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View Full Version : Can you have Nurbs in Modo ?


peanut
09-28-2004, 12:23 AM
Just a quick question

Is Modo a poly only tool or do they have Nurbs support with good Nurbs tools ?

Nando
09-28-2004, 12:34 AM
modo is an extremely fast and clean polygonal and subdivision modeler
Its doesnt have any nurbs tools, and glad it doesnt. ;)

Rhino has that market cornered

Levitateme
09-28-2004, 02:21 AM
yeah thank god, there is no need for them. With modo sub d weighting, why would you ever need nurbs, ill say it again thank god no nurbs.

peanut
09-28-2004, 03:40 AM
Thanks for the input

im thinking about purchasing it real soon

onlooker
09-28-2004, 04:15 AM
There is nothing wrong with nurbs. It's just that Modo doesn't have them. But, it doesn't really matter. Polygons render faster, and I'm sure that nexus will render Sub-d with out a hitch.

I start many models in nurbs just for the sake of speed, and convert it to polygon after the painful part is over.

There are curve tools in Modo which I usually associate with nurbs, but the output has always been optional between Nurbs, Polygon, and Sub_d (in maya). Modo has your standard Bezier, then a Curve, *sketch, *tube, and *patch tools. I have not gotten into them yet, but they are there along with the lathe if you need to make a quick custom column, or vase, or something.


*no idea what these 3 do yet.

robin
09-28-2004, 04:59 AM
YOu cant be a serious modeler if you dont use Nurbs, your at most an Hobbist. If you still think that they "suck" just because its the trend, your a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y wrong at ILM when the director ask you that he needs a fully modeled fleshy looking alien for the next Terminator movie, you cant just turn around and say "Dude, sorry but i dont do Nurbs".

I still feel the irresistible need to lay my hands on Modo, i heard some seriously good stuff about it. :D

Sbowling
09-28-2004, 05:40 AM
YOu cant be a serious modeler if you dont use Nurbs, your at most an Hobbist. If you still think that they "suck" just because its the trend, your a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y wrong at ILM when the director ask you that he needs a fully modeled fleshy looking alien for the next Terminator movie, you cant just turn around and say "Dude, sorry but i dont do Nurbs".

I still feel the irresistible need to lay my hands on Modo, i heard some seriously good stuff about it. :D

You're joking, right? As far as the next Terminator movie, there shouldn't be one after the last one.

robin
09-28-2004, 05:47 AM
I dont care about the next terminator movie its an example

pumper
09-28-2004, 06:05 AM
well ... i do alll types of geometry... BUT iseriously thhink that NURB are HUUUUUge wate of time.... in all aspects ... not only modeling but texturing... rendering.... subdivison surfaces is teh way to go ... and even better T-spines...when they will become more integrated... there is serious reason for Weta dightal to switch form NURBS to SubD s for the last movie.... the golum tere was SubD

kursad_pileksuz
09-28-2004, 06:12 AM
at ilm they use nurbs, because they have not upgraded their technology yet :) not that it is the way to go, and most of their modelers are trained in nubrs otr atleast that is what they used for so long. in big studios changing pipeline takes a long time. i understand the nurbs hype, but i feel like there is little bit of being misinformed here. last time i heard they wanted to implement subd stuff at some point

lougandidas
09-28-2004, 07:49 AM
YOu cant be a serious modeler if you dont use Nurbs, your at most an Hobbist.
How many game companies model their characters or environments in Nurbs? Exactly.

nuclearfessel
09-28-2004, 07:53 AM
YOu cant be a serious modeler if you dont use Nurbs, your at most an Hobbist. If you still think that they "suck" just because its the trend, your a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y wrong at ILM when the director ask you that he needs a fully modeled fleshy looking alien for the next Terminator movie, you cant just turn around and say "Dude, sorry but i dont do Nurbs".

I still feel the irresistible need to lay my hands on Modo, i heard some seriously good stuff about it. :D so you are saying a place like Pixar using a Subdivision modeler is not professional?

and Weta using SubDs to model Gollum is also unprofessional?

peanut
09-28-2004, 03:24 PM
so you are saying a place like Pixar using a Subdivision modeler is not professional?

and Weta using SubDs to model Gollum is also unprofessional? Wheither you say that if Weta and/or Pixar uses Subd is irrelevant.

They use what best fit them for the task. Subd, Polys or nurbs all have their up and downs, they all have a place in 3d for specific jobs. Perso i go from nurbs and convert them to poly and finish in sub works for me but certainly not for big studio like Weta or Pixar, they have their own workflow.

danielkenobi
09-29-2004, 05:56 PM
so what is going on?? Robin do yo work for ILM or are you just gueesing?
I mean I am not a profecional but I have seen that poly can do prety much the same than nurbs.

onlooker
09-29-2004, 10:11 PM
Is this conversation going to have anything to do with the thread title again?

The answer is no. Modo does not have nurbs modeling tools.

End it.

If you guys want to argue about which way of modeling is your favorite, and your way is better than everybody else's take it into the modeling forum, or something.

AmbiDextrose
09-29-2004, 11:57 PM
I am primarily a NURBS modeler. That being said, I do not think Modo needs NURBS surface support. I does, however, need good curve (NURBS or Bezier) creation and editing support- things like adding control points, tension and bias adjustments at each control point, etc. support for linear curves, importing curves from files (maybe in the .OBJ import already). Modo is a polygon and sub-D modeler- it's not exclusively a sub-D modeler. The reason for this is that not you can't use box modelling in every situation. In other instances, it may be faster to create construction curves and create polygons by snapping to them or by lofting them together. Others modelers might not want to use or comfortable with box modeling altogether.

In the entertainment (and advertising) industry, a lot of shops are re-tooling their pipeline for sub-D. It may not happen overnight but the wheels are turning. However, outside this industry, NURBS (and it's cousins) surfaces are pretty much the norm, especially in product design, architecture, and manufacturing.

gustojunk
10-02-2004, 05:14 PM
...However, outside this industry, NURBS (and it's cousins) surfaces are pretty much the norm, especially in product design, architecture, and manufacturing.I absolutely agree with that point. I'm a product designer and use mostly Nurbs for detailed models, however I've been using more and more SubD models for '3d sketches' basically just as a fast way to make models just for viz and client aproval purposes. My currrent toolset is Rhino for Nurbs and 3DSMax and Silo for Sub-D. I'm still looking for something better for SubD. Silo is nice but extremely limited to work with dimesions and accuracy of forms. Max excels at this, however is waaaay to slow to be working on subd mode once the models start achieving certain level of detail. I'm watching the Modo theards and waiting for a demo so I can see how well this app will work for me.

In the meantime I'd like to say that Modo SHOULD support INTERACTION with Nurbs. What do I mean?

NURBS IN:
Being able to import native nurbs files (for instance Rhino files or al least Iges or Step files), even if the modeling workflow is SubD only, I find it useful to be able to bring in other geometry like components or other parts already created in nurbs as reference geometry. I can do that currently in Max with the NpowerRhino to Max plugin. This is not only omportant for Modo's current use (as reference geometry for modeling) but also for a future where Modo will have its own renderer so it should invite other geometry types to be rendered.

NURBS OUT: Same way than Maya allows to convert from SubD to nurb Patches, Modo should do the same to allows for Modo models to be exported to CAD packages. In my case (product design) this is vital to rebuild for engineering and manufacturing. OR even to CNC machine models made in modo.

I thing there is a strong need for a SDS package that can be used not only for character modeling but for mode controlled mechanical type of modeling ( more market share for developers to explore). However that market has some specific needs that no packaged to day has recognized. I hope somebody will sooner or later will, and I'm patiently waiting to see who that is...

Gustavo

AmbiDextrose
10-02-2004, 06:47 PM
My currrent toolset is Rhino for Nurbs Why am I not surprised :). I'm planning to upgrade to v 4.0 as soon as it's out- too many goodies to pass up.

In the meantime I'd like to say that Modo SHOULD support INTERACTION with Nurbs. What do I mean?

NURBS IN:
Being able to import native nurbs files (for instance Rhino files or al least Iges or Step files), even if the modeling workflow is SubD only, I find it useful to be able to bring in other geometry like components or other parts already created in nurbs as reference geometry. I can do that currently in Max with the NpowerRhino to Max plugin. This is not only omportant for Modo's current use (as reference geometry for modeling) but also for a future where Modo will have its own renderer so it should invite other geometry types to be rendered.

NURBS OUT: Same way than Maya allows to convert from SubD to nurb Patches, Modo should do the same to allows for Modo models to be exported to CAD packages. In my case (product design) this is vital to rebuild for engineering and manufacturing. OR even to CNC machine models made in modo.

I thing there is a strong need for a SDS package that can be used not only for character modeling but for mode controlled mechanical type of modeling ( more market share for developers to explore). However that market has some specific needs that no packaged to day has recognized. I hope somebody will sooner or later will, and I'm patiently waiting to see who that is... I whole-heartedly agree. I have a friend who bought Modo and it seems that curves cannot be edited (e.g. add knots, change bias and tension, delete knots, etc.) after the curve has been "dropped" (????). Also, it would be nice if other tools such as blending between curves, curve projections, splicing and curring of curves are supported.

At the very least, import and export of curved (3D) geometry should be supported. That alone would make me buy this app even without a demo.

Cronholio
10-02-2004, 08:24 PM
ILM uses whatever primitive type suits the task at hand. They aren't locked into a NURBS pipeline, infact they've probably been using subdivision surfaces longer than most of you guys have been doing CG. I've worked in games and film and have used NURBS very often in both fields. In games, for now, the end result it always polygons, but we'd often begin modeling assets in NURBS for a myriad of reasons, and every hardware manufacturer wants to provide hardware acceleration for parametric surfaces. Sony does, MS does, Nvidia does, Ati does...

If you really understood what a NURBS surface was and what it's strengths were over a polygonal surface, you'd understand why you'd want to use them in certain cases, even for characters. It's not as easy to model a character with NURBS, but they have UVs that are implicit and uniform, which makes them particularly useful for characters that aren't standard and require special shader effects or particle effects. If you can't model with NURBS and don't understand them well enough to know when to use them, you aren't a particularly useful modeler.

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