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Strategoi
09-19-2004, 03:08 AM
Ok I'll just start off by saying that I am a newbie in the 3d art world exspecially in texturing, but I figured since my posts at Elysiun.com didn't really get me anywhere I'd come here and get beat down with a very big stick. Been using Blender3d for about a year or so maybe less.

my picture is off an unknown Alien from some distant unknown planet. No refrences used.

Software:Blender3d
Time:one hell of alot
Location: Yukon, Canada

Please crit on my modeling and since I'm kinda in a creative block right now if you suddenly come up with an idea for what type of body for him, I would really like to know...

Front View: Clay
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/Strategoi/AlienHeadClay1.jpg

Side View: Clay
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/Strategoi/AlienHeadClay2.jpg

Perspective View: Clay
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/Strategoi/AlienHeadClay3.jpg

And heres some links to my pathetic attempts at procedurcal(sp?) texturing and a wireframe.

Wireframe:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/Strategoi/AlienHeadWireFrame1.jpg
Texture FrontView:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/Strategoi/AlienHeadTexture2.jpg
Texture SideView:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/Strategoi/AlienHeadTexture1.jpg

Help me learn!!
later

davhub
09-19-2004, 09:08 PM
Hi Strategoi.. first of all: i do not know how blender works, so excuse me if
I say something could be strange for your workflow..
second, I give you my advice knowing they could be harsh, let me know I do not have
the intention to hurt.

It's a very complex face, too complex in my opinion.
I'm not founded in Char anim, but I could say
your char needs to be simplified.

You're not founded in texturing and UV maps and, believe, me, your model will
open for you the gates of hell if you try to UV map it and texture... :)
(unless you use a solid 3D paint program or a normalizer of UVmaps)

First it seems to be made of different "materials" expecially in the back paert of the skull
(and the portion that leads to the front horn).
Try to lessen the folds of flesh around his eyes,
and around his mouth.. it could be interesting try to give it a little bit of more depth in the
side view.. it seems flat IMO..

This for the model but we have too much generic questions to answer to be precise.

concerning the body... tiny quite doggy.. that face is of a small char.
not very powerful or "hulky":D

what do you think?

thanks for sharing!
Davhub

Strategoi
09-20-2004, 04:40 AM
Thanks for replying,
First off yah I know its going to be a bugger to texture... I've tried to get the uv coordinates but failed miserably everytime, I suppose that is because of all the folds and such like you noticed.
It is one material, that back part is a mess up in my mesh and I was actually working on fixing it.
I'll try to lessen the folds around the eyes and mouth to see how it looks.
What do you mean by add more depth... err I suppose I mean how should I go about adding more depth?
Thanks for the idea on the body, I kinda had that in mind too, but its nice to hear it froms someone else.

Ok keep the crits coming!

davhub
09-20-2004, 07:37 AM
Hi strategoi, glad to hear my crits do not hurt you ;)

Yes, the failure of UVmaps creation process probably is derived from
the complexity of your work.

if in blender there's a normal map displacement plugin
I suggest you to reduce the polys, and let the normal displacement do it for you.

yes, I was unsure about my explanation about the side view...
once I see the side view, it's like I see a flat panel. like an engraved stone sheet
(remember the ancient greek temples?) in italian it's called "altorilievo"
that means a strong engraved stone sheet, at mid way between a statue and a
flat panel. your 3D model is suppose to be a statue, that's why I used the word "depth"
it's just a question of proportion, the side view, in the face portion expecially seems too flat.
but, this, of course, it's a questione of your personal taste ;)

concerning the body.. :thumbsup: keep on modelling!

davhub

Strategoi
09-21-2004, 03:33 AM
Hello
About the depth thing I understood you completly the first time its just that I was wondering how I could make it seem like it had more depth? I am not a very good 2d artist and I have only been working with 3d for a year or so maybe less, added that I'm 14 years old and havn't had any art courses in my life some of these things seem to confuse me.
Do you have any ideas on how I could make it have more depth? or anyone else thats looking at this thread.
My eyes have been hurting like heck latley so its hard to stare at the screen for very long so updates are actually really hard, I need a break from staring at this bloody screen.

Bye
and remember just keep the crits coming. and I know they are there because I'm so far away from perfect...

davhub
09-21-2004, 07:46 AM
Hi strategoi, you catch some points.

First of all: you're very young but with strong will, a good thing I could say! ;)

I'm a "little" older than you and I feel to suggest you the following
speaking with my own experienxe:

3D art and CG is an extension of the traditional art techniques and tools.
You were born in the age of computing and it's normal you start to use these tools
as your native tools. BUT, remember, They still concerned with the tradition.

This only to say: work before with your hands, pencils, rubber and paper sheets.

You are frustrated trying to change things in 3D.. Believe me: it's normal and
not every man can stand the stress. Personally I prefer to spend a little time
planning and drawing by hands, it's simple to demonstrate hands are miles faster than
computer in making changes when you're in sketch phase!
when you study all the views by hand (changing curves at thought speed)
your consciousness of the model is increased and the following 3D modelling goes fluently.

It's hard to stand, I guess, but stop messing around with computer just a bit.
relax, go out and take pencils and paper (even a photocopy paper could be good
isn't necessary to spend money in art paper for watercolours)

first reproduce your alien head helped by computer screen, you have only to copy at it
(this is the first step of training your hands: copy!) even printing it
in wireframe, but do not be tyempted to do this in seconds!
You have to spend time in order to develop!)

than you can overlap another sheet of paper and standing onto the window you can
polish and modify it a bit, repeat this process till you are pleasant with the shapes.

after this you can decide waht to do, you tryed in an afternoon tens variations
(with computer you need days to achieve the same)
you are confortable with your imagination and skills.

then, scan the final results and start to model from them.
In 3D ou can adjust the things you cannot see working in 2D.. but these are
thin variations.

if you have any questions: ask, OK? :thumbsup:

Keep on going! First you change your way of work fuirst you can improve!!

Davhub

Strategoi
09-22-2004, 04:22 AM
Thanks for that idea Davhub, I do belive I'll listen to that info and learn 'The ways of the pencil' But i'm not going to stop using the computer during that time so I'll still be somewhat working on this alien just at an extremley slow pace.
Thanks again

Later

davhub
09-22-2004, 07:24 AM
But i'm not going to stop using the computer during that time so I'll still be somewhat working on this alien just at an extremley slow pace.
Glad to hear that, infact It's the integration between tools the concept behind!
The "way of pencils" could give you somenthing missing somewhere else
such as the "computer ways" :)

learn techniques is adding knowledge and no subtraction is involved!

keep on!
Davhub

Strategoi
09-26-2004, 03:08 AM
Ok I've been working with traditonel art for the past couple days and I came up with a sketch of a scene I wanted to do with this guy but since I dont have scanner or digital camera i'm going to have to explain it threw words because I would like compliments on my ideas too!

Ok here it is:
the alien (the one I made) is staring at an unknown object(not visible in image)leaning on a ancient staff, dressed in a robe covering the top of his head, he looks distressed and in pain but yet he still looks strong and ready to start again and behind him(below him. He is on a path slightly higher then the main battlefield) lies the carnage of a brutal battle that just ended, dead bodies everywhere wounded men trying to walk away; lots of fire and a bit of explosions, deep craters in the ground from artillery fire, the sky is dark and clouded but the sun is starting to rise in the very background. Wrecked buildings are in the very back with smoke coming out of what looks like a city that got crushed to the ground. Their is no mountains or forestry in the background.

I hope that is enough to get roughly the same picture in other peoples head, I really wish to finish this scene because I can tell it will never leave my head (I just can't stop thinking about it)
Any questions about it just ask and I'll take any crits I can get on the picture and on my written scene.

Later

davhub
09-26-2004, 07:33 AM
Hi strrategoi.. if you do not have a scanner or a digital camera (for this kind of work it's better the first) it could be a mess to achieve good results...

anyway... your idea seems nice, your description is full of details..
do you know the amount of work for this one? HUGE, believe..

keep in mind a big project like yours need, if you're a sterter, time to end and to develop.
let your mind get acquainted with the ideas, and let your skills grow with the realization.

no hurry, strategoi, I know it's difficult (expecially because you would like to finish this
and I know very well your urgency), but owrk on the overall scene, and together work onto
the models.. sketch some more, ask your friends if they could help you in scan the images, but only whem you are satisfied with them. remember: model at low poly you are always in time to increase details ;)

hpe this helps
Davhub

Strategoi
09-26-2004, 07:57 AM
Yes I know its going to be quite a challenge and i dont plan to work on it as one big piece but more as lots of tiny ones and it will most likely take me till like x-mas maybe even later because of school and such. I just kinda needed to write down my thoughts/sketches to see what people thought... errr pretty much you davhub only lol no one likes to comment on shitty work :(. And no its not really urgent to finsih it... I have all the time in the world right now; 'young and growing'
Also I dont think any of my friends would have scanners lol they are all dumb with computers and barly know how to turn them on....
Thanks for replies man

Later

the_grimreaper
09-27-2004, 07:17 PM
i do like this dude, it showd progress over at elysiun , got any more screens for us?:shrug:

Sp3ctre
09-29-2004, 07:36 AM
yeah man, I think very few people can start 3D modeling from something out of their head and get to an awesome finished piece. you've got to draw on paper first. if, for whatever reason, you can't draw (not a bad thing) then get someone to draw for you. either way, get a front and side view of that bad boy and make sure you understand where every little fold will go. from those drawings, you will have worked out what should be all of your design problems, including creative block.

my opinion is that you've gone too far without really thinking about what you were doing, so therefore I would tell you to keep the idea, but develop before going to the computer.

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