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RobertoOrtiz
10-07-2004, 12:20 PM
* By interopreability I am mean with apps like After Effects, Photoshop, Flash Dev studio etc

Ok in order to clear the air, I have decided to post a series of threads
where ideas on how to improve Lightwave can be posted in an organized fashion.
The idea is to provide an one stop place where developers (from Newtek, or independent)can come in and get ideas.

This thread along with its sister threads:

HOW TO IMPROVE LIGHTWAVE: Character Animation (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=175156)
HOW TO IMPROVE LIGHTWAVE: Dynamics (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=175161)
HOW TO IMPROVE LIGHTWAVE: Effects (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=175224)
HOW TO IMPROVE LIGHTWAVE: Layout (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=175167)
HOW TO IMPROVE LIGHTWAVE: Modeling (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=175149)
HOW TO IMPROVE LIGHTWAVE: Rendering (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=175166)
HOW TO IMPROVE LIGHTWAVE: SDK and plug-in development (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=175698)
HOW TO IMPROVE LIGHTWAVE: Interoperability with other apps (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=175697)
HOW TO IMPROVE LIGHTWAVE: Workflow (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=176496)
HOW TO IMPROVE LIGHTWAVE: Expressions (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=178670)



..will be used to provide input on ho to move Lightwave back into the forefront of CG graphics.

But in order to keep things positive (glass half full), and make it something
worth while, there are some rules for this thread:

1) STAY ON TOPIC:
Please dont provide rants, just provide your ideas.
2) NO BASHING:
No bashing Lightwave or any other app. I mean it.
3) LINKS:
If new research is pointed out, please provide links to it.
4) PROVIDE EXAMPLES:
Show us real life examples on how your idea would help you.
5) WORKFLOW
Please along with your comment, provide suggestions of how to
implement the concept or idea on the workflow. Workflow is one of the
things that make Lightwave what it is.
6) KEEP IT POSITIVE
The can do attitude is what made this community once great, cynicism is
killing it. Someone once told me "Optimism is an act of defiance".
6) NO SOFTWARE PEEDLING
I added this rule just for this one.The usual suspects know what I mean, and it is NOT
open for debate.

Thanks,
-Roberto

csfalcao
10-07-2004, 07:48 PM
Natively support 16 bit images (for Zbrush maps).
Well, about game engines = "1 click" normal map creation, and support for DX shaders creation/preview on screen/integrated (ATI/nVidia has tools for that). I think that opening the SDK will "open the way" for this kindo of features, anyway.

m_luscombe
10-08-2004, 01:27 AM
I don't know if it's Newtek's or Kaydara's fault, but someone needs to fix the FBX plugin with 8.0.1. That would be nice.

Flashfire
10-08-2004, 02:21 AM
Kaydara, as in Motion Builder, as in newly owned subsiduary of Alias, makers of Maya?

Dunno if that'll happen anytime soon...

m_luscombe
10-08-2004, 02:47 AM
Their loss. The FBX formats was one of the more important thing they acquired when they bought Kaydara. If they let it fade, or make it proprietary, it's almost worthless.

Not sure why they would do that.

The plugin works with v.8, but not 8.0.1, so NT broke something, or changed something that Kaydara needs to address.

The FBX format is important, and could really end up being THE standard 3D format. I can't think of what else could be more important for "interoperability"

fez
10-08-2004, 06:26 AM
Oh no! What broke? I Know it exports ok at least.

m_luscombe
10-08-2004, 07:29 AM
Er, are you sure you're using 8.0.1? The plugin doesn't do anything, it just says "export failed". Works fine in 8.0, though. I have to keep two installations to use it.

fez
10-08-2004, 05:15 PM
Yep, 8.01 and the export works fine for me.

m_luscombe
10-08-2004, 05:30 PM
Mac or PC?

I have both. 8.0.1 killed the FBX export on the Mac, so I didn't upgrade on the PC.

Maybe they just killed the mac version?

uncommongrafx
10-08-2004, 05:48 PM
Michel Besner and a guy from Alias stated at SIGGRAPH that things would stay as they are. So, if you are having problems a letter to one or both of these groups ought to get things straightened out. Have you posted this at Kaydara's site?

On point, here's my offering of using LightWave as an interoperable tool:
http://www.creativecow.net/forum/read_post.php?postid=109644748386803&forumid=123

Come on, make some cool scenes for this awesome tool.
http://www.creativecow.net/forum/read_post.php?postid=109631988175351&forumid=123
This kit has objects, scenes and mdd files that are needed for the examples. If you post'em, I'll render them, include them in the package and credit the scene to you and whatever you might provide. Within reason, of course.
Cool image and text eye candy much appreciated.

3D goes 2D, right on the timeline.

fez
10-08-2004, 09:25 PM
PC. Import seems to work fine too...that is a bummer for MAC folks.

scotttygett
10-08-2004, 09:57 PM
I'd heard that interoperability with some puppeteering and whatever that term is for grabbing a model from life using a scribe or probe was going to stay the case.

It doesn't appear to be mentioned here, so I mention it. I think I heard that this had to do with UNIX, which I doubt, since even PRMan is written in C.

It could be that these tools aren't that worthwhile also.

davhub
10-10-2004, 10:42 PM
Hi guys.. let me say that lightwave needs, as other apps did before, an
opening to the "real world" of pipelines and workflows.

I use lightwave as visualizator of my project for preview with clients
and for art and personal work.
I feel urgently a decent import/export capability and improvement!

nowadays managing formats is a challenge apps should consider seriously
So biting off the ceremony:

STL, DXF (still there), and other tesseleted formats import and saving! (POV
and RAD, for example)
but, more, OBJ; IGES, and other NURBS formats
both saving and importing (most of all)
it should be interesting work seriously upon the nurbs format in
order to let the user manage better the texture/material
assignation process often difficult for the presence
of too many triangles in tesselation.

thanks for listening NT guys ;)

Davhub

tais
10-15-2004, 01:58 AM
hurrmm, ... connect modo to hub.. technically possible but still impossible? Ooo too bad...

uncommongrafx
10-15-2004, 02:03 AM
I believe, tais, that would be for the Lux folk to do, ya know, as they have the code...

tais
10-15-2004, 02:15 AM
i tought it was extremely same code base... hehe
but you right this kind of connexion choice can only be start from Lux now...

RobertoOrtiz
10-15-2004, 03:36 AM
I believe, tais, that would be for the Lux folk to do, ya know, as they have the code...

6) NO SOFTWARE PEEDLING
I added this rule just for this one.The usual suspects know what I mean, and it is NOT
open for debate.

Guys I did not create this thread to discuss other apps. there is a forum for this, lets keep on topic.

-R

uncommongrafx
10-15-2004, 03:49 AM
Roberto,
As your pm space is full, I was unable to ask a question of you. Please email so that I might satisfy my curiosity. Thanks.

HCompston
10-15-2004, 05:31 AM
AutoCAD DWG Import would be handy. Converting to DXF then importing is a pain.


H

Michael32766
10-15-2004, 05:35 AM
Hi, Something Newtek really needs to consider.
The ability to export a series of morph targets to another file format. ObJ, 3ds, whatever etc.
For example I have a chracter modeled with facial targets.
That model is going to another package to be animated.
The best place to do the morph tragets/blend shapes is in Lightwave.
You can sort of export the targets now with 3rd party plugins laying around but it's not easy.
I know becuse I exported about 75 chracters, most of them 5 or 10 times this way.

Thanks,
mike

uncommongrafx
10-15-2004, 05:22 PM
Being quoted in that manner was bothersome. As I'm not getting a response, I am posting my question to the moderator here:
Was that warning for ME? I guess I'm not used to being quoted with a warning below. I've been quite... nasty to the marketeers so I don't think it was for me but I want to KNOW instead of my presumption.

Thanks.

RobertoOrtiz
10-15-2004, 05:44 PM
uncommongrafx send me a PM.


-R

maddness
10-15-2004, 05:46 PM
direct rendered output to an Adobe aftereffects project like in C4D

pipari
10-22-2004, 08:54 PM
A full featured RIB export: lights, camera, surfaces, geometry (including RiCurves), smoothed normals etc. per frame.


-------------------
pipari
-------------------

PaZ
10-23-2004, 01:19 PM
I laready reported it in rendering section but:

- Make render engine a plugin class, or allow a seamless integration of external engines. Lot of powerful engines out there, and most of all, very *specialized* ones. Newtek should keep native render up to date as a good general-purpose enginen, but should allow us to use needed engine. I.e, VIZ pros would surely consider Vray, and so on.
Being sticky to native rendering (which shows its age, by now) can force some users to move to other 3D apps. I'd make it a top-priority in next LW updates.

Paolo Zambrini

telamon
11-23-2004, 11:58 PM
--> I agree with most of the import/export (DWG, STL...) formats.
--> I agree with a better communication with bodypaint, motionbuilder, external renderers, dynamics programs like syflex etc

But what about being able to use 3DS Max plugins with an online translator from Maxscript to LWscript? :D It is possible from photoshop to paintshoppro... why not btw Max & LW ?

SpaceMadness
12-03-2004, 10:33 PM
Lighwave should import/export .x3d files natively.

It is the perfect format for all interoperability purposes:

- open standard, non-proprietary

- support for easily editable and readable text and small binary encoding

- extensible

Newtek could even get rid of the the .lwo and .lws formats and replace everything with customized x3d profiles.

link: www.web3d.org (http://www.web3d.org/)

tburbage3
01-09-2005, 06:13 PM
Save As and Open: Maya .ma (ascii) scene format for either scenes or objects
Save As and Open: MotionBuilder .fbx

Great connectivity features with Photoshop for texturing or other image input; excellent image and scene data export for After Effects/Shake/Fusion.

dukestreet
07-26-2005, 02:05 PM
I've recently run into some issues trying to get .max files converted and loaded into Lightwave. I'm on a Mac and there are 3rd party apps that can do the work, but they're for PCs. So, like above, a more import/export options that allow for all the other major 3D apps would be fantastic. Its always a pain when you're limited to what you can do.

D

BeeVee
07-26-2005, 02:19 PM
In response to Turbage3, you can already import and export .fbx files. If you have a look at the MotionBuilder site you'll find a plug-in for LightWave... for dukestreet, unfortunately max's format is shut more tightly than a tight thing, and although there are several apps that tell you they can translate from .max format, they also state that you need a copy of max installed for this to work. It's probably never going to be different, which is why no other app, with the exception of other Autodesk products support the .max format. You will need to ask the max studio to save as almost any other format.

Also, it's worth noting that NewTek has offered a complete SDK to develop the LWO format in whatever application you are building for a long time now. It's free of charge, so perhaps these other companies need to add LightWave to their workflow as well? ;)

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/developers.php

B

dukestreet
07-26-2005, 05:56 PM
for dukestreet, unfortunately max's format is shut more tightly than a tight thing, and although there are several apps that tell you they can translate from .max format, they also state that you need a copy of max installed for this to work. It's probably never going to be different, which is why no other app, with the exception of other Autodesk products support the .max format. You will need to ask the max studio to save as almost any other format.

ah damn - that's what I ran into when I had a coworker try and convert it and I just went and used a different model and modified it in the modeler... what a pain. Thanks for the info, though.

D

Exper
07-27-2005, 06:35 AM
@pipari: I send you a PM; please reply or contact me! THANKS!

Edit: sorry for this OT but I was looking for Pipari long since.

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RobertoOrtiz
09-24-2007, 04:03 PM
Reopned the thread..

-R

formerself
09-26-2007, 06:30 AM
I'd really like a better system for utalizing zbrush, ive had a really hard time getting the 2 to mesh

Vojislav+Milanovic
10-03-2007, 10:57 AM
Yes, better utilization of normal and displacement maps for better integration with zbrush an mudbox. One of the LW's strongest points is it's render. So it would play very good with zbrush and mudbox as it is able to make awesome cage models and spit out great renders (on lot's of nodes). Other thing, that somehow connect with this would be better usage of tablets with modeler. Currently, if you try to zoom/move/rotate using viewport handles and tablet you'll hit end of tablet surface!? That makes it quite difficult to use tablet for these tasks (if if you have tablet input set in options). Also, shortcut key for this mouse/tablet input setting will be very useful!

Thanks!

SilvioToledo
10-05-2007, 11:33 PM
Better Zbrush support. See XSI Tools

The normal and displacement maps support on lightwave is very bad.

Also please keep the doors open to the other plugins like Shave and HairCut, V Ray ...

bobakabob
10-12-2007, 11:13 AM
Better Zbrush support. See XSI Tools

The normal and displacement maps support on lightwave is very bad.

I don't agree. The ZBrush > LW displacent node mentioned in Steve Warner's tutorial is strangely absent from Lightwave 9 contents - but you can easily create it yourself in seconds if you follow the diagram.

Perhaps you're suggesting Newtek should create a dedicated ZBrush node? This might make the process a little easier for people new to nodes in Lightwave.

Numerically adjustmenting the displacements to get them looking good takes a bit more time but there are recommended values in the tutorial. Setting up the Normal map node is simplicity itself.

Once you've gone through the process a couple of times it makes sense and results can be excellent. You can work with both apps open and exchange data in minutes.

biliousfrog
10-12-2007, 04:53 PM
There still needs to be a decent DXF/DWG/EPS importer. This seems to be a really overlooked feature when you consider the output of Cityscape (who were guests at Newtek's siggraph booth), Muharraqi studios (who are regularly featured by Newtek) &, of course, myself:D If such simple integration with Autocad was possible architects might think twice about learning Max.

The process of importing a CAD file into Lightwave is very hit & miss. The most reliable solution that I've found is:

request the file be supplied as a pdf
open the pdf in Illustrator
save as a legacy .ai file, version 8
import eps & load the ai into lightwave.

If the architect can't export to pdf....

load DXF/DWG into AcmeCAD - save as EPS
open the EPS in Illustrator
save as a legacy .ai file, version 8
import eps & load the ai into lightwave.

Hardly ideal.

threedeworks
10-12-2007, 11:04 PM
...fix the 3DS import in modeler and layout (hierarchic/ jointed models come in completely scrambled) and add native MTL support to import and export of OBJ files.

markus

Cageman
10-14-2007, 07:13 AM
Better Zbrush support. See XSI Tools

The normal and displacement maps support on lightwave is very bad.

Also please keep the doors open to the other plugins like Shave and HairCut, V Ray ...

Appart from LW having difficulty rendering highpoly meshes with displacement maps (which is a bad thing), I havn't heard anyone saying that displacements and normalmaps doesn't work as intended. Well, going back at LW8.x and earlier, there were troubles, but ever since the introduction of nodes, things have changed dramaticly. I've managed to control the intensity of normal maps based on rotation of bones (forehead wrinkles kicking in when rising eyebrows) and they render as they should. There are also some free third party tools (nodes actually) that let you bake normalmaps.

I think LW needs extended flexibility in how to configure your mouse + keyboard interaction. Modeler is locked at trackball rotation when using mouse + keyboard. A way to configure it so that if I hold ALT + mouse I get "normal" rotation and when I hold ALT+CTRL + mouse I get trackball rotation would be great. This would mean that I can configure everything to work the same way other 3D apps work, which makes the process of jumping between LW and another app more transparent. Modo is a good example of just that.

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