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02-05-2002, 05:07 PM
Here's a game character I'm working on. It conforms to the PS2 game development specifics (maximum 2200 vertices, 46 bones in the object skeleton, bright green is used as transparencies in the textures etc).

http://www.classicgaming.com/hyperem/storage/wipgames.jpg

Any feedback would be welcome.

subagio
02-05-2002, 06:53 PM
Nice start! I'd suggest working more color variation into the model for maximum effect. It's hard to see what's going on in the pants texture, but I assume you're planning on doing more with it?

As for 'the PS2 spec', the PS2 having a completely programmable pipeline, this is highly variable. You can actually use a proper alpha channel for instance, rather than color keying. In fact, I can't think of anyone doing color keying at all atm.

Wanna post the wires also? Be nice to see what sort of topology you've got under there.

Be aware too that the memory space on a PS2 is rather limited, and you might be called on to make this 2 textures instead of 4. Multiple textures also pose a problem when batching, as a different texture means a scene change, not as big a problem on the PS2, but hell on the Xbox/Cube/PC.

--C

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02-14-2002, 06:25 PM
An update:

http://www.classicgaming.com/hyperem/storage/wipgames2.jpg

Jonny Bubonic
02-14-2002, 07:01 PM
I like the final result, but agree with the previous reply...2 textures would do fine. You could definately improve on your texture layout for the head section too...that much empty space makes me want to cry :) I'm working on a games project where the majority of characters use a 64x64 for the head and a single 128x128 for the rest of the body/arms/legs. Not ideal at all, but when I was working on pre-production I was using two 128s for each character which still gives a pretty good result.

Jonny Bubonic
02-14-2002, 07:09 PM
Sorry, just one more thing...looking again at the model, do you really need to use alpha on this model at all? The PS2 can handle a lot of polys, but its texture memory is pretty limited. I would suggest actually modelling the hair and keeping the texture as a normal bitmap or whatever, as alpha textures are more expensive memory-wise. By the time it's displayed at TV resolution those little fringes of hair would disappear anyway, so go a bit bolder. I know this sounds picky, but it all adds up in the end:)

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02-15-2002, 02:18 PM
I like the final result, but agree with the previous reply...2 textures would do fine.

Whoops, I forgot to mention. It's for a university project and the number of polys, textures, and joints were pre-defined in the design brief.

Thanks for the input. I'll definitely look into those texturing issues.

wanzai
02-15-2002, 10:32 PM
As we're developing for PS2, I'd like to add my 2 cents (with Euro, we finally have cents too ;) )

Do you really have 2179 vertices? Or 2179 triangles? My models usually have about 1000 verts, resulting in about 2000+ tris (while looking less edgy, frankly) Maybe you can post the wireframes?

I also think the textures are over-dimensioned. Since the PS2 has very limited texture RAM, my characters usually have only one 128x128 texture for the complete body incl. the head, as long as they don't have extra stuff like big armor or weapons (they get extra maps). Although 128x128 may seem pretty low at first (especially for PC measures), the PS2 does some decent texture filtering and consider the relatively low TV-resolution.

Hope this helps,
YC

Jonny Bubonic
02-15-2002, 10:51 PM
One more general comment..the amount of textures used per character is strictly determined by the type of game you're working on. Ours has LOADs of characters, so we have to be pretty stingy with the textures. On a one-on-one fighting game, like Soul Calibur for example, you could go crazy with the the textures, so your work hasn't gone to waste.
By the way, could you post up the finished ones when you're done? I wouldn't mind seeing them, if you can handle any more constructive (I hope) criticism.

suck
02-16-2002, 10:46 AM
Some general comments on PS2 development...

You can store full alpha information in 8bit targas if you have the right software. We use Optpix Imagestudio. this way you use no more vram than if you had no alpha at all.

While the Ps2 does only have 4mb of VRAM, it has ridiculously high bandwidth between main memory and VRAM... therefore it is feasible (and actually being done) that you can upload an entire bank of VRAM more than once per frame which effectively multiplies your VRAM. Considering that most people are using 8bit or 4bit maps, this means ps2 games shouldn't be as blurry as some unfortunately are.

Tristripping, as subagio mentioned before in another thread, is of paramount importance on ps2. If you model is strippable you can push up to 3x as many polygons. In a nutshell, the best way to ensure your model is strippable is to have your UV's be continuous. This means that each new polygon after the first can be defined simply as 1 additional vertex instead of 3.

46 bones! That is a bit high. I don't know where you read this spec, but 46 bones is pretty heavy. Maybe a fighting game would use this number, but even then I don't think it would be necessary. It is much cheaper CPU wise to do morph targets for areas like hands that would require oodles of bones.

Enough on the technical stuff... that's a nice looking model! If you get it looking good with each of those maps being 128x128 or less you're in business. I'm not crazy about the head map's UV layout as it wastes a bunch of space, but you've done well with painting it. Nice work.

bit

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02-17-2002, 04:42 PM
Do you really have 2179 vertices? Or 2179 triangles? My models usually have about 1000 verts, resulting in about 2000+ tris (while looking less edgy, frankly)

The model has 2179 vertices, most of which are used in the head and torso so it looks good in close-up. The legs and hands are a secondary concern, because it's very rare that an in-game camera focuses on these parts (hence the edgy profile of the character).

Maybe you can post the wireframes?

Here you go. :)

http://www.classicgaming.com/hyperem/storage/wire.jpg

I also think the textures are over-dimensioned. Since the PS2 has very limited texture RAM, my characters usually have only one 128x128 texture for the complete body incl. the head, as long as they don't have extra stuff like big armor or weapons (they get extra maps). Although 128x128 may seem pretty low at first (especially for PC measures), the PS2 does some decent texture filtering and consider the relatively low TV-resolution.
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46 bones! That is a bit high. I don't know where you read this spec, but 46 bones is pretty heavy.

Yeah I know. I also thought these specs all sounded a bit high for a game character. But like I said, it's for a school project and we were told what specs we had to use...

- No more than 2200 vertices (as they're counting in vertices, I assume polycount isn't an issue here)
- No more than 46 bones
- 4 textures, one for the head, three for the body. All 256x256 in 256 colour

By the way, could you post up the finished ones when you're done? I wouldn't mind seeing them, if you can handle any more constructive (I hope) criticism.

You mean the finished textures? I'll show you what I've done so far, because I've changed them slightly (there's more detail in the trousers and the head texture is a lot less wasteful).

http://www.classicgaming.com/hyperem/storage/texture.jpg

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