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celmar
09-11-2004, 08:31 AM
ok, Leo, I continue... on that picture, I think that the reflections in the water are out of the possibilities of zbrush... (well, I think...); but getting all the uv coordinates of the elements would be very annoying, and waste time; so everything has gone in carrara, with procedurals materials, and image mapping in tiles for the walls, as you can see by scrutating the reflection; then the whole scene has been textured in 2,5, in zbrush, of course on, the same angle... as you see, the result can "do it"... (well, I hope)... the main word is: quick, quick!!! in the time of uv editing of one of that color and bump map, everything is done in z...( and you know the old joke of my work:"what's the deadline? it's for yesterday...)... just add that doing that composite process is greatly easiest in global illumination; (here by hdri in carrara), as zbrush render is more "like" g.ill than raytrace with long shadows... arghhh, nobody's perfect!... amitiťs.M.

marciani
09-11-2004, 10:59 AM
Hi Marcel,
thx for your fast reply.:thumbsup:
If i well understand you do a rough render(plane with texture) only to achieve the reflection water picture references, then do the same in zbrush but with the 2,5 addiction and at the end of the process you made a composite between the render in ray tracing with the Zbrush render?
The Carrara rendering is export and put in a flat plane or you need to build the same scene (wall, water and other stuff..)in Zbrush and after you do the mix?
To achieve the same angle of view, you use some tips or only by the hand?
In this way you obtein a little bit"fake" then don't tell this anyone , if not tu fait la fin de Robespierre et Marat.................:D
Bye et merci
Leo

celmar
09-11-2004, 11:11 AM
well most of the time it's not necessary to do the scene twice. parts are sufficient.. sometimes it is... is it waste of time? ... maybe leo you have seen in orcs and goblins the little detail of the weapon holded by the orc; there is the metal end, and the wraped tissue; it's a very very small part of the pÓcture; if I want in a classic render engine, like carrara, to have the same thing: each of these little items must have their uvcoordonates, each color map has to be paint, each bump map has to be paint, each alpha map has to be, etc, etc... about, more or less, 2 hours just for that tiny details, against 2 minutes in z; but they need to be done so precisely, to achieve a real realism (even in cartoon approach) , like in reality... so, the inverse is true: for complicated reflections,I think it's necessary to take the time to "build" them in trad. softwares...

marciani
09-11-2004, 08:14 PM
Hi Marcel,
i'm tryng your tecnique but probably i miss some steps or i don't know what i miss....:sad:





i made a render in Lightwave, 2 plane a texture and a reflection surface a robot arm
I import in background the picture like a reference and i build in Z the same scene.
I made the render in Zbrush with only the plane Wall with Texture water surfaces, robot arm
Import both the render image and compose in photoshop
In this way i obtein the composite image but i can able of try advantage from 2,5 pixols because i consider the layer water like "empty"
In your image you put some algue verte up the plane are painted in photoshop or apply in Zbrush?
In your pics above, you build all the object in Carrara (i see the wall the block in the center and the body.......)?
The reflection plane obteined in Carrara, with all the reflection is applied on a plane in Zbrush(in this way you can apply an algue vert or a leaf or whatever you want) or only compose in photoshop?
Probably i'm a bit confused:shrug: , but i don'understand the step to achieve a reflection
Bonne soiree':rolleyes:
Merci
Leo

celmar
09-11-2004, 11:40 PM
leo, the compositing is a whole technique by itself... it's the only technique used in illustration, or advertising, the theoric fro,ntier between 2d and 3d is of course virtually non existent; it's very different for movie, or animationb... ok: I don't know lightwave, but all that softs are the same: you have a robot's arm; and a waterplane; build the scene in lightwave, make your composition, and once youre comfortable with it, do the render; try to get a procedural material rather "near" for the arm; once the render done (even a pre-render) print it (I work on several computers, and screens, it's easier...); then open a canvas in zbrush, and drop your robot's arm; (big canvas, there is a poor antialiasin,g in z); once dropped (2,5) , work on it by all the z brush; in bump, color, etc... rendere as near in lighjt as you can... don't worry too much, all the history of painting is full of lights which "can't exist", but they are just beauty...anyway, try to match in light, perspective, and as much you can; export and composite in aka photoshop... select just the arm, and begin to put it in the same place than the "lightwave"one... you have always to paint a little... but it's not difficult... it's just another technique, to do tghings really fast, and with the advantages of all the approach...

celmar
09-11-2004, 11:51 PM
I began to use extensively that technique when I get crazy with Hdri... that light was so subtle... and the environnement which was linked so interesting... but I 'm not really interested by complicated uvmaps... no problem to do, it's simple, but annoying... and once the realism of texture of zbrush experimented, it's difficult to "get back"... here is an example: the robaot has been imported in (more or less) low poly ( well, I mean not so subdivided) in carrara, and receive a quick (but not sio bad) shader... then I render in z just the robot, with all the 2,5 work... then I mix the both... of course, it's noticeable, if you look very "near"... it's noticeable like the perchman in some planes of movie... does'nt matter...

marciani
09-12-2004, 09:16 AM
Thx marcel,
Like i suppose you have a control because you know what are you doing and you know the tips to avoid some artifact.
You take a full hand from your illustrator background:applause:
But for me is a little bit different; i'm a sheep with the pencil in my hand, i haven't a background like your and in school every time i've been rejected in design, i do totally another work, and then mentally i'm stopped to try somethingh wich need my judge for shadow or perspective or other stuff wich you need to know.In my mind don't start the imagine , but an idea of this, the software make me able de le traduire.
I'm an aficionados of the clear shiny reflective mesh:D , and i try everywhere in my picture build almost of the part.......
For people like me Photoshop is only for resize o a little bit of collage!
Seriously,i think the touch of artist, the man which paint a man in prospective starting from a finger of the feet (Stan Lee ) is not for all, au contraire, if you have a determination ,patience, and volonte' you can reach presque everythingh.
In this, the software you chose help so much.
Sometime i thinkh, que aurais fait Michelangelo or Leonardo or Dali' with this software?
Sorry, for have turn the topic in a non technique explanation....but sometimes it's refreshingh and relaxing also.
Thank you Marcel
Bye
Leo

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