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chrismoose
10-05-2004, 10:07 AM
Hi,

you want to spend money now, coz...You've read all the little tuts you've found ( everywhere:) ) but now feel you want to read/learn something with more substance. so... a list please of all the painter 8 compatible sources of info: That must deal with a painterly approach, no lessons on photo manipulation/editing or photo over painting...purely artistic, start from scratch no paint over, lessons to buy!! That kind of leaves out most of the books apart from seegmillers and some fantasy art ones. but they are sparse on the painter info.

a few places to buy such things i've come up with are;
in no particular order;
d'artiste - book,
gnomon - cd,
artistry - cd,

and i'm dry:sad: .
i know there must be more places to go to, im sure of a web site where you can buy painter 8 watercolor lessons on CD. so a list of more places to look into would be good. specify whether its a book or cd and on which web site if its a bit unknown.
cheers.
chris.

chrismoose
10-05-2004, 12:43 PM
replying to my own thread:sad:

but i've found some more;

vtc.com - videos. a bit too much of everything not enough painting
electic academy - website. no more info at this time
helen yancy.com - watercolor cd oils - not sure if its paintover work though.
jeremy sutton - book...possibilities

continue please...
regards,
chris.

DigArts
10-05-2004, 04:23 PM
Hi,

you want to spend money now, coz...You've read all the little tuts you've found ( everywhere:) ) but now feel you want to read/learn something with more substance. so... a list please of all the painter 8 compatible sources of info: That must deal with a painterly approach, no lessons on photo manipulation/editing or photo over painting...purely artistic, start from scratch no paint over, lessons to buy!! That kind of leaves out most of the books apart from seegmillers and some fantasy art ones. but they are sparse on the painter info.

chris.Reality Check:

Painter is a relatively small market (at least for paying customers). It's sufficiently small IMO that you don't see the usual Painter books anymore.

Once upon a time, three or four different books appeared following the release of each new version of Painter (Sperling, Droblas, Pendarvis, etc). Those days are long gone. After a certain point in the late '90s, I doubt enough people purchased them.

Karen Sperling still offers PDF and in-person lessons, but not books. Jinny sometimes offers lessons on using Painter. The same for the online academies, but even these are problematic because Corel competes for what market there is with its CD.

Point is, it's very difficult to make a living teaching Painter when the market is so small and Corel offers a competing product they pitch to everyone buying Painter. As for techniques, artists are amongst the most secretive. From what I know, they always have been.

Still, there's some stuff out there, just not much. We offer some detailed tutorials because they help our customers use our products. Nowadays though, with times tougher than before, it's hard to find people willing to give their time or knowledge for pennies.

My opinions only, and good luck.

DB

chrismoose
10-05-2004, 08:40 PM
hey DA,

not sure about the 'reality check' phrase. yep, i'm familiar with k.sperling. Any more?:)
You mentioned 'we', do you do something that could be suitable for me?

regards,
chris

p.s. has anyone ever come up with the message 'do you really want to convert this large private scrap to clipboard' when working with painter 8? i have been copying and pasting into the same image. - its just weird:shrug:

oh and see the uncompress tick box, whats it all for - if the riff is still multi layered isnt it already uncompressed, its obviously a programming thing, but why the massive increase in file size. there is no info in the literature. so no 'read the manual' line please Jinny:love:

see yaaaa!!!

kraal
10-05-2004, 09:09 PM
compressed has nothing to do with layers..... compressed means the file is compressed (such as a zip file) and uncompressed when opened.....

as far as your search for 'the ultimate' lesson is i dont think their can be.....painter is an idvidual expression tool just like paiting and drawing.

DigArts
10-05-2004, 10:07 PM
hey DA,

not sure about the 'reality check' phrase. yep, i'm familiar with k.sperling. Any more?:)
You mentioned 'we', do you do something that could be suitable for me?


Just meant that the Painter market may appear larger than it is.

You specified watercolor and cloning, which we (me and the dog (http://www.gardenhose.com/images/vexed.jpg)) don't emphasize. Nevertheless, you can check out what we offer here (http://www.gardenhose.com/tutorials.htm).

Have fun.

theCloudmover
10-06-2004, 01:26 AM
A book that I've found brilliant in teaching Painter is PainterBon (http://animenation.com/494775222x.html) by Katsuya Terada. Unfortunately, it's in Japanese.

However, it's lavishly illustrated with step by step illustrations. I think if you know your way around the program you can easily figure out what he's doing.

BTW There are TONS of Japanese anime "How to" books centered around Painter. Those guys are doing some of the most brilliant artwork being produced today, most of them with Painter.

chrismoose
10-06-2004, 02:48 PM
Just meant that the Painter market may appear larger than it is.

DA.
very true, though some stuff can be found. it's just - is this it? if it is then it would be decision time.

No cloning! purity only.:thumbsup: - i'm really getting into these emoticon things!!!
and yes i've come across your tree stuff before. as the blood donor campaigns say - need more!

Kraal;
so youre saying that internally painter uses a zip style compression system? and is this where the/any crash problems painter has, comes from? or the riff corruption probs?

as far as your search for 'the ultimate' lesson is i dont think their can be.....painter is an idvidual expression tool just like paiting and drawing.

true, true, but (talking and thinking about the cyber world only here) when a traditional artist wants to get a boost of whatever; moral, learning, exposure, they could go to a local group or college etc to get out of their rut they are in (which is what i'm feeling). And i'm all alone here:sad: , drawing by myself for myself. FOR NOW.

Now i know b4 you say it, i could use the forums here, after all its what they are for, one might want to do as much for yourself and that does include reading/watching/learning other stuff, before launching myself.

cloudmover: interesting, but i've looked into anime but it aint something im too interested in. Ta anyway.

Well, thanks for all the replys and when i'm ready i might post a pic and watch the flame wars start!!Against me!!:twisted: , but then where would i post.. if its in another forum (i.e. 2D wip) and not here , then whos to say that the people who matter, thats you guys reading this by the way, would see it?! after all we are in the painter forum for specifically painter users, not the 2d forum where people (me) go to look at all the purdy pictures!
Yes anticipating your possible answer - which could be - "in the 2d forum all types of drawing experts would see and critic it and help you". but their answers could vear away from our way of thinking and working - thats why we chose painter after all instead of photoshop/OC etc.

so for now i will sign off .

best regards to you all,

Chris.

theCloudmover
10-06-2004, 04:11 PM
cloudmover: interesting, but i've looked into anime but it aint something im too interested in. Ta anyway.


LOL You don't know what you're missing. In any event, this is a Painter Step by Step Movie (http://pub.idisk-just.com/fview/yXHjNLHVpBso9lL-VEQfXqYr2ITSSckEFsS7WcyyqHV77j72bqgN5d9g7OukqyFo/cGFpbnRlcnNjcmlwdA.mov) of Katsuya Terada painting a dinosaur from scratch. It's about 1MB. This guy is a MASTER illustrator in the tradition of Mobius. We could all learn something from him.

chrismoose
10-06-2004, 09:01 PM
cloudmover,

Katsuya Terada looks interesting. nice mov. i have come across lots of little movies like that. i'll have to look into this some more.

had a look at your site also...very nice work!

thanks
chris

Nolita
10-08-2004, 03:38 PM
Sorry but I had a severe urge to jump in here. I find that what I learn through books for one medium or genre helps with other mediums and genres. For example I have books on traditional painting, I simply change opacity using layers, and sometimes gel, and I wind up with, well, glazes. I have books on photoshop, and find they help too. I do think that not liking the genre of anime/manga might not be a good reason to avoid tutorials and books about it. I have learned about certain painting techniques(photoshop>painter) from anime tutorials, and also for drawing wings. I then add my own touches and details where I want them.


I have this one book on tonal contrasts, will look up the title and author if anyone's interrested, I really just use the info inside and rarely think about the name of the author. Anyhow it's a series of lessons for creating dimension through using tonal contrasts, with a section on color theory. What's cool about it, is that the projects were all made using things like Prismacolor markers, or oil paint, or pastels. I follow the instructions but use painter and the results are the same, get it? I mean, except for technical aspects like resolution, resaturation, etc. the name brand isn't necessarily important. For myself, I love the way Painter behaves. The way the brush strokes can stay seperate, but if I use one of my favorite smeary variants or a self-made brush, the colors and strokes can smear and blend together, if I didn't I'd be strictly a Photoshop girl.

I rambled on and on there. But basically I'm just saying, don't let the brand name fool you. Also don't let the medium, or genre fool you. The most useful lessons and tutorials are useful across the board.

Funny example, a lot of people think Linda B. uses Photoshop, and Socar Myles uses Painter, because Linda's style is very smooth, while Socar's is very painterly, but the opposite is true.

Really and truly, "it ain't what you do it's the way that you do it, that's what gets results".

I'm not yet comfortable with digital(been over a year too), I'm still learning and because of this I still haven't finished a single digital pic. So I use layers all the time(something Seegmiller would surely suggest), but then there's Anry(I think he's practically a master of Painter) I don't think he uses any layers.

Then there's Kay Allen(she's over at Epilogue), anyway, as far as illustrators go, she's pretty darned successful. I mean she gets tons and tons of commissions. She learned from Photoshop tutorials, but she uses Paint Shop Pro, version 4 to boot.

Sure it's nifty having stuff specifically for Painter, I'm a perpetual brush and tutorial collector. But if a book or even tutorial, only has the same info you would get from a Photoshop book or tutorial, with a few and terms changed(heck you do that automatically in your head if you have even tried Photoshop), to fit the application Painter, then what's the point?

chrismoose
10-08-2004, 11:34 PM
Nolita,

Hi,
thanks for the post. Dont get me wrong i've tried/looked into the manga anime genre, polycarbon site etc and its good but just not me!! i perfer tea, not coffee - its just me!!

"Really and truly, "it ain't what you do it's the way that you do it, that's what gets results"."

i agree, but if you had the chance to sit with a painter (assuming you havent, coz i havent) and watch them work, quite in depth - would'nt you?
the little walkthrough of "my wife by arseny gustov" was good but the oppertunity to sit behind them and ask Q's or listen to them talk themselves through it would be great. I wonder what Lunatique was thinking when painting his wifes portrait - apart from "I'd better not mess this up or the missus will kill me!!" - perhaps more of his particular thoughts are in that new book?!
thats what i was asking for - more involved 'lessons' as you could get from a one way book or DVD.

Thanks for your post, dont be a stranger - its lonely on the web and i'm scared of spiders:scream: .

regards,
chris

Lunatique
10-09-2004, 04:08 AM
Nolita,

I wonder what Lunatique was thinking when painting his wifes portrait - apart from "I'd better not mess this up or the missus will kill me!!" - perhaps more of his particular thoughts are in that new book?!


More like, "If I mess this up, I'll kill myself." :D

In the book, I talk about not only the techniques, but also why I made the decisions I made based on my personal aesthetic standards. For example, in the Ordinary Heroes tutorial, I swapped out the long-haired warlock for an albino assassin--and I talk about why I did it. In the portrait of Elena, I talk about painting to flatter your subject being the most important objective for that particular piece, and why/how I changed certain things in order to achieve that goal.

If you want my opinion on the best learning material, here's what I mentioned on my website:
Books I recommend to artists of any level:

Alla Prima: Everything I know About Painting-- By Richard Schmid

Timeless Techniques for Better Oil Paintings-- By Tom Browning

Harley Brown's eternal truths for every artist - By Harley Brown & Lewis Barrett Lehrman

Any of the books by Andrew Loomis (Find them free at http://www.fineart.sk/anat.htm for free! Some of these books cost a fortune since they've been out of print for decades, so if you're smart, you should download them and study them. Loomis is considered one of the greatest teachers in illustration history, and his books are gems of knowledge. If you are serious about being an artist, you really should read his books from cover to cover.)

Drawing the Head and Figure-- By Jack Hamm

These books will help you tremendously, regardless of what you think the contents are from the title. You will gain incredible amount of knowledge from them that could be applied to any form of visual art. Just because one of them might have the phrase "oil painting" in the title does not mean you only need it if you painted in oils. All these books contain very precious knowledge that applies to any medium or style.

To use your tools more efficiently, I can only say this: practice practice practice. If your tools are traditional, there are entire libraries of art instruction books in publication. If your tools are digital, there are not only books, but lots of online tutorials, not to mention the owner's manual that came with your software.

chrismoose
10-09-2004, 01:01 PM
Lunatique

Thanks for that, i'll have to look up some of these. i have already downloaded from the saveloomis.org site and am currently layering a riff like mad full of mannakin and figure sketches!!

take care,
regards,
chris

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