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Sbowling
09-24-2004, 01:52 PM
I'm stunned! I can't say enough about this program. Awesom! When I bought it I thought it was going to be pretty good. I was impressed by the videos I had seen and I thought it would be great to be able configure the interface however I wanted. Even going in with fairly high expectations on this program I was completely blown away. I've been using the default Modo config and haven't really found any reason to change it. It's almost as if the prgram was designed to work the way I want to work. While there isn't a hotkey for everyting in the program, the ones that are there seem to work well and there is a lot of room for me to set up my own keys using any combination of CTRL, SHIFT and ALT with a key. For lightWave users this is a must have tool. Lightwave has always claimed to have a great modeler and it's pretty good, but this program is so much better in every way. Working with edges is something fairly new to me and it's blown me away. It's like I've been doing things the hard way for so many years. I save a model that I had over details by simply selecting edge loops and removing them using edge remove and vertice remove. Even setting up hotkeys for these commands was simple. All I had to do was find the command I wanted to set the key for, double click it and press the keys I wanted (CTRL + R and CTRL + ShifT +R) to use for that command. Coming from lightwave this just seems stupid simple, a complete no brainer. I honestly can't say enough good things about Modo. It's just amazing. I think I've fallen in love with 3d all over again! Awesome job Luxology. You guys rock! :thumbsup:

swampthing
09-24-2004, 03:09 PM
I guess i feel otherwise. It feels almost exactly like a stripped down version of lightwave's modeller. Some things feel way more advanced but i'm missing alot of tools that i'm used to having and use regularly. It's possible i just haven't found them yet, but I'm feeling pretty crippled so far.

I'd also probably recommend silo over this as it stands hands down as silo is 1/5th the price and more fully featured.

evileye
09-24-2004, 04:16 PM
I have to agree. i have tested it and find its an really cool modeler with a lot of the stuff I always wished lw modeler had...Yet, Its not a replacement for lw modeler and find it hard to believe (in its current state) I could use it without having to load objects back up in modeler to use the miriad of scripts. Modo is a great step foreword but it doesnt replace 15 years of seniority and support. Not yet anyway.

leuey
09-24-2004, 04:20 PM
That's a good way to put it. I have a feeling the guys who wrote all the LW scripts we all love will have them ported over to modo with 6 months - not to mention all the additional scripts/plugins that will be coming out. I'm looking forward to some of my standby's making it over to Modo.

-Greg


I have to agree. i have tested it and find its an really cool modeler with a lot of the stuff I always wished lw modeler had...Yet, Its not a replacement for lw modeler and find it hard to believe (in its current state) I could use it without having to load objects back up in modeler to use the miriad of scripts. Modo is a great step foreword but it doesnt replace 15 years of seniority and support. Not yet anyway.

kursad_pileksuz
09-24-2004, 07:14 PM
you guys need toi use it more to decide. i can model in modo easily 2 times faster than i modeled in lightwave. do not get me wrong, but i do not think that you yet grapsed the cores of it due to short amount of time it has been

swampthing
09-24-2004, 08:33 PM
you guys need toi use it more to decide. i can model in modo easily 2 times faster than i modeled in lightwave. do not get me wrong, but i do not think that you yet grapsed the cores of it due to short amount of time it has been

Well the more i use it the more my initial impressions are even further solidified and I find myself finding even more things i can't do the way i'm used to or even the easiest way possible. Don't get me wrong the interface is great, etc. but it's just missing too many very useful tools that i'm used to having and some of it's tools work in a way that's frustrating.

UserDelta
09-24-2004, 08:37 PM
ive used LW modeler for like 5 years now. i have modo set up pretty much the same way i work in modeler. dont miss modeller at all. most of the tools are there in some form.

kursad_pileksuz
09-24-2004, 08:41 PM
you said that it feels like stripped down version of llightwave, i may agree on this or not, depends on your perspective. first of all there are not any plugins and scripts for modo yet, so lightwave has been out there for so many years, and if you were to use alot of those, you may feel that way, i personally feel more like freed :) and modelling is all about couple of solid tools and the creative options tool gives you, in that sense modo has all and more.
if you list what you miss most, maybe we can talk about more spesific issues rather than vague comments.

markbrown
09-24-2004, 09:29 PM
Well the more i use it the more my initial impressions are even further solidified and I find myself finding even more things i can't do the way i'm used to or even the easiest way possible. Don't get me wrong the interface is great, etc. but it's just missing too many very useful tools that i'm used to having and some of it's tools work in a way that's frustrating.

Could you be more specific please? It would be very helpful if you could list your 10 (or whatever) most useful plugins/scripts that you use in Modeler (or any or program for that matter) that aren't in modo.

Which of the modo tools do you find frustrating to use (and why)?

Thanks.

PeXi^3
09-24-2004, 09:48 PM
Modo is a great step foreword but it doesnt replace 15 years of seniority and support. Not yet anyway.
Support? Don't remember seeing that for a long time, atleast the kind of support that I would call a support. I've used LW for 5 years now (mainly Modeler).
IMO modo is amazing, atleast a VERY good start. I haven't found anything that stops me for completely moving to modo, atleast not yet.
Lots of things that bothered me in Modeler are the right way in modo. Almost every aspect is brought to a new level.

c-g
09-24-2004, 11:13 PM
The support so far has been fantastic. Open the about box in Modo and look at the people making posts. I have seen posts from at least five of the people listed in the first series of names. That is a lot better than having the marketing department answer questions.

Mark has a post a few lines up asking about features you miss. How is that not support?

Sbowling
09-24-2004, 11:25 PM
I would be very interested in what things people feel are missing compared to lightwave modeler. Modo is much more refined than Modeler, you don't need as many buttons as you do in modeler to do the same things. I wouldn't recommend trying to get modo to work exactly like modeler as I read someone was trying to do. Learn to use modo the way it is set up. Go through the tutorials (do them, don't just read them) using the default modo setup and try to get a feel for how modo was designed to work. If you find you absolutely don't like something in modo it's easy to change it, but give it a shot as it is first. Be sure to go through the user guide too. There's alot of very usefull information. Coming from lightWave you might not be used to this kind of documentation, but this is very helpful. BTW, check out the options for the background layers. You can actually have solid shading, which comes in very usefull when doing things like getting your character's eyelids to match up to the eye ball. Also, be sure to read up on action centers and the work plane. These are just awesome! Precision movement is so much better in Modo than in lightwave. another thing that's really impressive is Modos ability to remove geometry without destroying your mesh.

If I had one thing I would have to complain about in Modo it would be the use of 0-1 instead of 0-255 for setting up color values. I would guess this can be changed, but I'm not sure how.

Nando
09-24-2004, 11:26 PM
Initially, when I got Modo on that Friday release, I downloaded it installed and played around with it a bit.

My initial reaction was wow, but then I too seemed to think that I was missing options that were once in another package.
I talked it over with friends the next day who wanted more info on the product before they purchased. I told them it seemed it was missing tools, but it does have a great foundation to become even better.

Well they purchased , and now we talk about it, and low and behold most of the tools we were use too are there, just not in the place we were used too. ;)

Its not missing tools its just that folks are getting "New UI SHOCK"
Keep playing with it and you'll find what you need.

Also, I see a lot of folks comparing/referencing/expecting MODO to/be LW and I myself think of MODO as a whole new entity that has nothing too Do with LW or its current owners. Modo is a step forward in 3D applications and the user must also take a step forward in new workflows.
If you embrace the new workflows, and let go of the old habits you will integrate yourself much better with MODO.

also dont forget to check the cool things thread
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=170963

:thumbsup:

3DDave
09-24-2004, 11:39 PM
So if all of the same Lightwave tools are there in some form or another, what are the big advantages over modeler?

CoolDuck
09-24-2004, 11:51 PM
I have to share the 'WOW'!

Amazing how easy everything is and how user friendly the program is. Good that you can set it up like Maya, I felt at home immediatly.

I think modo will be very popular in the future! I can't wait Nexus or something!?

nuclearfessel
09-24-2004, 11:52 PM
So if all of the same Lightwave tools are there in some form or another, what are the big advantages over modeler?
none of the clunkiness of Modeler's workflow

UserDelta
09-24-2004, 11:58 PM
So if all of the same Lightwave tools are there in some form or another, what are the big advantages over modeler?
export to maya with blendshapes, edge weighting, n-gon subdivision, consolidated toolset... just a few things off the top of my head.

Sbowling
09-25-2004, 12:15 AM
So if all of the same Lightwave tools are there in some form or another, what are the big advantages over modeler?
There's a lot more than just the same tools. If you go back and reread some of my earlier posts in this thread, you will see that there are some huge workflow improvements, interface improvements new tools, improved tools, not to mention the whole edges thing.

swampthing
09-25-2004, 12:38 AM
I dunno, i need to play with it more i guess, just my initial reactions have been like i'm missing some fucntionality. The LAST thing i want is modeller all over again so i'm not trying to get that as i've been trying to find something else i feel comfortable with like modeller only with modern features. There's something about how the slice tool works, it feels awkward so far, probably just because it's new. The loop slice i need to play with more before I decide on that as i use bandsaw ALOT like i'd guess most other lightwavers. I'm going to dig deeper because i REALLY want to like this program as it feels like lightwave that i'm used to. Though I will say after using the cinema4d 9 demo that any knife tool out there feels pale in comparison, I wish some other apps would implement that. I'd also like to see a point slide of sorts as I don't beleive i've found a way to do that yet.

CB_3D
09-25-2004, 12:40 AM
There's a lot more than just the same tools. If you go back and reread some of my earlier posts in this thread, you will see that there are some huge workflow improvements, interface improvements new tools, improved tools, not to mention the whole edges thing.
One question. Try saving an edgeweighted model as a LWO and reloading it. Are the edgeweights still intact? That would be intriguing, considering LW doesn´t support edges.

MyCatField
09-25-2004, 12:45 AM
I actually haven't had any luck transferring edge-weighted characters to anything. I tend to think it's something I'm doing wrong, but it's hard to say. I'm edge-weighting a model in modo, saving as Maya Ascii, and importing into Maya. It comes in as Polygons (first red flag), and when converted to Maya Subdivs, doesn't display the edge weighting at all.

Anyone else having this problem?

-Mike

Sbowling
09-25-2004, 01:20 AM
One question. Try saving an edgeweighted model as a LWO and reloading it. Are the edgeweights still intact? That would be intriguing, considering LW doesn´t support edges.
LWO is the default saving format. Edge weighting is saved as extra information in the file. If you load the file into LightWave and then resave it all the information on weights will be lost.

CB_3D
09-25-2004, 01:39 AM
thx for checking that out.

isobarxx
09-25-2004, 02:38 AM
Could you be more specific please? It would be very helpful if you could list your 10 (or whatever) most useful plugins/scripts that you use in Modeler (or any or program for that matter) that aren't in modo.

Thanks. David Ikeda's Connect script, where you could select two sets of polygons and bridge between them.

pabloD
09-25-2004, 02:39 AM
Give modo a chance. It will take some longer than others to get used to it. It is definitely worth the effort.

I have been using Lightwave for production since version 2.0 (1991? - can't remember for sure).
I used to swear by it. I did everything form rigid body modeling to organics. Lots of organics.

As production demands rose and my models got more complex I started feeling more and more restricted by Modeler's work flow.

I was very intersted in Nichmen Mirai and the things Bay Raitt (lead? modeler on Gollum for LOTR) could do with it. Mirai kind of disappeared and I found out there was a freeware package with similar workflow called Wings 3D. I started playing with it and found the interface quite quirky at first but I soon became accustomed and realized that I could build more complicated meshes with greater ease and speed than I could with Modeler. About the only thing I used Modeler for was creating Endomorphs and texturing.

When Luxology started hiring demo artists for modo I contacted them. Frankly I needed the money. I am friends with everyone on the development team but I must admit that I was worried about getting involved with what could have been another industry underdog (dispite LW's capabilities it is often looked down upon by the big production houses).

It took me awhile to get used to modo, longer than I expected. Now that I am used to it I have become quite attached. It is my primary modeling tool.

One huge difference that people have already noted here is the modo support. The programmer feedback and user script sharing in this forum is extremely encouraging. Also modo's configurablility and extensibility should allow for a great deal of extra functionality before Luxology even releases the first modo update!

Though I will say after using the cinema4d 9 demo that any knife tool out there feels pale in comparison, I wish some other apps would implement that.Would you describe Cinema4D's knife tool for us please? What makes it special? Perhaps it can be matched in modo.

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