WIP: Snails (need help).

[Aurety]

Well some old pictures I did, but I have progressed now. Soon a update with a new shaders and I hope a new shell.

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/escargot_r1.jpg

and some obsolete pictures during the workflow :


http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/escargot_r2.jpg

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/escargot_r3.jpg

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/escargot_r4.jpg

I follow my experimentation...
I was no happy by the speed texture I did so I worked tonight with my precious SLA and this is the result. The SLA with red cross are the shaders I keep at the moment for the shell. Any comments or crits are welcome :wave: :

Full Res( 240 ko ), clic here (http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/tex_carapace_gd.jpg) :

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/tex_carapace_pt.jpg

[Damsel]

I love the image above on the glass ball. Beautiful texturing and lighting! Very nice models also!

[Leebre]

Very nice Aurety. Is that SSS you are using on the snail in the escargot_r4.jpg? It looks great. I'm sorry, but what were you wanting help with? It looks like you have things under control. The only thing I see that is lacking is some slime trails. The shell procedurals are wonderful...absolutely organic and natural looking. Keep us updated on your progress!

[Aurety]

Thank you Damseel.

Leebert, I need help to know how to modelise a good shell. The parametric function seem to be the good solution but I was the recurrent dunce's cap http://media.tuttifiesta.com/article/12971.small.gif in mathematic curses and english too, and... and... You know what I mean... :D
Well ok, I need the Fibonnaci suite but how to obtain this with function. My drawing give a just 2D curves, but how for the Z(t). I'll expect for a genius of Mathematics, or an amator with a big brain to explain how to shape this form.
I used a dummy shape for Shaders, and now I will pass off this problem. :banghead:

Yes I uses SSS for the R4_Picture, and changed for Fresnel for the black ball Picture.

Thanks Leebert.

[marshalartist]

Hi Aurety,
I really like your stuff, I would just use a plain old hypernurb object.
I did this shell years ago, I was going for a more catoon look but you get the idea,

Peter

http://www.marshalstudios.com/temp/Snap4.jpg
http://www.marshalstudios.com/temp/Snap3.jpg
http://www.marshalstudios.com/temp/Snap2.jpg

[Aurety]

wow ! Nice model ! :eek: But you have the same problem of mine...
on this page, we can find the ratio to shape the curve...
http://www.ies.co.jp/math/java/misc/oum/oum.html

[flingster]

does this help?
http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/surfaces/shell/

[flingster]

or this.
http://www.3d-meier.de/tut3/Seite17.html

[Aurety]

I can't use these formulas but I will ask with a specialist we have on FC4D forum. Really thanks Flingster.
Another link : http://www.notam02.no/~oyvindha/loga.html

:eek:

[brammelo]

I can't use these formulas but I will ask with a specialist we have on FC4D forum.
Hmm... Base80?

[base80]

Well I've tried brammelo
But the mathematical formula is not good because it does not take into account the opening of the shell(the bent part).
It becomes to static.

3d-meier has a plugin but it is not on page 17 as written above but on page 18 (seashell)

[Aurety]

3D-Meier isn't good too. Always the same problême. I will try to put one of this and morph to what I want. Thanks Guys ! I will make an update for the final snail shader and surely the final picture.
Thanks :thumbsup:

[flingster]

sorry guys...i'm missing what the problem is here...is it that basically you want the type of shells examples posted in the links...BUT crucially the central rotation has to be ofset or at least not central? please clarify for me..cheers.

[Aurety]

With my poor english ! :D
So I did a drawing !
http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/path_escargot.jpg

[flingster]

ok i understand now bud...thanks for the visual..
do you have ditools btw? eg diparametric
seashell preset...and change system to sixsphere might be something more like you want.
its also set slightly depthwise also.

[flingster]

maybe can translate some of the settings..doubt it...but i'll post anyways if they help any maths wizard.

[edfenner]

You are right you need to incorporate the Fibonacci sequence into your equation. I think this can be done with Binet's formula. I had it worked out once, but do not have my notes handy. If you know the number of rotaions the sequence will allow you to determine the sizes needed for that shape.
I will try and look for that information tonight - if you are still in need I will post it.

ed

[Aurety]

Aaarggghh Flingster, I don't have Ditools. I know it is a marvelous plug, I see today how much it is for my case. I look about your formulas ! Thanks ! Now, I have the hope, It's possible ! :love:

Thanks edfenner, I pray about your test ! :D

Thanks guys ! :thumbsup:

[Aurety]

I reshaped the snail and work to another texture... It is'nt boned for the moment.

Here are the update pictures...

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/esc_rend_fin1.jpg

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/esc_rend_fin2.jpg

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/text_rend_fin1.jpg

[base80]

Splendid work Aurety
This sure looks nice!!

[flingster]

the lip on the snail is rounded its neither a lip or a definite rounded shape..does this make sense..other than that its fantastic stuff.
take a look at some ref for what i mean for the lip or end edge of the shell.
http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=0000+0000+0102+0211

http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=0000+0000+0102+0243

http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=0000+0000+0102+0473

i guess there is variance in all snails anyways and not being an expert i can't tell whether its always there or not.
the materials you have are very good bud..especially when you look at the ref's the only other thing is the skin surface looks more wet/damp and the bumps are much larger and do have a pattern to them..especially towards the floor contact parts at the edges.

good good work as usual bud...enjoy watching your stuff.:thumbsup:

[Aurety]

:eek: thanks for the refs Flingster... I will try to do a shader like this ! Ok for the lip too, I need adjustement. My ref for the shader is a snail I took in my garden this morning but it's young...
Thanks again ! :applause:

[Aurety]

:bounce: Klr_ben, a frenchcinema4d user find the formula for the shell ( Edit : I change the formula parameters to increase the size and shape ).

X(t)=20*e^((0.8/pi)*log(0.618)*t)*cos(t)
Y(t)=20*e^((0.8/pi)*log(0.618)*t)*sin(t)
Z(t)=20*e^((1.4/pi)*log(0.618)*t)*0.2

Tmin= -16
Tmax= 18
Samples=30
cocher cubic interpolation

Increase/decrease "1.4" to change the height.

[edfenner]

Glad you found the formula - I had been looking for my files and could not find them. The .618 part looks familiear though!
The textures and modeling are looking great.

ed

[Aurety]

nice to you to search ! Ed...

PS: For your account on FC4D, our webmaster say your account is ok and ready to go ! Normally...

[flingster]

:bounce: Klr_ben, a frenchcinema4d user find the formula for the shell ( Edit : I change the formula parameters to increase the size and shape ).

X(t)=20*e^((0.8/pi)*log(0.618)*t)*cos(t)
Y(t)=20*e^((0.8/pi)*log(0.618)*t)*sin(t)
Z(t)=20*e^((1.4/pi)*log(0.618)*t)*0.2

Tmin= -16
Tmax= 18
Samples=30
cocher cubic interpolation

Increase/decrease "1.4" to change the height.
bravo....very cool...thank them..:applause: :applause:

[brammelo]

cocher cubic interpolation

which of course means that you have to click on the checkbox to activate cubic interpolation ;)

Aurety, ces gens, ils ont besoin d'une traduc complète. Bon résultat - ze zuis vière de doi! I hope you can finish this piece, it's starting to look really good.

Ciao,
BaRa

[Aurety]

:D I forgot this, thanks Bart !
With the flingster refs, I have to reevaluate my texture and I have good results. Update soon...
And now I have a good shell shape. :)

Sinon comment ca va toi ??

[brammelo]

Sinon comment ca va toi ??
Ben, j'travail trop, j'ai besoin d'vacances. Pour l'instant, le job, c'est moi et vice versa. Ca me dérangerai pas de changer cela.

Ciao,
BaRa

[base80]

Bart donne moi une partie de ton boulot.
Comme ça tu peux partir en vacances plus tot.

[brammelo]

Merci Olivier, mais je te garanti que mon chef me massacre si j'ferai cela. Hélas, le monde n'est pas un paradis .... :)

This is actually quite funny. A Dutch guy (base80) and a Flemish guy (BaRa) are communicating in French because of another guy (Aurety), who himself is half Breton (cultural minority in France). And all this on an English forum. If someone wants to tune in in Polish, then please do ;)

[flingster]

Merci Olivier, mais je te garanti que mon chef me massacre si j'ferai cela. Hélas, le monde n'est pas un paradis .... :)

This is actually quite funny. A Dutch guy (base80) and a Flemish guy (BaRa) are communicating in French because of another guy (Aurety), who himself is half Breton (cultural minority in France). And all this on an English forum. If someone wants to tune in in Polish, then please do ;)
this is definitely the beauty of forums like this...diversity keeps it interesting especially when you look at others work, keeps things fresh and creative because of these differing backgrounds...its all good..just wish i could understand some of it unfortunately a problem with concentrating in french lessons at school...heh heh.:thumbsup:

[rendermania]

If someone wants to tune in in Polish, then please do ;)
Ich will eine bunte Schildkroete...

[bolek]

glupi jestes

[Aurety]

hmmm ! I will update soon, for sure ! :shrug:

[Atwooki]

Aurety:
Nothing here to help on the 'Fibonacci series, but perhaps some useful refs:

http://www.occ.cccd.edu/faculty/mperkins/zoo-review/snails/files/big-vs-small-1-lg.jpg
http://www.occ.cccd.edu/faculty/mperkins/zoo-review/snails/files/big-vs-small-2-lg.jpg
http://www.occ.cccd.edu/faculty/mperkins/zoo-review/snails/files/big-vs-small-3-lg.jpg
http://www.hoxie.org/amazon/SNAIL2.JPG
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/900000/images/_900869_snail300.jpg
http://www.duke.edu/~ajs15/App_Trail/Wildlife/Reptiles%20and%20critters/land%20snail.JPG (http://www.duke.edu/%7Eajs15/App_Trail/Wildlife/Reptiles%20and%20critters/land%20snail.JPG)
http://www.bmyersphoto.com/BWXRAY/landsnail2.jpg
http://www.ndi4all.org/grade45/images/Land%20snail.jpg
http://rubbercat.net/misc/snail2.jpg
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/cropprot/images/ebgsnail.jpg
http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/imgsep01/rhradula.jpg

cheers

Atwooki

[Aurety]

Atwooki !!! Really thanks ! very usefull stuff ! :thumbsup:

What is rhradula.jpg ?? :eek:

[Atwooki]

Aucun problème, mon ami, et bonne chance avec elle !

glad to be of help ;)

edit: 'radula' shows the innermouth; might be handy for dynamics/mechanics :shrug:
The bit I was looking for was the 'fringe' around the foot; such a lovely feature of snails don't you think?
heck they DO have some :D

Atwooki

[BazC]

Fabulous work again Aurety, those shaders are extraordinary! Extremely natural looking!

I wonder if you would mind clarifying how you've created the shell? I'm comparatively new to Cinema and totally clueless about Maths lol!

I assume you're still using a cone primitive? Modified with a Formula deformer? If so I wonder if you would mind posting a screengrab of your deformers settings? Because I can't get it to do anything! :o( - Baz

[Aurety]

Of course BazC,
here the file from Klr_Ben !! Don't hesitate to modify the values inside the formulas with little steps of variation. Be gentle ! :D

You can add a fillet at the entry hole ( you must to remove the start cap ) in settings extrudenurbs in convexe way.

http://klrben02.free.fr/c4d/escargot.c4d

http://klrben02.free.fr/c4d/escargot.jpg

[edfenner]

The original file was posted and the shell was created using a sweep nurbs and two splines - a circle and a formula spline. The key to getting the natural spiral and shape of the shell is in having the correct formula in the formula spline

ed

[BazC]

Ah! Thanks very much to both of you! :o) - Baz

[Aurety]

here's a small update... need some improvements like SSS and some details ( the horns textures )... The snail is not boned for the moment so he straight the pose.

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/esc2_1.jpg

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/esc2_2.jpg

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/esc2_3.jpg

[Ollarin]

Wow! Very nice work there Aurety! Perfectus ohmygodus! :scream:

[flingster]

gotta agree its looking superb..:applause:

[BazC]

Wonderful!

[edfenner]

Fantastic! It has been a joy following this thread and development of your image!

ed

[manlio]

Really Fantastic! Good job!

[Aurety]

Wow ! Thanks !! :love:
I make a little break on the snail 'cause I prepare a tutorial for 3DAttack mag on SLA workflow and I've too much to do on this shader before it's really nice and I have some ideas to enhance it. Thank you for your kind words and to follow me ! :applause:

[Aurety]

Here's the last update for the snail. I closed tonight the tutorial for 3DAttack Mag. here the result for this. Thanks for those who follow me !

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/rendu8sss.jpg

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/rendu9sss.jpg

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/rendu10sss.jpg

[Cartesius]

Really superb job, Aurety, those shaders are excellent!

/Anders

[wesware]

Great job!

Always fun to see well done bugs. Is it an insect? Maybe not, I should look that up.
Anyway... Let's see what it looks like on a hot lightbulb! Probably need a new shader for that version, maybe some Storm tracer for steam.

[Cactus Dan]

Howdy,

Excellent job, Aurety. :bounce: Beautiful textures!

Wesware, I believe snails are mollusks.

Adios,
Cactus Dan

[flingster]

one for the pot...heh heh couldn't help myself..
fantastic job bud...quality work...you really got this shader business sorted in your work..good see.
:thumbsup:

[wesware]

Howdy,

Excellent job, Aurety. :bounce: Beautiful textures!

Wesware, I believe snails are mollusks.

Adios,
Cactus Dan
Hey! You just won the Golden Monkey!
From the dictionary: "Any of numerous aquatic or terrestrial mollusks of the class Gastropoda, typically having a spirally coiled shell, broad retractile foot, and distinct head."

OOOOOOH, I just wanna smash em'

[Aurety]

:love: Thanks for your kind words ! a mollusk ?? Cactus Dan, you said :eek: All this time for a mollusk ?? Wesware, I join you to smash them ! I'll prepare and finish my tut' and i'll come back to share the material, could be interesting, maybe ! Thanks again Flingster for your refs ? :applause:

[Cactus Dan]

Howdy,

You mean I guessed right? That one must've come from between the cobwebs of my brain.

Adios,
Cactus Dan

[Geonome]

Hi

There looking great, i like the way you've fixed the swirl from your original.
This may be straying off the topic a little but.....
i also am working on a snail ( although more cartoony ) for a banner add for a client,
but i just can't seem to make the shell swirl.
im using 3DsMax, so was jus wondering how you created yours so i could have a starting point.
anyhelp would be nice.

[Aurety]

Hi Geonome, I have no idea to explain how I will do the shell in 3DS Max, I don't know this software... But for my snail, I used formula :

X(t)=20*e^((0.8/pi)*log(0.618)*t)*cos(t)
Y(t)=20*e^((0.8/pi)*log(0.618)*t)*sin(t)
Z(t)=20*e^((1.4/pi)*log(0.618)*t)*0.2

Tmin= -16
Tmax= 18
Samples=30
Check "cubic interpolation"

Increase/decrease "1.4" to change the height.

find here my shell in obj format and 3DS, hope you can work with this. I follow your WIP too, and I love your cute snail ( if it's this one we have now on CGTalk ).

one obj file in lowpoly mod' and two in 3ds format : lowpoly and smoothed. Sorry I have no idea how to prepare for you these files.

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/shell.zip

[Damsel]

Thank you Aurety! That wil lbe fun to play with and see what I can do. :)

[Geonome]

Thanks alot!
Not many people are willing to share there work in this way ( the model itself ) so i appreciate it greatly.
This will help alot, again great work and keep it up.

Geonome.

[Pegasus]

Any one could share the C4D-Shader please.
This looks very interesting.....

I am wondering how it was realised.... :-)

[Geonome]

Hi

Just thought I'd post up what I got done after using your method of creating the shell and inspecting your model.
Was a bit tricky but I got there in the end, I had to use curved splines and lofts to get the final effect, but your model gave me the idea for the contour lines.
many thanks again.

Geonome.

[Pegasus]

I would be realy happy if somebody could share the shader of the house please! :-)

*/*/*

here's a small update... need some improvements like SSS and some details ( the horns textures )... The snail is not boned for the moment so he straight the pose.

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/esc2_1.jpg

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/esc2_2.jpg

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/esc2_3.jpg

[laurent]

you know, we eat those things around here.
and looking at your renders I'm getting hungry.

[duderender]

That is some great work. The shell is superb and my only crit is the slug doesn't look slimy enough. The specular seems too wide at least for a singular spec. You could try and do a reflective specular and use a wide and short height specular to add some 'glow'.

Once you nail the specular it will breathe to life its sliminess and then you've nailed it. I'm jealous.

[Aurety]

Thanks to all !! Duderender, you're right for the snail shader, I will try what you say, Thanks !
Pegasus : Sorry for the moment, I keep my shaders because I worked hard on them and they're not finals. Those pictures are a bit old, i'm actually here but need some improvments again.

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/rendu8sss.jpg

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/rendu9sss.jpg

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/rendu10sss.jpg

http://perso.club-internet.fr/analev/ordinaire/fc4d/escargot_v21.jpg

[Pegasus]

Thanks to all !! Duderender, you're right for the snail shader, I will try what you say, Thanks !
Pegasus : Sorry for the moment, I keep my shaders because I worked hard on them and they're not finals. Those pictures are a bit old, i'm actually here but need some improvments again.


No need to share... :-)
Here is my try. The Cinema shaders are just great!

http://www.mike-reiss.de/misc/cgtalk_shell_01.jpg

[Aurety]

Just great ! Now, use the diffuse channel to increase the lines ! :thumbsup:

[duderender]

@Aurety: that last snail image you posted is the closest yet!

[duderender]

Was chatting with Policarpo and he dug these up:
http://www.photogalaxy.co.uk/photos/Alpine%20White-3.jpg
http://www.astronomy-images.com/day-images/SeaOfCortez/snail.150.jpg

[boxy]

Cool I only just found this link - thanks for the lowdown, I was just scratching my head wondering how to do a snail shell :)
boxy

[boxy]

I know this thread is old but heres a c4d file of a variation on your shell formula. I removed all the overlapping bits and shaped it to suit my purpose. Its not perfect yet but now it is low res in a hypernurbs so should be easy to manipulate.
Cheers
Boxy

C4D FILE (http://www.savbox.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/posts/Shell.zip)

ref image:

http://www.savbox.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/posts/snail1.jpg

[Damsel]

Thanks Boxy, I like that. :-)

[boxy]

no sweat - coming here always solves a riddle for me, maybe it'll help cut someone elses deadline pressures :)
Boxy

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