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danielh68
09-14-2004, 04:49 AM
Hi,

I've been using Painter 8 for a few months now and I still cannot figure out how the layers work. As a workaround, I actually export it to Photoshop and merge top to adjacent bottom layer. Anyhow, I can't figure out how to do that in Painter. When I "Drop" the top layer, it merges with the very bottom canvas layer, which isn't what I want. Is there a simple "Merge" down function?

Thanks,
Dan

Shogmaster
09-14-2004, 06:26 PM
In Painter 8, you hightlight the layers you want merged (holding down Shift), then "group" them, and then merge them together by the "collapse" command.

http://img80.exs.cx/img80/3823/paintermerge.jpg

danielh68
09-14-2004, 07:39 PM
Shogmaster,

I really appreciate the help, especially the easy step-by-step graphic you provided. Strange thing, though, everything is fine unitl stage four: "Collapse" is grayed out. I can't explain it, I grouped two layers, but when I reclick on the little button on the buttom left hand corner, the collapse feature is disabled. If you have any suggestions, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks again,
Dan

Shogmaster
09-14-2004, 11:57 PM
That's because one or more of your layers are probably on "gel" or something else other than "default". Set all layers to default before trying to merge them.

danielh68
09-15-2004, 01:04 AM
Thanks for your help again Shogmaster. I know why it's not doing it now. Since I go back and forth between Painter and Photoshop, I generally save the files as .PSD. The problem is that the "Collapse" feature doesn't work with .psd files. Just as a test, I saved it again as a native Painter file and the "Collapse" feature was suddenly enabled. Hmmm, not sure what to do about this, I guess I will continue with my same workaround. Anyhow, I really appreciate your help. Thank you.


Dan

Shogmaster
09-15-2004, 01:13 AM
That shouldn't matter. I always save in .PSD since RIFF isn't very reliable, and I merge layers all the time without problems in Painter. You just have to make sure that the rendering method for all the layers is set to "default".

edit: Yes, I just confirmed it. It has nothing to do with saving as .PSD or .RIF, but rather making sure that all the layers' rendering method is set to "default" or "normal".

http://img30.exs.cx/img30/6461/PainterPSDcollapsetest.jpg

danielh68
09-15-2004, 02:30 AM
Thanks again. You're right. It works just fine now. This will be such a time-saver.

By the way, I'm glad I'm not the only one that saves in .psd. I not only do that because I flip back and forth between programs, but when I first purchased Painter 8 I had two native files corrupt on me the first month.

take it easy -- Dan

Jinbrown
09-15-2004, 02:47 AM
Saving in .PSD is not reliable since Photoshop doesn't understand Painter specific things, including, among other things, some of Painter's Composite Methods.

Painter's Composite Method Normal is just like any other non-Default Composite Method in that it will cause the Collapse option to be greyed out.

The only Composite Method that will allow you to Group and Collapse is Default.

Saving a RIFF file as a PSD, then resaving the PSD as a RIFF will not automatically change Layers set to Composite Methods other than default to Layers set to Default.

Changing Layers that were created (painted) as other than Default Composite Method back to Default Composite Method will change the look of the Layer and the look of the image. In addition, some brush variants require the Layer to be in Composite Method Gel in order to look as intended. If you change them to Default, there can be some ugly consequences.

Shogmaster
09-15-2004, 03:13 AM
Saving in .PSD is not reliable since Photoshop doesn't understand Painter specific things, including, among other things, some of Painter's Composite Methods.

Painter's Composite Method Normal is just like any other non-Default Composite Method in that it will cause the Collapse option to be greyed out.

The only Composite Method that will allow you to Group and Collapse is Default.

Saving a RIFF file as a PSD, then resaving the PSD as a RIFF will not automatically change Layers set to Composite Methods other than default to Layers set to Default.

Changing Layers that were created (painted) as other than Default Composite Method back to Default Composite Method will change the look of the Layer and the look of the image. In addition, some brush variants require the Layer to be in Composite Method Gel in order to look as intended. If you change them to Default, there can be some ugly consequences.
Saving in PSD and having to look out for rendering differences was compromise I was willing to make rather then putting up with RIF corruption (which was way too often for me). What I do now is to take the piece to a cetain level, then drop all and save as PSD file.

I also find myself forcing normal/default layer rendering for tools like dirty marker that is defaulted to gel composite method (I actually prefer how it looks that way over the gel method).

Besides, I do prefer to do certain things in Photoshop like gradients (Painter's digital airbrush is too blotchy for my taste), so saving in PSD just make more sense for going back and forth.

theCloudmover
09-15-2004, 03:34 AM
The only Composite Method that will allow you to Group and Collapse is Default.

This is the most annoying thing I find in Painter 8. Sometimes, as stated, you must have a layer that is in a composite method other than default to create the effect you're going for in a piece.

To be restricted to one Layer style or have to save as a photoshop file in order to do a simple Layer Merge is moronic. :banghead:

This is the ONE change I'm looking for in Painter 9. If this is in the upgrade Corel has my $200.00

DigArts
09-15-2004, 02:59 PM
This is the ONE change I'm looking for in Painter 9. If this is in the upgrade Corel has my $200.00
Look around. PC Connection has it for $129. Better yet, do a CNET product search.

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