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View Full Version : Free Multi-Platform Shaders (Max, AM,LW,TS,C4D)


Grey
08-11-2002, 11:25 PM
http://www.darksim.com/html/download_simbiont2.html

Yet another example of a multi-platform Plugin... DarkTree I believe has been around for a while...

The free shaders and beta for Cinema4D is, however, new...

The aplication looks very interesting. I found the screenshots impressive at least
http://www.darksim.com/html/dt2_screen_shots.html

playmesumch00ns
08-12-2002, 12:02 PM
Darktree is an interesting app, but its usefulness is limited, mainly by how slow it is once you get complicated trees going. You have to render them to a file to get good render times in your 3d app which kinda defeats the object of using a procedural texture in the first place.

Grey
08-12-2002, 03:28 PM
I haven't played with it much yet, the other thing is the $450+pricetag makes it highly unlikely I'll ever get it...

RormanKnockwell
08-13-2002, 01:16 AM
it looks like it's Windows only. You really can't call it multi-platform unless it is available on multiple operating systems (Windows, MacOS, Linux, Irix, etc.)

Perhaps you mean multi-application?

Grey
08-13-2002, 02:08 AM
Multi3D Platform, as in 3D Software Platforms like 3D Studio Max, Maya, SoftimageXSI, Lightwave and Cinema4D.

I'm not talking about OS, and who cares about them anyway?

Windows is the dominant os for 3D software and there's no reason to believe that anything is going to challenge it in the forseeable future.

I can count the number of people doing 3D work under Linux on the fingers of my left hand, and the number of Mac users doing proffessional 3D work is so low as to be irrelevant. (3DSMax doesn't even support MacOS and probably never will).

So far as Irix, does anyone really believe SGI's going to be in business next year?

beaker
08-13-2002, 04:24 AM
Wow, shows how arrogant and misinformed you are. Maybe you should go out and do some more research. I hope you don't plan on ever comming to hollywood with that kind of attitude.

RormanKnockwell
08-13-2002, 04:43 AM
The studio I work for, a large Hollywood studio which shall remain nameless, is ALL Irix, Mac and, increasingly, Linux. We have a few Windows machines: a couple NT boxes for print servers, and one in the mail room.

'Nuff said about that.

Grey
08-13-2002, 04:46 AM
SGI has been bleeding money for a long time. It'll either get aquired by someone bigger or go the way of the dinosaur. Maybe Pixar will buy them... Hollywood doesn't feed them enough money to save them.

The #1 3D Platform is a WindowsNT/2K native
#2 supports the Mac, but not very well (and if you want that wonderful plugin, you'll have to switch to Windows anyway)

Cinema4D has the best Mac support of any of the top selling 3D Platforms, it's true, but I don't think that helps a whole lot.

If you believe I'm misinterpretting anything, please feed us some facts. This isn't arrogance speaking, it's pragmatism.

RormanKnockwell
08-13-2002, 05:50 AM
Well, it makes no sense to call an OS "#1", "#2", etc. This is not a race. Each platform has features and limitations which appeal to different people in different ways. Certainly, Windows is a very pragmatic solution for 3D. There are a lot of apps out there, and some very good 3D cards. Many pro studios are turning away from Windows, though, due to poor security, crappy licensing, and incompatibilities with their existing network infrastructure.

These weaknesses happen to be Linux's strengths, which is why large studios are migrating to Linux in great numbers. Linux now has plenty of 3D apps, and HP Visualize workstations running Linux beat the pants off SGIs in 3D hardware performance. I don't give SGI much of a future, either, at least not on the desktop.

I prefer the Mac, as it is a lovely desktop Unix that has great software support, and runs Lightwave just fine. The point is that you can't count out any platform. Each has a significant user base for very different and very valid reasons.

Now let's end this. I hate OS wars.

Grey
08-13-2002, 06:07 AM
the mistake is assuming that Hollywood dictates what's popular.

The truth is that it's a tiny part of the 3D industry and has a very limited effect upon it.

If Hollywood did dictate it, then Maya and XSI would be the top selling 3D Platforms.

This isn't an OS war, btw. By "Platform" I'm not talking about OS but 3D Software Platforms (IE: 3D Software that are multifuction platforms which designed to host plugins, as opposed to 3D Software which are of limited function).

beaker
08-13-2002, 07:33 AM
>>The truth is that it's a tiny part of the 3D industry and has a very limited effect upon it.

Actually hollywood and film companies have a huge effect on the 3d industry. They are the primary drivers of the software. It has a much bigger effect then any other part of the 3d industry. Every 3d company wants to have their name in starlight with some person from a big name saying that they used their software in so and so movie. So the person making the purchasing decisions will go out and buy their software. Visualfx companies drive most of the development by breaking the software because we pound the crap out of it and abuse it much more than anyone else. Film also purchases hundreds of copies of many different software packages so they are some of the 3d companies biggest customers. There is no other part of the 3d industry that has companies with 500-1500 users all under one single roof. 95% of companies in 3d have maybe 1-20 people at the most. Where else can one company in the industry tell a 3d company that they want the software running on so and so hardware or os or I want so and so feature in the next release and they say "Yessir, Im your Bitch" :). Why do you think Softimage ported soft3d too linux 3 years after xsi shipped(soft3d's supposed replacement). Of course because ILM asked them too.

Also look at most of the lowend software's features over the last few years. Quite a few of them are pulled directly from the highend packages. You can't sell your software for 1k and have a huge r&d budget. The highend packages could afford to innovate alot more because their prices were 10-100x the price of the lowend packages(softimage was around 80k when it first came out). It is exactly how it works in the government. NASA and the Military invent a bunch of technology that would probably have never been discovered for another 10-15 year if they didnt spend many millions in research. Then of course they go and sell it cheap to a company who exploits the technology and 5-10 years later you get superglue or a digital watch for 99 cents at the drug store.

>>If Hollywood did dictate it, then Maya and XSI would be the top selling 3D Platforms.

Well thats a different story, Maya and Softimage sold for upwards of 30-40k not 4-5 years ago. Now that both of them are selling in the price range of 3dsmax and LW, I am sure their numbers will both go up. Their numbers were nothing to scoff at back when they were at the huge high cost. Like 30k users for maya, not sure about soft's numbers, Max is like 100k, but again, it was 1/10th the cost of the others(these are numbers from like 2 years ago, donno how many they both have now).

KayosIII
08-13-2002, 12:35 PM
A platform does not have to be dominant to be important. Linux is in just that position. I will fill several small areas of the market....

It is unfortunate that platform is used to describe both OS and major software applications.... Who cares about that - I do either I can run the blessed shaders or I cannot. If I am running a linux setup I can not. Forgive me for stating the obvious but that little fact IS important.

(No matter which way you look at it My platform is not supported... Not that I feel too left out with Realsofts shader system the way it is).

Grey
08-13-2002, 02:48 PM
Beaker, if anything you said regarding Hollywood's command over the 3D industry was true, then Maya and Lightwave would never have lowered their prices in order to compete on the open market.

Max and XSI remain the only holdouts.

3DStudio Max will probably not lower prices anytime soon because THAT company can withstand a whole lot. Since it's owned by Autodesk, makers of Autocad, they can afford to subsidize Discreet's Max.

3DStudio Max reportedly has a (legitimate) installed base of 1/4 Million people. I guarantee you the vast majority of them don't live anywhere near hollywood.

beaker
08-13-2002, 08:34 PM
>>Beaker, if anything you said regarding Hollywood's command over the 3D industry was true, then Maya and Lightwave would never have lowered their prices in order to compete on the open market.

What does Hollywoods command over the development of 3d have anything to do with a 3d software companies price of software? They lower the price as they see fit to sell so and so amount of copies of the software. Even Houdini has a version for $1299 now, and their software is strictly used in film and research in the past. This is mainly because they figure they they have allready payed for the huge amount of r&d and now they can make alot more money by selling to the masses. They would have never gotten where they were without the huge amount of money for the first 4-5 years from film and television(little game).

>>3DStudio Max reportedly has a (legitimate) installed base of 1/4 Million people. I guarantee you the vast majority of them don't live anywhere near hollywood.

3dsmax is probably much more effected by the game companies(about 1/3 of the game companies in the nation are here in the LA area), but still by film and commercial houses too.. Ever heard of a company named Blur? and two guys named Brandon Davis and Martin Foster? They probably listen to those guy much more than anyone else because they work in film. Well maybe not Martin anymore because he is using other software now, but he still gives them a piece of mind sometimes.

beaker
08-13-2002, 08:37 PM
>>Beaker, if anything you said regarding Hollywood's command over the 3D industry was true, then Maya and Lightwave would never have lowered their prices in order to compete on the open market.

What does Hollywoods command over the development of 3d have anything to do with a 3d software companies price of software? They lower the price as they see fit to sell so and so amount of copies of the software. Even Houdini has a version for $1299 now, and their software is strictly used in film and research in the past. This is mainly because they figure they they have allready payed for the huge amount of r&d and now they can make alot more money by selling to the masses. They would have never gotten where they were without the huge amount of money for the first 4-5 years from film and television(little game).

>>3DStudio Max reportedly has a (legitimate) installed base of 1/4 Million people. I guarantee you the vast majority of them don't live anywhere near hollywood.

3dsmax is probably much more effected by the game companies(about 1/3 of the game companies in the nation are here in the LA area), but still by film and commercial houses too.. Ever heard of a company named Blur? and two guys named Brandon Davis and Martin Foster? They probably listen to those guy much more than anyone else because they work in film. Well maybe not Martin anymore because he is using other software now, but he still gives them a piece of mind sometimes.

Im not saying film companies are all powerfull or anything, just that the software companies listen to them alot more than anyone else.

Grey
08-13-2002, 09:05 PM
Hmmmm... you're completely ignoring the architectural industry, which was the driving force behind commercial photorealist rendering.

thinKer3D
08-13-2002, 11:34 PM
:: Lets not forget the science and medical field ::

Grey
08-14-2002, 12:00 AM
and the automotive and aircraft industry...

Boeng has one hell of a large production studio up here in Seattle that rivals Universal Studios.

beaker
08-14-2002, 12:23 AM
>> Boeng has one hell of a large production studio up here in Seattle that rivals Universal Studios.

I would hope so since Universal Studios doesn't even have a 3d animation division, let alone a 2d one.

Grey
08-14-2002, 12:32 AM
So far as 3D professionals, I'd wager there are more at Boeng alone than in all of Los Angeles.

KayosIII
08-14-2002, 03:28 AM
Yup but the reason for Max's strong user base has been undermined..... Companies use max because they know they can get max artists because pirate copies of max have been available on Win95/98 allowing people to learn the platform. Maya, Houdini and Softimages learning editions guarentee a flow of artists experienced in these platforms which will have some companies reevaluating the platforms they use....

thedaemon
08-14-2002, 06:25 AM
I thought this post was supposed to be about shaders...:shame: wtf??:thumbsdow

Marcel
08-14-2002, 09:53 AM
Hmmmm... you're completely ignoring the architectural industry, which was the driving force behind commercial photorealist rendering.

That's a very funny remark! :)

Take the time to browse through some galleries of companies making architectural visualisations and you'll see why your statement doesn't make a lot of sense.
The average architectural visualisation doesn't even surpass the rendering quality of a chrome teapot.

Yes, there are some exceptions, but those are very prestigious projects with a very large budget.

So far as 3D professionals, I'd wager there are more at Boeng alone than in all of Los Angeles.

That depends on how you interpret the word 3d professional. The job of the people working at Boeing is probably designing airplanes, not making 3d animation. Not really a good comparison.

Chrissyboy
08-16-2002, 12:50 PM
back to the shaders...

Darksim have mentioned that they will be producing Mac-compatible simbionts in the future, for LW and C4D, so they will in fact be multi-platform.

Cheers - CC

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