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McStyle
10-07-2004, 12:27 PM
started a new project
i've set myself a limit at 2000-3000 tris and at the moment it's 1400 tris

and here's the a wip shot
http://home.arcor.de/onestyle/Art/rockman.jpg
a lot work on it but i just wanted to show something :)

Frank Dodd
10-07-2004, 01:13 PM
I assume this guy is a rocket man, he is looking reminiscent of Captain Keen (those were the days) the proportions are looking good so far, I assume you are going for the light build in which case it looks fine.

McStyle
10-07-2004, 01:23 PM
eerm maybe i'm wrong, but i've read that this guy is called rockman.
maybe you also know him under the name megaman :)
but at the latest everybody should recognize him when he gets his plasmagun :D

McStyle
10-08-2004, 04:29 PM
some updates
model is just mirror, so don't pay attention on the center line
http://home.arcor.de/onestyle/Art/rockman2.jpg
c&c are welcome

Slythis
10-08-2004, 05:30 PM
great work so far, your mesh flow is great, the proportions look great to, can't wait to start seeing textures!

McStyle
10-08-2004, 06:27 PM
thanks :)
but first i've got a problem with the hands.
don't know why, but everytime, i try to model them, they look like sausages :sad:
would be nice, if somebody can give me some tips.

KevinKraeer
10-09-2004, 12:46 AM
I like your take on good ole mega man (rockman).

Only thing is, he seems a little thin to me. But that's just personal preference I think.

About hands, I usually start by making a box, 4(wide)x3(deep)x1(high). Then turn it so one of the sides with 4 faces is facing the end of the wrist (it helps if your character's arms are extended outward to the sides).

Then, you can select and extrude the four faces on the side facing away from the character, scaling down as you make each extrusion. Like wise, select the middle of the three faces on the front of this box and extrude and scale to create the thumb.

It doesn't give you a finished hand but it gives you the basic shape to start with. Looks like you're using Maya, so if you decide to do this, go to Polygons> Tool Settings and uncheck "Keep Faces Together". Otherwise as you're extruding and scaling the 'fingers', they'll scale as one huge mass extension of the box you made.

Great start man! Good luck.

TallgeeseIIII
10-09-2004, 01:02 AM
aw, wow! i'm a HUGE megaman enthusiast and it always excites me when people go back to classics, and break off from the repetitive medieval themes.

looks flawless for ROCKMAN.EXE, btw, for those that don't know, in the japanese games all the important characters are named based on music themes, rockman(american=megaman), roll, blues (american=protoman), rush, treble(american=gospel) and forte(american=bass), you get it.

Alpha_Hale
10-09-2004, 02:42 AM
megaman is a sweet character to model.

well i've got some feedback for you if you want it. his porportions make him look female! and we just cant have that now can we. the hips are very wide, and you gave him that bottleneck curve that a girl has. i'd say make the legs shorter. make the chest and shoulders bigger. and widen his waist so that his hips dont look so big in comparison.

keep it up

McStyle
10-09-2004, 11:33 AM
thanks, i'll try to change it and add some opinions
but it's not really the good old one.
may someone know megaman nt warriors. in this serie, megaman gets a new look
http://www.wb16.com/data/shows/322_megaman-med.jpg

Panupat
10-09-2004, 06:47 PM
yea he changes a lot everytime a new game release : / I personally like Rockman back in the NES days the most. Followed by the first RockmanX 1.

Your model is looking close to your reference. But his cloth looks a bit tight at his ass?

McStyle
10-09-2004, 08:30 PM
nearly finished :)
http://home.arcor.de/onestyle/Art/rockman3.jpg
hope he dones't look female anymore.
I added some powerupdates:
first his plasmangun
second two kinds of swords.
both at the same time doesn't look good, i know. it's just to show them.

anyway. i think i'll give him a mouth for some facial expressions

and here's the problem with his hands. at the front viw the look ok. but at the side it just look wrong. not human enough.
http://home.arcor.de/onestyle/Art/rockman%20glove.jpg
at all i'm satisfied with the hands. but it could be done better :D

Elmdorz
10-10-2004, 02:39 AM
wow thats very nice

Frank Dodd
10-10-2004, 10:04 AM
The form of the hand makes a good base but I think the basic problem is that it is apparently gloved with a gauntlet but looks too thin, gloves generally disguise the subtle shapes in the hand, hiding the ribbed appearance of the fingers and the bulbous base of the thumb, they do however make the fingers and thumb much thicker than what we can see here. I still think that the base of the thumb is too narrow too where it should taper out more widely.

McStyle
10-10-2004, 05:14 PM
some changes and colors
http://home.arcor.de/onestyle/Art/rockman4.jpg
-Frank Dodd
thanks, I think the gloves look better with thicker fingers and the change on thumb.

new problem to solve
i mentioned that i wanted to add some facial expressions, so i have to model out his mouth. but now there are ugly lines visible in the smooth render. how can i prevent them?
http://home.arcor.de/onestyle/Art/rockman%20head.jpg

Matix.Z
10-11-2004, 10:24 PM
I have a similar problem when it comes to smoothing out the face, for facial animation with my low poly models. For some reason I get similar odd deformations in the face, such as this Rockman model. I appreciate if someone could answer McStyle question. Also what 3D software are you using (3DS Max, Maya, Lightwave, etc) ?!

the_podman
10-11-2004, 10:45 PM
Hey, missed out on this WIP. Looks really kick-ass. I love Rockman!

As far as the facial animation problem, I have found that adding an extra circle loop around the lips seems to help me. If you are using MAYA, try using lattices to deform the mouth and make the different expressions, then duplicate and delete the original with lattice. The reason being is that when I move around verts to make expressions with a low-poly mesh, I get those lines and when I do it with a lattice, I don't. I dunno. Helps for me anyway.
Also if you're using MAYA, create a bottom camera and isolate the face only. The bottom view is one of those views that often gets neglected, but you can really see lots of topology errors by looking from the bottom up. The reason why is because from the top viewport, you can't see the chin too well cause the forehead and nose are in the way. If you shape the chin bone and face to "arch" a little(from the bottom view), you'll get less of those hard edge shadows appearing.

Take my advice with a grain of salt, as I'm a newbie in every sense of the word. lol

-pod
Current character (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=173513&goto=newpost)
First character (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=164776)

McStyle
10-12-2004, 08:54 PM
-podman
thanks, i'll try to take care bout your tips :)

rockman will be the first character i'll try to animate. but i've got some problems.
at first, are these IK-Handles really nessesary? or usable in games?
cause sometimes the handles deform in a strange way.
second question is how to connect the shoulder bone to the rest. cause you can only connect root bones. but i've startet the spinal column at the legs. so i only can connect the legs to the spinal. but how to connect the arms?

the_podman
10-12-2004, 11:03 PM
Yes, IK handles will be VERY important. If this is your first animation, go with simple FK arms but DEFINATELY IK legs. It will save you a ton of time if you set it up right. Idealy, an IK/FK switcher arm setup is best. FK will be a pain when the hands need to "stick" to something like pushing a wall or grabbing, that's what IK arms is best for.

Are you using MAYA, and you don't want to build the rigg, you are in luck. The new BONUS TOOLS 6 that alias has released has got a ton of autorigging and autoskeltal setups. All for free.
Another excellent autorigger is CREATURE TOOLS from http://www.ant-online.co.uk/

The reason why your IK is bugging out is probably because you don't have a pole vector constraint on it.
For some very simlple rigging tuts, go to:
http://www.jawa9000.com/technical/ (http://www.jawa9000.com/technical/)

The shoulder should connect to one extra clavicle joint before it hits the spine. This will help top reposition the shoulder when It's in an awkward position(it happens while animating).

Oh yeah, don't forget, even though you can only have one main root joint, you can always branch out from other joints. Remember, a child can still be the parent of many children, but children can only have ONE parent. So, you can have joints branch out from all kinds of places as long as they are ALL linked to ONE heirarchy, meaning, there is one joint that;s the boss of them all, then you are fine. My rigg imported to UnrealED and ran the animations fine.

If you spend some time with the rigg, it will save you a TON of headaches when animating. :)


Rigging and animating can be a pain at first but once you get the hang of it, it's very rewarding to see your creations actually move. If you want to see how I set up my riggs, you can go here:
http://www.gamingartist.com/viewtopic.php?t=531



Anyhow, hope this all helps :)

-pod
My current crap (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=1633694&posted=1#post1633694)

McStyle
10-16-2004, 09:56 PM
first of all podman, thanks :)
after couple of days and lot's of tutorials i think i'm more familiar to rigging and skinning. but there are some basic things i can't really figure out how to manage.
just take this tutorial

http://www.jawa9000.com/technical/foot-roll/foot-roll.htm#figure04

"Snap the pivot of this group by hitting the insert key, hold down the v key and move the pivot to the ball joint"

it doesn't work. i select the the ik handle out of the group. take the move tool and hit the insert key. into the move tool, the yellow square turn into a cycle. i think everything should be ok. but now i try to move the pivot out of the joint/group into the ball joint. but not only the pivot is moving, also the joint. and i don't know why. or am i wrong and the joint should move? in genereall the joint is following the pivot. also in other tutorials the took the pivot out of the joint. for example behind the joint.

hope anyone can help me cause it's really depressing :sad:

KevinKraeer
10-16-2004, 10:29 PM
I'm not familiar with that particular tute.

I hate to just send you to another tute, but this is a really good one. I use it for every single Character I've ever done, inlcuding RoboCop:

http://www.highend3d.com/maya/tutorials/realtimechar1/

It takes you through a similar set-driven key foot roll, as well as spine controls and stuff.

plus, if you get stuck I can definitely help you because I've done this one 147 million times.

Good luck!

McStyle
10-17-2004, 01:06 AM
haven't thought of using your help so fast, but anyway i need you :D

"Add a control attribute for the pole vector. On the CntrlLankle add two attributes, the LPVtransX and LPVtransY."

the secound sentence is clear. i have to type the two attributes at the bottom of the attribute editor of CntrlLankle and then hit "load Attributes", right?
but what kind of control attribute i have to use at the pole vector? should i just load "control attribute" ?
maybe the question sounds stupid but if you aren't that familiar to that stuff it's sometimes really hard to understand.

one additional question:
i have to add the attributes at the register CntrlLankle or CntrlLankleShape?



until now the tutorial seems to be nice. thanks kgkraeer

the_podman
10-17-2004, 04:04 AM
"Snap the pivot of this group by hitting the insert key, hold down the v key and move the pivot to the ball joint"

it doesn't work. i select the the ik handle out of the group. take the move tool and hit the insert key. into the move tool, the yellow square turn into a cycle. i think everything should be ok. but now i try to move the pivot out of the joint/group into the ball joint. but not only the pivot is moving, also the joint. and i don't know why. or am i wrong and the joint should move? in genereall the joint is following the pivot. also in other tutorials the took the pivot out of the joint. for example behind the joint.

hope anyone can help me cause it's really depressing :sad:
The thing that you are doing wrong is selecting the IK out of the group. You have to move the pivot point of "the group", not the IK itself. When they say "group", they are refering to a group node in the Hypergraph. The "group" is the thing that the pivot point needs to be moved. Also, when you hit "insert" you can only move it by translating the little handles with the LMB. Otherwise, if you use the middle circle part, it sometimes takes you "out" of the group. That's why it's crucial to select the group from the Hypergraph before you hit insert and move the pivot.

The tutorial that kgkraeer is referring to is also a very good tut and I have used this rigg many times. Espcially the spine method on that tut is very good. One problem with that tut though is that it's a little outdated and the pole vector portion of the tut doesn't seem to work on Maya 5 and 6.(At least not for me). Also, you don't need to do the part with the planes attached to the feet to prevent "sliding" because now, since MAYA 4 or 5, they have "sticky" as an attribute for IK handles that does the same thing. You might want to try Creature Tools if you are having problems. I use that sometimes too.

You can email me with any questions and I can walk you through the process although I won't be here tommorow(sunday).
(rodbrett@nyc.rr.com)

Also, don't know what your schedule is like but I am free on Monday from 10:00Am to 6:00Pm eastern time if you want to contact me with AIM. My screen name is "rod in the pod".

Hey, if you really get frustrated with it, I can build you a rigg for it myself no problem if you want. Been rigging a lot these days.

I feel your pain, though, Mcstyle. When you are new to rigging, many of the tutorials out there are NOT clear at all to non-tech guys. Most rigging tuts are aimed at TDs and not artists and they often need things explained in much more simpler terms. It was only until I went to a rigging class that things became very clear to me.

Anyhow, I hope you can get rockman running(literally) as it would be very cool to see some animation on him.

-pod

McStyle
10-28-2004, 05:40 PM
long time ago, but i've tried to work on the model. the skeleton should be nearly done. pretty simple one, but it should work :D. i just have to do the weightskinning.
also i've tried some shell shading.
http://home.arcor.de/onestyle/Art/rockman%20cell.jpg

Dieblein
10-29-2004, 01:39 AM
new problem to solve
i mentioned that i wanted to add some facial expressions, so i have to model out his mouth. but now there are ugly lines visible in the smooth render. how can i prevent them?
http://home.arcor.de/onestyle/Art/rockman%20head.jpg
Its simple, delete those faces and redo them but in the opposite direction. The smooth tries to follow the direction of the triangles. Whenever there is this line you should delete some faces and try replacing the triangles in an different order. Hopefully you got me right. Dont delete the vertices only delete and add the faces again in an different order (There are only 2 ways of placing 2 triangles to form a face, |/| and |\| )

Hope you got me ;)

McStyle
10-29-2004, 05:31 PM
i just added a additional row around the mouth. this also fixed the problem. :)

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