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theCloudmover
09-17-2004, 06:32 PM
I heard about this on a Painter e-list.

This is in the newest snailmail catalog from Macconnection.com-
http://img71.exs.cx/img71/3010/painter.jpg

The item is not on their site or on Corel's site - maybe they jumped the gun? :shrug:

In any event, the collapsing layer mode was was something I was specifically looking for in the upgrade.
There goes $200.00.

Self-Designer
09-17-2004, 08:57 PM
It looks like a joke:

1. because of the box's designing, but that's can be my own opinion :) (not so talking about the brave step of puting this hand, but the words around it like "this so easy"...)
2. because of the "new feature: Rotate/Flip Canavas" - yeh, I know it lacks in Painter, but that's really lame to put it in the advertisement.

theCloudmover
09-18-2004, 12:06 AM
It looks like a joke:

1. because of the box's designing, but that's can be my own opinion :) (not so talking about the brave step of puting this hand, but the words around it like "this so easy"...)
2. because of the "new feature: Rotate/Flip Canavas" - yeh, I know it lacks in Painter, but that's really lame to put it in the advertisement.

It's not the most eyecatching of box designs that's true. It doesn't even hint at the graphic power of this program.
Oh well...

Let me assure you that all I did was scan the page from the Macconnection catalog. Here is the whole page from V.249 of Macconnections snailmail catalog-
http://img77.exs.cx/img77/2743/painter5.th.jpg (http://img77.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img77&image=painter5.jpg)

Self-Designer
09-18-2004, 01:13 AM
Oh! now i get what u meant by saying snail-mail (like a regular, unelectronic mail)... right?
So, if it is from a magazine, that's just strange :)

And about the design, I said it's a brave step - I like it somehow... It's unique. But those words they put there.... even though they go with the simplisity of the design, i think it's just too much (the list of the tools, the "wow this so easy").

I think it's a very interesting choice to choose as a designer.

smoothoperator
09-18-2004, 02:16 AM
That cannot be the box design.

danielh68
09-18-2004, 04:06 AM
Yes, it's the new design. Corel commissioned the controversial neo-primitivist Antonin Molyneux (grandson to Rene Molyneux) to create this piece. His work is highly provocative and innovative. In some circles he's considered the Picasso of the 21st century. I'm sure Corel paid him handsomely for his work.

DJ-Prismatica
09-18-2004, 08:47 AM
I don't know. As an artist and designer I like the box design. They probably figured it would have shipped by now and just jumped the gun on the whole ad thing since these catalogs take a couple days to ship. Or they were given the information before hand and Corel didn't know they were producing a new catalog so soon.

awrieger
09-19-2004, 09:03 PM
It certainly is an odd choice for the packaging from a marketing perspective. As 'provocative and innovative' it is, it gives the wrong impression (excuse the pun) of what Painter is actually capable of. It actually gives no impression whatsoever of what Painter is truly capable of in the right hands.

Molyneux' puerile line scribbles can be done in any simple paint or draw program, even freeware ones, and even without a tablet, so why buy Painter? To anyone who isn't familiar with Painter, the design doesn't give them a reason to look first at Painter over any other app. First impressions (again, excuse please) count.

But to those who are already aware of Painter and it's capabilities, I guess the box design is irrelevant as we are already all fully aware of what it can do (we'll still buy iy, no?), so maybe they're just having a bit of creative licence with it. Maybe just to show they are at the 'cutting edge' of art or something.

In my modest opinion, something like a work like this (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=171043) by Arseny Gutov on this very forum, for example, would have been a much better choice to show the true power and capabilities of this software which can't be matched by anything else on the market..

Perhaps it just comes down to a personal choice of which Grand Master's style you prefer. I'm not a Picasso or 'primitive' fan myself.

aw

danielh68
09-20-2004, 01:07 AM
Hi awrieger,

The Molyneux blurb I posted earlier was just to yank the chains of a few previous posters. I have no idea who the artist really is. Sorry if I went overboard with the sarcasm.

awrieger
09-20-2004, 05:56 AM
That's okay, Daniel. Caught me out fair and square! Not being a fan of that style of artwork myself, and hence knowing very little about it, you can say just about anything about it or the artist and I would believe you! :)

I actually would hope it was indeed someone famous that they commissioned to do it like you said, otherwise they'd be hard pressed in my mind justifying using such an illustration to describe what's actually inside the box.

Remember the paint tin? Now that was cool packaging.

aw

klingspor
09-20-2004, 09:36 AM
Famous artist or not, I just hope I don't have to see that "thing" every time I start up Painter...

Self-Designer
09-20-2004, 10:08 AM
What about seeing that thing as your user-guide like the famous and totally unwanted ms's clips? :eek:

billhdz
09-20-2004, 11:43 PM
I just read about Corel Painter IX at the corel website,
and what is really new?
It just seems like little enhancements and the upgrade price went up.
I don't think I am going to be upgrading anytime soon. I don't see he value. :sad:

Am I the only one that feels this way? Am I missing something here?

eevilmouse
09-21-2004, 01:32 AM
Haveing just bought Painter 8 and just finished my first project with it, I love it, but not sure I will upgrade. Looking at the "new" features (and not really knowing the old ones) I dont see the point of another $200... but that is me.

billhdz
09-21-2004, 02:41 AM
Hi Eevilmouse,

I have been playing with the Painter 9 demo today.
I have a fast computer, so Painter 8 is fast on my system.

I have been using Painter 8 for a long time already, and I just can't justify the HIGHER upgrade price or just the upgrade period. Everything that I can do on Painter 9, I can do with Painter 8.

I am a big painter fan, since versoin 2.5, and this is the first time that I can't justify an upgrade.

Rick Champagne
09-21-2004, 10:17 PM
Hi Folks,

Just to clarify for those asking, I included a newer version of what the actual box looks like.
The original design was done by an agency in Montréal. When we first visited this agency and showed them Corel Painter IX for the first time, they quickly learned what we all know - what sets Painter apart from everything else is that it is very organic and fluid – much like its traditional counterpart – and that fluidity flows directly from your hand. You may have also noticed the "Made By Hand" tagline. I'm sure we all agree that nothing else allows you to apply your natural talents and techniques quite like Painter. Also, because of the digital advantage, Painter also extends the capabilities of traditional mediums (and in turn your hand), which is why you see a hand with nine fingers – nine obviously also coincides with the version number.
The back of the box features art by nine Painter Masters (Ryan Church, Don Seegmiller, Andrew Jones, Chet Philips, Jeremy Sutton, Cher Pendarvis, Joyce Ryan, Chris Welch and John Dismukes). Inside the box is the Painter IX Handbook which features a tutorial from each of these people to show you how they created the images.

http://www.openfrontier.com/philippe/boxshots.jpg

Regarding the imagery, whether you like it, hate it, or are still luke warm to it, I think it's great to see that the ages old debates over "What is art?" continue on today. :)

Kindest Regards,

Rick Champagne
Program Manager, Corel Painter
Corel Corporation
rick . champagne @ corel . com

Munk
09-21-2004, 11:55 PM
Rick,

I have Three questions for you. If Macconnection sells Painter 9 at $199.95 and it ships with the sketchbook, why does the Corel store sell the same thing at $229 and give the sketchbook ($29 value) FREE when you pre-order? How much is the User's Manual going to cost? And finally, when is the release date?

It's ok, Corel already has my money for IX...and I know you don't handle the marketing end of the program.

Just curious
Munk

awrieger
09-22-2004, 07:59 AM
...they'd be hard pressed in my mind justifying using such an illustration to describe what's actually inside the box.

aw

Well, I guess I have to take back what I said then, because you certainly have indeed justified it, Rick! ;)

aw

rebo
09-22-2004, 05:13 PM
Rick just to let you know ive tried the demo is 9 is far better than 8, its really fast where 8 would chug on my computer.

Ghosting still has some small problems but i think thats my graphics card. Regardless i think this is the best painter version yet!.

vladiso
09-22-2004, 05:47 PM
Corel Painter 9

INFOS

Increasing the overall speed, performance and stability of
Corel Painter IX was Corel's top priority. Working closely
with Apple, Intel and AMD, Corel engineers created improvements
wherever possible. The result: Corel Painter has never been
a more efficient and powerful application. This is the fastest
version of Corel Painter yet. Some brushes perform up to 10
times faster than in previous versions, and all brushes work,
on average, twice as fast. In addition, you can now change
the default scratch disk location in the Preference settings.

Getting down to the job at hand has never been easier,
thanks to the Corel Painter IX Welcome screen, which launches
at startup. Divided into four sections, the Welcome screen
gives quick access to recently used files, tutorials, brush
and color-management settings, and artwork from renowned Corel
Painter masters.

Brush Control palettes provide easy access to all brush
settings and controls. Making on-the-fly changes to brush
settings and variables is as simple as dragging a sliderłwithout
any disruption to workflow. For example, the new Boost slider,
found in the General palette of the Brush Controls, instantly
enhances brush speed. Just drag the slider and see brush
performance accelerate.

The Artists' Oils Painting System is a milestone in the
evolution of digital art. This new painting system enables
you to apply paint blends created in the Mixer palette
directly onto images in the document window. Each brush dab
loads the brush variant with a finite amount of oil. As the
oil runs out, the brush stroke becomes fainter. Brush strokes
interact with any paint already on the canvas just as they
would with natural media.

When you need to create a perfect curve or shape, Snap-to-Path
Painting is a great time-saver. Snap-to-Path Painting makes
it possible to constrain a brush stroke along a path or a shape
by clicking a button or using a keyboard shortcut. With a
simple click, you can now create a precise brush stroke that
reflects the attributes typically found in a Corel Painter
stroke, such as pressure, tilt and bearing.

Digital Watercolor has been significantly enhanced in Corel
Painter IX. Paint stays wet between sessions, allowing you
to start one session where the last one ended. The wet
fringe of digital watercolor brush strokes can now be
changed dynamically, enabling experimentation after the
brush stroke has been applied.

Quick Clone is ideal if you're a photographer because it
enables you to transform your photos into paintings. This
new feature speeds up the image-cloning workflow and reduces
five steps to one. Quick Clone settings can be defined on
the General page of the Preferences dialog box.

Moving between Adobe Photoshop and Corel Painter is
simple. Files saved to the Adobe Photoshop (PSD) file
format open in Corel Painter, with layer masks, alpha
channels and layer sets (layer groups) maintained.

Layer behavior in Corel Painter is now very similar to
layer behavior in Adobe Photoshop. New layers are added
above the selected layer, layers with different merge
modes are collapsible, and it is now possible to hide
or display multiple layers by simply clicking and dragging.
In addition, Corel Painter IX supports Adobe Photoshop
plug-ins for Mac« OS X.

Corel Painter IX includes access to a selection of
training videos created by lynda.comłone of the world's
most renowned graphics training companiesłto guide you
through the Corel Painter workspace, tools, features
and techniques.

end :love:

NileshXYZ
09-22-2004, 08:04 PM
One Screen shoot in game developer Magizen (www.gdmag.com)
system Requirements are....
Mac, MAC os X (10.2.8 higher); Power mac G3 500mhz +, 256mb ram
24bit color, 1024x768 res
395mb disk space

Windows, 2000 or XP (with latest SP)
Pentinum 2 500mhz +
256mb ram, 24bit color 1024x768 res.
380mb disk sapce

along with that is 1/2 page info. by Jill Duffy. Nothing worth saying here. but just to let you know the system req if anyone was intrested.

edit: just notice they are on this page: http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Corel2/Products/Content&pid=1047023646661&cid=1047023647703

(oct 2004 issue mag)

noelt
09-22-2004, 08:59 PM
I have Painter 8 and i think the IX snap to feature alone will be worth the money, it's now possible to draw straight lines ,prefect circles and (hopefully) ellipses.. this is a big deal to me, i'm not a very technical artist and it seems like this new feature will give technical drawings a more professional look without having to use rulers and scanning and stuff. It's a lot of money this $200 but i'll pay, i just loooooove this software.

vladiso
09-23-2004, 07:54 AM
Trial vesion grab from>

h**p://www.corel.com/akdlm/6763/downloads/trials/PainterIX/CorelPainterIXTBYB.exe


:thumbsup:

NileshXYZ
09-24-2004, 01:16 AM
hmmm.. too bad its been cracked already with in days!. its tuff to see a new software cracked so soon. wonder if corel will step up the software secuitry a bit more?

f97ao
09-24-2004, 04:08 AM
Painter 9 works great!

Just wanted to say that Painter9 was much better than I had anticipated, far better release than 7 and 8. 6 was great but introduced some troubles.

2 of my main wishes:
- Speed (jupp, really is much faster, I can paint with a 250 size distorto brush, i hated the slowiness before in 6,7,8
- Better oil tools. That the paint dries up ect is very naturaly and very useful. These will be my brush for 80% of the work.

Also trackable path is really cool even though it's actually a simple feature.

Also it's nice that there are general improvements over the place, like customizable shortcuts. I still don't like the airbrush, since it doens't spray when it's still (the smooth one). Works better in photoshop, which is embarrasing. Also, I don't like the undo system that much, it has to few undoes and to few settings. Also seems like the snappinies is still in the menus, not like in photoshop where everything can get real slow when you open up some settings.

So, very good work on this one Corel.
/Andreas

Jinbrown
09-24-2004, 05:38 AM
32 Undo's isn't enough? ;)

f97ao
09-24-2004, 08:07 AM
32 Undo's isn't enough? ;)
not always no. And I don't see any reason for the limited either. I think it should be possible to have it unlimited since it should only take harddrive space/memory and those i can adjust myself

/Andreas

CIM
09-24-2004, 01:33 PM
not always no. And I don't see any reason for the limited either. I think it should be possible to have it unlimited since it should only take harddrive space/memory and those i can adjust myself

/Andreas

If you need more than 32 undos; you clearly have a flawed workflow. There's no reason a competent artist should need that many or more.

Self-Designer
09-24-2004, 02:11 PM
I'm half agree about this point. The problem with a painting program like Painter is that drawing one line can take several steps, if you don't do it in one stroke - few lines may easily take more then 32 undos. In the other hand, if you're not sure with what you do, you can always (or almost always) make it in a new layer or save another file.

dg
09-24-2004, 02:32 PM
I like the design, at least is art related insted of those plain boring hi-tec usual stuff, but in my opinion nothing so far beats the old Metacreations gallon-sized bucket, even tho the design wasn't that cool, the packaging it self was awesome.

Procreate Painter 7 also had a simple/clean and nice package.

Anyone had the chance to try Painter IX yet?


Cheers,

rebo
09-24-2004, 02:54 PM
you can download a full 30 day trial from their site!

and yes its great!

NileshXYZ
09-24-2004, 07:02 PM
Hmm.. one bad thing, If you use Dual Monitors and if you wanted to put tools on one monitor and paint in 2nd monitor. You have to max the software window on both monitors, Not like Photoshop were you can have Tool on one monitor and other windows in background.

CIM
09-25-2004, 05:58 AM
I'm half agree about this point. The problem with a painting program like Painter is that drawing one line can take several steps, if you don't do it in one stroke - few lines may easily take more then 32 undos. In the other hand, if you're not sure with what you do, you can always (or almost always) make it in a new layer or save another file.

If you don't "hit" your line at first, then you'd only need one or two undos at the most (unless you're a chicken scratcher [bad]).

Self-Designer
09-25-2004, 09:59 AM
If you don't "hit" your line at first, then you'd only need one or two undos at the most (unless you're a chicken scratcher [bad]). I'm not sure what's a chicken scratcher, but if it's a person who needs tons of small lines to draw one big line, so, though i'm not one of those, it can be a style. What's so bad with that? Is it because it uses a lot of undos, and maybe it's not healthy to your tablet?
oh well, it doesn't really matter to me :)

f97ao
09-25-2004, 10:08 AM
If you don't "hit" your line at first, then you'd only need one or two undos at the most (unless you're a chicken scratcher [bad]).
Chicken scratcher? Well, yes i scratch much and I don't consider that to be bad, especially if you draw grass with a pencil. Why would that be bad? Also for creating leaves etc there are many dots so in only a few seconds I can fill up 32 undoes, which means basically there is no undo if you paint like this. And I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be possible to have more undoes, it doesn't have to have them all in memory it could save them to the scratch disk after a certain limit is reached. Another thing that would be nice is if you can snapshot or hold a certain stage of your picture, so you can revert to it if you are not happy with your last changes.

Also I found a pretty serious problem in with the artistic oils (if it's not possible to do some other way). The brush tip always rotates with the artistic brushes while most of the other brushes in painter rotates with the direction of your wacom stylus. Is there some way you can change this so the tip only rotates with the stylus?
Try painting up and down fast and moving slightly to the side, just like you would do if you fill in the sky, the tip have problem rotating, and the result is very poor for the edges.

Also it does not seem to be possible to adjust the smoothing of the curves, often if you paint with sharp turning curves, the brush stroke get's cut of since it tries to rotate the tip. this makes the result very unrealistic.

Another thing, if I understand it correctly it's not possible to connect say the airbrush wheel to say the Amount in the Artists's oil, or any of the other settings for that matter. Normally all things like this you can connect to the different parts of your stylus, so why are these lacking? It would be great to connect the Amount to my stylus, since I often switch between a dry and a wet brush. Also it would be good if the amount setting would show up in the property bar (perhaps there is some way to change the property bar? I haven't found any settings for it yet).

Basically the artists colors seem great, but if the above things are not possible, then I personally believe they need a bit more work to be usable for my painting style.
Any thoughts?

/Andreas

f97ao
09-25-2004, 10:09 AM
I'm half agree about this point. The problem with a painting program like Painter is that drawing one line can take several steps, if you don't do it in one stroke - few lines may easily take more then 32 undos. In the other hand, if you're not sure with what you do, you can always (or almost always) make it in a new layer or save another file.
What they could do instead is like Deep Paint. Instead of saving the strokes, they save "time steps", so if you undo you are undoing the last seconds of painting. It has some downsides, but can be great sometimes.
/Andreas

Self-Designer
09-25-2004, 10:31 AM
Sounds like a good idea. I thought about it. Just have to check you don't change your tool or brush as well in this period. And maybe even read the pointer movement - how far does it go. And another maybe is to try to vectorize the path and by that find fragiles in the direction. Maybe those are even better then time measuring.

- edit, after reading you previous post about grass and points -

Well, my idea fragiles idea won't work with grass and dots, that's for sure :)

CIM
09-25-2004, 02:43 PM
I'm not sure what's a chicken scratcher, but if it's a person who needs tons of small lines to draw one big line, so, though i'm not one of those, it can be a style. What's so bad with that? Is it because it uses a lot of undos, and maybe it's not healthy to your tablet?
oh well, it doesn't really matter to me :)

It's bad because it's very inefficient. A line generally should be completed in 1 to 2 strokes at the most, not 32 plus.

Chicken scratching, as I call it, isn't a style; it's really a technique of someone with an untrained mind and hand/arm (at drawing lines). It takes practice to overcome these novice tendencies (I was once a chicken scratcher). Start by putting dots down and then connecting them in one stroke, moving them further apart as you get more comfortable with your developing skills. Also, practice drawing circles and ellipses in one stroke too.

f97ao
09-25-2004, 07:03 PM
[QUOTE=CIM]It's bad because it's very inefficient. A line generally should be completed in 1 to 2 strokes at the most, not 32 plus.

Well, if it's not one line but many lines. Here are some fairly simple, old paintings I made 5-10 that show where I consider multiple short lines can be a good idea.

The edges of the foam in this example I made with a feather brush (i think that is what they call them) spinning the brush back and forth doing quick strokes.
http://www.fusion-wave.com/oil/4/lighthouse.jpg

the thin strings of water:
http://www.fusion-wave.com/oil/4/waterfall_and_rose.jpg

the green leaves
http://www.fusion-wave.com/oil/4/redbird.jpg

all the bushes and trees:
http://www.fusion-wave.com/wall/4/wall25.jpg

http://www.fusion-wave.com/wall/4/wall23.jpg

the hair strands on the cate is a very clear example:
http://www.fusion-wave.com/coal/4/cat.jpg

most of the leaves and also large chunks of the grass.
http://www.fusion-wave.com/coal/4/baltic_sea.jpg

most of the details I make with fairly short strokes, for the windows for example.
http://www.fusion-wave.com/digital/5/tower1.jpg

I just can't see how I would paint and draw the pictures above with few strokes, some parts yes. When I paint grass for example I normally don't do one stroke at a time, but do a long stroke that i move up and down very fast. Generally it will give you better results to do single strokes for grass, say 70% single strokes and the rest longer strokes. I personally think all those images above would have lost a great deal if I hadn't made those pretty strong impressive strokes. Can you please elaborate somewhat how the technique could be modified please, or point me somewhere were I can read more.

/Andreas

Self-Designer
09-25-2004, 07:14 PM
a good time to show some of your works, f97ao, isn't it? ;)

Well, in grass you can build a brush that scatters grass. Yet, u'll have to make several variations of it, and play with it...

Jinbrown
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Another thing that would be nice is if you can snapshot or hold a certain stage of your picture, so you can revert to it if you are not happy with your last changes.


Read Help > Help Topics on the subject of Iterative Save, then use that command to save your image at multiple stages.

And/Or....

Just to look at it, use File > Clone to take a "snap shot" flattened version of your image at multiple stages.

f97ao
09-26-2004, 05:42 AM
a good time to show some of your works, f97ao, isn't it? ;)
Well, in grass you can build a brush that scatters grass. Yet, u'll have to make several variations of it, and play with it...
well, i find it's easier to analys how things are done when I know exactly how it's done. Monet comes to mind too, with using many dots and small strokes, but then again I never saw him paint so harder to discuss.

To build a brush that scatters is nice in theory and useful for some things. However there are limitations in Painter (i sent in wishlists about solutions for painter 6,7,8) that doesn't make it so attractive to me at least.

And changing a Painting technique that the user likes, because of the software doesnt have more undoes, when it easily could have more doesn't make sense. Really having more undos is not that complicated to do, and myself I always thought undo was one of the very important benefits of digital art, so why weaken it?

/Andreas

f97ao
09-26-2004, 05:43 AM
Read Help > Help Topics on the subject of Iterative Save, then use that command to save your image at multiple stages.
Yes, the iterative saves should help some here.
And/Or....


Just to look at it, use File > Clone to take a "snap shot" flattened version of your image at multiple stages.

Hm, ok, I looked at the clone feature for this, will look some more.

Thanks for the ideas.
/Andreas

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