMING machine and MP3 player, it is now a portable "DVD" (er, UMD) player. I also wouldn't be surprised if in the future you could transfer video from a DVD or your computer into the PSP. But that part is purely speculation.

So bottom line: Nintendo DS, more for the diehard Nintendo/gameboy fans; PSP = more for the diehard tech-savy person.


Hey, nothing personal but, I think although you tried to be objective, you didnt mention a lot of the stuff about the nintendo ds. Honestly at the beggining I had my doubts about the nintendos ds, but after all the information was clarified, and the games where shown, I have no doubt that this is going to indeed change in a better way games. There is no gimick in the ds, is pure gameplay oportunities. Have you checked the new videos? have you seen the most recent game reel? I dont think that anybody who honestly like games, wont say that is cool, it looks refreshing after 20 + years holding a controller , dont you think so? its the first real different change in gameplay, and I like it. And although it is true what you said that microphone isnt new, it is the first time it is going to be fully supported as it comes integrated with the hardware.

And just as a personal opinion, I dont think nintendo hasnt grown up, They do what they like to do, thats why they are where they are, for good of bad !! thats what they have always done.

I invite you to check the video in this website, since its in japanese, go to the to right link with the yellow fonts, the video will start streaming, I think that at the least youll agree that there is something new going on here. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/index.html

[heavyness]

MP3 capabilities: What, you have to buy the memory sticks? Big deal. Flash memory cards/sticks are dirt cheap now. You can buy a ONE GIG stick for less than $100.

Sony memory stick 1 gig, not under $100 (http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=i%20gig%20sony%20memory%20stick&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&sa=N&tab=wf)


Movie capabilities: While you are correct in that you would have to buy your favorite movie all over again, I'm sure the cost would be significantly cheaper than a full blown out DVD.
...like all those great Sony minidisc albums i can buy?


the fact that it also acts as a handheld GAMING machine and MP3 player, it is now a portable "DVD" (er, UMD) player.
...last time i checked, hybrid game consoles don't seel to great [Sony PSX, Nokia N-Gage]

[Game-boi]

Good points Kole!

As far as an mp3 player, for the amount of money spent on a 1 gig Sony memory stick, you might as well buy yourself a brand new iPod (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?family=iPod). Since, I (and a lot of tech-savy people) already have an mp3 player to some degree (second gen. 20 gig iPod here), what's the point of this other than making the PSP more expensive than it needs to be? I'm happy that Sony isn't playing mp3s off of a UMD (it would kill battery life), but I'm not seeing a huge benefit to this. It's a cute add-on, but the realities of buying Sony Memory sticks and (again) the PSP's mysterious battery life doesn't exactly sound too good right now. I also believe game saves go on Memory sticks as well. This doesn't sound like a lot of fun either.

I for one, do plan on getting a PSP at some point, but I doubt that I will ever buy movies for it. I just don't see the point. Even if they sell movies at $10 a pop, I would still want the $15 DVD instead. In order to make it work from a consumer point of view, they'll have to go really, REALLY low.

Another thing that I have yet to see anyone mention is that Sony isn't exactly known as the greatest of console hardware makers. How many people got 1st gen PS1's and PS2's and had them die only a few months afterwards? This is the main reason that I'm skipping launch.

As far as the DS's touch screen/microphone being a gimmic, I beg to differ. This feature is being implemented in ways that I think will really add something new to games. This is a very unique form of interaction that we haven't seen before (especially in handheld). I think that this will become very clear to people who doubt the DS as soon as they play it.

As for Nintendo not growing up, I can understand the comments, but it's not entirely true and it's not something that bothers me. I think with the Gamecube we've seen Nintendo make a transition from old tactics (rubbing third parties the wrong way, emphasis on first party titles only, etc.) to a newer Nintendo. More "mature" titles are on the system than the n64 (Resident Evil, Eternal Darkness, Met. Prime, etc.). New series of first and third party games are doing well (Pikmin, Warioware, Viewtiful Joe, Super Monkey Ball, etc.). And Nintendo is finally playing well with others (Sega, Capcom, Square-Enix, etc.). I see most of these things continuing with the DS and the next Nintendo console.

At the same time, parts of Nintendo hasn't grown up. But why should they? It makes them fat stacks of cash! A quick look at the US sales of the newest Pokemon release should give you an idea why Nintendo does what they do. Because they can and because people will buy it. I see Sony and Microsoft wanting the same audience: 18-24 heterosexual males. Nintedo, IMO, makes games for everyone, "mature" or not. I'm glad Sony and MS make their "mature" games for these guys, but you know what? Fast cars, big explosions, endless gore, and beating hookers gets just as old, just as fast as any Mario remake. IMO, I'll take beautiful game design over "mature" content any day of the week. "Kiddie" games have a part of Nintendo's library from day one. And more importantly, they have always made them money. So why stop now? Can you really blame Nintendo for doing what they've been doing for years? Would you rather them just try to go after third-parties that Sony already has, make "Me too!" imitation first-party games, and still not see a profit?

-Chris

[MisterE]

Sony memory stick 1 gig, not under $100 (http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=i%20gig%20sony%20memory%20stick&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&sa=N&tab=wf)


...like all those great Sony minidisc albums i can buy?

...last time i checked, hybrid game consoles don't seel to great [Sony PSX, Nokia N-Gage]Sigh..:sad: Am I the only one who likes and appreciates what Sony is doing w/ the PSP? I feel as if I'm the only one trying to defend it here.

1. As far as the memory stick goes, no where did I say "Sony memory stick 1 gig." If you check out the Circuit City ad this week (or it may have been Comp-USA), you can pick up 1 gig flash memory stick for under $100 after a rebate. THIS is what I was referring to - flash memory in general - NOT the Sony memory stick.

2. Granted we don't know what the cost will be for these UMD movies, if at all Sony will even invite Hollywood to convert some movies into this format. But IMO, I welcome the idea of being able to watch movies wherever I go on a portable gaming machine - as opposed to holding those big clunky so-called "portable DVD players." It's also hard to blame Sony for lack of how much juice you can get out of the battery life simply because Sony hasn't stated how much life it will have! Until there is concrete info out there - including on cost of UMD movies - I wish people would stop complaining that it'll only be able to be active for a few minutes or whatever the critics are saying.

3. You consider the PSP a hybrid gaming machine? Since when has Sony called this a hybrid gaming machine (like the PSX you mention...though I don't know why you did)? This is a portable PlayStation. The title PSP clearly means "PlayStation Portable." I clearly see this like when the PS2 came out: It will play games but it also has amazing bonus features. Whereas the PSX - as you oddly mention - is a horrid attempt at combining a PS2, hard drive, and DVD-writer - technology already pre-existing in other forms. The PSP, on the other hand and much like the PS2, will only play games designed for that specific system but also has other abilities like playing movies and music.

Another thing that I have yet to see anyone mention is that Sony isn't exactly known as the greatest of console hardware makers. How many people got 1st gen PS1's and PS2's and had them die only a few months afterwards? This is the main reason that I'm skipping launch. 4. I've had my PS1 for AGES w/o trouble. I've had my PS2 since launch day as well w/o trouble. I haven't heard or read about people w/ troubled PS2's. Those who do have trouble are probably the idiot types who don't know how to take care of their DVD disks, much less their consoles. :rolleyes:

5. In regards to danny and game-boi's case about the touch screen, I did take a NEW look at the link provided. While it does look impressive, the majority of these games will never make it across shores from Japan to America. And by the time most other game developers really take advantage of the screen it may be too late for most people to care. Again, don't get me wrong here, I love fresh ideas and games, but implementing the touch screen w/ a game that will last more than 5-seconds of "oh, cool" is hard to do.

6. I won't get into detail about Nintendo's so-called venture into Mature titles. I would, however, like to state again that I am trying to be objective in regards to BOTH the DS & PSP, but at the same time I'm simply more excited about the GAMES and ENTERTAINMENT/tech-features of the PSP. I would love to see some fresh and awesome games for the DS but, unfortunately, I'm seeing nothing appealing to me at ALL. The games for the PSP, on the other hand, just call out to me more, like Twisted Metal, the Metal Gear Acid game (which, speaking of being innovative, this looks to take a nice, interesting departure from the most recent MG games), Ape Escape, GT, GTA, etc. For the DS, I have YET to find a game that really impresses me in terms of gameplay and/or story. It doesn't hurt that, visually, the games look a helluva' lot better on the PSP than the pixelated mess of the DS, as well.

This would bring up another interesting topic: even though the DS can handle 3D (if I'm not mistaken) it is pimarily designed for 2D games. The same can be said about the Sega Saturn. And look how that turned out :)

[rootdown]

I was really skeptical of the DS for the same reasons brought up earlier in this thread; my assumption was that it was another GBA, this time with two screens. I was really annoyed with the SP for being a redundant console that nintendo had said was targeted for an 'older audience,' and now the SP is for younger audiences and the DS is for an 'older audience.' It causes me to wonder if their primary metric for distinguishing between target audiences is how much a thing costs, < $100 being younger and < $100 being older.

In any case, the inclusion of wireless multiplayer is a really nice touch and I am going to be really interested in seeing if and how nintendo integrates that into their post-gamecube console, or if they even go ahead and release a wireless reciever for the cube. Not likely, but it would be pretty neat. the handheld-as-controller feature was hyped up an awful lot on the cube's release but they didn't really make as much use of it as I was hoping for.

but what has sold me on the DS are the games they've got lined up: mr. driller, metroid prime hunters, final fantasy III, and the one where you draw pictures and zap them to friends looks neat, too. add to that the backwards compatibility and you've got yourself a winner.

so far the only game I know of that is slated for release on the PSP is Death, JR, which looks like your basic kiddie platformer. which, yawn.

in the psp's defense, though, if sony really pushes the multimedia use of the UMD's, they could work the psp into a PDA that does primarily games. if there was a UMD-writer released for the pc you could theoretically do stuff like rip your own movies or shows or whatever to your psp, or make custom collections of games or what have you.

[danydrunk]

I guess well see, they will be released soon. But for the first time I think nintendo is doing things better than sony, in terms of decisions.

The most important thing that is making me go with the ds, is that as a person who plans to make games sometime in the future(hopefully) for me there are more things that makes me excited about the ds, than the psp. Theres simply more possibilities and I see developers in general being more excited about the nintendo ds than the psp. but again, they will soon be launched, so we should just wait and see.

[heavyness]

rockymaru, i was behind the PSP when first announced. but after of a series of events and dissapointments, i'm in the "wait and see" mode.

[MisterE]

so far the only game I know of that is slated for release on the PSP is Death, JR, which looks like your basic kiddie platformer. which, yawn.
Yeah that was PSP's first officially announced game, which is unfortunate because I agree that it looks like, as you adequately put, "your basic kiddie platformer." Now, I haven't been following other games for the PSP besides what I have already mentioned (TM, GT, GTA, Ape Escape, MGS, and now I understand..possibly a Tenchu game, etc etc), but I do know at recently announced more titles recently at the TGS and other games (like the newly announced NFSU) were featured on Gamespot recently. So if some of you aren't sold on the PSP, I recommend a visit and/or PSP.ign (I know it's IGN, but still :P ).

And again, to be objective, I did check out more about the DS from Magic-Box and GameSpot. I found Ridge Racer DS, which will allow you to control the vehicle from the bottom-most screen, as it will dispaly the steering wheel and the user will be able to move/rotate the wheel accordingly, which sounds really cool. But speaking about GameSpot, their new poll features a list of games which users are most excited about. Out of listed 9, for my personal preference, not one stands out for me to purchase. Ridge Racer DS could be cool just BECAUSE of that "nifty" feature; FFIII is another remake, and I'm not as big a fan of Metroid as others are so crazy about it.

At this point to sum up, as green86 first pointed out (and made me eager enough to comment in this thread), "it's all about the games." For me, the DS features games that don't interest me at all, while the PSP features games that do appeal to me w/ combined features of an MP3 and portable movie player. It's just a matter of what type of games one is looking for. For me, I'll be getting a PSP when it comes out and when the DS comes out, I will read up on how well it does and get friends' opinions. Also, Game-boi mentioned he already has an MP3 player. Not everyone, myself included, already own one. To be able to listen to MP3's on the PSP makes it that much more appealing to a larger audience: because not only will it play your favorite games, but you'll also be able to listen to your favorite music. :)

[NanoGator]

Sure the DS will have a longer battery life. But which is better? A hand-held PS2, or a GBA with two screens?

I'd say the handheld that has a more interesting interface.

[NanoGator]

Rockymaru:

Hey man, I know how you feel. Been there. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but please consider that Sony hasn't shown as many "oo neatos!" as Nintendo has. Worse, they've introduced a couple of sour notes. It's not the you're the only one that appreciates what Sony's doing, but rather I think a lot of people are thinking "uh... I can't realistically buy this thing." Sony has some final questions to answer, like price and battery life. They also need to show some games coming its way. (err maybe they have, but I keep missing it.) Perhaps things will turn around closer to launch when Sony finally gets their heat on?

I'll address some of your points here:

2.) I think the design specs for the PSP will include the ability to watch a full movie on a single charge. Anybody who's saying otherwise isn't making a lot of sense. Sony wouldn't let that thing out the door if it didn't do that.

However, I don't think the movie feature on this little guy will be very popular. A.) It doesn't play a common format, B.) It's difficult to imagine that a lot of interesting movies will make it there. Point A, though not a death blow, is enough to make just about anybody toss the idea of using it as a movie machine at least until the machine is launched. Nobody likes buying a movie twice. Point B is rather fuzzy as we have no info here. Sony will either really surprise us, or really let us down. Unfortunately, history is not on Sony's side. (CD-I anyone?) If there are only a handful of titles out, it just won't be a huge feature.


3.) I think his 'hybrid' comment comes from the potential price of this unit. Regardless of if it plays games well or not, (I don't think that even the most hardcore Nintendo fan like myself would kid themselves about that. The PSP will play games beautifully.) Sony definitely made design choices that accomdate a broader scope. As a result, we have a more expensive machine with shorter battery life. Maybe 'hybrid system' isn't the appropriate term. Don't worry, I understand that. But do understand some of the frustration here. Nintendo made a gaming only machine, it's cheap, it lasts on batteries, and it has cool stuff coming for it. Nintendo's the only company to have any serious market presence in the portable arena. It's no surprise why.

4.) Both the PS and PS2 are fragile machines. I used to sell the PS's when they first came out. For every 4 we sold, 1 would come back defective. This was not due to customer idiocy, it was design idiocy. I kid you not, man, LOTS of people have had defective PS1 and 2's, though warranty rarely covered it. This isn't some mass hallucination.

5.) I find this comment baffling. Stylus programming (as well as mouse...) has been around for years. This isn't some difficult new technology to wrap one's mind around. Interesting uses for it will materialize, if nothing better, than to improve the UI. The PSP simply does not have this in any form. I wouldn't be so dismissive of the stylus interface. It sure made Palm a lot of money.

6.) In all fairness, games are going to be the deciding factor as to whether you will like the system or not. If the PSP has games you want and the DS doesn't, then nothing I say matters. Seriously. You're buying an entertainment machine. :)

7.) Wrongity wrongity wrong. The DS is a 3D machine. The PSP likely has better 3D features, no arguing that, but to say that the DS is primarily a 2D machine is just plain wrong.

G'day

[danydrunk]

Hey nanogator you made interesting points. I think there isnt a better way to describe whats happening to sony, they decide to put the best graphics they could to the psp, and now, they are suffering for the price, the battery life, the durability of the machine and cds. So it was like a tricky decision which now is giving them a headache.

Again, lets see what happens.

[vrf]

1. As far as the memory stick goes, no where did I say "Sony memory stick 1 gig." If you check out the Circuit City ad this week (or it may have been Comp-USA), you can pick up 1 gig flash memory stick for under $100 after a rebate. THIS is what I was referring to - flash memory in general - NOT the Sony memory stick.
Really...?

MP3 capabilities: What, you have to buy the memory sticks? Big deal. Flash memory cards/sticks are dirt cheap now. You can buy a ONE GIG stick for less than $100. As the Sony memory stick is the only one relevant to this discussion, I'm sure you can forgive those who understood your statement about "one gig sticks" to mean the Sony one.


2. Granted we don't know what the cost will be for these UMD movies, if at all Sony will even invite Hollywood to convert some movies into this format. But IMO, I welcome the idea of being able to watch movies wherever I go on a portable gaming machine - as opposed to holding those big clunky so-called "portable DVD players." It's also hard to blame Sony for lack of how much juice you can get out of the battery life simply because Sony hasn't stated how much life it will have! Until there is concrete info out there - including on cost of UMD movies - I wish people would stop complaining that it'll only be able to be active for a few minutes or whatever the critics are saying.
Well, if the rest of us can see the writing on the wall, and you are the Sony optimist, fine. In principle, I like optimism. Just don't be too surprised when Sony officially admits what many have suspected was coming: crummy battery life and overpriced UMD movies (that no one will buy.)



4. I've had my PS1 for AGES w/o trouble. I've had my PS2 since launch day as well w/o trouble. I haven't heard or read about people w/ troubled PS2's. Those who do have trouble are probably the idiot types who don't know how to take care of their DVD disks, much less their consoles. :rolleyes:
Well, you haven't been doing your homework. Sony's terrible QC on the Playstation line is legendary.

[kujo79]

hey anyone got a clue what kind of power is needed to power up two screen? i might be wrong but both might not be every efficient. I'm gonna wait for the xbox portable to come out ;)

[NanoGator]

hey anyone got a clue what kind of power is needed to power up two screen? i might be wrong but both might not be every efficient. I'm gonna wait for the xbox portable to come out ;)

The DS is supopsed to have similar battery life to the SP. I'm a little skeptical of that, but I'm sure it'll be more than enough. It's so rare I needta charge my sp hehe.

[Game-boi]

4. I've had my PS1 for AGES w/o trouble. I've had my PS2 since launch day as well w/o trouble. I haven't heard or read about people w/ troubled PS2's. Those who do have trouble are probably the idiot types who don't know how to take care of their DVD disks, much less their consoles. :rolleyes:

A quick search on GameFAQs.com found these articles pertaining the PSone glitches...
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/psx_fmv_skip.txt
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/sony_playstation_fmv.txt

These issues were mainly due to the type of CD Drive was used in whatever generation of the PSone in question. But there were also big deals with ventilation (fixes meant placing the console upside down, on it's side, etc.). Granted, nothing as bad as the "My Xbox burned a ring into my CD" problems, but still not good sign.

These articles talk about the infamous "Disk Read Error" of the PS2...
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/ps2_disc_read_error.txt
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/ps2_disc_read_error_a.txt
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/playstation2_sony_repair.txt

This type of stuff is really inexcusable, since there were systems that were DOA, as well as ones that slowly died on users. At least Sony was nice and replaced a good many of the systems for free (I'm unsure if they still offer this).

Point being, Sony's rep as a hardware manufacturer is nowhere near a good as it should be. And once they start moving smaller and smaller, the more I worry.

...another interesting topic: even though the DS can handle 3D (if I'm not mistaken) it is pimarily designed for 2D games. The same can be said about the Sega Saturn. And look how that turned out :)

I believe the DS was designed with both in mind. Nintendo must have learned from the n64: Do not mechanically lean to 2d OR 3d. The n64 was designed with 3d in mind, with little attention to 2d. As a result, it saw few 2d games.

Don't get me wrong... I appreciate what Sony is trying to do. The PSX was something that brought in a new audience to video games in the mid-90's. I would think the PSP is trying to do that with handhelds. But with the recent turn of events, I don't think Sony is doing what they should be doing to successfully launch it. I also want Nintendo to be given some serious competition handheld-wise. Since the PSP's announcement, Nintendo's been more active and a little quicker about talking on the DS than any previous system. Besides, who doesn't like to see huge companies pitted against each other?

When both the DS and PSP were announced, I was initially more excited to get my hands on a PSP. But since they haven't exactly shown some interesting titles (currently, I'm only interested in Metal Gear Acid and Lumines), haven't shown off new/fun features (mp3 playing doesn't count, and the movies don't thrill me), the 2 to 4 hour battery issue (as seen at the TGS), and have been a little too mysterious about price and shipping date, it's a little hard to maintain enthusiasm. This is even more important as now they are very intent with shipping in 2004, leaving little time to fix some pretty important things.

I wish Sony and Nintendo the best of luck. If both succeed and fly off the shelves, it just means more jobs for everyone out there right? :)

-Chris

[Skoal_Mint]

I think the major issue here is the battery life. Any game system could e radically advanced, and have awesome games, buts what's the use if you can only play them for 2 hours? The whole point of portable gaming is to be able to travel and pass time gaming. Kids will be the decisive group, but I'm pretty sure a kid isn't going to want a system he can only play for half his road trip or whatever. Eventually, Sony may release a battery pack or something, but it still won't help the initial sales.

[MisterE]

Ohhh boy, look at all these anti-Sony posts here I have to contend w/. I hope this will be one of my final replies in this thread to tie up any loose ends.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but please consider that Sony hasn't shown as many "oo neatos!" as Nintendo has. This is a biased statement and really is just a matter of opinion. In terms of games, I'm fully satisfied and excited to see what other amazing games they can cram in the PSP. And we already went through great lengths about the features of the PSP and DS. I stand by what I said, in that I am more interested in the games for the PSP but also am impressed w/ the entertainment add-ons (MP3s, movies). So, no one is wrong in this case, it's just a matter of opinion.

2. About the movie feature. I didn't say it would take off and be a SMASHING hit. I merely said it would be cool to watch movies on the PSP. And again, w/ the inclusion of USB2.0, who knows, it may be possible for someone to develop a way to transfer movies onto the unit or to be able to read different formats. In fact, this has already been semi-confirmed.
Kawanishi also mentioned that the PSP will be able to play back video files, in H.264/AVC MP Level3 format. SCE is currently debating whether to release a tool for the PC that allows users to convert videos on their computer to the supported file format, Kawanishi said.
So it IS confirmed you can play other video types (other than UMD) on the PSP. It will be interesting to see if people (like those who programmed code onto the Dreamcast, for example) can, indeed, get DivX to play on the PSP, for example.
3. Again, and this goes to the newbie who just joined, NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE BATTERY LIFE WILL BE! Everyone here is assuming it'll barely last for 2 hours. It very may well be only able to stay on for 2.5 hours or so until it needs a recharge. It's ALSO a possibility that it may very well run for up to 5-6 hours. ANYTHING is possible. But, it has not yet been officially confirmed. Until Sony states otherwise, it's unfair to criticize Sony for failure in being able to run the PSP for less than 2 hours BECAUSE IT SIMPLY HASN'T BEEN ANNOUNCED! Give me a break!

4. What can I say? I really haven't heard these troubling stories about faulty PlayStation units. As I said, my PlayStation's (meaning PS1 & PS2, mind you) have never had a problem, friends never complained about theirs, and I simply wasn't aware of faulty PlayStation units. Now I know! Case closed.

5. Nowhere did I ever say that stylus programming is brand new. Is it brand new to gaming (in the mass-market sense), and specifically to Nintendo? Yes. And this is what I was referring to. I *WAS* going to add that, obviously as you have already pointed out, touch screen capabilities have been around for a while - most recent, the Palm Pilot comes to mind - but I didn't think it necessary to over-elaborate myself. I guess I should have...

6. Again, the PSP features the games I want, but it comes w/ bonus features. I view it as a portable gaming machine w/ cool bonus features, rather than an MP3 player that plays PSP games.

Since the PSP's announcement, Nintendo's been more active and a little quicker about talking on the DS than any previous system. Besides, who doesn't like to see huge companies pitted against each other?I fully agree here as you couldn't be more right. I love to see competition. It's about time Nintendo has some real competition to worry about in the handheld market, seeing as how they've been the only one in the handheld market.

(Begin rant) :thumbsup:
Finally, and back to a previous topic, everyone seems so scared about Sony not announcing things like price and battery life sooner. Their strategy remains similar, and no different, from back w/ the PS1, especially the PS2, and now again w/ the PSP. Sony has always been a quiet company when it came to gaming (they're notorious year after year for sub-par performances at E3, no doubt about that). But look at Sony's history, they let the games (through their machines) do the talking and wind up selling the most software: the PS1 went on to become the most successful gaming machine EVER and the PS2 is 2nd only to its predecessor. Today, Sony remains the dominant console maker of ALL-TIME. Nintendo now has to battle w/ the ever-present, Microsoft, and its XBox machine.

Here's proof from the recent TGS ran by a Japanese magazine, and posted on Magic-Box (http://www.the-magicbox.com/gaming.htm):
Which console systems do you own?
1. PlayStation 2 - 92.8%
2. GameBoy Advance - 56.7%
3. Xbox - 43.7%
4. GameCube - 37.8%

The point of this "rant" is to try and demonstrate that Sony knows what the heck it's doing and has always known in past times. I simply am in awe that there seem to be so many people here that seem anti-Sony, or simply lack confidence in them and don't seem to be giving the PSP a chance on these boards. As I've already stated, I don't care what people think it can and cannot do, as I've already stated I'll be lining up to get a PSP, no doubt about it (well....unless of course it costs over $500 ;-) ). So I'd just like to tie up all loose ends and reiterate that I respect your opinion's on why you people want a DS (for the double screen and games and [COUGH, COUGH]becauseyou'reNintendolovers[COUGH, COUGH!] LOL! :) ), and I want a PSP, instead, due to the games of my taste and have it act as a portable entertainment unit I can carry around.

[NanoGator]

My post was not anti-Sony. Frankly, I resent the implication after all the time I spent trying to make sure my post was not inflammatory.

This is a biased statement and really is just a matter of opinion.

Be dismissive of what I said if you like. It isn't cool, however, to say one's comment is biased in a reply that demonstrates little else.


3. Again, and this goes to the newbie who just joined, NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE BATTERY LIFE WILL BE!

Newbie? Name calling: not cool. As for knowing what the battery life will be, the signs aren't good, and there's little reason not to give them credit.

5. Nowhere did I ever say that stylus programming is brand new. Is it brand new to gaming (in the mass-market sense), and specifically to Nintendo? Yes. And this is what I was referring to. I *WAS* going to add that, obviously as you have already pointed out, touch screen capabilities have been around for a while - most recent, the Palm Pilot comes to mind - but I didn't think it necessary to over-elaborate myself. I guess I should have...

No need to get snippy. Even with the clarification, my point still stands on rather firm ground. Stylus programming is not a difficult chore. Fundamentally, it isn't much different than programming for a mouse or for a Palm Pilot. I know this from experience, not speculation.

"6. Again, the PSP features the games I want, but it comes w/ bonus features. I view it as a portable gaming machine w/ cool bonus features, rather than an MP3 player that plays PSP games."

That is exactly the reason why you should choose one system over another. It is, however, not a reason to cry 'bias!!!' when others provide a rebuttal that just doesn't quite line up with your own values.

But look at Sony's history, they let the games (through their machines) do the talking and wind up selling the most software: the PS1 went on to become the most successful gaming machine EVER and the PS2 is 2nd only to its predecessor.

Question: Do you really think the PS1 would have been successful if it retailed for $600 instead of $300? That's exactly what the PSP is doing. Sega had a portable that played all Genesis games. Despite games superiority over the GameBoy, it didn't even show up on the radar. Too spendy. Sony is in no way immune from the rules. I'm not saying the PSP is a guaranteed failure. But I will say that Sony's history with the PS1 or PS2 has little relevance with what they're doing with the PSP for the simple reason that we're talking about an entirely different market. If anything, Nintendo's history in portable gaming is more relevent, and it says the PSP is in trouble.

I simply am in awe that there seem to be so many people here that seem anti-Sony, or simply lack confidence in them and don't seem to be giving the PSP a chance on these boards.

That isn't the fault of the people on the boards, it is Sony's fault. The sooner you come to grips with this, the less hostility you'll have to deal with. I'll use myself as an example: I will not pay $300 for the PSP. I wouldn't pay that for the DS. Am an anti-Sony, or have they provided a ludicrous price point? I want the batteries to last for more than 3 hours. Am I being unreasonable, or is Sony not fulfilling my demand as a customer? Bear in mind, anybody would be a total idiot if they bought something they weren't happy with. I think the stylus interface will result in more innovative games. Is this because I'm a biased Nintendo Fan Boy who hates Sony with a passion, or is this because Nintendo made a better presentation of their system than Sony has made of theirs? Sorry bud, but saying the PSP doesn't float my boat doesn't mean I'm anti-Sony or Nintendo biased. Implying that isn't going to get you tactful replies.


So I'd just like to tie up all loose ends and reiterate that I respect your opinion's on why you people want a DS

Don't say you respect people's opinions right after claiming they're biased and anti-Sony. Not cool.

[MisterE]

My post was not anti-Sony. Frankly, I resent the implication after all the time I spent trying to make sure my post was not inflammatory.First of all, I apologize if you believed the "anti-Sony" statement was meant for you and you alone. It was aimed at others who appear to be totally opposed to the PSP and Sony in general; while as YOU, on the other hand, clearly seemed to be objective w/ your opening sentence(s). However, I too "resent the implication ... to make sure my post was not inflammatory" as well, that's why I'm aiming towards an agreement: The PSP is for those who want specific games w/ entertainment values/bonus features; while the DS is for another crowd wanting different aspects of games/gaming.

Unfortunately, I couldn't ignore your next sentence, however, seeming to totally contradict your opening statement, when you said, "I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but please consider that Sony hasn't shown as many 'oo neatos!' as Nintendo has. Worse, they've introduced a couple of sour notes." First of all, when someone starts off by saying "I'm not trying to be rude," it's off to a bad start already, because you ARE asking for a backlash from people. Secondly, how can you deny that your statement, "Sony hasn't shown as many 'oh neatos' as Nintendo has" sounds un-opinionated? That doesn't sound biased (PRO-Nintendo) to you or non-opinionated at the least bit???! I would argue, based on that statement, it IS based on opinion because I could and would simply disagree w/ that sentence and retaliate by recommending a look at the PSP's lineup (for the 100th time now: GT, GTA, TM, MGA, NFSU, Ape Escape, Tenchu, Spider-man title, etc, etc). Since I disagree w/ your statement, are you denying then, therefore, your wording isn't opinionated?

Question: Do you really think the PS1 would have been successful if it retailed for $600 instead of $300? That's exactly what the PSP is doing. Sega had a portable that played all Genesis games.Again, again, and again: has Sony OFFICIALLY stated what the price will be? The main problem I'm seeing by those stating they will vehemently avoid the PSP like the plague in favor of a DS, is that they're already making all of these negative assumptions based on very little to go with, other than their own fears. "Oh it'll be too expensive. Oh my god, it's only going to last one hour." Etc, etc. If Sony DID state the battery life and price of the PSP and it was atrocious, THEN I could see these statements as valid. Quite simply, Sony hasn't released anything regarding the aforementioned.

Will I say that NOT releasing this info is beneficial to Sony, however? Absolutely not! See below for more...

That isn't the fault of the people on the boards, it is Sony's fault.No, no, no...in this particular case, you are, indeed, correct and I completely understand that. People are pissed off because, either: a) they assume it will be too expensive and won't last long; and b) will be pissed BECAUSE of the very fact Sony hasn't released any information. But the fact remains people do blame Sony and criticize them already. Some are claiming it WILL be too expensive when, in fact, it isn't true because, as I have said numerous times now, nothing is official. So that part is wrong (blaming Sony for things that are not true), however.

I also agree when you're saying how lame Sony's presentations can be, as I've said in my last post. Fortunately, however, there are many websites dedicated to bringing the consumer the info and media for the product. I think part of this also stems towards Nintendo's "quality over quantity" policy in that they rely too heavily on first-party software titles (i.e. Mario, Zelda) over Sony's policy in obtaining exclusive 3rd-party titles. Not to say there's anything wrong w/ that at all (Mario and Zelda are proven titles!), but I'm saying, Sony relies on those 3rd party to do the talking for THEM instead, while Nintendo does the talking themselves because they are promoting their own titles, and THUS, that is why Sony appears so soft-spoken.

Don't say you respect people's opinions right after claiming they're biased and anti-Sony. Not cool.I already clarified when I said I wasn't saying you were anti-Sony to start off with...though you did start to veer off as soon as you said Sony hasn't shown off as many cool features. That sentence still doesn't sit well w/ me as being un-biased. Also, if I didn't respect your opinion(s), I could simply tell you off and I would never come back to this thread. But here I am still replying. I first replied and am still replying now because I am quite optimistic and look forward to the PSP, while at the same time excited to see Nintendo having competition in the handheld market for the first time (realistically speaking).

[danydrunk]

Hey rockymaru, one of the main reasons It kind of bothers me that people are supporting the psp over the ds is that in most cases they are just "assuming" the psp will be better. I have friends at school who are hardcore gamers, but they havent been following the psp, and ds news, and they are just hyped over the psp, just because its made by sony.
Now, that is a very valid reason, seing how succesfull previous consoles from sony have been, but things change, and its good that they change. I have nothing against sony, but I would rather see sony fail this time than nintendo. Why? because financially it would be worst for nintendo to loose this battle, it will probably mean an eventual banckrupcy for them. They have said something like that before, that the ds is decisive for their future.
And most important, I am seeing a change in Nintendos attitude for the better. You mentioned that sony relies on third party and nintendo in first party, but let me tell you a very interesting fact. Nintendo has gathered the best third party support ever for a console of theirs. They know very well that they wont survive anymore without them. I believe (and maybe I am wrong) that the support for both consoles is similar, and maybe the ds has even more. For the first time in years they have square enix by their side. Square enix have 5 or 6 new sequels for their most popular licenses. They have declared publicly that they still dont understand if sony wants to do a games console, a movie player, or a music player. And for what I know they still havent announced anything for the psp.

If you study both consoles short life from their original announcement to this very day, you will see something very unusual of nintendo and sony. The ds went from being totally criticized and misunderstood, to become a real innovative product that gain millions of fans and developers interest. Nintendo went from saying that the ds will not appeal to everyone, to estimate shipping 4 million ds by the end of march.

On the contrary, the psp, went from being considered the next handheld king, to a product that MIGHT not be affordable, durable and whose battery life could last only 2 hours.
I know this can change in the next months, but as of now, that is the truth. There was a report from ign from the Tokyo game show, where they said that one of the psp's got broken during the event. what does that makes you think about durability? there were reports saying that the ladies carrying the psps had to go recharge the console every two hours. There are analysts saying that the psp might be delayed.

All of this about the psp, although not necesary true at the end, is the psps current situation. People have to take this facts and at least wait and see on whats going to happen at the end for the psp. In the other hand, the Nintendo Ds already has a launch date, launch titles, launch price, it is officially going to be bundled with a wireless instant messenger application and a demo of metroid first hunt. All the final specs have been revealed and the advertising has begun. thats why I consider any psp supporter is not seeing the facts. Until all the key official information has been released about the psp, it is only being optimistic or uninformed to be hyped about it.

The psp, ds and gameboy will fight for the handheld market, at the end, only one will remain. Which one will be the winner?.........I forgot to mention the N gage....jejeje.

[MisterE]

[quote=dannydrunk]It kind of bothers me that people are supporting the psp over the ds is that in most cases they are just "assuming" the psp will be better. I have friends at school who are hardcore gamers, but they havent been following the psp, and ds news, and they are just hyped over the psp, just because its made by sony. "

LOL! This is one of the main reasons I, too, am upset and that is why I am here. The only difference is I feel people are hyped about the DS just because it's made by Nintendo and they have been in love w/ Nintendo since the Duck Hunt/Mario bundle for the NES. I could be wrong, especially from some of the people replying here, about that hunch, but I do know from other people they are simply hyped about the DS b/c it's Nintendo, and vice versa w/ Sony. In my case, however, I have been following both the DS and PSP since rumors started, but have leaned more towards the PSP after learning about the graphic capabilities, the obvious games, etc. So, in short, I am by no means just jumping on the Sony bandwagon again, after simply seeing how stylish looking it is :rolleyes: .

I like the fact that you remain objective here, instead of being biased, saying how bad Nintendo's hurting and that the DS is the key for their survival. Why? Because you are right. After RARE's "GoldenEye" for the N64 (though, IMHO, after beating Banjo & Kazooie :blush: :cool: ), Nintendo has been on a downward spiral ever since, and the stepping down of Hiroshi Yamauchi probably didn't help matters much. So to re-iterate and to be in 100% agreement w/ you: the DS better not be second to Sony's PSP, or Nintendo will, indeed, be in deep trouble. But as you said, "things change, and it's good that they change" - I am hoping Sony will give Nintendo a run for their money - because competition is a good thing ;-) .

[NanoGator]

First of all, I apologize if you believed the "anti-Sony" statement was meant for you and you alone.


Understood. However, the bias statement was in direct reply to something I said. I'm going to clarify a few things here:

- Yes, I am a Nintendo fan. They have bonus points with me.
- No, I am not anti-Sony. Liking the DS doesn't mean I hate the PSP. I could easily buy both and be happy.
- Yes, I have a hard time acknowledging when Nintendo is wrong, that doesn't in any way mean I will rush to say that Sony did.

Seeing the pattern here? See why I don't want to hear claims that I'm biased? Sony doesn't start with a negative score with me.



The PSP is for those who want specific games w/ entertainment values/bonus features; while the DS is for another crowd wanting different aspects of games/gaming.


I don't have a problem with that statement.


Unfortunately, I couldn't ignore your next sentence, however, seeming to totally contradict your opening statement, when you said, "I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but please consider that Sony hasn't shown as many 'oo neatos!' as Nintendo has. Worse, they've introduced a couple of sour notes." First of all, when someone starts off by saying "I'm not trying to be rude," it's off to a bad start already, because you ARE asking for a backlash from people. Secondly, how can you deny that your statement, "Sony hasn't shown as many 'oh neatos' as Nintendo has" sounds un-opinionated? That doesn't sound biased (PRO-Nintendo) to you or non-opinionated at the least bit???!

Read the rest of my statement:


"It's not the you're the only one that appreciates what Sony's doing, but rather I think a lot of people are thinking "uh... I can't realistically buy this thing." Sony has some final questions to answer, like price and battery life. They also need to show some games coming its way. (err maybe they have, but I keep missing it.) Perhaps things will turn around closer to launch when Sony finally gets their heat on?"

a.) I did not say that as a statement of fact. You said you were the only one that likes and appreciates what Sony is doing. I was replying to that statement explaining the point of view coming from the people who aren't big on the PSP right now. I regret not clarifying this when I originally posted it, but I was relaying the point of view I've heard a lot of people expressing. My answer to that question could never have been anything but opinion, so I don't know why you saw it as otherwise.

b.) Sorry, no, I was not asking for a backlash from people. Again, this is all in the context of the question I was trying to answer. Regrettably, I wasn't clear enough originally, though I'd be mildly surprised if anybody read my response like you did.

c.) Judging from other posts you have made in this thread, you're operating under bias yourself. I am not saying that to insult you or shoot down any of your points. Rather, the purpose of pointing it out is that you are reading anything that's not praise about the PSP as anti-Sony. Until you shed yourself of that point of view, I don't understand how you can achieve the objectivity you are trying to reach.

" I would argue, based on that statement, it IS based on opinion because I could and would simply disagree w/ that sentence and retaliate by recommending a look at the PSP's lineup (for the 100th time now: GT, GTA, TM, MGA, NFSU, Ape Escape, Tenchu, Spider-man title, etc, etc)."

The problem with your rebuttal is that the two big downers coming from Sony's camp directly affect whether these games will be any fun or even accessible. If the price tag is $300, the system, for a lot of people, is prohibitively expensive. If the battery life is as rumors suggest, playing these games will be difficult. If you basically have to keep the unit plugged in most of the time you use it, then what's the point of having it instead of a PS2? I agree with you 100% that the games will make the system. However, the practicality of playing these games is very much at issue as to whether the games will be worth it or not. Frankly, I wouldn't buy either a DS or a PSP if they cost $300 with 3 hours of battery life. Niether would be fun. You can't dismiss either of those issues or claim I'm raising them simply because of my own values. History is on my side here.


Again, again, and again: has Sony OFFICIALLY stated what the price will be?


Has Sony denied what the price is rumored to be?


they're already making all of these negative assumptions based on very little to go with,


Little to go with? The system has an optical drive, big screen, a fast processor, and a small form factor. It takes a lot of optimism not to look at this, as well as all the media has reported, and say "Oh, hey, this thing will be just like a GameBoy Advance!" Again, Sony has created this situation. Either they have created a product with low battery life, or they haven't spoken up and defended the ugly lies about their system. Nobody is being particularly moronic by being cautious, nor do you have a strong reason to be irritated at those people. People don't have to be Nintendo fans to yuck at what Sony has done or failed to do here.


Some are claiming it WILL be too expensive when, in fact, it isn't true because, as I have said numerous times now, nothing is official. So that part is wrong (blaming Sony for things that are not true), however.


So? Either they're right, in which case you may have some serious reconsidering to do, or they're wrong, and they'll be humiliated. Everybody wants to win predictions because it makes them appear to be smarter. I know, I see it all the time. And yes, you're right, they don't know either way. Some people are silly. Point taken. However, it is not all that reasonable that everybody should just ignore what the media has been reporting.


and THUS, that is why Sony appears so soft-spoken.


I understand what you're saying, and yes I see the logic of what you're saying, but I don't agree with it. I think Sony's soft spoken because they're not ready to launch. Maybe they just wanted to wait until Nintendo had made its splash. Can't say with any real certainty, but I do feel that Sony's a bit shaken by Nintendo's product. The current rumor is that Sony is delaying shipping until they can get the battery situation sorted out. I don't have any idea if it's true or not, but a delay at this point would be a strong indicator that either battery life or price is an issue. That would explain their silence. If they say <3 hours now, then that number will always haunt them. If they say >3 hours, but the unit doesn't live up to it, then blammo. If they wait a few months and make sure the unit will have reasonable battery life, then it would be unwise for them to announce it until then.

Who knows? I don't. I don't think what you said is all that likely, though. Though the games are the biggest reason to buy the system, it has to be proven the machine can be fun to play games on. That's Sony's job to do, and they need to do that before the game hype can really begin.


That sentence still doesn't sit well w/ me as being un-biased.


Sorry. If it makes you feel any better, the sentiments I relayed would have been there whether the DS was around or not. I suspect a lot of people have owned Game Gears or Lynx's or Turbo Expresses and discovered how painful high prices and low battery life really are. One doesn't need to love Nintendo or hate Sony to grimace at the rumors pointing to this result.


but I do know from other people they are simply hyped about the DS b/c it's Nintendo, and vice versa w/ Sony.


Actually, when the DS was first announced (before E3), Nintendo fans were shouting Virtual Boy!! Nintendo's hype didn't come around until E3, then it damn near doubled with this latest round of news. The DS has had an uphill battle with just about everybody, not just non-Nintendo fans. It has overcome a lot of hurdles.



So, in short, I am by no means just jumping on the Sony bandwagon again, after simply seeing how stylish looking it is


It'd help if you'd not be so dismissive of Nintendo's unique features. You shot down the stylus even though it has demo'd quite well to date. (Go see the Dogs demo, I'm dead serious.)

Also, I would advise you to keep an eye on the DS's wireless capability. The PSP has it, too, and I'm really curious what the differences will be. (I'll be keeping an eye on both myself.) Wireless+stylus+802.11 is awfully sexy. The PSP has 2 of the three, so hopefully it'll almost be up there. However, I haven't heard much about it acting like a hub. That could be a bit of a downer. (If you have links to recent stories about the wireless features of the PSP, I'd be more than happy to read them.)


the DS better not be second to Sony's PSP, or Nintendo will, indeed, be in deep trouble.


That, by itself, really isn't true. You mentioned before that Nintendo has a big focus on 1st party titles. Part of the reason for this is that they make a lot more money from 1st party games than 3rd party titles. They can be in second place and survive just fine. It was reported that Nintendo's profits last year were down 50%. Sounds really devastating until you realize they still made $300 million dollars. Okay, it's not $600 million, but it's still a healthy profit. Though I agree that they need to improve their market share, they're not in the dire straights that a lot of people are imagining they are. Nintendo enjoys a different set of economics than Sony or Microsoft does. The secret is their stellar first party titles. When those start going down hill, then yeah, Nintendo has a problem. My secret concern is what will Nintendo do when Mr. Miyamoto leaves?

BTW, could I bug ya to answer my question about if Sony had retailed the PS1 for $600?

[danydrunk]

but dont you think at the end, the only handheld remaining will be the gameboy?

[NanoGator]

but dont you think at the end, the only handheld remaining will be the gameboy?

If anybody but Sony were making a portable, I'd say yes without hesitation. Now I don't really know.

I will say, though, that Sony's lack of first party support is an exploitable weakness.

[danydrunk]

Sony Hints At PSP Delay

Sony Computer Entertainment network systems chief Izumi Kawanishi has become the first Sony official to admit that the PlayStation Portable may miss its intended December release date in Japan this year.

Speaking with Impress AV Watch, Kawanishi admitted that a release this year would be partially dependent on whether game publishers could have enough software ready for launch.

Since virtually no game was more than 50% complete at the recent Tokyo Game Show, this could be a tacit admission that the console will not be released anywhere in the world until 2005.

Ouch, It seems the rumors where true...loosing the december shopping spree is not a good thing.

[NanoGator]

:(

Sad to read that.

Hopefully it's not all doom and gloom, though.

[heavyness]

Speaking with Impress AV Watch, Kawanishi admitted that a release this year would be partially dependent on whether game publishers could have enough software ready for launch.
many companies were asking Sony for more specs and more dev kits, but they never got them in time. also, up until a month ago, companies were asking Sony how much it was going to cost. did they expect companies to make games for this without all the info?

if they don't handle the beginning of a new system well, its going to meet its end very fast. lets hope Sony get everything straighten and on track.

[Ghostscape]

I'm not really interested in the PSP.

If I wanted an mp3 player, I can either spend $300 on a 20 gigiPod (or less on a non-preppy player) or I can spend more than that on a PSP and 1 gig of memory stick.

If I wanted a portable movie player, I could spend $175 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000C83IH/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/103-6401030-2055004) on a Travel DVD player. Larger screen, better speakers, and plays DVDs. I don't need to bother ripping and shrinking my existing movies.

If I wanted a portable gaming machine, I could buy (well, I already own) a GBA. I could get a new flashy GBA SP for $80 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000087PM3/qid=1097902278/sr=8-6/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i6_xgl63/103-6401030-2055004?v=glance&s=videogames&n=507846) Plus it already has a large library of wonderful games in every genre.

Compare this to this possible pricing plan http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/rumor-sony-psp-pricing-packages-022583.php and make the decision yourself. (short story, $200 for a gameboy-esque package, $350 for a GPS/Camera/256 meg memory card package).

The only true reason I'd want to buy a PSP is the Armored Core game coming out, but I don't think I'll buy the system just for that game.

[pogonip]

20 years of History speak for itself ....The PSP will fail just like Sega's Handheld ,Neo Geo's handheld and all the other hand helds who always had superior graphics and features compared to Nintendo ... Battery Life is everything and it's the PSP biigest weakness ...just like all the other hand heldes . Isn't the deffinition of insanity doing something over and over again and expecting diffrent results ??? I forsee some Sony Game division heads rolling in the near future after release

[MisterE]

They [SONY] also need to show some games coming its way. (err maybe they have, but I keep missing it.) When speaking about whether you're biased or not, you sure sound biased there, no matter what your response...
Later you also claim me to be biased "Judging from other posts you have made in this thread, you're operating under bias yourself." That's the thing, I'd have to say the same exact thing about the DS (about not noticing the games). I think that's why we're also at each other's necks: I like Sony, you like Nintendo and we're both passionate about the system to our likings. But Sony & Nintendo simply don't mix :twisted: .

Rather, the purpose of pointing it out is that you are reading anything that's not praise about the PSP as anti-Sony.Well, aren't you doing that as well, to a point (reading anything not praise about the DS as anti-Nintendo)? I mean, it's quite obvious I have at least struck a nerve w/ this lengthy and heated response, no?


If the price tag is $300, the system, for a lot of people, is prohibitively expensive. If the battery life is as rumors suggest, playing these games will be difficult. If you basically have to keep the unit plugged in most of the time you use it, then what's the point of having it instead of a PS2?$300 didn't stop the PS1 into becoming the biggest selling console of all-time, nor did it stop the FRENZY of people when the PS2 launched and it too becoming the 2nd most dominant console ever made. True the PS1 & 2 are both consoles and may not be fair to compare them w/ the PSP, but isn't the PSP also an entertainment system, much like the PS2?

Frankly, I wouldn't buy either a DS or a PSP if they cost $300 with 3 hours of battery life. Niether would be fun.Frankly, I wouldn't buy a DS Or PSP either if the batter life sucked myself.....but once again you are going on pure speculation..and please don't give me that TGS bullcrap report story. It is possible those weren't the "final" versions of the PSP hardware and they can be further tweaked - especially if there is a delay (which appears likely judging from the new reports). It sucks to get a delay, but if it's for the good of the machine, I'm all for it. If the DS were in PSP's shoes at the moment, wouldn't you agree here?

Little to go with? The system has an optical drive, big screen, a fast processor, and a small form factor. I meant to say "little INFORMATION to go with." Information, in this case, meaning a full report by Sony, stating the contrary of people's views. I can see why you and others would think it's not possible to have a fruitful battery life w/ the PSP because of what you have mentioned above, but just because it has an LCD screen w/ a processor and in small form, does that mean it will automatically be crap and fail as you seem to be suggesting here (or at least, leaning towards)? Doesn't the Nintendo DS have not one but TWO lit screens?? One being a stylus pad to boot?

So? Either they're right, in which case you may have some serious reconsidering to do, or they're wrong, and they'll be humiliated. Everybody wants to win predictions because it makes them appear to be smarter. I know, I see it all the time. And yes, you're right, they don't know either way. Some people are silly. Point taken. However, it is not all that reasonable that everybody should just ignore what the media has been reporting. You're 100% right. Everyone wants to win predictions, more so when it comes to console wars, simply so you can say "Haha! I told you so!" Though, I don't have to "seriously reconsider" my thoughts about Sony's stance on price and battery life because I do REALIZE it's a possibility the price won't be that great, nor will the battery life. I'm prepared for that. I ALSO realize, however, that it's EQUALLY possible that the PSP will meet and exceed my expectations in terms of price and battery life as well. ANYTHING, at this point, is possible. Again, even though I lean towards Sony no matter what, I try to remain objective and keep an open mind.

Who knows? I don't. I don't think what you said is all that likely, though. Though the games are the biggest reason to buy the system, it has to be proven the machine can be fun to play games on. That's Sony's job to do, and they need to do that before the game hype can really begin.
..
Sorry. If it makes you feel any better, the sentiments I relayed would have been there whether the DS was around or not. I suspect a lot of people have owned Game Gears or Lynx's or Turbo Expresses and discovered how painful high prices and low battery life really are. One doesn't need to love Nintendo or hate Sony to grimace at the rumors pointing to this result. Need I point out Sony is a company that can sell the PSP cheap and afford to loose money initially, yet still make profits? Again, look at the PS2 and, hell, even the XBox, which, I should point out, is selling more than the Nintendo GameCube ;-D.


The DS has had an uphill battle with just about everybody, not just non-Nintendo fans. It has overcome a lot of hurdles. The DS, IMHO, still has a MAJOR uphill battle for me to gain enough interest in purchasing one. Why? Again, it all comes down to GAMES. I see a bunch of rehashed titles (that I've already enjoyed countless times before), platform games, ports, and wacky Japanese titles - titles that simply don't appeal to me. I haven't really seen, or may have "missed" (as you said about the PSP early on in your response :thumbsup: ) a really ultra cool DS game that made the front page of GameSpot or magic-box (sans those cool sounding wacky Japanese games :P). This, too, however just goes back to when I said "The PSP is for those who want specific games w/ entertainment values/bonus features; while the DS is for another crowd wanting different aspects of games/gaming." I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing Nintendo here in terms of its game lineup - hell, I love innovation - but it's just my own personal taste, I see no games that interest me, period.


It'd help if you'd not be so dismissive of Nintendo's unique features. You shot down the stylus even though it has demo'd quite well to date. (Go see the Dogs demo, I'm dead serious.) I didn't quite "shoot down the stylus." Initially I did say it was a gimmick-y feature, which I still view it somewhat as a gimmick as I've yet to see a game take full advantage of it and make it into an A+ game (but then again we won't know of this for a while now). But I later said I checked out some games that do take SOME advantage of it (like I mentioned w/ the Ridge Racer and that Doctor game) and did find it to be interesting. Until I see a game that appeals to me, like Splinter Cell, or Twisted Metal, or Max Payne, or ICO, or Prince of Persia, and add in a unique twist to make the stylus a UNIQUE and exclusive feature, I'll hold out on laying anymore interest in the product known as the Nintendo DS ;-P .
Though, I will check out this Dog demo, merely out of curiosity and check back w/ you on that.


Nintendo enjoys a different set of economics than Sony or Microsoft does. The secret is their stellar first party titles. When those start going down hill, then yeah, Nintendo has a problem. My secret concern is what will Nintendo do when Mr. Miyamoto leaves? That much is obvious. Though I have to question "[Nintendo's] stellar first party titles." Like I said, I used to LOVE Nintendo and its' games from the NES era, GameBoy, and into early/mid-N64-era, but after failed promises w/ the GameCube (major part of why I'm sour about Nintendo now :shrug: ) I've really lost a LOT of interest in Nintendo's own first party titles.

Actually, the last first party Nintendo title I really enjoyed was not the recent Paper Mario, no not Celda, not Sorrio Sunshine, but - call me crazy - Luigi's Mansion. Why? Because it took full advantage of the GameCube hardware, controller, had amazing graphics and animations, was just a blast to play! Most importantly, it was extremely innovative in the gameplay department (how many games prior to Luigi's Mansion let you catch ghosts in a VACUUM CLEANER? Or let alone catch any ghosts like from the movie "Ghostbusters"!?). I could go on...

But about Miyamoto? That's a damn good question. In today's age of rapidly declining originality, he will be missed. But then again, on the bright side, it may pave way for someone else to step up and shine.


BTW, could I bug ya to answer my question about if Sony had retailed the PS1 for $600? Question: Do you really think the PS1 would have been successful if it retailed for $600 instead of $300? That's exactly what the PSP is doing. Bugging me by making this thread impossibly longer? Sure! Why not?! If the PS1 had retailed for $600, instead of $300, obviously it would not have been so successful. But it didn't retail for $600, and need I remind you, went on to become to highest selling video game machine ever. Is this what Sony is doing w/ the PSP (by making it impossibly expensive)? Again, we don't know for sure and it all depends on how much money is too much in your head. If you're thinking $300 as the $600 PS1 scenario, in your eyes, it will fail. But to me, in my view, $300 is a reasonable (well, depending on battery life) price considering its abilities. The mini iPod alone is in the $250-$350 range but it only plays MP3's. A portable DVD playable can range from $150-$400+, but it doesn't play PSP games. The nGage --- just kiddin', ROFL! :scream: Point being, I think it's a more than reasonable price to pay $300 for something that does more than play your favorite titles, like playing movies and music. And considering Sony's past w/ the PS1 & PS2, I have confidence in them.

[NanoGator]

If I wanted a portable movie player, I could spend $175 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000C83IH/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/103-6401030-2055004) on a Travel DVD player. Larger screen, better speakers, and plays DVDs. I don't need to bother ripping and shrinking my existing movies.



Me, personally, I'd rather have the PSP as a movie machine, assuming the movie selection is good. Portable DVD players are too big and the media's too big and delicate. The only real downside that I would find annoying is that I wouldn't always want to hold it while watching. But I doubt it'd be too hard to rig up a way to make it sit up on a table.

[NanoGator]

When speaking about whether you're biased or not, you sure sound biased there, no matter what your response...
[/quote

Um, yeah, don't confuse bias for not finding it as interesting. If Sony comes out and says "It'll be $199!" I'll read up more on the games. I've really only paid attention to the technical specs at this point.

I think it's also worth pointing out that in my quote I said very clearly that I didn't know.

[quote="rockymaru]
Well, aren't you doing that as well, to a point (reading anything not praise about the DS as anti-Nintendo)? I mean, it's quite obvious I have at least struck a nerve w/ this lengthy and heated response, no?


I'm sorry my earlier response was heated. As for a nerve being struck, not liking the DS for whatever reason doesn't bother me. (Notice my first post wasn't heated.) I didn't get a touched nerve until you said I was biased against Sony. Not true. They haven't sold me. I won't pay $300 for a portable gaming machine no matter what games are on it. Nintendo would get the same response from me if they asked that for the DS.


$300 didn't stop the PS1 into becoming the biggest selling console of all-time


It did, however, stop a number of other portable systems from being adopted. Actually, those price tags were only $200. Both the Nomad and the Turbo Express were released for $200. (Note: At the time that each of these systems were released, $200 was worth more than it is now.) The Nomad could play any Genesis game and the TE could play any Turbo Graphics 16 cartridge game. (Come to think of it.. the TE may have been $300... I can't remember for sure.) They also suffered from being horrible on batteries. Nobody has released a reasonably popular system for $299, and there is little reason to think that Sony can pull it off.

This is all specualtive of course, but portable systems operate under a different level of economics than consoles do. I have lots of history to back me up on this one.


If the DS were in PSP's shoes at the moment, wouldn't you agree here?


No. If the reports saying the DS has the same battery life as the PSP is reported to have, I wouldn't be terribly interested in it. This would be doubly true if the DS had an optical drive. My mind wouldn't be changed until people that had DS's in their hand reported GBA-style battery life. Sony is in the same position with me. This is, of course, ignoring the price issue.

This isn't just about speculation, it's experience. My laptop can run nearly 4 hours playing avi files. But if I play a DVD on it, it barely runs 2 hours. Optical drives eat up a lot of power. There's the motor spinning the disc, and the laser reading it. Portable DVD players run about 90 minutes on a single charge. The batteries in these things are significantly larger than what can fit in a PSP's casing.

I'm sorry, but I can't just sit back and say "well they haven't said yet". I can't ignore what I know about portable devices. If it's any consolation, I had this concern about the DS as well. It has two screens plus wireless. Both of those draw power, too. Evidently, though, it can handle it. In Nintendo's favor, here, I have a GameBoy Advance SP. That thing runs forever on one charge. If I had a previous generation Sony portable, they'd be getting a little more optimism from me as well.


but just because it has an LCD screen w/ a processor and in small form, does that mean it will automatically be crap and fail as you seem to be suggesting here (or at least, leaning towards)? Doesn't the Nintendo DS have not one but TWO lit screens?? One being a stylus pad to boot?


Heh. The stylus pad doesn't add much to the power requirement. However, an optical drive IS a big drain. Also, it isn't clear just how energy efficient the PSP's processor is. The DS uses an ARM 9 processor, built just for mobile applications. ARM processors are a proven technology. The PSP is no doubt more powerful, but that power will eat into the battery. Every time the PSP has to fetch data from the disc, it will draw a LOT of power. The DS's use of cartridges makes it a more energy efficient device. It can grab data from the cartridge without using near as much energy.

Don't underestimate the draw this drive will have on the power. If Sony's releasing a tool to developers to emulate the battery, then this issue simply cannot be ignored. There's a reason that optical discs aren't big in the portable arena.


I ALSO realize, however, that it's EQUALLY possible that the PSP will meet and exceed my expectations in terms of price and battery life as well. ANYTHING, at this point, is possible. Again, even though I lean towards Sony no matter what, I try to remain objective and keep an open mind.


That's fine, but there are a couple of things you need to consider:

1.) Sony's benchmarks are legenedarily misleading. (The PS2 can display 66 million polys per second? O_o) Read the reviews when it comes out.

2.) You should be open minded and optimistic about Nintendo as well. Not because I want you to buy the DS. Not because I think it's bettre than the PSP. Rather, because, you could end up short-changing yourself. When I was a teenager, I was an anti-Sega dickhead. Nintendo was 100% always right, Sega was 100% always wrong. Believe me, you would have hated me. After I grew out of it, I realized I had missed out on a bunch of games I would have enjoyed. Fortunately, I was able to catch up, but I missed out on a bunch of fun I could have had. If I had been more objective, I would have had both a SNES and a Genesis. Oh well. At least it made having a Nomad fun. ;)


Need I point out Sony is a company that can sell the PSP cheap and afford to loose money initially, yet still make profits? Again, look at the PS2 and, hell, even the XBox, which, I should point out, is selling more than the Nintendo GameCube ;-D.


That's assuming that they'd make a profit on the PSP if it came out at $299. (Not impossible, but unlikely.) The more loss they take on it, the more games they have to sell per unit to make up for it. The Playstation 2 ran into this problem when it launched in Japan. The launch titles weren't too exciting, so people bought PS2s as DVD players. Heh I remember some speculation that Sony was in the red over it. I think they got over that problem pretty quickly, but it was still a wake-up call for them.

To be honest, I wouldn't be all that surprised if the PSP did come out at $199. Sony can't be that arrogant. They are making the processors and.. if I recall correctly.. the optical drive. They probably have some wiggle room, as well as a fire lit under them by Nintendo to make sure it comes out that low. If the PSP comes out in 05, I think the odds of it coming in at $199 go up dramatically. In that case, it's a lot more interesting to me. However, one thing does still bug me, it's hard to get a PocketPC with a decent processor and wireless capabilities for under $300. Those don't even have an optical drive. I know I'm not the only one that is skeptical about the price. If it were a cartridge based device, I would be a LOT more confident.

As for the XBOX outselling the GameCube, that depends on which country you're talking about, and which month you're looking at. Sometimes the XBOX wins more sales, sometimes the GC.


Again, it all comes down to GAMES. I see a bunch of rehashed titles (that I've already enjoyed countless times before)


Games matter. No arguing that. Rehashed titles? Most of the PSP games you're showing interest in are ports of games already available on the PS2. The DS 'rehashes' are updated to take advantage of the new capabilities the DS has. That's just for the franchise updates. Go have a peek at ds.ign.com. There are a lot of new titles there. The last couple of weeks of DS updates have been quite startling.

Don't get the DS if you aren't interested in the games, but spare us the rehash excuse. Seriously. There's little reason to expect that there are going to be a lot of non-ports on the PSP. The DS will likely have a lot of ports, too. (Sad little fact of portable gaming. The $30 price tag for mobile games means less profit.) At least the DS has unique capabilities to draw more originality towards it.

I'm sorry I phrased that so rudely, I just can't think of a more polite way of saying it.

But to me, in my view, $300 is a reasonable (well, depending on battery life) price considering its abilities. The mini iPod alone is in the $250-$350 range but it only plays MP3's. A portable DVD playable can range from $150-$400+, but it doesn't play PSP games. The nGage --- just kiddin', ROFL! Point being, I think it's a more than reasonable price to pay $300 for something that does more than play your favorite titles, like playing movies and music. And considering Sony's past w/ the PS1 & PS2, I have confidence in them.

Okay. Understand where I'm coming from, though: The Nomad and the Turbo Express were almost that expensive, and they didn't do well even though they played VERY popular games. Additionally, I have seen a LOT of grumpiness towards the PSP's rumored price point. Portable DVD players are not that popular an item. iPod is a good counterpoint to what I said. However, it also excels at what it does, and its cheaper competitors are not enjoying anywhere near the success that Apple is. For the PSP to be like the iPod, it will have to play exceptional games. How likely is that? Remember what I said about the $30 price point for games? It is hard enough to put the right amount of development into a AAA game, that won't get easier if they're losing nearly half the revenue they would generate by making a PS2 game instead. Remember, the iPod's success isn't just about playing music, it also has to do with the iTunes service. What equivalent does Sony have in their back pocket? (Boy I'd love to hear that Square's making a PSP exclusive FF title.) An on-line service, maybe? Now THAT would be slick. It has 802.11 capability if I remember correctly, if Sony had a service that took advantage of that...

I really don't think Sony's success with the PS1 is all that pertinent here. Sega was VERY successful with its Genesis, but the Game Gear didn't enjoy deep penetration into Nintendo's share of the market. I guess I just can't see eye to eye with ya on this one. The PS1/2 example has a lot of counter examples working against it.

G'nite. Sorry about how long winded this was. :)

[NanoGator]

BTW: I just read a review from IGN.com of the PSP from TGS. They said that the systems were running on batteries for over an hour and the battery meter still showed a full 3 bars.

Not the most scientific of observations, but it's encouraging.

[Recursive]

you have now officially gone around in 3 circles...

[Icestar]

It's always amusing to see two different sides trying to convince each other that their respective side is better. Man you people aren't fortune tellers and unless you happen to have a time machine, no one knows what will happen in respective launches, I thought the gamecube/xbox/ps2 consoles would've taught anyone anything. Everyone else was claiming their system was going to "own" the others and no one would buy them. All this proves is that once you've chosen your "side" you've become a blind fanboy.

[danydrunk]

jajajaajaja, its all about the looooooove for your console.

[MisterE]

Me, personally, I'd rather have the PSP as a movie machine, assuming the movie selection is good. Portable DVD players are too big and the media's too big and delicate.

You're right again in this case, as I neglected to mention the PSP actually has more of a bonus over portable DVD players here. As you pointed out, portable DVD players are big and clunky. You might as well buy a LAPTOP w/ a DVD-ROM in it :scream: .



I'm sorry my earlier response was heated. As for a nerve being struck, not liking the DS for whatever reason doesn't bother me. (Notice my first post wasn't heated.) I didn't get a touched nerve until you said I was biased against Sony. Not true. They haven't sold me. I won't pay $300 for a portable gaming machine no matter what games are on it. Nintendo would get the same response from me if they asked that for the DS.


By saying the word "biased," I didn't mean to insult you, but rather, I used the term to suggest that perhaps you were indeed overlooking the PSP due to you being more in favor of a Nintendo product. In other words, I understand - as you said in your prior post - that you are indeed in favor of Nintendo more, but I also didn't mean to imply you were TOTALLY against Sony and you were trying to be objective. But I think, and hope, we are clear on this issue now, your point is taken, and we can move on.

It did, however, stop a number of other portable systems from being adopted.

...

This is all specualtive of course, but portable systems operate under a different level of economics than consoles do. I have lots of history to back me up on this one.

True, but the consoles you mention I barely even remember. They were released by companies that either didn't have the economic power that Sony has today (again, they can afford to release the PSP for as low as perhaps $150 and still, in the end, make a profit, through 3rd party royalties, for one example), and they were released by companies that either went bankrupt or no longer make hardware anymore (like Sega).

I would say, don't give up on the PSP based on these figures/"history"/speculation or rumors. Remember, this is Sony, folks. I'm sure Sony has poured billions, or trillions (of Yen :scream: ) to ensure the PSP will succeed. You don't think, for example, the PSP is simply a gimmic-y toy, designed for the purpose of failing, do you? Well, er, ignore that last one, as a lot of people here do .

If the DS were in PSP's shoes at the moment, wouldn't you agree here? No

What I meant by that was: wouldn't you agree a delay would mean a good thing for the BENEFIT of the system itself?



If I had a previous generation Sony portable, they'd be getting a little more optimism from me as well.

Well, the PSP is Sony's first venture into the portable market, so I can see why you're not optimistic from that perspective. However, do remember Sony has, I'm sure, invested A LOT to ensure the PSP does not fail. Assuming the new reports of a delay are true, this is a good thing, in a way, because Sony *IS* indeed making sure their first portable entertainment system does not fail on arrival.

When you mention about the optical drive requiring more power and about your laptop, I understand how it's feasible to assume how much power it eats, but realize a few things first. One thing, for example, is that the PSP doesn't run DVD's. It's going to run much smaller disks, the UMD's, which are two times smaller than DVD disks (60mm vs. 120mm). Smaller disks means less area the laser has to read and because of the smaller ROM drive, it opens up more space inside the PSP and also makes the PSP smaller in overall size. Secondly, when you mention every time the laser has to fetch the data off the disk, true it will eat batteries. However, also realize the PSP features 32 Meg's of on-board memory and 4 Meg's of embedded DRAM as well. Not bad for a mini PS1.5, so to speak :) .




1.) Sony's benchmarks are legenedarily misleading. (The PS2 can display 66 million polys per second? O_o) Read the reviews when it comes out.


No kidding!! You are ABSOLUTELY right in this case. Remember the Final Fantasy movie character "real-time" demo? NO PS2 GAME, and I mean NO PS2 GAME will ever come close displaying as many polys and textures on screen at once. Why? That is Sony's fault for 2 reasons.

1) They made the PS2 far too difficult to program and didn't start helping developers until a couple of months prior the US launch of the PS2.

2) Because that 66-75 million poly count was not accurate to begin with. Estimates w/ textures, fps/TV standards, etc. were closer to 15-30 million. Trust me, I have "done my homework" and read all about that.

But on the bright side (and slightly negative), I read once about a tool that measures how much power a game is occupying and that GT3 only utilized less than one quarter (I believe) of the total PS2's capabilities. Yet, look how amazing that game turned out to be. So on the positive side, it looked and played amazing only utilizing whatever it was, 25%. The negative component is that obviously it did not even get to the half-way mark.....just imagine if it was running at the half-way mark or even better!!


2.) You should be open minded and optimistic about Nintendo as well. Not because I want you to buy the DS. Not because I think it's bettre than the PSP. Rather, because, you could end up short-changing yourself. When I was a teenager, I was an anti-Sega dickhead. Nintendo was 100% always right, Sega was 100% always wrong.

Dude...didn't I mention to you about the GameCube situation I faced? After the N64's failure, I *DETESTED* Nintendo and its failure to deliver the goods (esp compared to the many games as Sony had [quality AND quantity]). But after having an open mind, I was able to overlook the failed N64 and give Nintendo a 2nd chance w/ the GameCube at E3 2001. This was the first time Nintendo publicly displayed the GC and allowed people to play it. To say I was stunned about how awesome it looked (the logo, the innovative/cool design alone): the games lineup (first AND third party), and played, would be an understatement. Again, I mentioned playing Luigi's Mansion. This was the coolest damn game I have ever played (at least up until that time). I was fortunate and able to also play Eternal Darkness, Luigi a 2nd time (hehe), and briefly Pikman. I also saw (but didn't get a chance to play) the wildly popular and chosen best-of game, SW:Rogue Squadron (which turned out to be a very hard game and soured my experience), Kameo (which, to this day, is still not even out, partially due to Rare's split-up w/ Nintendo - which also p!ssed me off! And will instead probably go to XBox Next), and also saw the Metroid display. In short, Nintendo's future looked VERY bright and made me overlook the N64. Ultimately, I haven't even TOUCHED the GameCube in, literally, over a year. Why? Where are the games?!?

As for the XBOX outselling the GameCube, that depends on which country you're talking about, and which month you're looking at. Sometimes the XBOX wins more sales, sometimes the GC.

Hehe! It also depends on which analyst you read it from :D .

Rehashed titles? Most of the PSP games you're showing interest in are ports of games already available on the PS2.

Name which PSP title is a direct port from the PS2, aside from Spider-man 2 (which is also coming to the DS). MGAcid is completely new, Twisted Metal is completely new, Ape Escape, Ridge Racer, Coded Arms, Tenchu, and a Prince of Persia title (though I don't think this has been OFFICIALLY confirmed; it is a possibility at least) are new.

The DS 'rehashes' are updated to take advantage of the new capabilities the DS has. That's just for the franchise updates. Go have a peek at ds.ign.com. There are a lot of new titles there. The last couple of weeks of DS updates have been quite startling.

Quite simply, after visiting ds.ign.com, I did not see ONE game that interested me. Not ONE! But that's just me. On the other hand, the rehashes are indeed updated (albeit not much), but why would I want to fork out another $30-40 for a game (like Sorrio 64) I already beat YEARS ago...not to mention a title that should retail for $10-$20 considering it is considered a "Greatest Hit" title. Nintendo's pricing of aged, rehashed titles (like Mario 1, 2, 3 for the SP) at full price really irritates the living hell out of me.

For the PSP to be like the iPod, it will have to play exceptional games.

LOL! This is curious to me. Now, why is that? The iPod retails in the $250-$400 range, correct? Yet it is only able to play MP3's, and nothing else. The PSP can play MP3's but, more importantly, IT ALSO PLAYS GAMES ABOVE ALL ELSE!! Assuming the price will be $200-$300, I'd say it's well worth it, even more so than buying an iPod of course.

I really don't think Sony's success with the PS1 is all that pertinent here.

I think it is definitely relevant in this case. Remember, it was the Sega Saturn (Sega, at the time, a more than reputable game maker) vs. an unproven Sony PlayStation ("what the heck is a PlayStation?"). Who won, by an overwhelming margin, at that? Point being: Sony backed a lot of money into the PS1, they knew what they were doing, and w/ the PSP now, I also have to agree they know what the heck they are doing (especially now more than they did back w/ the PS1) and are also putting even MORE money into the PSP. The facts and stats of the past are there in Sony's favor. I get your point about the Nomad and what-have-you, as I've said, but did they have Sony's marketing and economic clout? I don't think so.

BTW: I just read a review from IGN.com of the PSP from TGS. They said that the systems were running on batteries for over an hour and the battery meter still showed a full 3 bars.

Not the most scientific of observations, but it's encouraging

Yep, I just read this too recently. They also said it got a little hot in the D-pad area, but then again, this was when they were at TGS: many people played it hands-on for a long period of time. (Note here I am trying to be objective and realistic at the same time :) ).

P.S. I saw nothing of a "Dogs demo" at DS.IGN.COM or GameSpot. What demo, exactly, are you referring to?

[Kyan]

Anyone who says Mario DS is just a rehash needs to watch this: >>>Mario DS Demonstration<<< (http://www.gamespot.com/live/streamer_new2.html?title=Gamespot+Live+Presents&ppath=ds%2Faction%2Fdssupermario4x4&path=mariods_demo1007.asx&push=0&pid=920758&ksubmoid=18f2486f-8e99-5b37-9038-8fbe3537c28d&urdate=1101024000)

Many of the other ports are receiving overhauls as well. I'm not entirely sold on the DS but after some reading on what they are achieving with the games I'm very interested. I'm more interested to see what Nintendo does with the GBA successor which I suppose depends on how successful the DS is.

I think Sony has an uphill battle because they are essentially aiming for a market that doesn't yet exist. Sony's PSP is not competing directly with any of Nintendo's offerings, Sony's is multi-function while Nintendo's is strictly games. Sony even said it themselves that they are not aiming for the Gameboy market but rather gadgets like iPod. The price and demand for the utilities the devices offer will have the two portables go their seperate ways.

Honestly, I'll be floored if the PSP launches below $300 because if you were to go out and buy comparable devices that make up the PSP you'd spend well over that amount.

[MisterE]

Anyone who says Mario DS is just a rehash needs to watch this: >>>Mario DS Demonstration<<< (http://www.gamespot.com/live/streamer_new2.html?title=Gamespot+Live+Presents&ppath=ds%2Faction%2Fdssupermario4x4&path=mariods_demo1007.asx&push=0&pid=920758&ksubmoid=18f2486f-8e99-5b37-9038-8fbe3537c28d&urdate=1101024000)

Many of the other ports are receiving overhauls as well. I'm not entirely sold on the DS but after some reading on what they are achieving with the games I'm very interested. I'm more interested to see what Nintendo does with the GBA successor which I suppose depends on how successful the DS is.
ZzzzzzzZZZZZzz. Huh? Wha? LOL. That demo was more boring than Sony's E3 conference. From what I saw though it's more like a "re-visit," so I apologize for the confusion when I said "rehash." I'm still not sold on Mario 64 DS, though.
And as you pointed out, there are a LOT of other "ports receiving overhauls as well," which also turns me off about the DS.

[Kyan]

well, as long as that's cleared up;)

Anyway, there are over 120 games in development for DS and out of them I'm pretty sure there will be a few original titles.

[KolbyJukes]

I've always loved Nintendo products, I've owned all the game boys, and I love what Nintendo has done for the portable gaming market. At the same time, I really don't see the point of dual screens, it just doesn't make any sense to me...I watch that Mario demo, I don't think I would ever look down at the map on the second screen, it would seem to me a better idea just to press start and look at the map...

the PSP is a tricky thing to judge, Sony has been far from forthcoming about their new product. I've never been a hardcore Sony fan, I'm an xbox/PC man myself, but I do hope Sony pulls off the PSP with comparable battery life and a great lineup of games...GTA: san andreas on a PSP would be....heaven.

-K.

[MisterE]

Hey KWAK. I'm a recent fan of your works (specifically the Goon) and it's nice to have you here. Onto your comments.....

At the same time, I really don't see the point of dual screens, it just doesn't make any sense to me...I watch that Mario demo, I don't think I would ever look down at the map on the second screen, it would seem to me a better idea just to press start and look at the map...

the PSP is a tricky thing to judge, Sony has been far from forthcoming about their new product. I've never been a hardcore Sony fan, I'm an xbox/PC man myself, but I do hope Sony pulls off the PSP with comparable battery life and a great lineup of games...GTA: san andreas on a PSP would be....heaven.

-K.
You know what's funny, watching that Mario demo, I was thinking the same exact thing. Considering this title is being (re)made by Miyamoto (at least I think so, is it not?), one might think of a better way to utilize the second screen, rather than it acting as a map.

As far as GTA goes, rumor has it that Rockstar will, indeed, bring a GTA title to the PSP. Will it be GTA:SA or a completely new title? Hard to say at this point, but in any event, a 3D version of GTA on the PSP certainly sounds enticing...more so than Mario 64 Re-dux, oops, I mean "DS." :scream:

[danydrunk]

sorry to keep continuing with this endless discussion, although an entertaining one, but......did you watch the whole mario ds demo????????? I ask this because something tells me you didnt watch the whole video. The second screen was used for the following during the video demo:

It was used as a map (yes you mentioned this)
It was used as an analog controller (although the guy couldnt make it work couse it was in japanese, but it can be used in someway with a thumb device as a analog controller.
It was used to move the camera while playing
It was used in a lot of other creative ways in the minigames (to draw lines, to shoot balls, etc etc)

You have to remember, the ds has to processors, each can be configure to one monitor at a time. one is a touch screen, so thats the main reason to have two screens.

By the way, I am too a fan of your work kwak !!, Im the one who asked you those stupid questions at base xsi.

[NanoGator]

You're right again in this case, as I neglected to mention the PSP actually has more of a bonus over portable DVD players here. As you pointed out, portable DVD players are big and clunky. You might as well buy a LAPTOP w/ a DVD-ROM in it

Err, no, don't agree with that for a couple of reasons:

1.) Laptops are VERY hard to use on a plane, even a small one. Portable DVD players are considerably smaller.
2.) Most portable DVD players have both TV out and MP3 capability.

Just to be clear, I'm only really thinking about plane/train/bus related travel. I'd rather have an Archos video jukebox thingy than a PSP or a portable DVD. I think I read somewhere that they are developing one with a DVR base station. Not sure if that's true or not, but blammo, that's damn cool.


I have a TabletPC now, which pretty much kills my desire to have any of those devices for watching video. Because it works in slate mode, I can just dump some DivX rips to it and be off and running. I can happily use it on a plane or whatever, yadda yadda yadda. I love that thing. ;)


But I think, and hope, we are clear on this issue now, your point is taken, and we can move on.

Agreed, and yes, I'm sorry I was snippy with you at times.


They were released by companies that either didn't have the economic power that Sony has today (again, they can afford to release the PSP for as low as perhaps $150 and still, in the end, make a profit, through 3rd party royalties, for one example), and they were released by companies that either went bankrupt or no longer make hardware anymore (like Sega).


Sega was actually a rather big company when the Game Gear was released. It also had a decent installed base... ~4 million if I recall accurately. Man my memory is fuzzy on this one. I think it was $150, which was pricey then, but only $50 more than a Game Boy. In any event, both before the launch of the GG and long after its demise, Sega had plenty of financial power. The problem was that it was just too big and not very battery friendly.


I would say, don't give up on the PSP based on these figures/"history"/speculation or rumors. Remember, this is Sony, folks.


Nah, I haven't given up on the PSP. (Note: I don't think that was specifically directed at me, but I thought I'd clarify my view.) I think it'll enjoy a decent successs. Here's the thing: To date, I've really only been thinking about its launch. If it comes out at $299, I don't see it being a huge initial success. The word 'initial' here is very important. The price will drop. It has to. If, in a year, it comes down to $199, it'll become far more interesting. That is, of course, assuming it has interesting games to go with. But here is the problem: If the system doesn't sell well, there is little incentive for companies to make games for it. That's where it gets tricky: What's Sony going to do in that event to encourage more game growth? Will they fight for it or just axe it and move on? Remember, Sony is a business. They'll axe it if it's not an interesting product to the market. They've done it before. Pity, I was about to buy a Clie.


What I meant by that was: wouldn't you agree a delay would mean a good thing for the BENEFIT of the system itself?


I'm a little lost on the context of this comment. (I'm tired, too lazy to read up.) So I'll just answer for both Nintendo and Sony. If I didn't answer your question, please don't feel as though I'm dodging it.

A delay for Sony would likely be more good than bad. A.) Hype over the DS will die down. B.) Price will likely go down. C.) If the battery rumors are true (I'm starting to lean towards them being exaggerated now...) they have time to work on it. D.) More launch titles.

A delay for Nintendo would be awful: A.) Hype over the PSP will go up. B.) Nintendo has a reputation about delays. It's just starting to die down and they really can't afford to have it re-emerge. C.) Excitement over it would die down. Nintendo's riding quite a wave right now.


One thing, for example, is that the PSP doesn't run DVD's. It's going to run much smaller disks, the UMD's, which are two times smaller than DVD disks (60mm vs. 120mm).

These are DVDs, just miniaturized versions. The laser is the same, and it draws the same power. However, the motor won't have to work as hard to spin the disc. Small concession there.

Yes, it does have RAM, and yes the developers had BETTER take good advantage of it. However, it still has to load the data in order to accomodate that RAM. It still has to boot up. The system has wonderful graphical abilities to take advantage of that the developers will feel a need to do, especially when porting existing games. At this point, we, the customers, have to be concerned about how enticed the developers are to make these games battery efficient.

You know what would be kind of cool? What if you had a memory stick in the PSP and the developer found a way to 'install' the game over to it. It'd still need the UMD, but it could cache some of the rapid access stuff over to it and not need to hit the disc as often. From a battery point of view, this'd be a good thing.


But on the bright side (and slightly negative), I read once about a tool that measures how much power a game is occupying and that GT3 only utilized less than one quarter (I believe) of the total PS2's


Oops, sorry man, I was thinking 'battery life' not 3D power. I'm quite satisfied that the PSP will have cool 3D graphics. The screenshots are pretty, too. I was thinking "be wary of their battery estimates". I don't have any reason to be skeptical over the 3d processing power of it.


I was able to overlook the failed N64...


Failed? They sold 30 million units and created a number of hall-of-fame games. It wasn't as successful as the PS1, but it was certainly a very profitable venture for Nintendo, and there are lots of happy gamers to boot.

As for the rest of the comment, I'll say again, the games are the most important factor. If the PSP games are more interesting to you than that's your system. Seriously. No problem with that. I will say, though, I'm still not convinced that you have a full picture of what Nintendo is offering. I'll comment on that more in a bit.


Name which PSP title is a direct port from the PS2, aside from Spider-man 2 (which is also coming to the DS). MGAcid is completely new, Twisted Metal is completely new, Ape Escape, Ridge Racer, Coded Arms, Tenchu, and a Prince of Persia title (though I don't think this has been OFFICIALLY confirmed; it is a possibility at least) are new.


Eh poor choice of words on my part. Okay, they're not 'ports', but they're definitely rehashes. I mean, be serious man, you can't complain about Mario 64 DS being a rehash when the games you're interested in all have incarations you can play on your PS2 right now this second. Seriously. *That* is what is bugging me here. I don't mind if you're underwhelmed by the DS updates. No problemo at all.

Here's something you should think about: All the games you just mentioned could be ported faithfully to the PS2 or even the GameCube or XBOX. Mario 64 DS? Not completely. A good chunk of it, but not all of it. It's a multi-player game that takes advantage of the wireless capabilities of the DS. It'd require a split/quad screen on the GameCube, and in that event there's no being sneaky. The map the DS shows on the alternate screen will either have to be off, or obscure the play screen for EACH player. The touch screen games that come with it won't make it at all. That last point is true of ANY DS game. I know that doesn't mean a whole lot if you don't care about the stylus, but every indication so far is that it'll be a well used feature.

This would be a good time to show you the Puppy Times demo, but dammit, the link I have is down. I'm seriously peeved about that. I don't think it'd change your mind about the DS, but I think it'd leave you with a better impression of it. The stylus is as close as one is going to get to a mouse. As a PC Gamer, I'm quite enthused about this. Stylus + 802.11 = woo! (to me.)


Nintendo's pricing of aged, rehashed titles (like Mario 1, 2, 3 for the SP) at full price really irritates the living hell out of me.


So... don't buy it! Heh. You're going to run into this on the PSP as well. There are going to be 'rehashes' on both systems. At least Nintendo has something new to introduce with the DS. The PSP has very little over the PS2. In either case, you are entirely at the mercy of the developers, not Sony or Nintendo. In Nintendo's case, though, they provided extra doodads to encourage something more than just a direct port.


the iPod retails in the $250-$400 range, correct? Yet it is only able to play MP3's, and nothing else.


Psst. iTunes. I mentioned that. On the flip side, there are other similar MP3 players for $200-$450, some are even technically superior to the iPod. They're not selling near as well. iTunes iTunes iTunes.


IT ALSO PLAYS GAMES ABOVE ALL ELSE!! Assuming the price will be $200-$300, I'd say it's well worth it, even more so than buying an iPod of course.


Fair point. However, a few things to consider:

1.) Yeah it plays MP3s, but only on the memory stick. It's a far cry from the umpteen gigs you get on the iPod. Flash based Mp3 players aren't as successful. Memory's limited. In other words, it'd be an annoying MP3 player compared to an iPod. If you're buying a game machine, it's great, if you're buying a music player, it's not that wonderful of machine.

2.) It plays games, but so does your $150 PS2 with a much better collection of games. That's a much harder choice for a lot of people than you might realize. Serious gamers don't put all their eggs into the portable basket. Seriously, how many people out there that can spend $300 on a system would get a Game Boy before getting a GC/XBOX/PS2? Not many.

3.) How much gaming will one want to do on it? If it's enough to justify the price tag, why would they do that over a console? Portable gaming machines are more thought of as a peripheral than a stand-alone system. That's not all that surprising as typically the consoles have a lot more to offer. Frankly, I'm a little worried that $150 is too high for the DS! The media has well recieved it, though, so I'm not exactly sweating over it. (Pity, I won't be able to get one at launch.)


I think it is definitely relevant in this case. Remember, it was the Sega Saturn (Sega, at the time, a more than reputable game maker) vs. an unproven Sony PlayStation ("what the heck is a PlayStation?").


Heh. Sony's success with the PS1 over the Saturn was due more to the fact that Sega was arrogant and incompetent with that system. Sega's reputation was not so hot when that system came out. First off, the Saturn was primarily a 2D machine that was band-aided to do 3D. Secondly, Sega had also confused the marketplace by releasing the 32X, the Sega CD, and the Nomad. The president of Sega was mad as hell when Sony had announced the PS1 and discovered the Saturn wasn't going into the 3D market like they should have. If they had a little more foresight, it's not so clear that the PS1 would have been so successful. For the first year especially, they had very little competition. Sony does not have that now with the PSP. During the Saturn/PS competition, you could have a Playstation and play all the games you wanted. The Saturn had very little in terms of unique capabilities or games to compete with. The PSP will have to compete with Nintendo and the PS2/3. OUch. I don't think that's a heavy ding against it, but it is something will overcome.

I agree with you, though, that Sony will do more than just a half-assed effort. They really don't have any choice. What they do have on their side is that Sony is no stranger to portable markets. The Walkman was insanely successful and their mini-disc ain't half bad either.

All that said, no, even in the event of huge success by the PSP, I don't see it relating to the PS1. Well there is one aspect I think is relevent: Sony did get a hell of a lot of game support for the PS1/2. No reason why that wouldn't carry over to the PSP. Partial concession.


They also said it got a little hot in the D-pad area...


I really don't think that'll be a problem. If anybody said they wouldn't buy a PSP for that reason, I'd look at them funny. Heh.

[NanoGator]

BTW KWAK, your artwork is very inspiring! I'm glad that was pointed out!

[MisterE]

sorry to keep continuing with this endless discussion, although an entertaining one, but......did you watch the whole mario ds demo????????? I ask this because something tells me you didnt watch the whole video.
An entertaining discussion, indeed! But, no, you are absolutely right, I won't deny that: I DID NOT watch the entire thing. I watched it up until prior making it to the half-way mark. Why? Read what I typed up above. It was "more boring than Sony's E3 conference!!" While I trust your words, that the Mario DS has cool features using the 2nd screen (such as the aforementioned mini-games...might be cool), I'm just simply tired of Mario and rehashes (or if you'd rather read it differently, "revisits"), and that demonstration was simply dull, period.

Though, I would like to see something really cool: a squirrel game using the DS. The one screen would be a first person view from the squirrel, and the 2nd screen would be a third person screen. The user would be able to take the stylus pen and it would correspond to the squirrel's tail - you would use it to wack your foes, namely dogs and cats, on your ultimate mission of collecting 120 acorns and 120 peanuts!!! "Gain bonus acorns and peanuts by begging and acting cute to your trusty human friends!"
That game would own all! :bounce:

[danydrunk]

two words: Starcraft ds !! imagine the possibilities, given the fact that starcraft has already being released for the nintendo 64 it wouldnt be that hard. Now add stylus controller, voice commands and 4 player online deathmatch and you have the best hanheld game ever.

Oh starcraft......."lets burn" "roger"

[AnimBot]

I've definately seen some pretty creative stuff going on with the DS. The more stuff I see the less gimmicky that second screen appears to be. The PSP is just damn sexy though.

[MisterE]

Crap! I was halfway finished typing up my response and when I hit backspace to delete something, my browser accidentally went back, and when I went forward again it deleted everything! Now I have to re-do everything all over again.

Sega was actually a rather big company when the Game Gear was released. It also had a decent installed base... ~4 million if I recall accurately.

No, no, don't get me wrong here. You're absolutely right. Sega was huge back in the early '90s. Remember Sonic the Hedgehog? But what I meant to do was illustrate how Sony is a much LARGER corporation compared w/ Sega, for example. Sony makes quality TV's, DVD players, audio equipment (stereos, portable audio players), laptop and desktop computers, camcorders, digital cameras, accessories, own MGM and thus now own a larger portion in the movie industry.




I'm a little lost on the context of this comment. (I'm tired, too lazy to read up.) So I'll just answer for both Nintendo and Sony. If I didn't answer your question, please don't feel as though I'm dodging it.



Once again, you're right. You understood what I meant fine when you said: "A delay for Nintendo would be awful: A.) Hype over the PSP will go up. B.) Nintendo has a reputation about delays. It's just starting to die down and they really can't afford to have it re-emerge. C.) Excitement over it would die down. Nintendo's riding quite a wave right now."

We're perfectly clear on this now :) .



Here's the thing: To date, I've really only been thinking about its launch. If it comes out at $299, I don't see it being a huge initial success. The word 'initial' here is very important. The price will drop. It has to. If, in a year, it comes down to $199, it'll become far more interesting.



You know, when you stop to really think about the price (if it launches for $299 in the US - again, pure speculation), it does create an interesting dilemma. On the one hand, you'll have the Sony aficionados who'll be willing to pay $299 for the PSP considering they've done the same for the PS1 & PS2. On the other hand, you'll have outsiders interested in a portable PlayStation, who may have either never gotten a Sony PlayStation before, or have bought either or both a PS1 and/or PS2 when it DROPPED in price. They may not be so willing to jump on the bandwagon and purchase one. I think it will, indeed, come down to the Sony fans in making the PSP an initial success, assuming it does launch for $299. If, on the other hand, Sony does in fact make it cheaper (and thereby losing money at the start) at $199, they'll obviously have a much better start and give Nintendo a run for its money (regardless of what Sony says that they're not aiming to directly compete w/ Nintendo alone).




These are DVDs, just miniaturized versions. The laser is the same, and it draws the same power. However, the motor won't have to work as hard to spin the disc. Small concession there.



That's what I was aiming for: about the fact that since the disks are smaller they won't have to work as hard. Smaller circumference, in short. Simple physics. Though you say the laser is the same and thus draws the same amount of power. Is this true? I don't mean to imply you're wrong, you're probably right, but I would have assumed Sony would have developed a new, cheaper type of laser to accommodate the smaller PSP package.



Failed? They sold 30 million units and created a number of hall-of-fame games. It wasn't as successful as the PS1, but it was certainly a very profitable venture for Nintendo, and there are lots of happy gamers to boot.



No doubt it sold a few million, but it was the first time Nintendo did not finish in first place. In fact, compared w/ the 100 million PS1's sold vs. the 30 million N64 units sold, it was a landslide. Sony beat Nintendo by 70 million units (well okay maybe it was 100 million PS1's SHIPPED and not SOLD, last I heard, but still, Sony may have beaten Nintendo by roughly 60-65 million consoles sold). And my point being, in MY MIND it failed. It failed to live up to expectations. I think there were only 5-6 games in TOTAL I ever purchased for the N64, and wound up returning one title purchased the day after (I think it was NBA Jam or something similar).

Sorry for the jab at Nintendo there, but I couldn't help the #'s .




Eh poor choice of words on my part. Okay, they're not 'ports', but they're definitely rehashes. I mean, be serious man, you can't complain about Mario 64 DS being a rehash when the games you're interested in all have incarations you can play on your PS2 right now this second. Seriously. *That* is what is bugging me here. I don't mind if you're underwhelmed by the DS updates. No problemo at all.



True, it's definitely a possibility some of the titles I mention could very well be ported. It's ALSO a possibility the PSP could ship for $199 . But is it probable that MGAcid, Twisted Metal (a 2nd party Sony title), GTA, GT will ever be ported to the DS (forget the XBox or GC here for a moment, let's talk portable systems)?? For starters, as I said TM is a Sony made game, end of story. GTA will NEVER see the lights of day on any Nintendo system, PERIOD! I think we can agree there. And again, Gran Turismo is an in-house (this case 1st party) Sony game. I mentioned PoP and Ridge Racer. True, those are the only ones I mentioned that could very well be ported over to the DS. Though, if you had to choose which system to play it on - battery life aside here considering, again nothing has been set in stone - would you want to play it on an uglier DS, or a much prettier PSP?




This would be a good time to show you the Puppy Times demo, but dammit, the link I have is down. I'm seriously peeved about that. I don't think it'd change your mind about the DS, but I think it'd leave you with a better impression of it.



Hey man, as I said, I'd be happy to see some cool innovative games thrown my way. I try keep an open mind about ALL games...even Nintendo games or games made for the GC (I'm still looking forward to RE4 - if it ever comes out, and Killer 7. Though, actually, Killer 7 will now be available for the PS2 as well :/ ).




So... don't buy it! Heh. You're going to run into this on the PSP as well.



Heh, I surely won't! But don't you find it amusing to look at your local Circuit City or Best Buy ad to find the "newly" (re)released Super Mario Bros. for the SP at full price?

Sure gamers may run into some ports (like Madden, ESPN NBA 2k5, Ridge Racer, THUG2), but rehashes of games that came out over 5 years ago (Rayman) and upwards of 20 years ago (Mario Bros 1-3, Mario 64)? I don't think so. So far I have yet to see a "revisit" :) on the PSP.



Psst. iTunes.




Forgive my lack of knowledge on the iTunes service, but isn't it only a software-based "jukebox" (word quoted from the Apple website)? Can it play 2D or 3D games? Can you watch movies on the iPod through iTunes??



1.) Yeah it plays MP3s, but only on the memory stick



There's also a USB 2.0 slot, remember? Flash drives, flash drives. Getting cheaper by the day.



2.) It plays games, but so does your $150 PS2 with a much better collection of games.




You make it sound as if the GC or GameBoy is exempt from this issue. I already mentioned about the list of games that are in the cards for being REHASHED (sorry, "revisited") on the DS.



3.) How much gaming will one want to do on it? If it's enough to justify the price tag, why would they do that over a console?




Kind of goes w/ what I said about...I should ask: why would one want to do buy a DS to play the Mario games over on it again? Let alone the other countless remixed versions of other games in the works.



The PSP will have to compete with Nintendo and the PS2/3. OUch. I don't think that's a heavy ding against it, but it is something will overcome.



Why does the PSP "have to compete with ... the PS2/3"? The PSP is a portable gaming machine. The PS2/PS3 is a console-based piece of hardware. They're tailored for different markets.

Finally, to close up, as you said Sony is, indeed, no stranger to the portable arena, so to speak. Like you mentioned, they practically INVENTED the Walkman, and the Mini Disc format has gotten more popular over time (due to price drops and how cute it looks :) ). And not to mention Sony's knowledge of the consumer market (again, TV's, DVD players, camcorders, cameras, headphones, speakers, etc etc).

Finally, yes, KWAK has inspired me to create an avatar of a new character I modeled so I'm not just "Rockymaru: veteran" hehe.

[NanoGator]

Rockymaru: I'll respond to your post later tonight, i'm off to get dinner now. But about the browser backspace disappearing 'feature', I just wanted to recommend Opera (or possibly FireFox). In Opera, if you go back and forth in the middle of posting a comment, it'll retain what you had typed in the field. I'm fairly certain FireFox does this as well. You'll like the other benefits either of those browsers provides as well, including well-made pop-up blocking. ;)

[danydrunk]

Yeah I use opera too, is a blessing.

Nanogator = Nintendo ds and opera browser
Danydrunk = Nintendo ds and opera browser

Rockymaru = psp and internet explorer



jejjeje just making fun of the internet explorer

[KolbyJukes]

LMAO, glad I could inspire everybody.

Nanogator...I've never seen anyone write that long of a post...congrats man. Rockymaru, you come in 2nd longest.

-K.

[danydrunk]

those guys are crazy arent they? jaajaja

[ambient-whisper]

2) Because that 66-75 million poly count was not accurate to begin with. Estimates w/ textures, fps/TV standards, etc. were closer to 15-30 million. Trust me, I have "done my homework" and read all about that.
um. you do know that most ps2 games show less than 50-75k polys right? if not even less than that. thats 50 to 75 thousand. nowhere near the 15 million mark. those polygon numbers that they get are from benchmarking geometry that is never being transformed, or have any textures, etc. its very theoretical. in practical terms, if we could actually get those numbers we wouldnt need another pc for the next 6-10 years :) here i have a fairly decent pc that is much more powerful than the ps2, and yet i can barely make it past 5 million polygons in zbrush.

[MisterE]

um. you do know that most ps2 games show less than 50-75k polys right?
I said "Estimates w/ textures, fps/TV standards, etc. were closer to 15-30 million." Hereby meaning what analysts theorized would be the MAX poly count w/ textures, draw distances, fps, and everything else factored in. I didn't say, or at least mean to imply, that PS2 games even reached this number. I simply quoted what analysts believed would be the max limit the PS2 could do.


here i have a fairly decent pc that is much more powerful than the ps2, and yet i can barely make it past 5 million polygons in zbrush.

Just by concluding your PC is "more powerful" than the PS2, and you can't even get past 5 million polys, doesn't mean the PS2 couldn't even reach 4-5 million polys itself. You have to remember: the PS2 and your PC are made for different purposes and utilize completely different architecture. The PS2, GC, and XBox are designed primarily for games w/ nothing like Windows XP running in the background and can perform probably more than what you think.

[ambient-whisper]

theyre not THAT different from your standard pc.
the xbox is pretty much a pc in a smaller box, a proprietary videocard thats spun off geforce, and a hard drive format thats not really available for us to use. sure theres differences but the way things work arent that different. especially for 3d based systems.

the fact that they can use special optimizations or code paths to accelerate a number of things doesnt mean that they can do magic with it. to display the amount of polygons stated, you would need quite a bit of ram, of which the ps2 doesnt have much of. take windows off my machine and you save about 130 megs. out of a whole gig. how much does the ps2 have again?

with games, the main reason why they run well on consoles is because its a fixed architecture, where developers can exploit its many features. on pcs they cant do that because games have to be made with everyone in mind. theres no specific card or processor to take advantage of.

[edit]

and yes, sony sucks when it comes to stuff like disc roms. i had a ps2 ( second gen ), and a month after getting it, it started to pick games it liked to play. a year after it wouldnt read any games, or movies. i had 3 cdroms from sony. all of which have died not too long after buying em.

now. ive had one panasonic drive throughout that entire time that ive owned about 4-5 sony devices, and the panasonic one has gone through 4x more abuse. yet it works fine to this day. i wouldnt mind if panasonic provided sony with disc drives for their new systems. atleast they know how to build drives that arent sissies.

[MisterE]

theyre not THAT different from your standard pc.
the xbox is pretty much a pc in a smaller box, a proprietary videocard thats spun off geforce, and a hard drive format thats not really available for us to use. sure theres differences but the way things work arent that different. especially for 3d based systems.

Bah, I should have kept XBox out of this when I typed that. I was primarily thinking the PS2 and GC. Obviously, as you have pointed out, the XBox is indeed a GeForce 4 & a hard-drive w/ other guts and a big fat ugly casing on top :).


with games, the main reason why they run well on consoles is because its a fixed architecture, where developers can exploit its many features. on pcs they cant do that because games have to be made with everyone in mind. theres no specific card or processor to take advantage of.

Absolutely right. I was kind of hinting this in my last post and was going to add it in after I typing up about Windows XP in the background but didn't want to make the post any longer :D .

[Renderman_XSI]

I dont know if you guys seen this article by news week:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6257072/site/newsweek/

but its a worth a read. As far as buying a DS or PSP. For me its all about the games, and from the list of games i see for DS vs PSP. PSP games appeal to me more(GT4 mobile,Ys The Ark of Napishtism) and if they every bring out a decent 2D fighting game(Street Fighter Alpha) that would make it even sweetier.

Buying a PSP mainly for games and secondary function Mp3 player. All in all this reminds me of the Playstation vs N64 days..and you all knew what happen ;) . I predict, PSP out selling DS over a period of a year and keeping the lead.

http://www.techjapan.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=605&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

http://www.techjapan.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=611&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

http://www.techjapan.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=612&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

also worth the read ;)

[MisterE]

Thank you, Renderman, for the links. They were pretty informative. I especially liked part 2 of the interview. Here's an excerpt:

Q: For example, the PSP will also be able to deal with video content - will you be able to watch at least one movie?

Kawanishi: Of course, that's the mimimum requirement. The battery will last quite a bit longer than that.
Cheers! :beer: :buttrock:

[danydrunk]

So rokymaru, you were saying that the ds was the one that had all this ports? read this:

Heres a quote from gamasutra.com, in the tokyo game show interviews section



GS: Koei is developing Sengoku Musou games for both the PSP and the DS. How different are they?

TT: They're both totally different. The PSP game is a PORT of the PS2 version, but the DS game is going to be made in a different way. At this point, we can't talk about the DS version, but the PSP version was just finished.

[Renderman_XSI]

Thank you, Renderman, for the links. They were pretty informative. I especially liked part 2 of the interview. Here's an excerpt:

Cheers! :beer: :buttrock:
no problems. Seems some people here abit heated over this PSP vs DS issue. Also seems people are basically saying the PSP wont succeed...i wonder if they are the same people that said the PS wont succeed in the PS vs N64 era...:)

anyway, here are the videos from TGS 2004 for the PSP:

http://www.playstation.jp/ch/pv/asx/tgs2004/mv_psp_ms.asx
http://www.playstation.jp/ch/pv/asx/tgs2004/pv_psp_scej.asx
http://www.playstation.jp/ch/pv/asx/tgs2004/mv_psp_ct.asx
http://www.playstation.jp/ch/pv/asx/tgs2004/mv_psp_title01.asx
http://www.playstation.jp/ch/pv/asx/tgs2004/mv_psp_title02.asx
http://www.playstation.jp/ch/pv/asx/tgs2004/mv_psp_title03.asx
http://www.playstation.jp/ch/pv/asx/tgs2004/mv_psp_title04.asx

the first one is interesting. the "game" Talkman seems really interesting :D

[NanoGator]

".i wonder if they are the same people that said the PS wont succeed in the PS vs N64 era..."

The people saying it are the people that watched many other interesting portables die.

[Frank Lake]

And many people simply don't want Nintendo to go the way of Sega, for purely emotional reasons.

Frankly I'm VERY happy Nintendo is getting SOME type of competition in the handheld arena. They shown almost no innovation over the last 10 years and have only gotten moving within the last 3 years because of Sony's hinting at moving into their market.

*hey Nano!, chrono*

[MisterE]

Nice of you to continue your flame, danny. I thought this debate was basically over. Guess I was wrong..

So rokymaru, you were saying that the ds was the one that had all this ports? read this:

Heres a quote from gamasutra.com, in the tokyo game show interviews section
OMG! WOW! 1 game that's a direct port from PS2->PSP. And it's Samurai Warriors. Yep, I'm looking forward to that one all right /end sarcasm :rolleyes: . Nowhere did I say the PSP wouldn't have its share of ports. In fact, I didn't deny there wouldn't be any PS2->PSP ports in my other posts. Obviously, this is inevitable. Spider-man 2, THUG 2, Madden..those are all direct ports. It's a business move designed to generate more money by 3rd party companies. Again, want ports (or rather, older, rehashes)? Why don't you list yourself some of the games coming out for the DS instead of staying here to bash the PSP. THAT, I would very much like to see.

Lastly, if you're trying to continue this debate, at least have the decency to spell my nickname correctly. It's "Rockymaru."

[MisterE]

".i wonder if they are the same people that said the PS wont succeed in the PS vs N64 era..."

The people saying it are the people that watched many other interesting portables die.
And (some, not necessarily you, Nano:) ) are being blinded by their love of Nintendo by neglecting Sony's success in the video game market for the past 10 years. :)

[danydrunk]

Hey rocky, no need to get angry !! jeeje, Im just trying to come with my evidence to defend my client. I know there will be rehashes for both consoles, but it is still strange for me why you are saying that the ds has more rehashes?

from the 12 launch titles, I believe 3 are totally new (note that we are not discussing if they appeal or not to you):

Spiderman ds (design exclusively for the ds)
sprung ( a dating simulator from ubisoft)
project rub (weird game by sega)

I dont know about some of them, But at least all of the games will take advantage of the ds touch screen and wireless capabilities. and you get a wireless instant messaging application plus the metroid demo.

This is the recent news, nothing out of the ordinary but ds will probably sell very well in japan.

Japan retailers report big DS preorders On preorders alone, the Nintendo DS is the third best-selling system in Japan this week. TOKYO--The Nintendo DS is the third best-selling video game console for the week of October 11-17, Nikkei BP Consulting reported today. Of course, the machine isn't out until December 2 in Japan, but electronics retailers are including preorders for the system in their sales calculations. First place in this week's chart went to Nintendo's other handheld, the Game Boy Advance SP. The standard PlayStation 2 hardware was ranked at second place, and fourth place was taken by preorders for the upcoming redesigned version of the PS2. The Nintendo GameCube came in at fifth place.



this is how sony wants you to watch movies. I see it replacing plasma tvs eventually.

http://cancun-condorentals.com/sketch.jpg

By the way Im just being an ass !!! I just want to continue with this endless discussion, why dont make sketches about the portable wars !!! itll be fun !!!

[mr_wowtrousers]

As far as I can see Sony has shown almost nothing but contempt for developers and gamers alike since the release of the original playstation. I wouldn't believe a single word of their hype until the finished product is on the shelves and the games are there. Oh wait, hardly anyone was given dev kits so their games aren't ready? Say it ain't so? Maybe it's because they are building Emotion Engine^2 so that the PSP will be able to hug us? Or perhaps a battery that lasts longer than an hour . . . or perhaps (insert whatever).

I am not a nintendo/sony/whatever fan, but Sony seems to think they can do no wrong, that people will just buy whatever they put out. Seems a few other video game companies used to act like that as well . . .

PSP is big, it's expensive and if it is anything like the PS/PS2 it will play half-decent games and the other "functions" will be tacked on and almost useless. At least the DS shows some effort at innovation.

[danydrunk]

I am not a nintendo/sony/whatever fan, but Sony seems to think they can do no wrong, that people will just buy whatever they put out. Seems a few other video game companies used to act like that as well . . .

.

thats exactly what I believe, Sony and people could be saying, hey after two succesfull consoles nobody can stop us !!! and as you said, other game company used to think like that. It may succeed, but it is also a posibility that it may not. I appreciatte nintendo effort in trying to come up with something new

[MisterE]

Hey rocky, no need to get angry !! jeeje, Im just trying to come with my evidence to defend my client. I know there will be rehashes for both consoles, but it is still strange for me why you are saying that the ds has more rehashes?

from the 12 launch titles, I believe 3 are totally new (note that we are not discussing if they appeal or not to you):

Spiderman ds (design exclusively for the ds)
sprung ( a dating simulator from ubisoft)
project rub (weird game by sega)
Nah, I'm not angry at all. I just find it amusing you pointed out ONE direct port from PS2-to-PSP (Samurai Warriors), and you expect me to think the world is coming to an end because of one port. Not to mention it's a crappy game I don't care about :rolleyes: .
#2. NOWHERE, nowhere did I say the DS has more rehashes. This is, in fact, what I said:

Again, want ports (or rather, older, rehashes)? Why don't you list yourself some of the games coming out for the DS instead of staying here to bash the PSP.
Which is funny in itself, because you didn't list any ports.....obviously because if you did list them, your post would have been THAT much longer, no? LOL j/k!


This is the recent news, nothing out of the ordinary but ds will probably sell very well in japan.
1. Key words there,"In Japan!"
2. Notice it is 3rd, behind the Sony PS2 at #2. :)


this is how sony wants you to watch movies. I see it replacing plasma tvs eventually.
ROFL! :D That image is hilarious!

[arquebus]

I seriously doubt the PSP is going to retail for more than $150. The game console companys know the money is made by game licences and sell all the consoles at the minimum legal price.

[mr_wowtrousers]

If the PSP comes out and retails for USD$150, I will:

a) eat my hat; and
2) buy one ASAP.

I really can't see how they will sell it for that and not take a huge dive on costs.

There is no "legal minimum price". If Sony (or any manufacturer) wanted to sell their console for $5.00 they could do it. It would be financial suicide (or would it), so they don't.

Consoles don't come out at their final price. Remember the original Playstation? I recall it's initial price in Australia was something like $500. The PS2 came out at over $700. You have to cover *some* costs initially as user uptake increase. Of course, eventually the PSone was being sold for $6 more than the wholesale price (I worked for a games store, so knew you really made NO money on them in the later stages of the sales cycle).

In any event, it will be very interesting to see the PSP up close and personal. I, for one, don't really want my portable gaming to be a "one stop shop" as it will just doing everything not particularly well. As for paying top dollar for a small screen version of the exact same game I can play in my living room, what's the point?

Remember this:

Convergence and video games hardware don't play well together.

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