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thethule
10-08-2004, 01:07 PM
Hello all,


I have been reading the posts regarding the Matrox Parhelia. The call seems to be "bad 3d, great video performance". So here is my question. I do a lot of 3d and comping. I need a reasonably good 3d card as well as absolutely needing (i cant do without any longer) a 3rd tv monitor output. As far as i can tell, the parhelia is the only card that does this. Now, i know that i can add a second card to a pci slot for vga output, but here are my questions. The parhelia automatically shows your After Effects and Combustion outputs on the monitor, it seems ot be geared for that and works beautifully, so:

- Will, a second PCI card do the same?
- What kind of card are we looking at? Name-wise, can you give an example?
- Is there any other alternative to the Parhelia with triple output?


I know that this topic has been posted countless times, but there dont seem to be any answers. What kind of second card would i run? Like a Matrox 450 an then just use the DVI-analog converter to output to screen. Great, but will that work in after effects? I want to see ONLY my output, not palettes etc...


Hopefully any answers to this thread will help everyone else in my situation. The Matrox Parhelia 256MB 512 is looking like my only option at the moment, but i dont want to spend £350 on a bad card.


Thanks


Marc

imashination
10-08-2004, 01:46 PM
- Will, a second PCI card do the same?
- What kind of card are we looking at? Name-wise, can you give an example?
- Is there any other alternative to the Parhelia with triple output?


Yes
Any
Not really, nothing that performs much faster than the parhelia anyway

I don't think you realise just how slow the parhelia is, its REALLY slow.

lots
10-08-2004, 02:35 PM
Though, there is a line of quadros that can run 8 monitors... but, I bet thier 3D ability is somewhat limited. Taken from the fact they're PCI based ;)

pokoy
10-08-2004, 04:11 PM
the greatest advantage of matrox-cards is their superior video output quality. when you´re working a lot with video and fx-progs like combustion and ae, then go for parhelia. you´ll have the best quality available even at highest resolution. when you´re working with 3d, but don´t need 100 fps in full resoultion, then go for it too. i assume you don´t buy this card only for playing 3d-games.

i´ve personally seen some fast ati and nvidias which had a horrible signal quality. they aren´t made for people that work for hours at high-res. keep that in mind.

thethule
10-08-2004, 04:43 PM
the greatest advantage of matrox-cards is their superior video output quality. when you´re working a lot with video and fx-progs like combustion and ae, then go for parhelia. you´ll have the best quality available even at highest resolution. when you´re working with 3d, but don´t need 100 fps in full resoultion, then go for it too. i assume you don´t buy this card only for playing 3d-games.

i´ve personally seen some fast ati and nvidias which had a horrible signal quality. they aren´t made for people that work for hours at high-res. keep that in mind
Pokoy, I agree, their video output is superb. It's a real dilemma, because i suppose i do as much after effects and combution as 3d, and the 3d that i DO do tends not to be huge million poly scenes. And im definately not interested in its gaming potential. So, im thinking that the 256MB version of the parhelia will suffice. I just really dont see what other choice there is. For me, i dont like the idea of installing another video card, i need a stable system to see me through 18 hour stretches and 2 video cards is asking for trouble i think. PLus, being PCI based means they will be inherently slower than their AGP versions. If it wasnt so much money (£400) then i wouldnt mind. Its not even that expensive, but when you hear so many negative comments, you dont want to shell out. If it had gotten rave reviews across the board, then id snap one up in a second. Hmmmm, hard choice.
Also, i like the fact that it is designed to work with AE, C* and 3dsmax, all of which i use.

I don't think you realise just how slow the parhelia is, its REALLY slow.
imashination, can i ask, how is it slow? Viewport performance? Or were you talking about gaming? If not, what 3d program did you try it in and was it the 128Mb version or the 256? Sorry for all the question.


Regards,



Marc

imashination
10-08-2004, 06:31 PM
the greatest advantage of matrox-cards is their superior video output quality. when you´re working a lot with video and fx-progs like combustion and ae, then go for parhelia. you´ll have the best quality available even at highest resolution. when you´re working with 3d, but don´t need 100 fps in full resoultion, then go for it too. i assume you don´t buy this card only for playing 3d-games.

i´ve personally seen some fast ati and nvidias which had a horrible signal quality. they aren´t made for people that work for hours at high-res. keep that in mind.

The benefit of matrox USED to be their superior output quality, this hasn't been true for the past 4 or so years. If you're sensible then youll be using DVI anyway, so signal quality is a non-issue.

imashination
10-08-2004, 06:36 PM
imashination, can i ask, how is it slow? Viewport performance? Or were you talking about gaming? If not, what 3d program did you try it in and was it the 128Mb version or the 256? Sorry for all the question.


Viewport performance and gaming frame rates tend to go hand in hand. With 3d software the parhelia is just slow, its about the speed of a geforce/quadro 2 card. Its 3d features are there just so it can claim it does 3d, they cannot be used in any realistic way.

The parhelia is made almost exclusively for the fact that it does 3 outputs, that is its only real feature. Plus last time I checked, it can only do 3 analogue outputs, not 3 DVI at the same time. Personally I would go with a standard 3d card of your choice and then get a cheap pci card for the third screen, the speed of this card isnt important as you're only using it for the video playback, which any gfx can handle.

Alternatively I would consider waiting for the dual linked pci express cards which allow 4 dvi outputs at once.

Srek
10-08-2004, 08:57 PM
I got pretty decent OGL speed with a quadro FX 700 PCI next to a FX2000 AGP.
This was using all 4 DVI outputs to create a single large desktop with CINEMA 4D.
impossible to work with (simply to large) but a lot of fun ;)
The over all speed did nearly match that of the quadro FX 700 alone which was pretty ok.
For comparison, the OGL HL result for a Quadro FX 3000 in the same system is about 500 points or 19% better. For video and games this will be slower since the PCI bus will not allow for datatransfer as fast as AGP can.

Cheers
Srek

CINEBENCH 2003 v1
****************************************************

Tester : Bjoern

Processor : P4 Northwood
MHz : 3000
Number of CPUs : 2
Operating System : XP Pro SP1

Graphics Card : Quadro FX 700
Resolution : <fill this out>
Color Depth : <fill this out>

****************************************************

Rendering (Single CPU): 302 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 358 CB-CPU

Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.19

Shading (CINEMA 4D) : 316 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Software Lighting) : 1425 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Hardware Lighting) : 2657 CB-GFX

OpenGL Speedup: 8.41

****************************************************

evanfotis
10-08-2004, 11:11 PM
I need a reasonably good 3d card as well as absolutely needing (i cant do without any longer) a 3rd tv monitor output.
I want to see ONLY my output, not palettes etc...

Do you need an analogue rgb out monitor or a pc monitor?
From what I understand the former, to view in a realworld monitor your renderings, AE comps etc.
Use a decent dual head vga card and through firewire, if you have a dvcam, you can send the image to an rgb monitor, use the plug in Echofire for AE, PS, to output your comps to the monitor. Also you might think of decklink sd for outputing signal to analogue.

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