Rkhon
10-08-2004, 06:12 AM
New announcement stating that the WoW open beta signups will be available, to North America, in the days ahead...stay tuned.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/
View Full Version : World of Warcraft: Open Beta Soon
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T Bomb
10-08-2004, 05:11 PM
Ehh... I've had the beta for awhile now... :D (ducks under his desk)
Snej
10-08-2004, 07:51 PM
Same here:thumbsup:
HapZungLam
10-08-2004, 08:07 PM
I wonder why do they make so many phases of beta test? Are they testing the server and stuff? I thought they had the beta test up at the beginning of the year already right?
CelticArtist
10-08-2004, 08:09 PM
woohoo, there goes any last vestiges of a life i've had lately :D
noisewar
10-08-2004, 08:24 PM
woohoo, there goes any last vestiges of a life i've had lately :D
You better believe it! Can't wait for all the new folks to come in and start their new mages...
Mmmm... maaaage... braaaaainzzz....
-MadMageEater
You better believe it! Can't wait for all the new folks to come in and start their new mages...
Mmmm... maaaage... braaaaainzzz....
-MadMageEater
ambient-whisper
10-08-2004, 08:33 PM
I wonder why do they make so many phases of beta test? Are they testing the server and stuff? I thought they had the beta test up at the beginning of the year already right?
because the beta wasnt meant to test servers. they had separate tests for that. the beta servers are meant as a way to balance the game, and test out things that blizzard is working on. see what works. what doesnt. etc.
because the beta wasnt meant to test servers. they had separate tests for that. the beta servers are meant as a way to balance the game, and test out things that blizzard is working on. see what works. what doesnt. etc.
Spankspeople
10-08-2004, 08:45 PM
Basically the open beta is so that they can get as many people on their servers as possible to see just what they can handle. The stress test did this as well, but not quite to the extent that an open beta would have.
Also, open beta means that the game itself will be out soon. I'd say this lasts a few weeks and we get a going gold announcement, like with Diablo 2.
Can't wait to get back into that... I miss my stress test priest...
Also, open beta means that the game itself will be out soon. I'd say this lasts a few weeks and we get a going gold announcement, like with Diablo 2.
Can't wait to get back into that... I miss my stress test priest...
Paul-Angelo
10-08-2004, 11:21 PM
Also the open beta is great for getting the most people hooked on the game. It's a way to try out the game without it costing you any money. Usually when these massively multiplayer online games go live they give you the first month free but you still have to buy the game at the stores for about $29-49. So that means less people are willing to take a chance on spending the money to decide later they didn't like the game.
Projectkmo
10-09-2004, 01:12 AM
As a recovering EQ-aholic.....been sober for over a year...and having played virtually every MMORPG released......I am looking forward to WoW.
I have a friend in Beta..and I participated in the week long StressTest. While EQ2 is on the way.....I think I'll be going to WoW. Its not the most visually stunning game...IE High Poly etc...but the Art is amazing and because its not super high poly like EQ2....you wont need a top of the line machine to run WoW...and to Play WoW in the midst of a hundered players or more....no much lag.
I cant wait! The Stress Test alone killed my intentions of entering the Avalanch FX Contest..l..LOL
I have a friend in Beta..and I participated in the week long StressTest. While EQ2 is on the way.....I think I'll be going to WoW. Its not the most visually stunning game...IE High Poly etc...but the Art is amazing and because its not super high poly like EQ2....you wont need a top of the line machine to run WoW...and to Play WoW in the midst of a hundered players or more....no much lag.
I cant wait! The Stress Test alone killed my intentions of entering the Avalanch FX Contest..l..LOL
gigantor
10-09-2004, 01:36 AM
This game pales in comparison to original EQ.
Its pretty and all ,but the gameplay is just not there.Blizzard has grossley underestimated there user base abilities to rip through content.
Its pretty and all ,but the gameplay is just not there.Blizzard has grossley underestimated there user base abilities to rip through content.
Geta-Ve
10-09-2004, 02:21 AM
he gameplay is just not there
ok, firstly i have to say im not sure if my opinion on what you said is because im pretty big blizz fan or because i genuinly believe it.. buuut i dont agree with that at all, and feel that its a pretty mildly based argument.
Like what do you have to back up this theory? considering any review you read (3+ months back included) have said wow has been ready for a long time...
I am in the second phase of the beta and all I can say is im seriously impressed with everything that ive encountered and dealth with. The gameplay seems very refined and well balanced.. to me at least.. although im not hardcore so I shouldnt speak about balance issues ;) but i mean i really dont know how you can say the gameplay lacks when they have had pretty much a 1 year beta and probably a year before that of alpha and what not.. believe it or not they do listen to their community, and they do have actual hard proof evidence of what works and what doesnt...
come on man, you actually think blizzard doesnt know what works... theres no bad blizzard game...(pretty much :p)
ok, firstly i have to say im not sure if my opinion on what you said is because im pretty big blizz fan or because i genuinly believe it.. buuut i dont agree with that at all, and feel that its a pretty mildly based argument.
Like what do you have to back up this theory? considering any review you read (3+ months back included) have said wow has been ready for a long time...
I am in the second phase of the beta and all I can say is im seriously impressed with everything that ive encountered and dealth with. The gameplay seems very refined and well balanced.. to me at least.. although im not hardcore so I shouldnt speak about balance issues ;) but i mean i really dont know how you can say the gameplay lacks when they have had pretty much a 1 year beta and probably a year before that of alpha and what not.. believe it or not they do listen to their community, and they do have actual hard proof evidence of what works and what doesnt...
come on man, you actually think blizzard doesnt know what works... theres no bad blizzard game...(pretty much :p)
gigantor
10-09-2004, 02:41 AM
ok, Like what do you have to back up this theory? considering any review you read (3+ months back included) have said wow has been ready for a long time...
'
/Nerd mode on
I've been in WoW beta for awhile now only because the gameing group I belong to for 10 years have people working for Blizzard in it ,and alot of the people in that group want to play WoW.
The groups split 50/50 right now. most of the people ,like myself think its a dumbed down EQ with some DAOC elements and will not play it on release. The rest of the group agrees its a pretty weak game,but its better then anything else out there (which is not saying much).
I've gotten over the fact that the time of the PowerMud is over, unless Sigal comes out with another BomB with Vanguard, the days of me onling gaming are pretty much done.
The general public will probly love this game its faierly easy ,and theres not much depth to it.For the rest of us Mudders, its just time to move on and get a new hobby.
Just for Reference I also won the stresstest just for kicks..
The way to make a good MMorpg is to scale you're user base off the powergamers , to hide as much information from the players as possible,to stand true to your inital vision of the game ,and not cowtow to every lame suggestion by you're user base, and to finnaly protect youreself from all the massive cheating/hacking/exploting.
Make it a world worth adventuring in ,and make it hard as hell so when you acutely accomplish something in the game its that much sweeter.Thats the hook my friend, thats what keeps em coming back for more.
Wow has none of this..Its just a massive solo fest. It might as well be a singal player game.
I have no doubt that WoW will sell through the roof,but IMHO profit doesn't equal quality, or good gameplay.
On the Graphics side its fantastic looking tho.
'
/Nerd mode on
I've been in WoW beta for awhile now only because the gameing group I belong to for 10 years have people working for Blizzard in it ,and alot of the people in that group want to play WoW.
The groups split 50/50 right now. most of the people ,like myself think its a dumbed down EQ with some DAOC elements and will not play it on release. The rest of the group agrees its a pretty weak game,but its better then anything else out there (which is not saying much).
I've gotten over the fact that the time of the PowerMud is over, unless Sigal comes out with another BomB with Vanguard, the days of me onling gaming are pretty much done.
The general public will probly love this game its faierly easy ,and theres not much depth to it.For the rest of us Mudders, its just time to move on and get a new hobby.
Just for Reference I also won the stresstest just for kicks..
The way to make a good MMorpg is to scale you're user base off the powergamers , to hide as much information from the players as possible,to stand true to your inital vision of the game ,and not cowtow to every lame suggestion by you're user base, and to finnaly protect youreself from all the massive cheating/hacking/exploting.
Make it a world worth adventuring in ,and make it hard as hell so when you acutely accomplish something in the game its that much sweeter.Thats the hook my friend, thats what keeps em coming back for more.
Wow has none of this..Its just a massive solo fest. It might as well be a singal player game.
I have no doubt that WoW will sell through the roof,but IMHO profit doesn't equal quality, or good gameplay.
On the Graphics side its fantastic looking tho.
CIM
10-09-2004, 03:03 AM
This game pales in comparison to original EQ.
Its pretty and all ,but the gameplay is just not there.Blizzard has grossley underestimated there user base abilities to rip through content.
Ah, so you're saying that a MMORPG can only be good if it makes you spend a month killing the same exact monsters to achieve another level (EQ)? :rolleyes: I played EQ, and didn't find it fun at all (not all that good either).
Its pretty and all ,but the gameplay is just not there.Blizzard has grossley underestimated there user base abilities to rip through content.
Ah, so you're saying that a MMORPG can only be good if it makes you spend a month killing the same exact monsters to achieve another level (EQ)? :rolleyes: I played EQ, and didn't find it fun at all (not all that good either).
gigantor
10-09-2004, 03:07 AM
Let me ask you a question why do you even want to play a massive multiplayer game?
You're type of playing style would adhere better to a world with less people int it with more of a storyline.
Why does everything have to be massive, when a game promotes so much solo interaction.
O and if you hate the leveling Treadmill, you're going to really hate WoW, heh.
The reason why a tough game like the original MuDS worked is because they gave you some connection to you're character.If it takes you a month to get from 30 to 31 for example, imagine how much you would have learned about you're specific class,and how many people you would have met along the way. It makes you a more skillfull player, it gives you some pride in you're character,and it gives you a good gaming experience to tell storys about provided the game is rock solid content wise.
Otherwise why not just play a singal player role playing game, or a smaller 7 to 10 player game..that you can get a quick gaming fix off of .
I think Brad Mcquaid the creator of EQ had it right when he said he wanted his user base to start off with nothing (fig leaf and a stick) and to have a homecity where they could group up and meet people for the first few monthes . Then move on to greater things like slaying dragons or whatever after years of play, and to one day return to there homecity as heroes which would inspire other new players to do the same.
He likened it to the adventure the hobbits had in the Lord of the Rings, at the end they also came back to the shire after a long journey with new friends met along the way,and many magical equipment which allowed them to be heroes for there people.
These MMorpgs have lost sight of all of that, everythings a quick fix now,everything has to be fun,everybody wants to be the Hero. I guess people want Escapism from there normal lifes instead of a challenging game.Which is fine I guess, to each his own.
Me i've moved on, Thank god for Poker..heh
You're type of playing style would adhere better to a world with less people int it with more of a storyline.
Why does everything have to be massive, when a game promotes so much solo interaction.
O and if you hate the leveling Treadmill, you're going to really hate WoW, heh.
The reason why a tough game like the original MuDS worked is because they gave you some connection to you're character.If it takes you a month to get from 30 to 31 for example, imagine how much you would have learned about you're specific class,and how many people you would have met along the way. It makes you a more skillfull player, it gives you some pride in you're character,and it gives you a good gaming experience to tell storys about provided the game is rock solid content wise.
Otherwise why not just play a singal player role playing game, or a smaller 7 to 10 player game..that you can get a quick gaming fix off of .
I think Brad Mcquaid the creator of EQ had it right when he said he wanted his user base to start off with nothing (fig leaf and a stick) and to have a homecity where they could group up and meet people for the first few monthes . Then move on to greater things like slaying dragons or whatever after years of play, and to one day return to there homecity as heroes which would inspire other new players to do the same.
He likened it to the adventure the hobbits had in the Lord of the Rings, at the end they also came back to the shire after a long journey with new friends met along the way,and many magical equipment which allowed them to be heroes for there people.
These MMorpgs have lost sight of all of that, everythings a quick fix now,everything has to be fun,everybody wants to be the Hero. I guess people want Escapism from there normal lifes instead of a challenging game.Which is fine I guess, to each his own.
Me i've moved on, Thank god for Poker..heh
Spankspeople
10-09-2004, 04:31 AM
High poly counts and all the latest effects do not necessarily a pretty game make. EQ2 looks technically impressive, but visually uninteresting(my opinion, based on screenshots I've seen... Everything just looks so... generic), whereas WoW looks technically average, but has an amazing sense of style. I actually have a shot of the moon over some mountains outside of Ironforge just before sunset as my desktop because I thought it was so pretty.
World of WarCraft is decent proof that you don't need the highest poly models, or the shiniest pixel shaders, or normal mapping, or any of that high end stuff as long as you put a lot of work into making the game itself look nice.
EQ2 looks like it was made by a game development company, WoW looks like it was made by artists.
World of WarCraft is decent proof that you don't need the highest poly models, or the shiniest pixel shaders, or normal mapping, or any of that high end stuff as long as you put a lot of work into making the game itself look nice.
EQ2 looks like it was made by a game development company, WoW looks like it was made by artists.
Geta-Ve
10-09-2004, 05:38 AM
spank - well said
gig -
Make it a world worth adventuring in ,and make it hard as hell so when you acutely accomplish something in the game its that much sweeter.Thats the hook my friend, thats what keeps em coming back for more.
this is a really tough desision for one person such as me or you to make. but for a game company in the end the game has to sell, and there are a ton more casual gamers than hard core, you seem like the hardcore type. You know, most people that will play wow probably do have a life (god forbid) and dont have a month to level up one level, well at least I dont. And I can tell you with all honesty that I have no interesting in taking 3 times longer than the hard core crowd to do one thing..
obviously not everything should be as easy for my crowd, but you cant make the whole game that hard, if you did your population would decrease considerably and then you really would be playing a solo game.
Its just a massive solo fest. It might as well be a singal player game.
you must not have gotten to the higher levels? the many people ive talked to say that wow, in the higher levels, is pretty much all group action, that is if you want the better rewards. and man, its not like the game says you cant group for a mission, its you the user the finally decides when to group, so saying theres too much solo action is completely (well not completely) your fault.. its not exactly blizz's fault that you choose not to group..
I think Brad Mcquaid the creator of EQ had it right when he said he wanted his user base to start off with nothing (fig leaf and a stick) and to have a homecity where they could group up and meet people for the first few monthes . Then move on to greater things like slaying dragons or whatever after years of play, and to one day return to there homecity as heroes which would inspire other new players to do the same.
again your referring to the hard core crowd, how can the casual crowd possibly play this or any game for that matter for a year or even two? Why would you leave your biggest money makers out of the loop. it might be more "immersive" for the hard core crowd but in the end your not gonna make any money.. like i said before i dont have an infinite amount of time, all i wanna do is play for a few hours a day or every other day and feel like i have actually accomplished something.
perhaps a good way to go would be for blizz to set up a seperate server for all the hardcore freaks out there and have the game like 10 times harder or what not for you guys. thats the only viable option i see that would work.
Personally right now I quite enjoy playing wow, and what keeps me coming back is the eviroments. Im always excited to see a new enviroment or the great monuments placed around the world or the sites and stuff. thats what hooks me. because in wow the enviros really live up to the name of the game.
gig -
Make it a world worth adventuring in ,and make it hard as hell so when you acutely accomplish something in the game its that much sweeter.Thats the hook my friend, thats what keeps em coming back for more.
this is a really tough desision for one person such as me or you to make. but for a game company in the end the game has to sell, and there are a ton more casual gamers than hard core, you seem like the hardcore type. You know, most people that will play wow probably do have a life (god forbid) and dont have a month to level up one level, well at least I dont. And I can tell you with all honesty that I have no interesting in taking 3 times longer than the hard core crowd to do one thing..
obviously not everything should be as easy for my crowd, but you cant make the whole game that hard, if you did your population would decrease considerably and then you really would be playing a solo game.
Its just a massive solo fest. It might as well be a singal player game.
you must not have gotten to the higher levels? the many people ive talked to say that wow, in the higher levels, is pretty much all group action, that is if you want the better rewards. and man, its not like the game says you cant group for a mission, its you the user the finally decides when to group, so saying theres too much solo action is completely (well not completely) your fault.. its not exactly blizz's fault that you choose not to group..
I think Brad Mcquaid the creator of EQ had it right when he said he wanted his user base to start off with nothing (fig leaf and a stick) and to have a homecity where they could group up and meet people for the first few monthes . Then move on to greater things like slaying dragons or whatever after years of play, and to one day return to there homecity as heroes which would inspire other new players to do the same.
again your referring to the hard core crowd, how can the casual crowd possibly play this or any game for that matter for a year or even two? Why would you leave your biggest money makers out of the loop. it might be more "immersive" for the hard core crowd but in the end your not gonna make any money.. like i said before i dont have an infinite amount of time, all i wanna do is play for a few hours a day or every other day and feel like i have actually accomplished something.
perhaps a good way to go would be for blizz to set up a seperate server for all the hardcore freaks out there and have the game like 10 times harder or what not for you guys. thats the only viable option i see that would work.
Personally right now I quite enjoy playing wow, and what keeps me coming back is the eviroments. Im always excited to see a new enviroment or the great monuments placed around the world or the sites and stuff. thats what hooks me. because in wow the enviros really live up to the name of the game.
gigantor
10-09-2004, 06:34 AM
you must not have gotten to the higher levels? the many people ive talked to say that wow, in the higher levels, is pretty much all group action, that is if you want the better rewards. and man, its not like the game says you cant group for a mission, its you the user the finally decides when to group, so saying theres too much solo action is completely (well not completely) your fault.. its not exactly blizz's fault that you choose not to group..I don't want to get to deep into this other then to say Blizzard has made this game VERY group unfriendly, you're almost penalized for grouping in this game.Everybody Solos to the cap, then you camp a couple of things with you're guild and basicaly sit on you're arse because the end game is no existant.
Ive level capped more then one character every push,so yeah I've seen the end game many times unfortunately.
As for as the rest of you're post, I have absolutely no interest in a mudslinging war with you. If you want to stereotype every hardcoregamer as having no life,or a freak then thats you're opinion.Its all perspective.
When you say a game will not do well if it caters to the hardcore gamer. I think you forget that the most succesful video game of all time and still going strong to this day is "Everquest".
Now granted that game has also evolved over its 5 years to a very diffrent game then it was in the beggining.
The original game did cater to the powergamer ,and made it the success it is today.
Not only did it keep its playerbase,but it expanded it many times over.
Some would say the powergamers are the lifeblood of any MMorpg. The fact that blizzard has hired some of the most well known powergamers in EQ to work for them,should say something right there.
A game dedicated to the casual player will always fail,because people will get bored of it so quickly.If Mmorpg makers should learn anything is that you can never underestimate you're players devotion to devouring content,it is truely rabid.
I like to go back to my original question, why do you guys play these massive online rpg's? there is no possible way to finish them,you can't win them..why do you even care what the powergamer does. Is 1 to 20 any diffrent then 1 to 60? why not just play them from 1 to 20 with friends and pretend thats the whole game...
Maybe its just jealousy,who knows
I'll never understand why these companies want to penalize the powergamer tho ,that will never make sense to me. None have them have been as succesful as EQ.
like i said before i dont have an infinite amount of time, all i wanna do is play for a few hours a day or every other day and feel like i have actually accomplished something.
perhaps a good way to go would be for blizz to set up a seperate server for all the hardcore freaks out there and have the game like 10 times harder or what not for you guys. thats the only viable option i see that would work.Whats stopping you from doing that in any MMorpg? what can you really accomplish in a MMorpg? does that new sword you got meen anything special when it took you a grand total of 2 hours to get it,and everybody elese has one.
The funny thing is if Blizzard did make hardcore servers, I can guarantee those servers would overflow with people, because no one wants to feal like a gimp in any game ;)
Ive level capped more then one character every push,so yeah I've seen the end game many times unfortunately.
As for as the rest of you're post, I have absolutely no interest in a mudslinging war with you. If you want to stereotype every hardcoregamer as having no life,or a freak then thats you're opinion.Its all perspective.
When you say a game will not do well if it caters to the hardcore gamer. I think you forget that the most succesful video game of all time and still going strong to this day is "Everquest".
Now granted that game has also evolved over its 5 years to a very diffrent game then it was in the beggining.
The original game did cater to the powergamer ,and made it the success it is today.
Not only did it keep its playerbase,but it expanded it many times over.
Some would say the powergamers are the lifeblood of any MMorpg. The fact that blizzard has hired some of the most well known powergamers in EQ to work for them,should say something right there.
A game dedicated to the casual player will always fail,because people will get bored of it so quickly.If Mmorpg makers should learn anything is that you can never underestimate you're players devotion to devouring content,it is truely rabid.
I like to go back to my original question, why do you guys play these massive online rpg's? there is no possible way to finish them,you can't win them..why do you even care what the powergamer does. Is 1 to 20 any diffrent then 1 to 60? why not just play them from 1 to 20 with friends and pretend thats the whole game...
Maybe its just jealousy,who knows
I'll never understand why these companies want to penalize the powergamer tho ,that will never make sense to me. None have them have been as succesful as EQ.
like i said before i dont have an infinite amount of time, all i wanna do is play for a few hours a day or every other day and feel like i have actually accomplished something.
perhaps a good way to go would be for blizz to set up a seperate server for all the hardcore freaks out there and have the game like 10 times harder or what not for you guys. thats the only viable option i see that would work.Whats stopping you from doing that in any MMorpg? what can you really accomplish in a MMorpg? does that new sword you got meen anything special when it took you a grand total of 2 hours to get it,and everybody elese has one.
The funny thing is if Blizzard did make hardcore servers, I can guarantee those servers would overflow with people, because no one wants to feal like a gimp in any game ;)
Frank Lake
10-09-2004, 07:04 AM
this is a really tough desision for one person such as me or you to make. but for a game company in the end the game has to sell,
Yep it IS all about the money. Has been for decades and no amount of psuodebabble will change it either!
and there are a ton more casual gamers than hard core,
Yes that's true.
But that's why developers made DIFFICULTLY SETTINGS!!! :lightbulb So ALL types of players could play! Even when it comes too RPG's you ALWAYS apply a gradient difficulty system to the environs in lue of EASY,MEDIUM,HARD settings. Unfortunatly both time and money have begun to erase the developers abilities to really truely think out what type of 'depth' the game should end up having(yes there is more too it but it's not worth hashing out). And for ONLINE games to survive they inherently NEED massive depth.
Yep it IS all about the money. Has been for decades and no amount of psuodebabble will change it either!
and there are a ton more casual gamers than hard core,
Yes that's true.
But that's why developers made DIFFICULTLY SETTINGS!!! :lightbulb So ALL types of players could play! Even when it comes too RPG's you ALWAYS apply a gradient difficulty system to the environs in lue of EASY,MEDIUM,HARD settings. Unfortunatly both time and money have begun to erase the developers abilities to really truely think out what type of 'depth' the game should end up having(yes there is more too it but it's not worth hashing out). And for ONLINE games to survive they inherently NEED massive depth.
Geta-Ve
10-09-2004, 08:48 AM
A game dedicated to the casual player will always fail,because people will get bored of it so quickly so what your saying is that wow will fail? because if im reading your posts correctly that is all wow is... a casual mmo game..
As for as the rest of you're post, I have absolutely no interest in a mudslinging war with you. If you want to stereotype every hardcoregamer as having no life,or a freak then thats you're opinion.Its all perspective. I dont understand where you think Im mudslinging.. I wasnt using those terms in a negetive way...
Maybe its just jealousy,who knows now whos mudslinging? ;)
I like to go back to my original question, why do you guys play these massive online rpg's? If you go back to my other post you will find ive answered that very question
there is no possible way to finish them,you can't win them..why do you even care what the powergamer does well, according to you WoW is very easy, so thers a very high chance of me "winning" as you would call it, and or finish it.
Is 1 to 20 any diffrent then 1 to 60? why not just play them from 1 to 20 with friends and pretend thats the whole game... so your saying your fine with playing your character up to level 20? because thats what your telling me. I dont understand why me, the casual gamer cant log on whenever Im able and slowly but surely level up. Why do I need to do it in 40 days or whatever..
None have them have been as succesful as EQ. your giving EQ way to much credit ;)
I'll never understand why these companies want to penalize the powergamer tho ,that will never make sense to me as I said before, companies need to make money, and the money is with the casual gamer. for reasons why just read previous posts.
does that new sword you got meen anything special when it took you a grand total of 2 hours to get it,and everybody elese has one. so being at the level cap is something special? when there are a ton of other ppl there too? there will always be other people with the same equipment as you and what not, what your asking is the impossible, at least with todays tech.
a few posts back you said..
I guess people want Escapism from there normal lifes instead of a challenging game.Which is fine I guess, to each his own. which makes me wonder why you play games at all.. if you want a challenging game go get yourself puzzlefighter, mmo's are made for the exact reason you dont want them.. escapism..
you want to be able to be a hero to the people etc etc, well thats never gonna happen in an mmo, your never gonna be number one, there will always be someone else just as good, someone else thats done everything you have, someone else that has all the equipment you do. Your not special to any other gamer, no one looks up to you, and no one is gonna be cheering your name because you have killed the very last boss or whatever, or that you have the ultimate armor, no one cares, the fact is if anyone really wants to, they can obtain the exact same level that you are at, they can get the same equipment you have and they can kill the very last boss as well. An mmo will always be a solo experience in the end, you might as well save yourself the time and stop playing now, unless of course theres other reasons you play?
As for as the rest of you're post, I have absolutely no interest in a mudslinging war with you. If you want to stereotype every hardcoregamer as having no life,or a freak then thats you're opinion.Its all perspective. I dont understand where you think Im mudslinging.. I wasnt using those terms in a negetive way...
Maybe its just jealousy,who knows now whos mudslinging? ;)
I like to go back to my original question, why do you guys play these massive online rpg's? If you go back to my other post you will find ive answered that very question
there is no possible way to finish them,you can't win them..why do you even care what the powergamer does well, according to you WoW is very easy, so thers a very high chance of me "winning" as you would call it, and or finish it.
Is 1 to 20 any diffrent then 1 to 60? why not just play them from 1 to 20 with friends and pretend thats the whole game... so your saying your fine with playing your character up to level 20? because thats what your telling me. I dont understand why me, the casual gamer cant log on whenever Im able and slowly but surely level up. Why do I need to do it in 40 days or whatever..
None have them have been as succesful as EQ. your giving EQ way to much credit ;)
I'll never understand why these companies want to penalize the powergamer tho ,that will never make sense to me as I said before, companies need to make money, and the money is with the casual gamer. for reasons why just read previous posts.
does that new sword you got meen anything special when it took you a grand total of 2 hours to get it,and everybody elese has one. so being at the level cap is something special? when there are a ton of other ppl there too? there will always be other people with the same equipment as you and what not, what your asking is the impossible, at least with todays tech.
a few posts back you said..
I guess people want Escapism from there normal lifes instead of a challenging game.Which is fine I guess, to each his own. which makes me wonder why you play games at all.. if you want a challenging game go get yourself puzzlefighter, mmo's are made for the exact reason you dont want them.. escapism..
you want to be able to be a hero to the people etc etc, well thats never gonna happen in an mmo, your never gonna be number one, there will always be someone else just as good, someone else thats done everything you have, someone else that has all the equipment you do. Your not special to any other gamer, no one looks up to you, and no one is gonna be cheering your name because you have killed the very last boss or whatever, or that you have the ultimate armor, no one cares, the fact is if anyone really wants to, they can obtain the exact same level that you are at, they can get the same equipment you have and they can kill the very last boss as well. An mmo will always be a solo experience in the end, you might as well save yourself the time and stop playing now, unless of course theres other reasons you play?
Projectkmo
10-09-2004, 09:56 AM
I will chime in again a little...
One thing I liked very much about EQ...and it has been mentioned here....was the Feeling of accomplishment that could be had.....While much of EQ was only doable if you were in a good guild....it was one of the best gaming exp I've had when we would have a succsessfull raid in ToV or then the PoP etc...it was awesome to see 30-50 people working together to tear through some nasty Mob! Sure there were deaths...and I died a lot too...usualy played my Rogue.....but it was a lot of fun.
I'm not so sure I've seen a lot of these encounters in WoW yet......and by many acounts...its not always easy to find a group...though the LFG tools ingame are gonna be re-worked. And....the instances and Group/Raid thing is still being tweaked in WoW. There is still plenty of high lvl content that is not even available in Beta yet.
WoW will however lend itself to people like my roomate...who would come home from work to play FF11...and spend an hour LFG....if none of his friends were on....as he found it difficult to do much a lone in FF11... WoW however is delivering on the Solo end...that much is fo sure. It seems any class can solo...likely to 60 and higher....though some will solo better than others.
I will def have to play WoW once it goes retail if only to give it the shot it deserves.....as in any MMORPG there will be updates....content added...etc...and the ever present NERFing....but its an artistically beautiful game and its been fun so far. Weather it will have all the things I've come to like about so many other MMORPGS...that remains to be seen....will it have all the things I wish other MMORPGs had..again time will tell. But Blizzard has never failed me yet.......they've earned my loyalty.
One thing I liked very much about EQ...and it has been mentioned here....was the Feeling of accomplishment that could be had.....While much of EQ was only doable if you were in a good guild....it was one of the best gaming exp I've had when we would have a succsessfull raid in ToV or then the PoP etc...it was awesome to see 30-50 people working together to tear through some nasty Mob! Sure there were deaths...and I died a lot too...usualy played my Rogue.....but it was a lot of fun.
I'm not so sure I've seen a lot of these encounters in WoW yet......and by many acounts...its not always easy to find a group...though the LFG tools ingame are gonna be re-worked. And....the instances and Group/Raid thing is still being tweaked in WoW. There is still plenty of high lvl content that is not even available in Beta yet.
WoW will however lend itself to people like my roomate...who would come home from work to play FF11...and spend an hour LFG....if none of his friends were on....as he found it difficult to do much a lone in FF11... WoW however is delivering on the Solo end...that much is fo sure. It seems any class can solo...likely to 60 and higher....though some will solo better than others.
I will def have to play WoW once it goes retail if only to give it the shot it deserves.....as in any MMORPG there will be updates....content added...etc...and the ever present NERFing....but its an artistically beautiful game and its been fun so far. Weather it will have all the things I've come to like about so many other MMORPGS...that remains to be seen....will it have all the things I wish other MMORPGs had..again time will tell. But Blizzard has never failed me yet.......they've earned my loyalty.
CIM
10-09-2004, 11:23 AM
I don't want to get to deep into this other then to say Blizzard has made this game VERY group unfriendly, you're almost penalized for grouping in this game.Everybody Solos to the cap, then you camp a couple of things with you're guild and basicaly sit on you're arse because the end game is no existant.
Ive level capped more then one character every push,so yeah I've seen the end game many times unfortunately.
As for as the rest of you're post, I have absolutely no interest in a mudslinging war with you. If you want to stereotype every hardcoregamer as having no life,or a freak then thats you're opinion.Its all perspective.
When you say a game will not do well if it caters to the hardcore gamer. I think you forget that the most succesful video game of all time and still going strong to this day is "Everquest".
Now granted that game has also evolved over its 5 years to a very diffrent game then it was in the beggining.
The original game did cater to the powergamer ,and made it the success it is today.
Not only did it keep its playerbase,but it expanded it many times over.
Some would say the powergamers are the lifeblood of any MMorpg. The fact that blizzard has hired some of the most well known powergamers in EQ to work for them,should say something right there.
A game dedicated to the casual player will always fail,because people will get bored of it so quickly.If Mmorpg makers should learn anything is that you can never underestimate you're players devotion to devouring content,it is truely rabid.
I like to go back to my original question, why do you guys play these massive online rpg's? there is no possible way to finish them,you can't win them..why do you even care what the powergamer does. Is 1 to 20 any diffrent then 1 to 60? why not just play them from 1 to 20 with friends and pretend thats the whole game...
Maybe its just jealousy,who knows
I'll never understand why these companies want to penalize the powergamer tho ,that will never make sense to me. None have them have been as succesful as EQ.
Whats stopping you from doing that in any MMorpg? what can you really accomplish in a MMorpg? does that new sword you got meen anything special when it took you a grand total of 2 hours to get it,and everybody elese has one.
The funny thing is if Blizzard did make hardcore servers, I can guarantee those servers would overflow with people, because no one wants to feal like a gimp in any game ;)
You must be the poster boy for EQ fanatics everywhere. :bounce:
I'm not even going to touch most of the things you said, but as for WoW being group unfriendly: that's totally wrong. WoW, past level 15 or so, practically forces you to group for certain quests. Lets not forget about any PvP action requiring a group to possibly be effective.
Ive level capped more then one character every push,so yeah I've seen the end game many times unfortunately.
As for as the rest of you're post, I have absolutely no interest in a mudslinging war with you. If you want to stereotype every hardcoregamer as having no life,or a freak then thats you're opinion.Its all perspective.
When you say a game will not do well if it caters to the hardcore gamer. I think you forget that the most succesful video game of all time and still going strong to this day is "Everquest".
Now granted that game has also evolved over its 5 years to a very diffrent game then it was in the beggining.
The original game did cater to the powergamer ,and made it the success it is today.
Not only did it keep its playerbase,but it expanded it many times over.
Some would say the powergamers are the lifeblood of any MMorpg. The fact that blizzard has hired some of the most well known powergamers in EQ to work for them,should say something right there.
A game dedicated to the casual player will always fail,because people will get bored of it so quickly.If Mmorpg makers should learn anything is that you can never underestimate you're players devotion to devouring content,it is truely rabid.
I like to go back to my original question, why do you guys play these massive online rpg's? there is no possible way to finish them,you can't win them..why do you even care what the powergamer does. Is 1 to 20 any diffrent then 1 to 60? why not just play them from 1 to 20 with friends and pretend thats the whole game...
Maybe its just jealousy,who knows
I'll never understand why these companies want to penalize the powergamer tho ,that will never make sense to me. None have them have been as succesful as EQ.
Whats stopping you from doing that in any MMorpg? what can you really accomplish in a MMorpg? does that new sword you got meen anything special when it took you a grand total of 2 hours to get it,and everybody elese has one.
The funny thing is if Blizzard did make hardcore servers, I can guarantee those servers would overflow with people, because no one wants to feal like a gimp in any game ;)
You must be the poster boy for EQ fanatics everywhere. :bounce:
I'm not even going to touch most of the things you said, but as for WoW being group unfriendly: that's totally wrong. WoW, past level 15 or so, practically forces you to group for certain quests. Lets not forget about any PvP action requiring a group to possibly be effective.
Zeruel the 14th
10-09-2004, 11:26 AM
WoW is looking good...but i'll probably give it a miss like just about every other ORPG. I hate fantasy RPGs for the most part...with exceptions. I want my starship and trade routes damn it! And i want to upgrade my character with cool cybernetics (Meat? what meat?). None of this Character level BS. And why do i have start new characters? Why can't i take the same character and move into another area...people don't die, respawn and change careers...they learn new skills.
Ah well. One of these days they'll make cool (as in GOOD) non fantasy ORPGs. (I hate the MMORPG acronym...who was responsible for that crime of language?)
Ah well. One of these days they'll make cool (as in GOOD) non fantasy ORPGs. (I hate the MMORPG acronym...who was responsible for that crime of language?)
j00st81
10-09-2004, 01:32 PM
as a reply to the first poster, it's semi open beta, only for US residents :p
as for the pro powergamers... I don't think every mmorpg has to take account to the powergamers, the way blizzard handles it WoW will gain a wider audience in a more player friendly enviroment, and makes the moments you spend on WoW more fun.
At the moment I'm playing Lineage, and I'm sick of gaining 10% of my lvl per hour grinding the same mobs over and over, with no goal (quests or anything) Theres your basic powergaming game. On the other hand you have WoW wich offers 1000's of quests and sidequests, group dungeons and craft jobs. If powergamers will eat trough content more quickly in WoW then the casual gamer I won't feel sorry for them. WoW isn't a game to be rushed to the end as fast as possible. (I could make a nice comparison about drinking wine as it was a coke, but I think you get my point)
as for the pro powergamers... I don't think every mmorpg has to take account to the powergamers, the way blizzard handles it WoW will gain a wider audience in a more player friendly enviroment, and makes the moments you spend on WoW more fun.
At the moment I'm playing Lineage, and I'm sick of gaining 10% of my lvl per hour grinding the same mobs over and over, with no goal (quests or anything) Theres your basic powergaming game. On the other hand you have WoW wich offers 1000's of quests and sidequests, group dungeons and craft jobs. If powergamers will eat trough content more quickly in WoW then the casual gamer I won't feel sorry for them. WoW isn't a game to be rushed to the end as fast as possible. (I could make a nice comparison about drinking wine as it was a coke, but I think you get my point)
gigantor
10-09-2004, 01:44 PM
You must be the poster boy for EQ fanatics everywhere. :bounce:
I'm not even going to touch most of the things you said, but as for WoW being group unfriendly: that's totally wrong. WoW, past level 15 or so, practically forces you to group for certain quests. Lets not forget about any PvP action requiring a group to possibly be effective.Nah ,me and alot of other people just like Powermuds. We played them way before Eq came out. EQ is basicaly a Dikumud with a 3d graphic interface on top, versus just having text ingame.
So yes I am definately a fan of PowerMuds. If there was another MMorpg that I respected I would have used that as an example instead of EQ.
The evolved EQ as it is today holds no interest for me,and I wouldn't pay to play it.
Right now in the game it is far quicker to solo to the cap then to group or do quests to the cap.
Eventualy they may change that but for right now thats just how it is. Thats why the stresstester were able to get to over 40 in a such a little time.
If the stresstest proved anything, it was that a large majority of the client base is just trying to burn to the cap.Then they group up for the end game to fill out there equipment. You also do not have to PvP on the stock servers if you don't want to.
I'm not even going to touch most of the things you said, but as for WoW being group unfriendly: that's totally wrong. WoW, past level 15 or so, practically forces you to group for certain quests. Lets not forget about any PvP action requiring a group to possibly be effective.Nah ,me and alot of other people just like Powermuds. We played them way before Eq came out. EQ is basicaly a Dikumud with a 3d graphic interface on top, versus just having text ingame.
So yes I am definately a fan of PowerMuds. If there was another MMorpg that I respected I would have used that as an example instead of EQ.
The evolved EQ as it is today holds no interest for me,and I wouldn't pay to play it.
Right now in the game it is far quicker to solo to the cap then to group or do quests to the cap.
Eventualy they may change that but for right now thats just how it is. Thats why the stresstester were able to get to over 40 in a such a little time.
If the stresstest proved anything, it was that a large majority of the client base is just trying to burn to the cap.Then they group up for the end game to fill out there equipment. You also do not have to PvP on the stock servers if you don't want to.
Pufferfish
10-09-2004, 02:25 PM
I like more of the roleplaying side of mmorpg's. What I've heard of WoW, it surely ain't targeted for actual roleplayers so I guess WoW is only MMOG. I've heard so much bad things of the roleplaying side of it.
Well... most of the players just kill kill kill kill gain gain gain gain kill kill gain gain in any of the mmorpg's anyhow. Boring...
Well... most of the players just kill kill kill kill gain gain gain gain kill kill gain gain in any of the mmorpg's anyhow. Boring...
gigantor
10-09-2004, 02:57 PM
Geta-Ve I read you're first statement on that long post you made, and it only further proved to me you're not even taking the time to read my posts.
The first thing you say is do I think WoW will fail, when In my first post and countless posts afterwords I said WoW would be a highly succesful game.
I have no doubt that WoW will sell through the roof an excerpt from my first post.
Maybe you thought since I said all casual player games would fail I was reffering to WoW.
I wasn't,I was more or less reffering to some other titles that have tanked in the past
There is a significant endgame in the works for WoW that I was testing with my guild until I decided to quit .
For me WoW is not that challenging or deep,but I couldn't honestly say its totaly marketed to the casual gamer.
well, according to you WoW is very easy, so thers a very high chance of me "winning" as you would call it, and or finish it.Yeah for me winning the game is being in the best guild,and being the first do everything /shrug.
I'm competitive when it comes to things I like.
Thats how I personaly like to play the game, but I know deep down theres no way to beat a game like this because its designed to go on forever, or at least until people get bored of playing it.
For you winning a MMorpg may be far diffrent, its not going to coincide with my opinion. You're not the type of player that will do anything first,and you will not be in the best guild in the game because you don't want to put the extra legwork in, or that type of playing style holds no interest for you. Thats fine tho..
Its all about mutual respect for diffrent playings tyles in these type of sandbox worlds. I don't look down on casual gamers ,because there having fun doing what they do.
so your saying your fine with playing your character up to level 20? because thats what your telling me. I dont understand why me, the casual gamer cant log on whenever Im able and slowly but surely level up. Why do I need to do it in 40 days or whatever..You can do whatever you want as slow as you want, thats the beauty of these games.
My point is stop worrying so much about what the other players are doing in the game.
You're not going to catch up to them,there probly not even people you want to have a gameing experience with because there views and playstyles are so diffrent from yours.
your giving EQ way to much creditcool, over a 6 year period what game has made more money then EQ? what MMorpg has more exspansion packs, or a bigger franchise?
I honestly can't think of a single title that has even come close.
as I said before, companies need to make money, and the money is with the casual gamer. for reasons why just read previous posts.Really if thats a fact why has EQ and FFXI done so well ,and why have alot of the more casual gamers MMorpg's failed so miserably.
so being at the level cap is something special? when there are a ton of other ppl there too? there will always be other people with the same equipment as you and what not, what your asking is the impossible, at least with todays tech.I'm not sure what you're saying here,I was talking about risk versus reward..and you're reffering to endgame dynamics.
which makes me wonder why you play games at all.. if you want a challenging game go get yourself puzzlefighter, mmo's are made for the exact reason you dont want them.. escapism..Thats funny I thought they were still games.I play games because I like games. I'm not trying to escape anything in my real life.
MMorpg's are still games at there core,otherwise they would just be interactive chat rooms with avatars,and there are some MMO's out there like that.
WoW is most definately designed to be a game, not a tool for escapism.If it was it would encourage more roleplaying aspects..
you want to be able to be a hero to the people etc etc, well thats never gonna happen in an mmo, your never gonna be number one, there will always be someone else just as good, someone else thats done everything you have, someone else that has all the equipment you do. Your not special to any other gamer, no one looks up to you, and no one is gonna be cheering your name because you have killed the very last boss or whatever, or that you have the ultimate armor, no one cares,Since I compete in these games I see it diffrent then you. When my guild gets the first kill serverwide in these type of games on a Boss that can't be taken away from us.For the other people competing with us ,we've won.We were there first to do it.
You say Noone care,but what you should really says is you personally don't care.
If noone cared why Is the top guild server boards on these games absolutely swamped with people checking out there killshots on the first page,and following there every move through these games.
Its been proven that people acutely do care quite abit,its akin to watching you're city top sports team.
the fact is if anyone really wants to, they can obtain the exact same level that you are at, they can get the same equipment you have and they can kill the very last boss as well.They may be true, but if there competing with me they may not be the first people to get said equipment,they might not be the first person to experience the endgame, they may never be in the best guild from a competitive standpoint.
An mmo will always be a solo experience in the end, you might as well save yourself the time and stop playing now, unless of course theres other reasons you play?I guess you're new to these type of games, every game i ever played has been guild based. All the endgame being based of guilds of large amounts of people working togtther to acomplish something.
Also, i've said many times that Ive recently quit playing retail MMorpg's because I don't find these type of games challenging anymore. Poker holds my interest now.
I'll ocasionaly do some testing work,because I enjoy breaking other peoples Game engines,and I'm good at it.
The first thing you say is do I think WoW will fail, when In my first post and countless posts afterwords I said WoW would be a highly succesful game.
I have no doubt that WoW will sell through the roof an excerpt from my first post.
Maybe you thought since I said all casual player games would fail I was reffering to WoW.
I wasn't,I was more or less reffering to some other titles that have tanked in the past
There is a significant endgame in the works for WoW that I was testing with my guild until I decided to quit .
For me WoW is not that challenging or deep,but I couldn't honestly say its totaly marketed to the casual gamer.
well, according to you WoW is very easy, so thers a very high chance of me "winning" as you would call it, and or finish it.Yeah for me winning the game is being in the best guild,and being the first do everything /shrug.
I'm competitive when it comes to things I like.
Thats how I personaly like to play the game, but I know deep down theres no way to beat a game like this because its designed to go on forever, or at least until people get bored of playing it.
For you winning a MMorpg may be far diffrent, its not going to coincide with my opinion. You're not the type of player that will do anything first,and you will not be in the best guild in the game because you don't want to put the extra legwork in, or that type of playing style holds no interest for you. Thats fine tho..
Its all about mutual respect for diffrent playings tyles in these type of sandbox worlds. I don't look down on casual gamers ,because there having fun doing what they do.
so your saying your fine with playing your character up to level 20? because thats what your telling me. I dont understand why me, the casual gamer cant log on whenever Im able and slowly but surely level up. Why do I need to do it in 40 days or whatever..You can do whatever you want as slow as you want, thats the beauty of these games.
My point is stop worrying so much about what the other players are doing in the game.
You're not going to catch up to them,there probly not even people you want to have a gameing experience with because there views and playstyles are so diffrent from yours.
your giving EQ way to much creditcool, over a 6 year period what game has made more money then EQ? what MMorpg has more exspansion packs, or a bigger franchise?
I honestly can't think of a single title that has even come close.
as I said before, companies need to make money, and the money is with the casual gamer. for reasons why just read previous posts.Really if thats a fact why has EQ and FFXI done so well ,and why have alot of the more casual gamers MMorpg's failed so miserably.
so being at the level cap is something special? when there are a ton of other ppl there too? there will always be other people with the same equipment as you and what not, what your asking is the impossible, at least with todays tech.I'm not sure what you're saying here,I was talking about risk versus reward..and you're reffering to endgame dynamics.
which makes me wonder why you play games at all.. if you want a challenging game go get yourself puzzlefighter, mmo's are made for the exact reason you dont want them.. escapism..Thats funny I thought they were still games.I play games because I like games. I'm not trying to escape anything in my real life.
MMorpg's are still games at there core,otherwise they would just be interactive chat rooms with avatars,and there are some MMO's out there like that.
WoW is most definately designed to be a game, not a tool for escapism.If it was it would encourage more roleplaying aspects..
you want to be able to be a hero to the people etc etc, well thats never gonna happen in an mmo, your never gonna be number one, there will always be someone else just as good, someone else thats done everything you have, someone else that has all the equipment you do. Your not special to any other gamer, no one looks up to you, and no one is gonna be cheering your name because you have killed the very last boss or whatever, or that you have the ultimate armor, no one cares,Since I compete in these games I see it diffrent then you. When my guild gets the first kill serverwide in these type of games on a Boss that can't be taken away from us.For the other people competing with us ,we've won.We were there first to do it.
You say Noone care,but what you should really says is you personally don't care.
If noone cared why Is the top guild server boards on these games absolutely swamped with people checking out there killshots on the first page,and following there every move through these games.
Its been proven that people acutely do care quite abit,its akin to watching you're city top sports team.
the fact is if anyone really wants to, they can obtain the exact same level that you are at, they can get the same equipment you have and they can kill the very last boss as well.They may be true, but if there competing with me they may not be the first people to get said equipment,they might not be the first person to experience the endgame, they may never be in the best guild from a competitive standpoint.
An mmo will always be a solo experience in the end, you might as well save yourself the time and stop playing now, unless of course theres other reasons you play?I guess you're new to these type of games, every game i ever played has been guild based. All the endgame being based of guilds of large amounts of people working togtther to acomplish something.
Also, i've said many times that Ive recently quit playing retail MMorpg's because I don't find these type of games challenging anymore. Poker holds my interest now.
I'll ocasionaly do some testing work,because I enjoy breaking other peoples Game engines,and I'm good at it.
Spankspeople
10-09-2004, 03:18 PM
Remember, they still have not implemented any of the GM run quests or most of the high level content(hero classes, etc.). That's waiting for final game release.
And as far as discouraging groups... I spent the better part of my time in the stress test in groups, so maybe you're just playing it wrong?
And as far as discouraging groups... I spent the better part of my time in the stress test in groups, so maybe you're just playing it wrong?
gigantor
10-09-2004, 03:28 PM
And as far as discouraging groups... I spent the better part of my time in the stress test in groups, so maybe you're just playing it wrong?I meen discouraging groups from an EXP standpoint.You can group all you want thats fine.
About 95% of the winners (myself included) of the stresstest won there slots soloing, the exp from a competitive point of view is just far to good and fast.
This might change before release ,and they may make groups more viable from an exp standpoint. Then people will most definately group up. Also they may balence the classes so that not every class can solo effectvly,and are forced into more of there group roles.
Right now ingame tho.
Solo = fastest EXP to the cap
All classes can solo very well.
When that type of thing happens it greatly discourages people from grouping, especialy if there competitive.
I'm a pro- group person myself tho ( i like support classes), but when the game dynamics penalize me for thinking that way, a gamer like me will just end up soloing for EXp,and using a permagroup/guild for items.
Remember, they still have not implemented any of the GM run quests or most of the high level content(hero classes, etc.). That's waiting for final game release.Heroes classes will not make release,they jsut do not have time for them. Blizzard already made a big anouncement on that.There having a hard enough time just balencing the classes they have.
My guilds testing the endgame right now,so although theres no NDA I still have to be watchful of what I say . I can say that I wasn't to impressed,but thats just me.
They said the GM quests will be much like EQ has them,scripted events every once in awhile for the playerbase.
Like Pufferfish said WOWs not targeting roleplayers or roleplaying, as there main subscribers.
The stresstest proved that even the more casual gamer is still flying through the content of WoW. WoW needs a Endgame from Hell,otherwise there going to have alot of people level capped within the first month with absolutely nothing to do, but PvP which brings along a whole new slew of problems .
Ok, thats going to be my last post on the WoW topic I'm starting to repeat the same answers in more then one post ,and I hate that. I beleieve I've covered everything I wanted to,and explained my position on it quite thurougly .
So if you're going to being playing this game upon release more power to you, I hope its everything you want it to be. =)
If you live in Gulf shores tho, screw WoW and come play me in a 10/20 game at the casino so I can take you're money =P
About 95% of the winners (myself included) of the stresstest won there slots soloing, the exp from a competitive point of view is just far to good and fast.
This might change before release ,and they may make groups more viable from an exp standpoint. Then people will most definately group up. Also they may balence the classes so that not every class can solo effectvly,and are forced into more of there group roles.
Right now ingame tho.
Solo = fastest EXP to the cap
All classes can solo very well.
When that type of thing happens it greatly discourages people from grouping, especialy if there competitive.
I'm a pro- group person myself tho ( i like support classes), but when the game dynamics penalize me for thinking that way, a gamer like me will just end up soloing for EXp,and using a permagroup/guild for items.
Remember, they still have not implemented any of the GM run quests or most of the high level content(hero classes, etc.). That's waiting for final game release.Heroes classes will not make release,they jsut do not have time for them. Blizzard already made a big anouncement on that.There having a hard enough time just balencing the classes they have.
My guilds testing the endgame right now,so although theres no NDA I still have to be watchful of what I say . I can say that I wasn't to impressed,but thats just me.
They said the GM quests will be much like EQ has them,scripted events every once in awhile for the playerbase.
Like Pufferfish said WOWs not targeting roleplayers or roleplaying, as there main subscribers.
The stresstest proved that even the more casual gamer is still flying through the content of WoW. WoW needs a Endgame from Hell,otherwise there going to have alot of people level capped within the first month with absolutely nothing to do, but PvP which brings along a whole new slew of problems .
Ok, thats going to be my last post on the WoW topic I'm starting to repeat the same answers in more then one post ,and I hate that. I beleieve I've covered everything I wanted to,and explained my position on it quite thurougly .
So if you're going to being playing this game upon release more power to you, I hope its everything you want it to be. =)
If you live in Gulf shores tho, screw WoW and come play me in a 10/20 game at the casino so I can take you're money =P
Geta-Ve
10-09-2004, 06:18 PM
gig - actually i spent alot of time reading your post, and was looking for that exact statement, but ended up not finding it :/ oh well, i was gonna discuss something about what you said but meh..
what you didn't say before (at least not in any post that i can remember, though im too lazy to go back and read now) is that you wanted to be the first in everything, now just the best... perhaps that should have been a given, but as you more or less figured out, i am new to the crowd, but that doesnt stop me from having my opinions and thoughts on the whole experience....
you keep thinking that im worried about other people or that i care about leveling up really fast and what not, i dont, all I care about is exploring.. that is what wow is for me is just an explorers game with other (imo) great content. I think thats what wow was meant to be was an explorers game... it encourages you to explore their world, be immersed in their history and share the warcraft experience... I think you want it to be a game that its not intending to be....
hrm... ah well... like you said, we both have our gameplay styles, and yours just doesnt happen to be a style that wow seems to cater to, guess thats why there ARE other games available :/
cheers to you I spose :shrug:
what you didn't say before (at least not in any post that i can remember, though im too lazy to go back and read now) is that you wanted to be the first in everything, now just the best... perhaps that should have been a given, but as you more or less figured out, i am new to the crowd, but that doesnt stop me from having my opinions and thoughts on the whole experience....
you keep thinking that im worried about other people or that i care about leveling up really fast and what not, i dont, all I care about is exploring.. that is what wow is for me is just an explorers game with other (imo) great content. I think thats what wow was meant to be was an explorers game... it encourages you to explore their world, be immersed in their history and share the warcraft experience... I think you want it to be a game that its not intending to be....
hrm... ah well... like you said, we both have our gameplay styles, and yours just doesnt happen to be a style that wow seems to cater to, guess thats why there ARE other games available :/
cheers to you I spose :shrug:
Rkhon
10-09-2004, 08:42 PM
Alot of good points.
One thing that I didn't see touched on very much, that is very important to me...PvP
PvP is a group activity, and generally high-level. And Blizzard will be introducing a PvP rewards system, and special areas and events for this purpose. I mean, as someone who love the idea of PvP in the end-game, thats AWESOME!
Whereas EQ2 will not have PvP. I know i know, "theyll add it later" but that is a major thing for myself and alot of other gamers.
And hero's arent even in yet.
I can't wait for this release.
One thing that I didn't see touched on very much, that is very important to me...PvP
PvP is a group activity, and generally high-level. And Blizzard will be introducing a PvP rewards system, and special areas and events for this purpose. I mean, as someone who love the idea of PvP in the end-game, thats AWESOME!
Whereas EQ2 will not have PvP. I know i know, "theyll add it later" but that is a major thing for myself and alot of other gamers.
And hero's arent even in yet.
I can't wait for this release.
malkavian2003
10-10-2004, 12:12 AM
quote from Bizzard's Q&A. Proving that they are far from really doing thier job in honoring the "gaming experiance"
11) Does Blizzard realize that the Horde is still lacking in the fun & fluff department (like the Alliance's vendors that sell holdable flowers, or their master chef vendor that sells many recipes, etc.)?
We do realize that such features are few and far between for the Horde at the moment. While we probably will not get such items in by release, the Horde should receive more attention on this front when we add such things in post-launch.
If anyone has played the PVP server. This is evident.
11) Does Blizzard realize that the Horde is still lacking in the fun & fluff department (like the Alliance's vendors that sell holdable flowers, or their master chef vendor that sells many recipes, etc.)?
We do realize that such features are few and far between for the Horde at the moment. While we probably will not get such items in by release, the Horde should receive more attention on this front when we add such things in post-launch.
If anyone has played the PVP server. This is evident.
ambient-whisper
10-10-2004, 12:21 AM
quote from Bizzard's Q&A. Proving that they are far from really doing thier job in honoring the "gaming experiance"
11) Does Blizzard realize that the Horde is still lacking in the fun & fluff department (like the Alliance's vendors that sell holdable flowers, or their master chef vendor that sells many recipes, etc.)?
We do realize that such features are few and far between for the Horde at the moment. While we probably will not get such items in by release, the Horde should receive more attention on this front when we add such things in post-launch.
If anyone has played the PVP server. This is evident.
and if you know anything about making games, and the huge amounts of assets that need to be made plus the fact that blizzard isnt as big as EA or squaresoft ( people employed wise ), then youd respect them for not having every single things being handled at the same time.
theres important things.... and then theres small details that need to be made.
11) Does Blizzard realize that the Horde is still lacking in the fun & fluff department (like the Alliance's vendors that sell holdable flowers, or their master chef vendor that sells many recipes, etc.)?
We do realize that such features are few and far between for the Horde at the moment. While we probably will not get such items in by release, the Horde should receive more attention on this front when we add such things in post-launch.
If anyone has played the PVP server. This is evident.
and if you know anything about making games, and the huge amounts of assets that need to be made plus the fact that blizzard isnt as big as EA or squaresoft ( people employed wise ), then youd respect them for not having every single things being handled at the same time.
theres important things.... and then theres small details that need to be made.
Silvermyst
10-10-2004, 03:04 PM
cool, over a 6 year period what game has made more money then EQ? what MMorpg has more exspansion packs, or a bigger franchise?
I honestly can't think of a single title that has even come close.
I'm not gonna get too far into this, but several games come to mind that have been more successful that EQ.
The Sims for one, in a 4 year period has been more successful than any other game, not to mention it caters almost entirely to the casual market. Not too sure about this, but Lineage 1 I think was more successful. And in terms of profit, perhaps not, but CounterStrike is probably without question the most successful game that caters to 'hardcore' gamers.
anyway, I can't wait for this open beta. There's no way I'm missing out on it like I did the stress test.
I honestly can't think of a single title that has even come close.
I'm not gonna get too far into this, but several games come to mind that have been more successful that EQ.
The Sims for one, in a 4 year period has been more successful than any other game, not to mention it caters almost entirely to the casual market. Not too sure about this, but Lineage 1 I think was more successful. And in terms of profit, perhaps not, but CounterStrike is probably without question the most successful game that caters to 'hardcore' gamers.
anyway, I can't wait for this open beta. There's no way I'm missing out on it like I did the stress test.
gigantor
10-10-2004, 03:16 PM
Sims doesn't charge 10 to 30 dollars every month for its accounts + buying the actual game and its exspansions which is around 30 -50 each exspansion for the last 6 years.
So no, sorry as far as profit is concerened EQ has dwarfed the sims in terms of revenue from its franchise.
Eq franchise right now =
Original Everquest client + 8 exspasnion packs (monthly subscription fee)
Everquest 2 (monthly subscription fee)
Phone games
PDA games
2 PS2 games
1 Ps2 online game (monthly subscription fee)
1 RTS PC game
Various Apparal, and merchandise (toys,books,comics)
Sony owned Conventions which tour around the country
Lineage 1 does have alot of people playing it,but they also give away alot of accounts to internet cafes ,and good bit of those accounts are never used. Lineage hasn't made near the money EQ has.
Counterstrike is free to play, but if were just talking about sheer numbers. EQ hides its numbers now, so noones going to know, but I hear its over a million people pay for accounts currently all around the world.
If thats not better or close to the Counterstrike numbers I'd be surprised.
Heres a Blurb from the May 2004 issue of GameDeveloper Magazine
The population of Everquest rivals that of citys like New Orleans,Las Vegas,and Cleveland; its higher then Atlanta,Kansas City,Omaha,Miamai,or St Louis. From the 2000 Census, Everquest would be the 35th largest city in the U.S. Success in the Video game buisness is equated to profit. So in terms of sheer profit no game comes close.
So no, sorry as far as profit is concerened EQ has dwarfed the sims in terms of revenue from its franchise.
Eq franchise right now =
Original Everquest client + 8 exspasnion packs (monthly subscription fee)
Everquest 2 (monthly subscription fee)
Phone games
PDA games
2 PS2 games
1 Ps2 online game (monthly subscription fee)
1 RTS PC game
Various Apparal, and merchandise (toys,books,comics)
Sony owned Conventions which tour around the country
Lineage 1 does have alot of people playing it,but they also give away alot of accounts to internet cafes ,and good bit of those accounts are never used. Lineage hasn't made near the money EQ has.
Counterstrike is free to play, but if were just talking about sheer numbers. EQ hides its numbers now, so noones going to know, but I hear its over a million people pay for accounts currently all around the world.
If thats not better or close to the Counterstrike numbers I'd be surprised.
Heres a Blurb from the May 2004 issue of GameDeveloper Magazine
The population of Everquest rivals that of citys like New Orleans,Las Vegas,and Cleveland; its higher then Atlanta,Kansas City,Omaha,Miamai,or St Louis. From the 2000 Census, Everquest would be the 35th largest city in the U.S. Success in the Video game buisness is equated to profit. So in terms of sheer profit no game comes close.
Silvermyst
10-10-2004, 03:38 PM
Success in the Video game buisness is equated to profit. So in terms of sheer profit no game comes close.
Well if that's the case, MMORPGs cost a rediculous amount of money to make and maintain, which would lead me to believe that EQ's profits aren't as great as a glance at the monthly fee + expansions, etc would seem.
Unfortunately I don't have any hard numbers to argue with, but The Sims would bring in almost nothing BUT profit, with very little (comparitively) development costs.
Well if that's the case, MMORPGs cost a rediculous amount of money to make and maintain, which would lead me to believe that EQ's profits aren't as great as a glance at the monthly fee + expansions, etc would seem.
Unfortunately I don't have any hard numbers to argue with, but The Sims would bring in almost nothing BUT profit, with very little (comparitively) development costs.
gigantor
10-10-2004, 03:44 PM
Well if that's the case, MMORPGs cost a rediculous amount of money to make and maintain, which would lead me to believe that EQ's profits aren't as great as a glance at the monthly fee + expansions, etc would seem.
Unfortunately I don't have any hard numbers to argue with, but The Sims would bring in almost nothing BUT profit, with very little (comparitively) development costs.Sims also has a huge budget when they make there games (well into the millions according to GameDeveloper), and its online now. (so basicaly they have the same problems with maintaining servers,and customer support)
Everquest still makes huge box sales beside there montly fees which is there bread and butter.
Just crunching the numbers at a glance, you can easly tell the Sims doesn't even come close. Now the Sims I believe are the most profitable box game in existant,If we just count box game sales only.
For one customer to play everquest for one year (if they bought the exspansions at there original prices) it will cost them around 600- 1000 dollars then mutilpy that number by a million,heh.
Sony does not mess around.
Unfortunately I don't have any hard numbers to argue with, but The Sims would bring in almost nothing BUT profit, with very little (comparitively) development costs.Sims also has a huge budget when they make there games (well into the millions according to GameDeveloper), and its online now. (so basicaly they have the same problems with maintaining servers,and customer support)
Everquest still makes huge box sales beside there montly fees which is there bread and butter.
Just crunching the numbers at a glance, you can easly tell the Sims doesn't even come close. Now the Sims I believe are the most profitable box game in existant,If we just count box game sales only.
For one customer to play everquest for one year (if they bought the exspansions at there original prices) it will cost them around 600- 1000 dollars then mutilpy that number by a million,heh.
Sony does not mess around.
Rkhon
10-10-2004, 08:11 PM
Lots of people buy cigarettes...doesn't mean they are good.
Spankspeople
10-10-2004, 08:29 PM
True, though anyone who can market toxic smoke as a recreational activity has to be a genious.
An evil one, but a genious nevertheless.
An evil one, but a genious nevertheless.
Rkhon
10-11-2004, 02:30 AM
The same could be said for the monotonous grinding treadmill that is...Everquest. :P
And a bunch of other MMORPGs...WoW is the first one that doesn't have that feeling, to me at least and I know I'm not alone on that opinion.
And a bunch of other MMORPGs...WoW is the first one that doesn't have that feeling, to me at least and I know I'm not alone on that opinion.
TheWraith
10-11-2004, 02:32 PM
Thats why the stresstester were able to get to over 40 in a such a little time.
I do know that when the hunter class came out, it took around a week to start seeing lvl 40 hunters, but honestly, those are players that have far too much time on their hands. i've been playing for several months and i'm a whopping lvl 41. I really don't see how a hardcore gamer can put in the amount of time it takes to get to the lvl 60 cap thats in right now, in a matter of weeks. If you have a family and job, it just isn't going to happen unless you neglect one or the other. I'm constantly getting in groups to complete quests for xp. It took around 5 runs before I could get a good enough group to make it through the friggin' wailing caverns! The instances are tough, and pretty much require a group unless you are around 15 levels above what you are supposed to be for the instance, in which case you aren't getting any xp anyways. You can solo the non elite quests most of the times, but unless they're for a rare drop like heculars rod or that damned spider ichor or some fizzy's eyeball, its still a better idea to do the quests in a group. Theres still plenty of sections and features they're waiting to add as well. I'm mostly curious what they have in mind with the hero class and if they are indeed implimented!
I do know that when the hunter class came out, it took around a week to start seeing lvl 40 hunters, but honestly, those are players that have far too much time on their hands. i've been playing for several months and i'm a whopping lvl 41. I really don't see how a hardcore gamer can put in the amount of time it takes to get to the lvl 60 cap thats in right now, in a matter of weeks. If you have a family and job, it just isn't going to happen unless you neglect one or the other. I'm constantly getting in groups to complete quests for xp. It took around 5 runs before I could get a good enough group to make it through the friggin' wailing caverns! The instances are tough, and pretty much require a group unless you are around 15 levels above what you are supposed to be for the instance, in which case you aren't getting any xp anyways. You can solo the non elite quests most of the times, but unless they're for a rare drop like heculars rod or that damned spider ichor or some fizzy's eyeball, its still a better idea to do the quests in a group. Theres still plenty of sections and features they're waiting to add as well. I'm mostly curious what they have in mind with the hero class and if they are indeed implimented!
Geta-Ve
10-11-2004, 03:39 PM
we also should remember that level 60 is most likely not the end cap, they will probably take it up to 100 or over when they are ready.
and yes ive been playing for about 2 months now, i think almost at least once a day for a few hours (2 to 6) and im only at level 19, and im loving it, ive explored everywhere i can done so many quests, and nothing is boring yet. I enjoy helping the other lower level people out to do their quests, even though I may not get xp its fine with me.
And I took that griffon from Stormwind to IronForge and holy crap, some of the places I flew over looked so freaking amazing, I cant wait till I get there.
My screenshots folder is like.. 3gigs (about 500 pics) lol alot I know but there is so much awesome stuff to look at I dont want to forget it.. Like those monuments in stormwind, oh man, unbelievable.
and yes ive been playing for about 2 months now, i think almost at least once a day for a few hours (2 to 6) and im only at level 19, and im loving it, ive explored everywhere i can done so many quests, and nothing is boring yet. I enjoy helping the other lower level people out to do their quests, even though I may not get xp its fine with me.
And I took that griffon from Stormwind to IronForge and holy crap, some of the places I flew over looked so freaking amazing, I cant wait till I get there.
My screenshots folder is like.. 3gigs (about 500 pics) lol alot I know but there is so much awesome stuff to look at I dont want to forget it.. Like those monuments in stormwind, oh man, unbelievable.
Silvermyst
10-11-2004, 03:59 PM
we also should remember that level 60 is most likely not the end cap, they will probably take it up to 100 or over when they are ready.
I'm not too sure about that. They've been talking about 60 being the cap for around 2 years, and have scaled and balanced all the game's content to that cap.
Remember that hero classes will be what brings you "above" the level cap. I think the only chance of the current level cap going above 60 would be in expansions where content (Northrend for example) is hard enough to introduce a new tier of leveling, where 60 would be a 'newbish' level. I doubt that will happen though, but who knows.
I'm not too sure about that. They've been talking about 60 being the cap for around 2 years, and have scaled and balanced all the game's content to that cap.
Remember that hero classes will be what brings you "above" the level cap. I think the only chance of the current level cap going above 60 would be in expansions where content (Northrend for example) is hard enough to introduce a new tier of leveling, where 60 would be a 'newbish' level. I doubt that will happen though, but who knows.
Geta-Ve
10-11-2004, 10:36 PM
i dunno.. I was thinking it would happen, with all of the characters you see around the world being well over 60 (I just saw a guy in SW yesterday at level 95..)
I dunno I hope they do up the cap, because when the beta started wasnt the cap at like level 30 or 40?
Perhaps like you said the hero stuff will allow the players to go over level 60, and the hero stuff could be the content geared towards the hardcore crowd.. would be interesting to find out.
I dunno I hope they do up the cap, because when the beta started wasnt the cap at like level 30 or 40?
Perhaps like you said the hero stuff will allow the players to go over level 60, and the hero stuff could be the content geared towards the hardcore crowd.. would be interesting to find out.
MFTituS
10-12-2004, 12:12 AM
just cant wait to get wow between my fingers. for me it is the first mmorpg which interests me.
and i cant understand how gigantor can say " the gameplay is just not there".
for me itīs so interesting because it is the first one which contains gameplay. when im playing wow im feeling like a child exploring a big world with his wide open eyes, making experience, learn many things, want to try and touch everything, know to learn new people and much more - it makes fun!
gigantor, you have said, that you want to master challenges, be the first, the best..its ok, but i ask you, how much fun you have by doing this and which what things you are spend your playtime most?
i know some mmorpg player (eq, lineage, camelot) and all i hear, they are camping on spawnpoints some hours, fighting the whole day, using even bots, which are running all the day and generateing new highlevel-characters in a short time cause its everytime a stupid and boring experience to level up only to get the highlevel characters they need to make guildwars, pvp, etc whats the only funny thing in the game.
when i want to play, the level and experience of my character isnt important. itīs my time, which is important to me and how i spend it. so i want to have fun, from the beginning to the end and not investing many weeks with stupid things.
if you just do it all for challenge, than you would even be satisfied if you could click the whole day on the mousebutton to be the best in this discipline - for me it is nearly the same.
and eq is not played so long cause it is a very good game - i dont think so. from the beginning to now the people are not satisfied with it, but the problem is, there are not many good alternatives cause all the following mmorpgs where the same with new graphics. so the old guys have spend so many months with this game, know each other and using it more like a big chatroom, meeting their onlinefriends - cause they have no matter to jump to another game.
so i think blizzard makes a good first try implementing more fun and gameplay into this genre. it is no innovation, but they make such a great job giving the mmorpg experience to everyone and not only hardcoregamer, who have too much time. maybe it is not so interesting for the hardcore community, i dont know, but this game is interesting for so many other gamers who just have waited for such an easy starting, ripe and entertaining gameexperience.
games have to entertain, the times have changed where games where there to torture the gamer like many games in the early years have done so. it wasnt the fun, which has let us played all the stuff on the c64 and amiga era - it was more that we wanted to defeat them, no matter how boring, unfair and without quaility they were. of course i talk not about all games. there where many great games too, but think of all the shit you have played in your childhood. but it was a new experience and so we played everything we could get into our hands.....
and with todays mmorpgs on the market, i thing that most of them torture you as the games did it before. you are investing more time than ever and get less than ever.
so big thanks to blizzard for ignoring the ill "newest technology shit and same old gameplay" and just concentrating on making great games for as much as possible people out there.
thats just my opinion and if i attacked somebody, it was not my decision.
i just wanted to add some new points to the discusion.
and i cant understand how gigantor can say " the gameplay is just not there".
for me itīs so interesting because it is the first one which contains gameplay. when im playing wow im feeling like a child exploring a big world with his wide open eyes, making experience, learn many things, want to try and touch everything, know to learn new people and much more - it makes fun!
gigantor, you have said, that you want to master challenges, be the first, the best..its ok, but i ask you, how much fun you have by doing this and which what things you are spend your playtime most?
i know some mmorpg player (eq, lineage, camelot) and all i hear, they are camping on spawnpoints some hours, fighting the whole day, using even bots, which are running all the day and generateing new highlevel-characters in a short time cause its everytime a stupid and boring experience to level up only to get the highlevel characters they need to make guildwars, pvp, etc whats the only funny thing in the game.
when i want to play, the level and experience of my character isnt important. itīs my time, which is important to me and how i spend it. so i want to have fun, from the beginning to the end and not investing many weeks with stupid things.
if you just do it all for challenge, than you would even be satisfied if you could click the whole day on the mousebutton to be the best in this discipline - for me it is nearly the same.
and eq is not played so long cause it is a very good game - i dont think so. from the beginning to now the people are not satisfied with it, but the problem is, there are not many good alternatives cause all the following mmorpgs where the same with new graphics. so the old guys have spend so many months with this game, know each other and using it more like a big chatroom, meeting their onlinefriends - cause they have no matter to jump to another game.
so i think blizzard makes a good first try implementing more fun and gameplay into this genre. it is no innovation, but they make such a great job giving the mmorpg experience to everyone and not only hardcoregamer, who have too much time. maybe it is not so interesting for the hardcore community, i dont know, but this game is interesting for so many other gamers who just have waited for such an easy starting, ripe and entertaining gameexperience.
games have to entertain, the times have changed where games where there to torture the gamer like many games in the early years have done so. it wasnt the fun, which has let us played all the stuff on the c64 and amiga era - it was more that we wanted to defeat them, no matter how boring, unfair and without quaility they were. of course i talk not about all games. there where many great games too, but think of all the shit you have played in your childhood. but it was a new experience and so we played everything we could get into our hands.....
and with todays mmorpgs on the market, i thing that most of them torture you as the games did it before. you are investing more time than ever and get less than ever.
so big thanks to blizzard for ignoring the ill "newest technology shit and same old gameplay" and just concentrating on making great games for as much as possible people out there.
thats just my opinion and if i attacked somebody, it was not my decision.
i just wanted to add some new points to the discusion.
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