PDA

View Full Version : Animation: RoboCop vs. ED-209


KevinKraeer
09-06-2004, 07:58 AM
Hey everyone. Working on the first shots for this thing, which I hope to finish by 2215. I'm working on this as a study and a tribute...Phil Tippett is my idol, and RoboCop is one of my favorite sci-fi action flics from my youth.

Anyway, the link to the playblast for the first shot is here:
http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot1.avi

The link to the shot 2 playblast is here:
http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot2.avi

Here's the lighting sample for shot 1:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot1Lighting.jpg

And two lighting samples for shot 2, before and after he hits the light switch (still really unhappy with this lighting):

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot2LightingA.jpg

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot2LightingB.jpg

Definitely looking for C & C before selecting "Batch Render". Anyone who remembers this scene - lighting ideas are very welcome!

bigguns
09-06-2004, 08:54 AM
Wow man ED-209 is very well animated! Good job! Can't wait to see it finished!

KevinKraeer
09-06-2004, 10:07 AM
Thanks dude. I've been following your Terminator thread too. Awesome work, man.

I'll probably just keep posting shots here as I finish them. I always need more eyes and ears, since ya watch clips like this two or three hundred times while you're working.

Jeroen
09-06-2004, 11:32 AM
Phil Tippett is my idol

I hear you, but tell us how you made it, software and stuff

Sean121
09-06-2004, 12:46 PM
Hi kgkraeer,

I love that movie too. Your test shots look great! Looking forward to updates!

dcmoutinho
09-06-2004, 02:49 PM
good job !!!

Dave Anderson
09-06-2004, 03:29 PM
I hear you, but tell us how you made it, software and stuff I am also interested in hearing that ;)
great animation , and i think it's far better than in the movie
Great job! :thumbsup:

KevinKraeer
09-06-2004, 05:20 PM
Hey everybody. Wow, thanks for all the positive replies!

I made this with Maya 5. It's all done in there. Oh, and the textures were done in PS :).

I built the office by simply pausing the DVD at different points during the battle. It took a while...in fact, with the office and characters all together, it took about two and a half months worth of weekends to set up.

CGtalker JoeSchmo helped me out with the ED rig...which was giving me lots and lots of problems. I kept watching the movie when I first started rigging him, and realized that the bottom pieces slide up and down, and he slides up and down on them too. I had no clue how to automate that, and was preparing to keyframe it all manually, but Joe came up with the idea of using Set Driven Keys to control the scale of the "Hip bone". So, in the graph editor, there is a Set Driven Key curve for that bone that keeps the hip moving in a perfect arc, instead of moving like a simple knee on a smooth skinned character.

For more background on that mechanism, you can check out the original thread here:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=158825

The other characters were rigged using a modified version of the reverse-foot tutorial on www.highend3d.com. I'd provide the link but they seem down at the moment (if you go and they're online: Maya > Tips and Tutorials > Rigging > Real-Time Character Setup for Maya). All I did was add hand controllers, finger curlers, and additional IK controls for each arm.

All the animation is keyframed. For complicated motions I'm looking at the DVD. I'm not holding myself to that exactly though.

Thanks again for checking it out!

Captain
09-06-2004, 05:57 PM
I just want to say this looks absolutley superb. I can't wait to see it finished. I must ask, however, why are you making an all cg version of this scene? Keep up the great work.

Jeroen
09-06-2004, 06:50 PM
is it possible to show a little movie with the rig so you can show some examples with the set driven keys and stuff.

KevinKraeer
09-06-2004, 07:08 PM
Captain: thanks man. I totally understand your question. I debated for a long time about the merit of recreating something that, well, has already been created. As a student of great animated sequences, I feel that recreating what has worked - and realizing why and how it worked - is integral to develop one's own abilities as a CG pro. Plus, I'm going through some tough stuff right now and working with a childhood superhero is therapuetic :).

Jeroen: Take a look at this:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/MechLeg_5.0.mb

When you open it up, select the 'hip' bone, then open the Graph Editor. If the curve looks like a straight line, press "F" to focus in, and you'll see it's almost a perfect parabola. What the curve does is, whenever the bottom part of the leg rotates in Z, the hip bone scales in X. The curve - along with point and orient constraints - keeps these two attributes in proportion with one another. The bottom leg bone is also limited in its Z rotation, so it can never rotate beyond a certain point.

Until JoeSchmo showed this to me, I had no idea Set Driven Keys (SDK's) could be used that way. With some modification, it ended up working out really, really well.

borchert
09-06-2004, 08:05 PM
I really like the animation !
Will you be making the ( Dick ... Your fired ! ) scene too?
I always hated that Dick-guy. :bounce:

KevinKraeer
09-06-2004, 08:11 PM
That's funny, your the second person to ask if I'm planning to do that. I didn't realize that scene was so popular heh.

Maybe down the road I'll do that. I'd have to build a new RoboCop, with the leg holster, and Peter Weller's whole face. I'd also have to build and animate like 15 businesspeople around the table, including likenesses for Dan O'Herlihy and the guy who played Johnson. To top it off, I'd have to do blood and gore. Yeah, that would be tough, but maybe eventually :).

OceanMachine45
09-06-2004, 08:34 PM
Looks incredible so far man, I really can't wait to see more of this. Robocop was one of my favorite movies as a kid, too...and it still holds up as an amazing action movie. :buttrock:

For the sound, are you matching up the movie sounds with your shots?

Jeroen
09-06-2004, 08:34 PM
Thanks for the scene.

I only have Softimage at my computer I will look at it on school tomorrow.



It is a nice challenge, his holster in his leg.

KevinKraeer
09-06-2004, 09:35 PM
Hey Jeroen, no problemo. It's really something to see that in action, I started using SDK's for everything when I realized you could make connections like that.

OceanMachine - Glad you like it! Yeah, I'm synching everything with sound from a DVD audio capture thingy.

Here's an update (shot3):

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot3.avi

and a lighting test:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot3Lighting.jpg

OceanMachine45
09-06-2004, 09:49 PM
"...now it's time to erase that mistake!!"


Looks sick man...keep 'em comin.

shiro24
09-06-2004, 10:09 PM
Hey looks good, im impressed. Although i really do prefer the animation of the old ed. Something in that jerky stop motion is really disturbing. No offense, as i said im still impressed!

KevinKraeer
09-06-2004, 10:22 PM
heh thanks man. I agree. I probably could've gone that route, but I would not finish this piece til I was in my 70s.

Workin' on "Now it's time to erase that mistake". Update soon...

KevinKraeer
09-07-2004, 01:41 AM
Shot 4:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot4.avi

Lighting without ED in the shot:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot4Lighting.jpg

with ED:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot4LightingEd.jpg

I'm aware that Jones' hand looks a little weird. But it's only in the shot for a second....I'm also thinking about maybe letterboxing the whole thing, but that might make some people do this: :rolleyes:.

plaguelord
09-07-2004, 01:48 AM
You MUST finish this!

looks real good, I hope to see more soon!

OceanMachine45
09-07-2004, 01:59 AM
Wow...the lip sync on that shot is really good. How'd you manage that accuracy on a low poly model?? :thumbsup:

OceanMachine45
09-07-2004, 02:02 AM
Oooh...one thing I noticed as I played the clips in sequence...It's not a big deal yet, and can easily be adjusted in the editing process, but the 4th shot shouldn't start with the camera stagnant, it should be panning upwards as soon as we see the shot.

KevinKraeer
09-07-2004, 02:07 AM
Thanks plaguelord. I will definitely finish this. Of course, I have to go to my web design job all week. But I'll be back in action next weekend. Tonight I'm going to set up some renders for the shots that are officially in the can (1,2, & 3).

OceanMachine - The answer to your question is "I don't know". Heh. One of my problems as a CG artist is I never know the difference btw high and lo poly as I'm working (there's a jack nicholson around here I'm working on that demonstrates this problem). For stuff like this, I basically take it all the way until it looks like him, then stop and leave it alone.

I always figure as long as the edgeloops are there to make the mouth shapes, and as long as it looks like the real guy, I'm 'good to go'.

Glad you're diggin it! This is seriously the most fun I've had since I started CG animation. You should try it, pick a favorite movie or scene and do a remake....you learn a ton and it's really gratifying.

KevinKraeer
09-07-2004, 02:11 AM
yeah, I think it stays still for a second, but then goes up.

I might be starting the pan up too late...

Jeroen
09-07-2004, 07:57 AM
But what have you dun with robocop.

In the captured movies I of course miss textures but I also miss some parts on his chest.

Did you made a different model for this or does the body exist of different parts?

and a tip, with your latest clip when the man speaks, he hardly moves. When we stand still our body still moves a little bit, just a few pixels :)
Try to moves his lower arm a little bit for example, just a few pixels to make it look more real

wedge
09-07-2004, 08:50 AM
this is really brilliant! the lighting could use a bit of work. have you tried using FG, or dirtmap+mix8layer? would give everything a more natural look, i think.

KevinKraeer
09-07-2004, 02:46 PM
Hey Jeroen - In the playblasts, RoboCop's chest is missing because my graphics card, or DIrectX (or what-have-you) can't handle layered shaders. I've got a near completely transparent layer on top, and that fights with the solid one underneath. All the geometry's there, though...RoboCop is all one piece.

Wedge, thanks for checking this out! I will do some FG tests, for sure. How do I try dirtmap+mix8layer? I wouldn't want to get too dirty since the office in the flic is really clean.

KevinKraeer
09-08-2004, 03:32 AM
Update - did a lighting/motion test by rendering shot 2:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot2test.mov

The first thing you'll notice is that the floor is missing. But I think I've fixed that (Motion blur in Render stats was checked).

The one thing I am not sure how to fix yet is the glow effect on the blue neon and the standing lamp in the FG. You'll notice that they pulse unreailstically, then go off completely.

So if you guys have any ideas, I'm all ears. The first thing I'm planning to try is "Turning auto-exposure off" from Rhonda's Top Ten. If I can just find where the hell to do that.....

wedge
09-08-2004, 08:28 AM
correcting glow flicker (http://www.jawa9000.com/technical/glows/glows.htm)

the render looks really nice! dirtmap wouldn't really dirty it up, it would just add shadowing in small cracks and between objects that are really close together. it just seems that things are lit up too much. then again, i haven't watched that scene in a while, so maybe it does look like that.

coming along great!

Supervlieg
09-08-2004, 08:44 AM
Looking good, I like the animation. Except for when Jones is talking, he looks like a robot. He's just moving his mouth.

Are you gonna try some GI lighting? I think the scene could really benefit from it. It looks a bit clinical right now, almost realtime, shadow-wise. (Im judging by the lighting tests obviously.)

Anyhoo, great stuff. I like the ED 209 model a lot. I might have to make me one of those in the future :)

KevinKraeer
09-08-2004, 04:53 PM
Thanks for checking it out. Yeah, I considered GI but decided against it for two reasons. First, I don't know much about it and I already had this huge sequence planned, that I knew would be a lot of work...so I felt that cutting my losses and working with a complicated convential light setup would work pretty well, and so far it has. The second reason I decided against it was the render time involved. Using the old school software renderer + 2d motion blur, I can set up a 6 second shot before I go to bed, and wake up and it'll be done.

Granted, if I spent time setting up an efficient GI scene, it would not take that long to do this with GI. But, considering that each shot has a different lighting setup and changing light linking for each object...heh, I just felt my time was better spent focusing on the motion.

Speaking of which, as far as shot 4, I agree with everyone's comments, and plan to make some tweaks in the coming days. I think the camera needs to move up sooner ( and smoother), and I think he needs a little more motion...which deviates a bit from the movie. He actually does stand there sorta robot-like during that speech :shrug:.

I re-rendered shot 2 last night and everything has been fixed! I'll post an update tonight.

Thanks again for your help and advice, everybody.

Jeroen
09-09-2004, 07:40 AM
When he walks I think that the leg should come more from above before he tuches the ground. Now it looks like he is almost going to slide
:)

KevinKraeer
09-09-2004, 04:58 PM
Hmmm, I'll take another look at that.

I've decided to hold off on updates until this weekend. There's no point watching the same motion with the same sound files over and over, rendered or no.

I'm in the midst of rendering shot 1 and shot 2, I'll likely tweak shot 4 and then render that guy on Friday.

About ED looking like he's going to slide...I think that's part of his walk style. I've looked at this motion sooooo much over the past few weeks, and part of the challenge has been 'adjusting' from stop motion to CG tweened animation. I think that for tweened work, this is as close as I'm going to get. With stop motion, there may be a few frames where the foot is slightly higher here or there...but for tweening I'm kind of guaging the overall motion and this is my 'best guess'.

Thanks for the feedback. More updates in a couple days...

TFarrar
09-09-2004, 05:06 PM
Looks Great :thumbsup:

KevinKraeer
09-11-2004, 07:32 AM
OK. So here's the final render so far:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/finalTest.mov

I'm gonna keep moving on this, but I already know I have to revisit shot 4, for the glow flicker at least. Damn you, auto exposure. Damn you to hell.

Let me know what you think!

[EDIT] I haven't put up the screen yet with credits to Phil Tippett, Paul Verhoeven, and the sound designers (as well as the musician). That's why RoboCop hangs without moving for a moment. [\EDIT]

MisterE
09-11-2004, 07:57 AM
Ahhhhh, kraeer, I'm sorry I missed this thread! I downloaded every clip posted included the one you posted 10 min's earlier. This is turning out to be AWWEESSOME!

I admire your animation method. You said in one post you paused the DVD every now to switch back n' forth between that and Maya, correct? Do you copy it frame-by-frame, keyframe-by-keyframe (er, rotoscope)? Or do you, like, say for example "Okay, the lift of his leg lasts 1 second, so make a keyframe at frame 0 and one at frame 30"?
I did the latter w/ my Matrix animation and it turned out really well. If it comes down to making an animation from a movie, I prefer that method due to the fact w/ rotoscoping, copying it literally frame-by-frame, you learn nothing and the animation may look choppy. Not to mention what a pain it would be to edit it.
1. The subtle movements Robo makes in the beginning is very nice. Again, perhaps consider very, VERY subtle mouth/lip movements - maybe almost unnoticeable.
[End of rant heh] But seriously, excellent job. Here are some crit's/comments:
2. When ED enters the room, I think his feet should have more lift or bend angle. It doesn't seem to rotate much.
3. When Jones is looking at Robo while backing up and pressing the button to get ED out, the animation is quite nice. No crit's there!
4. The mouth or Robo when trying to get up is captured nicely. Though it might look better if you animated some morph targets ever so slightly to give a nice, subtle, more human look to Murphy.
5. Now, the mouth of Jones. As someone pointed out, it looks robot-y. I like how you didn't animate the mouth stiffly, and that it does move. But I think it moves too fast and too much. Smooth that out a bit and see how it goes.

Otherwise, you have done an excellent job. Let's see more!!

P.S. Do you like Robocop 2? Ever considered doing an animation w/ Cain?

KevinKraeer
09-11-2004, 08:03 AM
rocks - I agree totally. I was hoping someone would point that stuff out. I feel like I never know anymore!!!

I think a better method will be to just keep posting playblasts. Rendering takes too much time. Maybe I'll just render shots that might look wonky after a render, to make sure (like shot 4). I'll probably make those changes Sunday, and render overnight for crits. Tomorrow, I'm planning the great "ED walking in the foreground and RoboCop writhing in pain" shot. Should be fun.

Thanks again dude.

KevinKraeer
09-11-2004, 08:20 AM
Oh, I didn't answer any of your questions...

My animation method is as follows:

Watch the DVD...work in Maya for about an hour, playblasting when 60-100 frames are done. Then watch the DVD again, and change all the keyframes to match everything up; within reason. I might playback a portion every 15 minutes or so to get an angle right for one particular pose, then keep going. I never work pose to pose, just straight through. So, no - I don't have an AVI as a viewport background.

I've never thought about doing Cain (RoboCop2), mainly because I didn't like that movie. RoboCop 1 is the only one I ever acknowledged. I think, purely from an animation standpoint - and thats it - that Tippett and Craig Hayes topped themselves with that mech...but it never did anything compelling...it had no real story to it.

There's a user around here who did a badass Robo 2 model though...it's in the "Post Your Mechs" thread in "Legacy/Finished Work". It's top drawer.

Texamosix
09-11-2004, 08:51 AM
The metal shaders and animation look dead-on. Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:

MisterE
09-11-2004, 06:40 PM
Hey kraeer. You're just using standard Maya lights/render, correct? How long does it take for each frame to render out? How many polys, in total, are we talking also? Because I know you tried to keep this as low-game poly as possible and it sucks to have to wait so long for a clean render.

neversong
09-11-2004, 07:04 PM
kgkraeer,

this is very cool so that it just feels too short.

is this all? or more to come?


cheers,

-Hwasup Song

KevinKraeer
09-11-2004, 07:36 PM
rocky - The render time per frame varies, because all three characters never are actually together in the same Maya scene. I'm also turning off parts of the office using Layers.

On the average, the poly count for a given scene is about 20,000-25,000. The render time, at 640x480 with 2D motion blur and high quality anti-aliasing is - on the average - about a minute per frame (using a dual processor machine).

Again, those numbers vary....like shot 2, with ED walking out, was like a minute and a half to two minutes per frame, because it was a complicated light setup (the environment, and each character are all lit separately using light linking). This latest shot 4 took about a minute per frame, but I rendered it twice (one pass for Dick Jones, a second pass for ED).

All the lights are the standard maya type lights.

neversong - I'm a huge fan of your work. The reason this feels too short is because there's a lot more to come. It should be somewhere in the neighborhood of two minutes long when complete.

Thanks for checking it out!

SuperXCM
09-11-2004, 08:09 PM
Amazing!! :scream:

Want to see more!!:thumbsup:

KevinKraeer
09-11-2004, 08:12 PM
Update.

shot 1:
http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot1a.avi

shot2:
http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot2a.avi

shot3:
http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot3a.avi

shot4:
http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot4a.avi


The revisions I made are as follows:
- shot 1: added subtle mouth movement
- shot 2: added more lift to each of ED's footsteps
- shot 3: added subtle mouth movement again
- shot 4: reduced the amount of facial distortion when Dick Jones speaks

Let me know what you think!

MisterE
09-11-2004, 09:18 PM
Shaping up very nicely. More crit's to help you along :)
Just popped in the Robocop Criterion DVD :D . I haven't watched the movie in quite some time, so it's a good time to compare what's in the movie and what you have.
1. Very difficult to see any changes. In the movie, you can see he's overcoming the clenching of his teeth and attempting to regroup himself. In your clip, from his lips, it appears he is doing his best Keanu Reeves impersonation, like "Whoa, where am I? What am I doing here?" So, I would show some more emotion by have him slightly grinding his teeth (or un-grinding), and have the muscle group associated w/ smiling (forget the name) moving too. But again, the key to this scene is subtlety.
2. (From the movie) Oh my god, I didn't realize how bad (by today's standards) ED-209 moves! Ah, it's so choppy! Stop motion animation at its' finest in the '80s! This must be one of your most difficult shots to match, I would assume? But from YOUR clip you provided, I like what you have changed. It still feels like the feet should have more of a fluid dynamic motion (like an ocean wave....though, of course, not THAT smooth considering ED is a robot, after all). But it's definitely shaping better than before.
3. Very nice addition. Though, overall, his mouth in the movie looks a bit more closed - he is coming back to reality.
4. Jones blinks real fast in the beginning of his sentence. He also rolls his eyes over towards ED as soon as he passes him by. But the lip and jaw movement has definitely improved.

Hope I was able to assist you :)

KevinKraeer
09-11-2004, 09:32 PM
Thanks dude.

As for #1, I agree and disagree. I see where you're coming from re the teeth and his strained expression....but the most strained/awhward facial expressions are just before he drops his gun, which I decided not to include for this piece. One of the things that struck me as really interesting about this sequence is that he DOES look really kind of dumbfounded/confused the whole time. It's like Murphy's been knocked out and the robot parts + his soul are the only things moving him around.

#2, actually, I was surprised how easily that shot fell into place. I've been wanting to animate it for forever, so I worked really intensely on it for a couple hours...the rig reeeally helped. It's a very solid and fluid setup.

I think I may keep shot 3 in the can. I already have more mouth movement than was in the movie.

And shot 4, the mouth movement I think is a wrap, but I will work on making the eye movement more apparent.

Thanks again!!!

KevinKraeer
09-12-2004, 08:22 AM
Shot 5 is ready to be torn apart:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot5.avi

And the lighting setup:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot5Lighting.jpg

Let me know how it looks.

Jeroen
09-12-2004, 10:40 AM
question, what is robocop doing, dancing? :)

KevinKraeer
09-12-2004, 06:09 PM
Heh. He's supposed to be backing up in agony.

Hmm. Guess this one needs more work. I'm going to take a break and move on to the next shot, then come back to it later today.

MisterE
09-12-2004, 07:47 PM
I respect your artistic view on wanting to leave most things. Hope to see more! Speaking of which, this shot 5 is PERFECT! No crit's. And that still image? Flawless! Metal shader looks amazing here. The lighting on the door looks good too. Did you tweak the lighting in that area?

OceanMachine45
09-12-2004, 08:21 PM
WOW dude, shot 5 is perfect. I'm very impressed. :thumbsup:

MisterE
09-12-2004, 09:20 PM
Heh. He's supposed to be backing up in agony.

Hmm. Guess this one needs more work. I'm going to take a break and move on to the next shot, then come back to it later today.
Noooooooo! Disregard what Jeroen said! Ocean & I agree: shot 5 is PERFECT! Do not touch a thing! LOL!

Ac0rN
09-12-2004, 09:32 PM
Nice to see some progress, I liked some of the shots, very cool... hope to se more animations :thumbsup:

KevinKraeer
09-12-2004, 10:25 PM
Sweet. had to take a little break, I worked on that shot like 10 or 11 hrs. yesterday and I'm having trouble staying in front of the 'puter today.

Shot 6, which last 2 seconds - and has robocop backing up and raising an arm to feebly protect himself - is harder than I thought it would be.

I'm still hoping to knock out 6 & 7 today, leaving the glass shatter for next weekend.

WesleyTack
09-12-2004, 11:15 PM
i gotta say, i'm lovin every second of this, real nice animating and staying true to the original movie, man, can't wait to see this finished!
lovely to watch

KevinKraeer
09-13-2004, 12:57 AM
Shot 6 is ready:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot6.avi

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot6Lighting.jpg

Time to make ED pop off a few rounds :).

plaguelord
09-13-2004, 01:29 AM
this is going better and better :thumbsup:

MisterE
09-13-2004, 06:11 AM
Hard to crit this new one because it's so short. But from what I see, I like the subtle mouth variations. Can't wait to see the glass shatter shot!

Grashupfa
09-13-2004, 08:45 AM
WOW dude, i like it ^^

But i agree with the mouth, it looks like he wants to kiss somebody :love:

KevinKraeer
09-13-2004, 05:08 PM
Hehe. Well, that won't do. Maybe a little more mouth variation on that shot...

I got to ED walking and popping off a few rounds last evening, but simply ran out of gas..and had to get ready for the week. I'll be back next wknd. with more though.

Thanks for checking it out!

sculpter21
09-13-2004, 11:42 PM
thats awesome do you need help with any of it


AL(X)

KevinKraeer
09-13-2004, 11:51 PM
Hey thanks for the offer!

Although, part of the challenge I'm setting for myself is to do the whole thing solo and maintain the same quality throughout.

So, I'm not up for any help at the moment, but I really appreciate it.

JoeSchmo
09-14-2004, 04:33 AM
Hey kgkraeer,

A bunch of people are sending me PMs, asking
if I will do a little tutorial on the rig setup (step by step
on the constraints and SDK).

I could do one, but I'm trying to meet deadlines right now,
so it might be several weeks before I can get to it.

I was gonna see if you want to do it instead since you have
all the files...

Joe

PS Looks great so far

KevinKraeer
09-14-2004, 06:54 AM
Hmm. I suppose I could tomorrow, does that work?

Do I just post it inside here, or start a new WIP thread?

h3kno
09-14-2004, 07:20 AM
I wouldn't mind if you just post in here because i'm already subscribed to this thread. It would be greatly appreciated. Thank you and hope to see something good tomorrow. hehe. Add pictures and make it details. =D

KevinKraeer
09-14-2004, 05:36 PM
Update on the tute...I have had some work falll into my lap so it may be a while.

Hopefully, I'll have some time sometime this week to write this thing up.

KevinKraeer
09-14-2004, 08:16 PM
Ok...I'm kind of backwards engineering Joe's sample...hopefully this is illustrative enough for everyone. The final file is available here:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/MechLeg.mb

Step 1:

Create the basic leg shapes. Start by creating the hip piece, then rotating 45 degrees to get an orientation like the one shown below. Name this piece "hipGeometry", and freeze transformations on it. Leave the pivot point centered to the object for now.

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/tut1.jpg

Next, create the lower leg shape, and rotate it so that it fits into the bottom part of the hip... Finally create the toe, name it toeGeometry, and arrange as shown below:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/tut3.jpg


Step 2:

Next create four bones in this order: Hip, Knee, Ankle, Toe. Make sure they're arranged inside your geometry as shown below:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/tut4.jpg

Parent the toeGeometry to the ankle joint.

Step 3:

Add an IKRP handle from the hip to the ankle joint. Name the handle ankleIK.Set up some control objects using a box or some simple curve shapes as shown below. We need a control object to make it easier to grab the foot and move the leg all around, and the other curve controls a pole vector constraint. This helps to twist the leg for further adjustment and to achieve additional poses.

Name the box around the foot "footControl", and the small shape behind the leg "PVcontrol". Freeze transformations on both shapes.

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/tut5.jpg


Step 4:

Select the footControl box we just made, then ankleIK, and go Constrain > Point. Next, select PVcontrol, then ankleIK, and go Constrain > Pole Vector. Lastly, select the footControl again, then the ankle joint, and go Constrain > Orient.

If you move the leg now, the foot should move but nothing else will. So now we have to constrain the leg pieces to the skeleton.

Step 5:

Select the lower leg piece (legGeometry) and press "W". Now press the "insert" key, and the anchor point can be moved. Hold the "V" key, and move the pivot to the 'knee" joint as shown below. Holding the V key turns on vertex snap, but this will also snap to joints.

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/tut6.jpg

The axes are oriented differently in this image because under Window > Settings/Preferences > Tool Settings I've selected "Local" as the axis to display. Your settings are probably set at "World".

Do the same thing for the hip piece (hipGeometry), moving the pivot point to the actual hip bone:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/tut7.jpg

Because we froze transformations on this geometry a few steps ago, the axis should look the way it does above (Maya has set all rotations on the object to zero). So, if your Y axis is pointing up and out along the same angle as the hip bone, be sure to freeze transformations on this geometry (Modify > Freeze Transformations).

Step 6:

Now to set up the constraints that will make the leg work as planned. Select the hip geometry, then the legGeometry, and go Constrain > Orient. The lower leg may go very wonky suddenly. Almost always, offset values need to be set to maintain the correct angle during this process, so go over to the channel box, and select the orient constraint in the history. An X offset of -38.29 seems to set things right. Your setup may behave differently/need different values.

Next, select the knee bone then the legGeometry and go Constrain > Orient. My offset values for this constraint are

Offset X: -38.29
Offset Y: 90
Offset Z: 52.815

Though yours may be different. Lastly for this piece, select the knee bone then legGeometry, and go Constrain > Point. From now on, the lower leg piece should move and rotate with the knee bone.

Step 7:

Now to take care of the hip. Select legGeometry, then select hipGeometry, and go Constrain >Orient. I have an X Offset value here of 38.29. Next select the knee joint, then the hipGeomtery and go Constrain>Orient. My offset values for this operation are:

Offset X: 3.636
Offset Y: 90
Offset Z: 54.748

Finally, select the hip bone then the hipGeometry and go Constrain >Point.

If, instead of rotating to a wild angle, your leg pieces translate someplace, you may have forgotten to set up your pivot points with the joints as illustrated above.

If you move the leg now, you'll see that you've almost got what you want. The only problem is that the bottom leg doesn't slide reliably through the piece we want in the upper leg.

Step 8:

So here's the heart of the setup, the Set Driven Key. What we end up doing is, when the lower leg bone is rotated in Z, we want the hip bone to extend (scale) along the X axis. By setting specific hip scaling values for each value of the bottom leg's rotation, we keep the pieces aligned the way we want. In the end, we're creating a setup that preserves the arc of the upper leg instead of interpolating the values and giving us the middle ground we have now.

To make our lives easier, let's set some limits on how far the lower leg bone can rotate. Select the leg bone and open the Attribute Editor (Ctrl+A). Open the "Limit Information" rolldown. To the right of Rot Z, Mark the checkboxes for Min and Max. The fields should become live. Enter -30 for the Min value, and 40 for the Max.

Now Go to Animate > Set Driven Key > Set > options. Select the leg bone and press "Load Driver". Then select the hip bone and press "Load Driven". In the upper right box, make sure "rotateZ" is highlighted for the driver, and highlight "scaleX" for the driven in the lower right box. Press set key.

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/tut8.jpg

Now, still nothing much has changed. But, we've set up a relationship between these two properties that we can use to finish this thing off.

Select the hip bone and go Window > Animation Editors > Graph Editor. You should see the hip bone in the left panel, with Scale X in red italics. Select this Scale X.

Zoom into the graph until the bottom numbers read from -30 to +40, and the left hand numbers go from 1 to 1.5 (the hip bone should not need to scale past 1.5 to maintain the structure). Now draw a selection box around the right part of the editor until the solitary key we created is selected (should be at 1 on the Y axis). Go Edit > Copy, then Edit > Paste to set another key further along the timeline.

Notice that the upper left reads "hip.scaleX" and the lower right reads "knee.rotateZ". We're about to create a visual represntation of the relationship we've created.

Continue copying and pasting keys, and adjusting the curve points until you achieve the shape below:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/tut9.jpg

You may need to add points and adjust values to get the exact result you're after, but this is the basic concept. So, by using the curve above, Maya will - for example - scale the hip joint to 1.025 when the lower leg rotates to -12, and scale to 1.05 when rotated to positive 12. Thus the arc of motion we want is maintained.

For my ED, I added foot/toe scrunch controls, as well as an additional pivot so the lower leg could swivel on the slidey piece...all of which can be done using the magic of grouping and set driven keys.

Let me know if this makes sense!

h3kno
09-15-2004, 04:39 AM
Thanks alot for this tutorial. its easy to follow although i'm getting the exact results. I'm sure i'm doing it wrong. Like if my move my control box for the toe, sometimes the legGeometry will swivel on an axis. Or if i pull the leg back a lil bit, it'll go all crazy and bend the other way...any explanations?

H3kno

KevinKraeer
09-15-2004, 07:10 AM
Hmm, it will be tough without seeing your rig. You can PM it to me and I'll see what I can figure out.

The best thing is to try completing the setup over and over...that's what I had to do. I tore Joe's rig apart, took notes on where various constraints and such were applied, then I started a new scene and tried to recreate it, it took a few tries. But it felt really good to finally figure it out. You can really use SDK curves for anything.

But, yeah, shoot it over via my email (you can visit my homepage, the contact link is on the opening page) and I'll take a look.

KevinKraeer
09-19-2004, 07:34 PM
Update: ED-209 pops off a few rounds.

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot7test.mov

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot7a.JPG

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot7b.JPG

I would post Robo backing up in horror, but those renders take a while cause of the spec on Robo's head. Probably will do that over tonight.

plaguelord
09-19-2004, 07:49 PM
yeahhh, I want more action! :P

MisterE
09-19-2004, 10:13 PM
That is AWESOME! Absolutely no crit's here. The sound f/x really highten the action!

Jeroen
09-20-2004, 07:52 AM
Looks great.

How did you do those light effects?

KevinKraeer
09-20-2004, 02:37 PM
Thanks man. The light effects were a combination of keyframing a light on and off and the end of each arm, and making drawings of the flames in Photoshop.

Then each set of muzzle flames was composited in after FX when the lights were at their brightest.

Lotus7
09-20-2004, 04:07 PM
AWESOME :twisted: :eek: :bounce:
MORE MORE hehehehe

jussing
09-21-2004, 04:51 PM
He, cool, reminds me I've only seen RoboCop once, and that's a long time ago... gotta do something about that... :)

Have you concidered off-syncinc the left and right gun by a few frames? (the last muzzle has a tiny little bit of it, but not very much). I think that might work well. (but then again, it looks like you've studied the original very much, so maybe you're doing it exactly like they did)

Cheers,
- Jonas

KevinKraeer
09-21-2004, 09:05 PM
Hey man. Yeah, they're synched intentionally. There's only the slightest out-of-synch flashing/firing.

Yeah, you gotta see the movie again, see if someone will lend you the Criterion DVD. That's the director's cut, it's dope. I've seen this flick too many times, it was a staple of my junior high experience.

Thanks for checking it out!

KevinKraeer
09-25-2004, 04:21 AM
Well, I'm in the midst of RoboCop crashing through glass, which is kind of a nightmare. It's one of those "move-something-and-wait-ten-minutes-for-the-viewport-to-update" sort of scenes.

In the meantime, I thought it might be interesting to put together the whole thing so far. So here's the latest complete comp with the newly completed shots:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/finalTest.mov

Let me know what you think!

Dave Anderson
09-25-2004, 01:33 PM
It looks amazing , if those models wery hight poly , you could have cutted out that scene from the original movie and putted in your version (its far better ) :thumbsup:

i got absolutely no critz , great work ! :)
btw what rendering system did you use for that ?

KevinKraeer
09-25-2004, 05:19 PM
Heh thanks man. I'm using Maya software.

MisterE
09-25-2004, 08:37 PM
Some things I think still need addressing:
1. When Jones is saying "Now it's time to erase that mistake," when it gets to "time to erase that mistake" I still think his mouth (lips and jaws) are moving a little too much. Tone it down a bit. Unless your goal here is to make it slightly cartoony - though I don't believe that was your original goal.
2. In the same scene, after ED-209 walks past, and I mentioned this before, his eyes should follow ED.
3. When ED is coming after Robo, and Robo puts his left arm on the ground to push himself up, it looks like you're using an IK chain and while it stretches outwards it also pops too fast at the same time! I may be wrong though, so please excuse me.
He also needs more weight. When he does push himself up, the arm doesn't look it is pushing all of his body/armor up, but rather just supporting the weight.

Everything else looks very good though. When Robo is on his feet again and backing off, for example, that looks superb. The firing of the rounds by ED-209 is amazing as well.
We also discussed this before, but I said it would be cool if Robo were to show off some teeth in the beginning, as he is coming around again after glitching up, but you chose to leave it as. So that decision is up to you......But after all, the clenching teeth IS your avatar :shrug: .

What does everyone else think? Teeth or no teeth in the beginning part?? :D

Sean121
09-25-2004, 08:44 PM
Hey kgkraeer,

It's looking great!! Looking forward to more updates :)

peachstapler
09-25-2004, 08:47 PM
OCP Boss: Dick... you're fired!
Robocop: Thank you.

PS - This is awesome.

KevinKraeer
09-26-2004, 12:22 AM
Some things I think still need addressing:
1. When Jones is saying "Now it's time to erase that mistake," when it gets to "time to erase that mistake" I still think his mouth (lips and jaws) are moving a little too much. Tone it down a bit. Unless your goal here is to make it slightly cartoony - though I don't believe that was your original goal.
2. In the same scene, after ED-209 walks past, and I mentioned this before, his eyes should follow ED.
3. When ED is coming after Robo, and Robo puts his left arm on the ground to push himself up, it looks like you're using an IK chain and while it stretches outwards it also pops too fast at the same time! I may be wrong though, so please excuse me.
He also needs more weight. When he does push himself up, the arm doesn't look it is pushing all of his body/armor up, but rather just supporting the weight.

Everything else looks very good though. When Robo is on his feet again and backing off, for example, that looks superb. The firing of the rounds by ED-209 is amazing as well.
We also discussed this before, but I said it would be cool if Robo were to show off some teeth in the beginning, as he is coming around again after glitching up, but you chose to leave it as. So that decision is up to you......But after all, the clenching teeth IS your avatar :shrug: .

What does everyone else think? Teeth or no teeth in the beginning part?? :D
I agree about number 1, that is still bothering me too. It's like his face fell asleep and he's waking his mouth up. His eyes actually do follow ED, but his eyes are so beady you can barely tell. I may need to exaggerate it a bit.

I'll revisit the shot mentioned in #3, and see what I can do. Right now, I'm working on this glass shattering and it's killing me.

I'm glad the only crits are tweaks though, and that for the most part you're all diggin it. That's encouraging.

MisterE
09-26-2004, 01:38 AM
I agree about number 1, that is still bothering me too. It's like his face fell asleep and he's waking his mouth up. His eyes actually do follow ED, but his eyes are so beady you can barely tell. I may need to exaggerate it a bit.

I'll revisit the shot mentioned in #3, and see what I can do. Right now, I'm working on this glass shattering and it's killing me.

I'm glad the only crits are tweaks though, and that for the most part you're all diggin it. That's encouraging.
Yeah, and I hope I'm not coming off as "mean" or anything w/ the crit's. Like I said the rest looks fabulous and it's obvious you spent a LOT of time matching not only the animation, but the lighting, the interior, the models, etc, etc. It's just, as you said yourself, very minor tweaks to fix up.

But it is a real treat each time we see new updates :) . And we hope to see more! :bounce:

KevinKraeer
10-11-2004, 06:38 AM
Robo updates. I finally have the glass somewhere where it's crit-able. It's not quite done yet though. In the spirit of keeping the momentum going, I'm gonna move on and come back to shots 8 and 9 at the end. I've incorporated all of your suggestions into the new render, although I think that Jones may still talk slightly weirdly:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/finalTestA.mov

You'll notice that it jumps at the end. I have to re-render 9 completely because it's half old stuff and half new (render globals got messed). Incidentally, I'm having a lot of trouble with glass; not so much because I have no idea how to do it, but because the scene files are invariably so dense as to make them unmanageable. So it's a lot of very time consuming trial and error (playblasts take a half hour for 60 frames!).

I've also worked on shots 10 and 11:

Shot 10 playblast: http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot10.avi

Shot 10 lighting:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot10test.jpg


Shot 11 playblast: http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot11.avi

Shot 11 lighting:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot11test.jpg

Always looking for C & C.

Forgot to mention, ED's walk ends a little funny in shot 11, because I'm planning to cut away about 15-20 frames before it finishes

hURT
10-11-2004, 09:34 AM
Kgkraeer,

Excellent work!! I can't wait to see the final overall piece. I transitioned into Maya from 3DS Max, loved what Maya is capable of doing. Your work is great inspiration for me!

Keep up the great work! Hope to see more! :D

KevinKraeer
10-11-2004, 04:41 PM
Hey Thanks hURT. I'm going to keep plodding along, eventually it should be about 2min (ends when ED falls down the stairs).

I use Maya and MAX too, but I like Maya a little better also. Everything you see here was modelled and animated with it, and the textures were done in Photoshop.

I rerendered shot 9 last night and will cut it in during the course of this week. And, like I said, I'll likely revisit shots 8 and 9 down the road to enhance them a bit.

MisterE
10-11-2004, 09:56 PM
Hey Kg! Wow, this is turning out spectacular! The shot where ED & Robo are in the same frame together (when Robo stands up) is done phenomenally well. It matches well from what I remember watching 2 weeks ago. The metal shaders in Robo also shine very well in this scene and just looks so cool :)

1. Some things that still bother me: Did you fix his left arm, as he is pushing off of that same arm to stand himself up? It still looks to me like he is slightly punching the ground or that the IK chain has been snapped too hard, rather than simply put his arm there to hold his weight up. IMO, the arm should bend more smoothly and not as snap-fast as I see it. But perhaps this is the way you like it better ;) .

2. You definitely spent some time on Jones' lip movements. It is clearly better than before, and when he says "mistake "the 2nd time, you really nailed it down there. However, to me, it still looks like the lips move too much like a cartoon character rather than a human being. Like, in other words, I think you OVER-exaggerated the lip movements. And in a CG character, it might be good to slightly exaggerate movements, but in this case, it's a wee-bit too much. Perhaps consider toning the fast movements down and at the same upping the motion blue more. Overall, a nice improvement, but still too fast I think

3. I have no problem w/ the first part of the glass shattering. But I guess I can see why you're not completely satisfied, as in the next shot, the glass doesn't have any depth (it's just completely flat, like paper). Other than that, I think the particles are fine. I'm not too keen or good at particles (much less glass shattering) myself, so I think you've done a good job! :thumbsup:

Man, you plan on doing this until ED falls down the stairs? Wow. That's still quite a bit of work to do. How do you plan on doing the textures for when ED holds up his massive machine gun and shoots at Murphy's face? Simply using an animated avi or QT texture sequence I guess.. Render times will be ugly I imagine :D .

Good luck and keep us posted!!! (P.S. Did you see the new Movie Maniacs Robo figure by McFarlane?)

KevinKraeer
10-11-2004, 10:08 PM
Hey Thanks Rocky. I'm definitely going to revisit Jones talking... I agree with what you're saying. Playblast vs. final render can be really deceiving sometimes.

I'm not that worried about Robo pushing himself up, yet. As a perfectionist, I may go back and retouch that at the end (or over the next couple weeks) also. I doesn't stand out to me as really, really bad since ED fills in most of the frame.

I don't blame you for not using glass whenever possible :)....it's a bit of a nightmare. I am not a fan of the jerkiness and lack of control a dense scene file gives you.

As for your last question, the muzzle flash will be done in Photoshop, and the bullet holes in the wall will likely be done by keyframing the visibility on three versions of the wall, one with one hole, a second with two, and a third with 3 holes. That's the plan anyway; who knows how it will shape up.

There's a lot to go, but the good news is I've been keeping up with the renders, and when there's no glass involved I average about 2 shots a weekend (usually 3). So hopefully by Christmas time it'll be a wrap.

Thanks again for checkin it out dude!

MisterE
10-11-2004, 10:20 PM
As for your last question, the muzzle flash will be done in Photoshop, and the bullet holes in the wall will likely be done by keyframing the visibility on three versions of the wall, one with one hole, a second with two, and a third with 3 holes. That's the plan anyway; who knows how it will shape up.That's interesting. I see what you mean. Though, I meant how do you plan to do the textures for ROBOCOP, himself, as he is getting beat up? Obviously in your avatar you already have a texture for that, but will it be an animated, transition-type texture you'll be using for this aniamtion?

There's a lot to go, but the good news is I've been keeping up with the renders, and when there's no glass involved I average about 2 shots a weekend (usually 3). So hopefully by Christmas time it'll be a wrap.

Thanks again for checkin it out dude!
It will be a very merry X-mas, indeed!

KevinKraeer
10-11-2004, 10:24 PM
The texture for "Beat up Robo" is done, pending C & C. You'll get a good look at it next weekend, when he is getting up and his armor is all steamy and stuff.

MisterE
10-12-2004, 02:07 AM
The texture for "Beat up Robo" is done, pending C & C. You'll get a good look at it next weekend, when he is getting up and his armor is all steamy and stuff.
Whoa, so it is all done then?! Awesome! ::Cheers!:: :buttrock:

ufotung
10-16-2004, 08:51 AM
cool models , cool animation ~
waiting to see more ~

KevinKraeer
10-18-2004, 06:26 AM
Robo updates. I worked a little more with Jones... Still not sure about it though. Why....why is "erase that mistake" such a hard bit of speech to animate?

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/finalTest.mov

Also worked on Shots 12 and 13:

Shot 12 playblast:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot12.avi

Shot 12 lighting:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot12lighting.jpg

Shot 13 playblast:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot13.avi

Shot 13 lighting:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot13lighting.jpg

C & C always welcome.

Texamosix
10-18-2004, 07:49 AM
I think Robocop looks a little too stiff Shot 12... even for a robot. I think he should anticipate with his head a little more while rolling over.

No crits for Shot 13. The sense of weight is magnificent. Keep it coming!

KevinKraeer
10-18-2004, 04:51 PM
I see what you mean, Texamosix. It's a little jerky/unrealistic. I'll revisit that shot and smooth out the motion a bit.

Glad you're digging ED. He is a really fun character to do!

MisterE
10-18-2004, 07:23 PM
Heeey KG! Always nice to see more updates :) . I love the still shot of Battle Damaged Robo laying on the floor. Looks awesome!One crit:
1. Very minor. In shot 12, as Tex said, Robo moves a bit stiff when he is getting up. More specifically, when he puts his left arm down to compose himself and to stand up, his head looks like it's on a stick. As soon as his forearm slams towards the ground, there should be secondary movement in his neck from the jolt of hitting the ground (even though it's brief and not too hard of a slam). Instead, his neck is completely stiff and doesn't move at all. Just loosen it up a bit and I think it'll look great.

Nothing to [edit, misspelled] crit really in shot 13. Looking good though!

KevinKraeer
10-18-2004, 07:39 PM
Thanks Rocky. Definitely gonna revisit #12. I'm going to try to accelerate a little now, which is to say, work during the weeknights as well. It's been tough lately because I've been pulling 12-14 hour days (!) at work. But I think it's levelling off now, so I'll see about posting an update to 12 tonight.

Did you see what I did with Jones in shot 4? Not sure how it looks. Also, in that final piece, let me know what you think about the cut-away back to Jones after Robo flies through the window. It kind of sticks out as odd to me. But I might just be looking at this thing too much.

MisterE
10-18-2004, 11:08 PM
Did you see what I did with Jones in shot 4? Not sure how it looks.
Yeah, sorry I forgot to mention, it definitely looks a LOT better. It's nearly there. I'd say if nobody else has anything to add and, moreover, if you're happy w/ it: cool. Though, I still would like to see Jones' eyes follow ED as he is walking past. I enlarged the QT frame just to be sure, and they're still static.

Also, in that final piece, let me know what you think about the cut-away back to Jones after Robo flies through the window. It kind of sticks out as odd to me. But I might just be looking at this thing too much.
I did notice this before, but didn't want to add anything because I didn't think it would be fair to point out it does look a bit odd because I hadn't watched the scene on DVD in 3 weeks (when I last critiqued another portion of your animation). But, yeah, watching it on DVD again, I can say it definitely looks strange. I think think the problem lies in the fact that, he looks kind of...how shall I say...VERY, VERY, VERY happy. In the movie, he just kind of has a smirk on his face saying that he's "satisfied" w/ the performance of ED-209 in beating Robocop. It's not as if he's celebrating, just "it's about time my million dollar program is working." Also, tone down the overall movement of Jones to lessen his "happniess" :D .

Otherwise, everything is turning out fantastic!

Jeroen
10-22-2004, 09:54 AM
h man, it really looks great. Only the glass can be better I think.
But the models and animation :thumbsup:

Visioneer
10-22-2004, 01:00 PM
Nothing short of impressive. I can't wait to see completion. How far are you going to take the scene?

Jeroen
10-22-2004, 01:20 PM
If you really want to overdone yourself you should make the scene from a different movie where Robocop is flying out of the building after the fight with the ninja.

KevinKraeer
10-22-2004, 04:54 PM
Hey Jeroen, thanks for checking it out. I agree about the glass; it's weak. In the interest of forging ahead though, I've set it aside and will revisit at the end. Otherwise I'd still be working on just those two shots. Heh, RoboCop with the jetpack was a cool concept, but the other two movies never really caught on with me. The Cain robot is cool though.

Visioneer, I'm planning to go all the way to where ED falls down the stairs. I'm still planning to be done by Christmas. But who's to say.

Thanks for checking it out!

hURT
10-25-2004, 09:47 AM
kgkraeer, EXCELLENT STUFF! Love the latest update, learning alot from your progress! Wish I can say the same with me when I do a project...

Keep up with the updates, hoping to see more on how you progressed on! :)

KevinKraeer
10-26-2004, 02:03 AM
Hey hURT, glad you're diggin it. Right now I'm in the midst of several pretty quick shots...so I'm going to hold off on updates until I can string them into sequence (next weekend).

Rendering RoboCop with steam coming off of him has been very time consuming, and lately when my scene files get too dense, Maya just vanishes suddenly. So I've had to backtrack and re-do some stuff, but not much. Currently, ED-209 is mashing RoboCop right in the grill.

I'll post stuff as soon as it's presentable. I may be able to post some playblasts later, but because each is so short they sort of look nonsensical.

KevinKraeer
10-27-2004, 06:15 AM
Updates. I've strung together the latest shots, which would have been only mildy interesting by themselves:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/test10_26_04.mov

Lighting samples....shot 14:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot14.jpg

Shot 15:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot15.jpg

Shot 16:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot16.jpg

Let me know if anything looks wonky!

izarpicture
10-27-2004, 07:10 AM
hey this is good animation
for now i 'm sure it will be great with a better assembly of the scenes
use more different view to make action and speed
but above all , your animation is very good and this is the most important

keep working this is quite promising!!:thumbsup:

bye
and excuse my bad english

smack monkey
10-27-2004, 07:45 AM
All in all this is looking great. Go Ed Go! In the very last shot where ED smacks Robocop the contact isn't quite convincing. It looks like he doesn' t quite touch or just catches him with very tip of his . . . er apendage? limb? weapon? I don't know what to call it. Any why the strike could be a little deeperto really sell the big smack. No need to wory about actors getting hurt in the 3D world so Lay Down The Smack Down! A small nit picky point but animation is all about weight. Keep up the great work. I can't wait to see more.

Chris_Static
10-27-2004, 08:32 AM
Wow, that's fantastic, Ed209 is very well animated. How long has this all taken you so far?

jussing
10-27-2004, 09:16 AM
Hey,

I really like his damaged texture after he's been shot up. That really helps sell the story.

Cheers,
- Jonas

MisterE
10-27-2004, 02:39 PM
Hey Kraeer! The update looks very good. Here are some crit's to help you along:
1) In shot 14, when Robo stands up w/ the smoke, in the 3rd to last frame of that scene, the smoke pops. If you watch it frame by frame, you'll notice there is a seemingly random burst of smoke that pops in and then out of the frame.
2) Shot 15 is too long. It seems like we are waiting too long for ED to pull his arm up to punch Robo.
3) As smackmonkey has poinited out, when ED finally does hit Robo, it isn't very convincing. The reason for that is because ED literally does not contact/hit Robo.
No need to wory about actors getting hurt in the 3D world so Lay Down The Smack Down! :scream: LOL! Indeed. Let ED knock the crap out of Robo.
Or you could simply try rendering out the animation at like 8fps to fake the hit like they do in Hollywood.

Otherwise, I love the battle damage combined w/ the metal shader you created. It has certainly come a long way since I critiqued your WIP model. :applause:

KevinKraeer
10-27-2004, 04:57 PM
Thanks, friends.

izarpicture, I agree that there are some rhythms that appear to be a bit off. One shot in particular that bothers me is when ED lowers his arm. There's something about his hip that doesn't feel quite right...and in the movie, ED seems as if he's walking in from further away, about to crush the camera. I think if I fix that and adjust how long some of the other shots are it'll look dope.

smack monkey, I agree. I'll have to revisit that shot and re-render, which doesn't take long because it's 13 frames :). Oddly enough, the two bots are in the same Maya scene there, no compositing. The problem I was having was inter-polygon collisions where ED's guns would go into Robo's face during the hit.

Chris_Static, thanks for the kind words...so far, this has taken me the better part of every weekend since April or so. I modelled Robo in the spring but didn't decide to do this sequence until May, when I went forward and built ED. I worked on Dick Jones and the office space I think until Mid-Late July, then spent a couple weeks riggins everybody and tweaking the transforms and stuff.

Thanks for keeping up with this jussing! I appreciate that feedback, as I spent some time looking at a paused DVD and then looking back at PS to paint the scratches, burns, and bulletholes. Then it was bump mapped to make it 'pop'.

Rocky, thanks for your help with this. I just noticed that smoke pop, which is one of those crazy Maya things that I can't explain. I deleted and disabled particle caching for those steam particles, so I can't imagine where the pop is coming from. I'll fix it.

I'm not sure I agree about shot 15. I'll take another look at the DVD, but I've been really careful to make sure that these shots are all the right length....the editing in this part of the fight, as you can tell, is really, really, tight. It could be, though, that I cut some frames from an earlier sequence and have inadvertently allowed extra frames from shot 15 to bleed forward, creating a longer shot. It might all be in After FX.

Thanks everyone for checking it out. I'll make these fixes as soon as I have more time.

I'll also adjust Jones' reaction shot, so he looks more like he's pleased with his robot instead of like he's about to get laid.

MisterE
10-27-2004, 09:01 PM
I'm not sure I agree about shot 15. I'll take another look at the DVD, but I've been really careful to make sure that these shots are all the right length....

You may very well be correct about the length of time ED is holding his arm down from the movie. However, if that's the case, you can blame it on the editor and/or Paul Verhoeven :) . In the previous shot, we already saw him pulling his arm back ready to punch Robo, so it's a bit unnecessary to show him continue to hold his arm down for that amount of time here. It's a minor nitpick, so take what I said w/ a grain of salt :shrug: .


I'll also adjust Jones' reaction shot, so he looks more like he's pleased with his robot instead of like he's about to get laid.

ROFL! :D Good luck w/ everything!

KevinKraeer
10-29-2004, 05:31 AM
More updates. I incorporated everyones suggestions into this sequence.

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/test10_28_04.mov

- The shot where ED-209 lowers his arm is more accurate to the movie, and I think looks much better.
- I made ED really bank Robo right in the grill this time. His head jerks back pretty violently.
- Fixed the particle pop, in a manner of speaking. It's kind of a band-aid, I may need to rerender because I have to add keys to continue the movement realistically.

Let me know what you think!

Dave Anderson
10-29-2004, 10:30 AM
Fantastic stuff here , like ususal . The batle damaged version of Robo is wery amazing 2
I specialy like the smoke effect when robocop gets up after taking those shots , the smoke gives it a wery realistic feeling , awesome job so far ! :thumbsup:

MisterE
10-29-2004, 04:04 PM
Nice fixes! The smoke looks better as there's no pop. The head jerk makes the hit look more convincing.

KevinKraeer
11-01-2004, 04:40 AM
Added a couple more quick shots. I've added them to the latest sequence:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/test10_31_04.mov

I also fixed Jones' lip synch. I think he finally looks right, let me know though...also changed his reaction after Robo gets thrown through the doors, but I'm still not sure about it. The full piece can be downloaded here:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/finalTest.mov

here are quick images of the latest shots:

Shot 17:
http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot17.jpg

Shot 18:
http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot18.jpg

I added a watermark recently...let me know if it's too intrusive. It's only temporary until the piece is finished.

C & C welcome as always...

jampoz
11-01-2004, 11:48 AM
Amazing, truly amazing, I'm speechless expecially 'cause it's a ONE man job!

I love everything, don't have any chance to watch Robocop right now so I can't place any crit about it, but still there are a few little details I wanted to discuss with you

First, right when the ED walks past Dick, the cam stay a bit too much on Dick head, should be moving onto action right after the ED gets off the screen, 'cause for a little time we get the empty screen with Dick head (lol...) on the bottom of the screen, it's kinda wrong... is the movie like that too?

Then, glass shattering, I know you don't like this subject 'cause I had a chance to read all your posts (can't say the same about other peoples posts but trying to do that 'cause THIS thread is outstanding and I wanna do my best to join the discussion)
So, yeah, glass shattering... well it bounces, I'm not sure shattering glass does bounce like that...

Last, Robo arms, expecially the inner side, right under torso attachment, maybe I'm wrong but even on final renders they are still plain grey and if they are it should be wrong


Before closing the post, man, amazing work you've done here, I'm truly impressed, truly, will be following it as much as I can, I'm just sorry for the low poly decision but you still get Maya problems this way, would have been impossible to do an high poly version so amen to that!

Keep up the wonderful work, yo! :bowdown:

MisterE
11-01-2004, 03:22 PM
Hello once again! In regards to the new updates:
1) I just noticed this now, but when Robo stands up right before being hit, in shot 14 I believe (0:36), there are 3 (or 4, depending on when you want to cut the scene) held frames before the next scene change-over that breaks up the action.
2) Jones looks a LOT better when speaking. It looks a lot less exaggerated, but now it looks more convincing. He also looks a helluva lot better when seeing ED kick the crap out of Robo.

Other than that, everything is great, as usual :)

KevinKraeer
11-01-2004, 04:52 PM
jampoz - Thanks man! I appreciate the positive feedback. As far as the details you mentioned, the cam does actually linger on Jones for a moment there on the DVD. Part of my problem is I'm attempting to make Jones look at ED during these frames, and he does, but it's not apparent. I'll see what I can do.

I agree with what you've said about the glass. I've decided that's just a placeholder for now. I think the timing for the two shots is OK, but I'm going to go back into them at the end and replace the bad glass with the good stuff.

I'm not sure which part of the arms you mean, as far as being just plain grey. One thing I've noticed since starting this thing is that Robo's shoulder joints, where the arm and the black undersuit meet, are not quite right. Is that what you're referring to?

Rocky - Thanks for checking it out dude. I think what I'm gonna do with that shot with the held frames is do a 'time-stretch' in After FX. The result should be perfect.

Glad Jones looks better too. God knows that was more difficult than I thought it would be. Cripes, I got a 2 ton robot walking on hydraulic rams, a guy in a metal suit, and a human....and the human gives me the most trouble.

Thanks everyone for checking it out.

MisterE
11-01-2004, 07:21 PM
Glad Jones looks better too. God knows that was more difficult than I thought it would be. Cripes, I got a 2 ton robot walking on hydraulic rams, a guy in a metal suit, and a human....and the human gives me the most trouble.

Thanks everyone for checking it out.
ROFL! What's funny is, I've been contemplating recently on why it's so hard to make realistic human characters in the computer (whether it be animating, modeling, and/or texturing). I've come to the conclusion that it's so hard because we have so MANY (on multiple and varying degrees) "imperfections" and we try to replicate this on a machine that is otherwise built on doing things calculated through algorithms and read/interrupted by 1's and 0's. Of course, life is not so mathematically "perfect," and that's why it's tough to replicate human characteristics into a CG character because we're trying to do this ourselves on a machine built knowing only those 1's and 0's. :D

KevinKraeer
11-15-2004, 05:20 AM
RoboCop rages on. Even though he's being thrown through a glass dealie:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot20.mov

I think it came out much better than the earlier glass shots; I implemented a new technique that uses randomly instanced particles instead of 'active rigid bodies'. Here it is with the rest of the sequence (apologies for a goofy blurred bit of glass at the end):

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/test11_12_04.mov

A quick still from shot 19:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot19particlesD20.JPG

The next shot is ED's feet walking by and Jones walking triumphantly in the BG. I still have to do the debris on the floor, and smoke surrounding Jones in the office, but here's what I've got so far (beginning/end):

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot20a.jpg

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot20b.jpg

Here's a couple playblasts for shot 20. The first one is the full composite with both characters:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot20.avi

This second one is just Jones; I'm pretty happy with ED but I spent the better part of Sunday afternoon tweaking Jones' walk, so it would look less like a 'homosexual march' and more a 'triumphant stroll':

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot20justJones.avi

Still not sure about lighting on that one just yet, either. At any rate, off to work for yet another week.

C & C always appreciated.

jussing
11-15-2004, 08:10 AM
Yay, that landing shot is really cool! Best shot so far, animation wise. His bumping around, whipping the head -- all the secondary animation -- you nailed that. :thumbsup:

And the glass is also great. -And that blurred glass that fills the whole frame in the end looks like it's intentional - Hollywood always throws CG stuff right into the camera. :)

The shot before -- is he really flying that slow in the movie?

Cheers,
- Jonas

KevinKraeer
11-15-2004, 05:10 PM
Hey thanks jussing. I *think* that's how fast he hits in the movie, I'll have to double check and make sure.

I'm actually counting frames for some of these short shots just to be sure I got the timing right.

Thanks for checking it out!

MisterE
11-16-2004, 01:25 AM
Ohh man, another update! Sweet! As jussing says, I love the new falling through the glass shot. I think both the glass and Robo especially look very convincing (proportions, likeness, metal shader, and the animation). I also like how you cut out those 3 held frames when he stood up :) . However, I noticed a similar problem when he gets thrown through the glass in the new update. In the "test.mov" file, watch it again frame-by-frame and you'll notice there is another held frame before the next cut as he is about to go through. It isn't that big a deal, but I noticed it immediately and it looks a bit weird. :shrug: .

Cheers on a hard - but very excellent - update! :beer:

KevinKraeer
11-16-2004, 01:30 AM
Sweet, thanks dude. Will definitely go back and look at that previous shot.

I think that new glass technique will work well. I'd like to give a shout out to NEMIRC. He's got a buddy jesus avatar. It was one of his posts about a glass shatter in the Maya Dynamics forum that set me in the right direction.

I'll likely go back to the glass doors and do the same thing there.

Whoa, just watched it again. What the hell...didn't notice that frame at all. The motion blur goes away too.

KevinKraeer
11-16-2004, 05:45 AM
Had time tonight to fix up that errant frame. I also put that last shot into the whole sequence (4 MB download):

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/finalTest.mov

Thanks to all who voted with the little star dealie!

I just watched it again. There may be one more 'extra' frame before he hits the glass thing. Why I never notice this stuff before I post is a mystery.

MisterE
11-18-2004, 03:02 AM
Looks a lot better now just by that one little cut. But the very next shot, there is a held frame once again. What do you use to cut together your sequences? Do you use After Effects? If you use Premiere instead, you can scroll through your clips and you'll notice errors more clearly.

KevinKraeer
11-29-2004, 05:08 PM
New stuff!

I hit a snag last week. I bought Half Life 2, so all production on all projects ceased for a few days. Including eating and showering. But I'm back on track once again.

Here's the latest:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/test11_28_04.mov

I'm at work, so I can't post screenshots of each shot. But I'll do that tonight.

Let me know what you think, I know it might be a little hard because they're all 1-2 second shots. But any input that will help get the motion just right would be much appreciated.

Looks a lot better now just by that one little cut. But the very next shot, there is a held frame once again. What do you use to cut together your sequences? Do you use After Effects? If you use Premiere instead, you can scroll through your clips and you'll notice errors more clearly.
Thanks Rocky. Yes, I am using After FX. I'm so much more used to it now though, that I don't want to switch...I also have a growing project file, where I add clips as I finish. I just have to work a little more carefully.

MisterE
11-29-2004, 09:04 PM
The render quality, in my eyes, seem a lot better than what you previously had. Did you adjust Maya's renderer or any textures? Otherwise, the only problem I see is the last shot, where Robo twitches his head sideways, looks very odd. I don't have the Robocop DVD in front of me so it's hard to compare to the movie itself. But something about the twitching in his movement looks strange.

Also, I just noticed this as of typing this sentence, but there's a continuity issue going on here. The very last shot, you see Murphy's eye through a bullet hole in his visor. However, in the previous shot featuring Robocop (looking at the now up-in-your-face-ED), there is no hole in his visor and thus, cannot see his eye, even though nothing happened between the two shots.

KevinKraeer
11-29-2004, 09:13 PM
Hey thanks man.

I didn't tweak much of anything in the renderer. I am spending a lot more time with my lighting though. I'm also spot-tweaking the shaders, for example...in some shots, from the movie, ED appears to have a matte finish; but then in others there is a sort of car-paint specular (especially close-ups). I'm trying to approximate those changes in each shot.

I figured out that aside from animation, the lighting hangs me up more than anything. It's become steadily more difficult (especially with both 'combatants' in the frame) because each character, and then the office, have separate lighting setups, cast shadows, etc.

I'll revisit the head twitch in the last shot. Also, the more I watch the latest clip, the more ED's first step with his left foot bothers me. It's not quite as fluid as it should be.

As far as the visor, I watched the movie very closely for how his eye is 'revealed'. The hole is, in fact, there in the shot where he first looks up. There's a plane with a black transparent shader over his eye though, because in the movie his eye is not quite visible there. I think I may need to make the eye 'covering' more transparent in that shot for a more gradual transition to the full reveal of the eye in the next shot.

Thanks again for checking it out!

jussing
11-29-2004, 10:03 PM
I hit a snag last week. I bought Half Life 2Bwaha! A friend of mine who just bought it (and completed it in a straight 18 hour sitting) offered to borrow it to me, but I said HECK NO, gotta finish my projects first, or I won't get anything done! :D

...downloading your new stuff now...

Cheers,
- Jonas

Jeroen
11-29-2004, 10:14 PM
h mate, wanne let you now I am still watching.

Looks great,

KevinKraeer
11-29-2004, 10:18 PM
Thanks, friends. I know this is a long one to keep up with. The initial post was September 5th!

I promise that it will be finished, and it will be worth it!

hURT
11-30-2004, 06:33 AM
Well, Kgkraeer it is indeed great to follow how you work and progress on this scene! I follow this post closely since it is a really good learning experiance for me.

Great job as always. Keep it up and hope to see more updates! Can't wait to see the whole scene finished. :)

KevinKraeer
12-06-2004, 06:23 AM
Thanks hURT! Sorry for the late reply. I've been busy, finally making RoboCop stick up for himself.

Here's the test composite of the latest 4 or 5 shots:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/test12_05_04.mov

And here are some of the latest stills:

Shot 25:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot25.jpg

Shot 26:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot26.jpg

Shot 27:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot27.jpg

Haven't finished with the pyro effects for ED's arm. I'm still debating between attempting some crazy particle system action or paint the explosion by hand. If you guys have any ideas for realistic/efficient explosion effects, I am all ears.

Also, I noticed some weird blue appearing in the scene, and realized it's because I have to make the keyframe interpolation on the dynamic lights linear instead of spline. So these are due for a re-render regardless.

Let me know what you think!

hURT
12-06-2004, 08:41 AM
Heya Kgkraeer,

Excellent update!! Good to hear your still up and running on this scene. Half-life 2 was excellent, by the way. :)

I was wondering how you were able to create bullethole decals appear on the textures as Ed209 is blasting away. Is that done in Maya or done using compositing software? Would be nice to see a little particle emittions as the decals appear. But then again, this is just an update! :)

Also, noticed that ED209 blew his arm away, was the visiblity just keyframe on that? Not sure what route you'd take as painted effects or particles...

Again, great update! Just love the action and expression going on with Robocop!

jussing
12-06-2004, 10:50 AM
Great, I think there's a good interaction between the two. It really feels like he's pushing something heavy.

Super!

- Jonas

hURT
12-06-2004, 11:24 AM
Yup, I agree. The way robocop grits his teeth and the way he pushes ED209's gun shows really great interaction and weight. Really great stuff!

KevinKraeer
12-06-2004, 04:47 PM
Thanks friends. hURT, the bulletholes were done by keyframing visibility. Same thing for ED's left arm. For the bullets, I made a cylinder, deleted all but the top 'cap', and planar mapped a gray gradient lambert with self illumination (they were too dark at first). Then pulled points to randomize the shapes.

The left arm actually is a mistake. If you watch frame by frame, it actually disappears completely once, which is wrong. I've fixed it, and I'm planning to set up some re-renders this week.

Thanks for the kind words jussing!

MisterE
12-06-2004, 07:51 PM
LOL cool update. Robo looks awesome here. No crit's other than the head twitch at the beginning...did you adjust this yet? In any event, it looks like there's too much secondary animation (if you can call it that here). For instance, when he twists his head, you notice there's the little head bobbing movement going on. I think it's done a little too much here. I revisited the Criterion DVD (Do you have the Criterion DVD version? Or the newer MGM one?) and found that the second part of the head turn is a lot less harsh in terms of overall movement and "secondary" head bobbing. I would say: don't rotate the head too much, and lessen the head stutter.

Metal shader, clenching teeth, and bullet holes own all! Good job.

KevinKraeer
12-06-2004, 08:36 PM
Hey thanks Rocky!

I'll take another look at the DVD. I did a 'time stretch' on that shot in AfterFX but it clearly wasn't enough.

hURT, forgot to mention - I am going to add some little puffs to the wall getting blown away.

Thanks everyone for checking it out!

hURT
12-07-2004, 09:37 AM
Kgkraeer,

Cool, can't wait to see the latest updates, keep at it! :)

KevinKraeer
12-20-2004, 04:49 AM
Update! Added and refined the explosion:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/test12_19_04.mov

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/test12_19_04a.JPG

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/test12_19_04b.JPG

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/test12_19_04c.JPG

Let me know what you think!

jussing
12-20-2004, 10:25 AM
The explosion effect is super :thumbsup:, and I like the animation, except... a weight and balance thing: when the ED-209 gets back up, after almost toppling backwards, it looks like it's being pulled up by a bungee or something.

(it's the movement that start at 4:10 and ends at 4:15)

Cheers,
- Jonas

Bleen
12-20-2004, 03:12 PM
Ehrm... just... amazing work O.o;
The only thing I don't fully like is the mid-poly modeling... it's like a polycount limbo :-P
Don't get me wrong, the modeling is great, but it'd be even better if is was more detailed... you're rendering everything afterall right? why not go for more detail? :-) Sometimes it looks like models for a game, sometimes it looks like hi-poly... just that... I really liked the animation!!! :-)

KevinKraeer
12-20-2004, 04:54 PM
The explosion effect is super :thumbsup:, and I like the animation, except... a weight and balance thing: when the ED-209 gets back up, after almost toppling backwards, it looks like it's being pulled up by a bungee or something.

(it's the movement that start at 4:10 and ends at 4:15)

Cheers,
- Jonas
Hey thanks man. That movement is actually more based on what I saw in the movie than anything...if it were up to me, with no movie, I wouldn't have him snap back. Or he wouldn't snap back as quickly. It's weird, though, in the movie, he topples back and forth pretty close to what's in the animation. Maybe I can smooth it out a bit?

Ehrm... just... amazing work O.o;
The only thing I don't fully like is the mid-poly modeling... it's like a polycount limbo :-P
Don't get me wrong, the modeling is great, but it'd be even better if is was more detailed... you're rendering everything afterall right? why not go for more detail? :-) Sometimes it looks like models for a game, sometimes it looks like hi-poly... just that... I really liked the animation!!! :-)
Thanks Bleen. It's funny that you mention that, that is actually something that I worked through in some other threads (about just RoboCop and ED-209, specifically). What happened in the end was, I refined and added some detail to even more low-poly versions of the models to wind up with what's imaged here. It's a style that I seem to be 'trapped' in; I'm actually been working towards a job in game development for years and, consequently, I always steer towards low-poly with my models.

I gambled that the animation/performance and special fx would be more than enough to offset the models....hopefully they're not too glaring?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And so, we come to the end of the year. My optimistic plans for having this done by Christmas were just not to be. I'm about halfway there, and it's been four months worth of weekends. Just for the animation.

I'm going to be travelling this week, I'll be back next Wednesday. At that point, I need to work on some animation samples for a friend who works with a game dev. company....in the hopes of finally getting that dream job early next year!

In other words, Robo is going to go on the back burner for a couple weeks. I need the break, for sure.

I will definitely finish this piece though. I've put too much work into it to 'drop' it.

Thanks to everyone for all your comments and support, and have a great holiday and happy new year!

MisterE
12-20-2004, 05:42 PM
Hey Kg! The new f/x look amazing! No crit's at all! Enjoy your break. You deserve it!

jussing
12-20-2004, 07:43 PM
Hey thanks man. That movement is actually more based on what I saw in the movie than anything...if it were up to me, with no movie, I wouldn't have him snap back. Or he wouldn't snap back as quickly. It's weird, though, in the movie, he topples back and forth pretty close to what's in the animation. Maybe I can smooth it out a bit? Hm, funny. I've only seen the movie once, a long time ago, but I do remember the stop-motion as being not quite perfect, so in a way I think you do better than the original. :)

What I would do - but I don't know if the robot anatomy allows that (and, I don't have your animation experience either) - is to let the lower part of his body do the movement first, and then let his upper part follow...

(just a suggestion, have no clue if it would work :D)

Cheers,
- Jonas

KevinKraeer
12-20-2004, 08:17 PM
Hey thanks, Jonas. That might work; definitely something to try.

Hey rocky, thanks for checking it out! I still have to fix that head turn/zoom in shot though :). It's on my list.

KevinKraeer
02-01-2005, 06:13 AM
RoboCop lives...well, he crawls aways while ED gyrates violently:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/test1_31_05.mov

Here are the lighting tests:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot28c10.jpg


http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot29a-5.jpg

Two things I've already noticed and plan to fix are in shot 28; I think the smoke gets too thick in the middle of the clip, and at the end things go turqoise, then pink. I've fixed both and set up for a re-render tonight.

Let me know what you think of everything else!

deadline
02-03-2005, 09:43 AM
join the club... or more the other way around for me... i am making Cain from Robocop 2 right now...

actually almost done.. mine is a little more detailed though.. i about to start rigging and ANIMATING!! :thumbsup: :bounce:

deadline
02-03-2005, 09:49 AM
we could colab...

MisterE
02-03-2005, 11:28 PM
Hey Kevin! I think the smoke looks fine. Glad you're back w/ the project! Keep up the work.

KevinKraeer
02-25-2005, 03:28 AM
Thanks friends!

Hey deadline, I appreciate the offer, but I'm probably gonna take a bit of a break after this project. It's been a really long road so far, and I've still got a ways to go. There are other original projects I want to do once I have this under my belt.

I have made some updates and additions:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/test022405.mov

Here are the lighting tests:

Shot 30-

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot30m5.jpg

Shot 31-

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot31b45.jpg

Shot 32-

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot32d53.jpg

Shot 33-

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot33a15.jpg

Shot 34-

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot34b39.jpg

Shot 35-

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot35a15.jpg

Shot 36-

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot36b21.jpg

Let me know what you think!

MisterE
02-25-2005, 04:26 AM
Wow! Everything looks great! Only one crit:
* The Jones turn-around to run to the phone. It (the turn itself, not the run) looks too fast, and his left arm appears very stiff during the turn. Just needs more movement and fluid motion.

The movements of Robocop getting up and also turning around look really well done, it looks almost EXACTLY like from the movie! And also, the particle f/x (the sparks coming out after the missile launches) totally ROCK! Did you do any post in After Effects? Or straight out of Maya?

KevinKraeer
02-25-2005, 04:31 AM
Hey thanks Rocky!

I think I agree about shot 30. I'll work on Jones this weekend.

The sparks and stuff were all done in Maya. I used a particle system - instanced Geometry with an incandescent lambert shader (+ glow).

Thanks for checking it out!

Jeroen
02-26-2005, 12:38 PM
The way he walks to his desk, really good :thumbsup:

But if I am honest, I think that the robot shakes to much, but for the rest, the smoke effects, very good.

KevinKraeer
04-09-2005, 04:10 AM
Hey everybody. Much like the crews of English workers that created the Chunnel, I am slowly plodding forward, hoping to crack through that wall and shake hands with a weary Frenchman through a four foot whole in the seabed. I'm also hoping to finish this piece by summer. Here are the latest stills:

Shot 37:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot37g11.jpg

Shot 38:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot38f21.jpg

Shot 39:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot39b50.jpg

Shot 40:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot40a40.jpg

Shot 41:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot41b28.jpg

Shot 42:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot42a12.jpg

I've got to run off another test for this section of animation, so I will post the clip here in an edit in a bit.

Critique is always appreciated!

EDIT: Here are the movie links with the latest -----------------------------------------

The last several shots (.9 MB): http://www.kraeeranimation.com/test040805.mov

The full composite, from the beginning, including everything up to this point (7.8 MB): http://www.kraeeranimation.com/finalTest.mov

Feeank
04-09-2005, 06:32 AM
Wow Kevin, I gotta confess that after seeing the movie four times in 4 days in a row when I was a kid, I started walking like Robocop and didn't stop for 6 months at least, so this thread has been such an incredible surprise, I bow before your skill and more importantly before your commitment and dedication to such an obvious labor of love, I'm utterly impressed. I also tried to model ED-209 as a practice project when I first started with Maya 3 years ago but I could never find decent references to do it, so I guess I also feel encouraged by your project to do my personal walking and butt-kicking ED. Congratulations, I'll keep checking it out from now on:thumbsup:

KevinKraeer
04-09-2005, 06:45 AM
Hey thanks Feeank. Heh, the movie obviously had the same impression on you as it did on me. It was a staple of my junior high experience.

Hope you stay with it, it is very slow going lately, as I've had a number of other things come up. I can guarantee you that I will definitely finish it though. I am going to go all the way to ED falling down the stairs.

For reference, try http://www.robocoparchive.com. If you're a RoboCop fan, it deserves a bookmark...and the research mats and blueprints are great for 3D stuff.

MisterE
04-10-2005, 04:52 AM
This is getting harder and harder to crit. You're really coming along nicely. Only thing TO critique is when ED's missile hits the wall and Robo is running while crouching to safety. I think he is running way too fast. It looks like he has too much energy, like a kid, when fleeing. It does not, in other words, look like he is a robot fleeing from the attack. The movement needs more weight.

KevinKraeer
04-10-2005, 05:48 AM
Hey thanks Rocky. Yeah, what I was going for in that shot was a lead-in to the fall in the next shot, like he's losing balance. Maybe I could have him lean to the left, towards the opposite wall? I actually like the buildup in speed, like he's gaining unwanted momentum.

One of the reasons I am smoothing some of these motions out and going for a more human look is because it's what I've noticed at this point in the movie...he's not restricted to those stiff robotic turns so much from this point forward. I like to think that when Verhoeven reveals the eyeball, that's when some of the movements become less robotic and more man-like. Consider his fall down two levels of the parking garage, and the way he gets up. When he goes down the stairs, too, later in this piece, he moves more smoothly, like a guy rather than a bot. The duality of his new existence becomes more apparent in the way he moves.

Anyway, that's just my mega-nerd vision of what's going on there, having watched the movie two or three hundred million times. I hope that made sense.

I'll revisit that shot and post an update as soon as it's ready.

KevinKraeer
04-14-2005, 04:33 PM
Some updates. I've finished a couple more shots, and have been working on the timing to the audio in After Effects. Strangely, I have found myself about 5-10 frames out of sync ever since RoboCop blew off ED's arm. I just have not been able to match up my work with the audio without massaging the length of certain clips a little.

Anyway, here's the latest: http://www.kraeeranimation.com/test041305.mov

Shot 43:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot43b10.jpg

Shot 44:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot44b7.jpg

Shot 44 (exploding):

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot44b15.jpg

Shot 45:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot45f15.jpg

I think in Shot 43, Robo needs to exaggerate the arm movement a little more; the arm really needs to swing over his head, instead of simply moving to position.

I also noticed a spot where Robo stops moving, but his head keeps moving.

Critique is always much appreciated!

Jeroen
04-14-2005, 04:43 PM
can't wait to see the whole movie

KevinKraeer
04-14-2005, 04:54 PM
Hey thanks for the quick reply man!

Yes, friend, it has been a long time coming. I appreciate your being there from the beginning...this is without question the biggest personal project and longest running critique I've ever run.

Maybe I could give the guys who were around since day 1 a 'sneak preview' before I submit to Finished Work or something...

Jeroen
04-14-2005, 05:00 PM
yeah, I think thats a good idea, and just a capture movie or something, so we see whats going on, but we won't see the whole thing.



One thing, dont know if it is a good thing but shouldnt the robot have a light back slash on his arm when he launches the rocket. This also makes him less stiff.

mimo8
04-14-2005, 09:14 PM
just came across your thread now and didnt read all the progress, but I like what Im seeing.

good scenes and camera, but the animation esspecially of robocop could be improved.
here my suggestions:


when RC looks back, just befor the first rocket gets launched, he looks a bit -sorry to say - handycapt. dont know what I dislike here specially. Its the combination of looking backward, the stiff robo moves and the same head position over a two steps. what I mean is if he would through his head back quicker and then look frightened it would bring more tension into the scene.


the two explosions should have more impact on his body. specially with the first one it is not very beliveable, because after the cut he is allready rolling on the floor. how is he getting there. I would have him more blasted away, not like he is out of paper, but still showing that there is a big shockwave from the detonation.
same with the second explosion

looking forward to see your progress
http://www.brain-one.at/mmm/bunny.gif

MisterE
04-15-2005, 12:58 AM
Hey Kevin,
Damn nice job thus far. However, I've noticed why Robo looks weird when dodging the first missile.

In your animation, as Robo dodges the oncoming missile, hunched over and running, you cut and when he is coming into the frame, you realize he is FALLING onto the ground sideways. How did he start off running in one scene, then suddenly wind up falling immediately in the next?

When you watch the actual movie, he's not running away. What it appears he's doing is merely turning and then walking to manuever himself out of the way (not running), or at least tries to, but the impact of the blast nearby is strong enough to knock him over. Hence why you see him lift his left leg, but then he falls. But it's important to note he only lifts his left leg once. When I watch your animation, it looks like he's scurrying away too fast (he takes way too many steps), and then suddenly he falls out of the clear blue.

Lastly, and this is minor, when ED fires on him the 2nd time, I see the explosion before I *HEAR* it. It's just a matter of queing up the audio by a couple of frames, or cutting a couple of frames early.

I hope this helps. Let me know how things turn out :thumbsup:

KevinKraeer
04-15-2005, 01:50 AM
when RC looks back, just befor the first rocket gets launched, he looks a bit -sorry to say - handycapt. dont know what I dislike here specially.

the two explosions should have more impact on his body.


Hey thanks mimo8. I agree with your first point, absolutely. That clip has actually been bothering me for some time. I don't know what it is either, I think it's a combination of stiffness, the camera jiggling wrong, and his overall height changing a bit too much to make the steps believable. I'll take a look at it.

As for the second point, that's kind of a point of contention where I'm sticking by what I have, for a couple reasons.

Mainly, ever since RoboCop blew ED's arm off, I've been having lots of trouble keeping my scenes synced up to my very lengthy audio capture for the sequence (1 long wav). Generally, I go through in slow-mo and count frames for shots that are really, really short...it seemed to be the most obvious way to get the correct lengths for each clip. Unfortunately, for some reason it has not been working...the time code between the audio and my renders is somehow not quite right (even though both are supposedly 30 fps). So I end up having to sort of finnagle the overall length of some clips, while leaving others the same - I basically lengthen clips where I feel like I have some breathing room. That first explosion shot is one of the shots I tweaked and added about 8 or 9 frames. So, in other words, making edits to shots that have been tweaked could throw off all of the succeeding shots that I've canned since then.

The other thing is, I have been working on RoboCop related 3D and/or animation every single weekend for 8-10 hours each day for over a year. Don't get me wrong - I love working on this - but there are other things I'd like to do this year, both work related and non-work related. As the piece currently stands, there are only a few areas I can spot that really bother me as 'lacking the same overall quality' that I think really need to be fixed, and holding this thing up next to the movie, I don't feel like the explosions are one of those areas.

I hope you don't think I'm shooting down your suggestion outright, and that I'm making some sort of sense :).


When you watch the actual movie, he's not running away. What it appears he's doing is merely turning and then walking to manuever himself out of the way (not running), or at least tries to, but the impact of the blast nearby is strong enough to knock him over. Hence why you see him lift his left leg, but then he falls. But it's important to note he only lifts his left leg once. When I watch your animation, it looks like he's scurrying away too fast (he takes way too many steps), and then suddenly he falls out of the clear blue.


Thanks for taking another look Rocky. Yeah, as I mentioned above I had to add several frames to that shot in particular to re-sync my work. I'm basically dealing with several chunks of 'frame sequences' in After Effects, and even though I'm counting shot lengths in the movie I'm still using AE's "Time Stretch" more than I'd like to get everything lined up to the audio.

Since you both pointed that out as a potential problem area, it warrants another look for sure. But again, I am hesitant to touch what has become sort of a 'keystone' shot that holds several shots together and in line with the wav file.


Lastly, and this is minor, when ED fires on him the 2nd time, I see the explosion before I *HEAR* it. It's just a matter of queing up the audio by a couple of frames, or cutting a couple of frames early.


I agree with this completely; I thought I fixed it but it is definitely needs more work.

Thanks again to you both for helping me out!

Obraxis
04-15-2005, 11:08 AM
Huge project that looks awesome :) Cant wait to see the final thing.

KevinKraeer
04-22-2005, 04:22 AM
Updates. I attempted to address the shot where Robo looks back, and also tweaked the timing to make sure everything is lining up properly:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/042105.mov

Here are the rendered screenshots...

Shot 46:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot46b9.jpg

Shot 47:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot47b22.jpg

Shot 48:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot48c5.jpg

One thing I realized in that last shot was that the explosion is way too jittery. I'm still working on that. I also have not yet revisited the stumbling shots you guys mentioned.

In the meantime, any feedback on this latest stuff would be much appreciated!

MisterE
04-22-2005, 04:32 AM
I like how you fixed the sound queue problem, it's convincing now. No other crit's b/c everything looks great. Hope you are able to fix that weird "Robo scrambling out of the way" problem.

Cheers!

KevinKraeer
05-04-2005, 05:21 AM
Updates. I have a new freelance client, so I have only been able to work on one more shot over the past couple weeks:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/050305.mov

Shot 49:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot49b37.jpg

Let me know what you think!

EPICI
05-04-2005, 11:55 AM
Hi Kevin Kraeer

GREAT job. I like much your shots. :thumbsup:

EPICI

MisterE
05-04-2005, 09:26 PM
Small update, but looks good! Nothing to crit. Keep up the work. :)

Sinistar83
05-05-2005, 10:27 PM
Wow, I just stumbled up this thread. Great job on recreating a scene from one of my favorite sci-fi movies of the late 80's. Keep up the great work!

Gehof
05-05-2005, 10:58 PM
That is seriously outstanding. As a student right now, I can only hope I get myself a set of skills as impressive. Very, very nice.

KevinKraeer
05-06-2005, 03:13 AM
Thank you all for your encouraging words; slowly but surely we are nearing the end.

So that lip sync at the end of my last update looks good to everybody?

Con Artist
05-06-2005, 03:57 AM
The lip sync looks good! Your whole project is awesome man!

Any chance of you doing the memorable fight scene from part 2? Cain does look bad ass!:buttrock:

"Dead or alive you're coming with me!":scream:
http://robocoparchive.com/wide2/r2_188.jpg

norman365
05-06-2005, 09:39 PM
Hey, nice job so far!

Are you going to make the scene where ED falls down the stairs and starts crying like a baby?

KevinKraeer
05-06-2005, 09:47 PM
Hey guys, thanks for the support!


Any chance of you doing the memorable fight scene from part 2? Cain does look bad ass!:buttrock:



Actually, this animation has taken almost a year's worth of weekends. So, probably not. Not soon anyway. I need a break!



Are you going to make the scene where ED falls down the stairs and starts crying like a baby?



Yes, actually that's going to be the end, it'll fade out after he's banging around on the stairs squealing.

After all the rendering is done, I'm planning to go back into After Effects and enhance some of the explosions, as well as add some subtle 2D sparks and stuff to the rockets (as they're flying). Some of those particle explosions aren't doing it for me...

Anyway, thanks again for the encouragement. Let me know if you see anything wonky.

KevinKraeer
05-10-2005, 06:18 AM
Updates - ED starts forward and pops off a few rounds in Robo's general direction:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/050905.mov

I'm down to about one shot a week now, because I took on a freelance web client for some extra ducketts. Last weekend is the last of that project, and then I can focus on finishing this piece, hopefully by June.

I started building the stairs for the last shots, though it's not worth showing yet; the proportions and even the number of steps is off I think. If anyone has any shots of that staircase off the hallway, they would be a huge help.

Shot 50:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot50d41.jpg

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot50d40.jpg


THanks for checking it out!

norman365
05-10-2005, 03:59 PM
looking good, although I have one crit; Robocop drifts a little when he's hiding around the corner. good stretching on Jones' face though when he's on the phone!

keep it coming!

MisterE
05-11-2005, 01:07 AM
Wow, small update, but it looks excellent! Maybe it's just the resolution it's at, but some of the stills of ED walking, in this update, look almost directly from the movie, or, almost photoreal!

BTW, on a side note, did you hear McFarlane and NECA are releasing big 12"+ action figures of Robo? And that McFarlane is doing a battle damaged version? The NECA piece looks awesome, BTW!

KevinKraeer
05-14-2005, 05:24 AM
Hey everyone, I decided to compile everything I have so far just for an overview:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/html/movies/robo.mov

Let me know if anything seems wacky or breaks up the natural flow of the piece. I will definitely be making a couple more sweeps at the end, when all the shots are in place, to fix stuff and add enhancements...

looking good, although I have one crit; Robocop drifts a little when he's hiding around the corner. good stretching on Jones' face though when he's on the phone!

keep it coming!

Hey thanks for checking it out, man...where is the drift, exactly, is it right after ED's arm blows up? I may already know what you mean...but I definitely could use more details.

Wow, small update, but it looks excellent! Maybe it's just the resolution it's at, but some of the stills of ED walking, in this update, look almost directly from the movie, or, almost photoreal!

BTW, on a side note, did you hear McFarlane and NECA are releasing big 12"+ action figures of Robo? And that McFarlane is doing a battle damaged version? The NECA piece looks awesome, BTW!

Hey, thanks rocky! Yeah, throughout the process, the lighting setups have changed for every shot...and the best (most realistic) setups have employed different lights for different parts of the same model. I think four or five lights are each working on different parts of ED in that shot; it definitely took some tweaking.

I heard about those McFarlane figures by visiting http://www.robocoparchive.com, they look awesome. I may have to make a purchase as my desk is conspicuously bare.

Thanks again for keeping up with this!

Jeroen
05-14-2005, 08:59 AM
really good, I love the walk animation from all three of them.

norman365
05-14-2005, 01:47 PM
the drift is towards the end when ED fires the first missile from it's arm.

looking good!

jussing
05-14-2005, 02:06 PM
Nice! :) -That's quite a project!

- Jonas

plaguelord
05-14-2005, 05:24 PM
Im following this project from the begining, and its always good receive updates, I dont have any critics, as a robocop fan Im only enjoy the animation :thumbsup: You are making a awesome job with this animation. keep it up!

MisterE
05-14-2005, 09:48 PM
Man. It's amazing watching this clip, knowing how far you've come along. I like a lot of the little stuff you've accomplished. Things such as Robo's metal shader in some shots, him clenching his teeth while pushing ED's arm away, the lighting, the special f/x...just awesome.

Few minor crit's though. I still think it looks silly when he dodges ED's first missile (he's scurrying away instead of hurling himself out of the way); and also, when you see the extreme closeup of Murphy's eyes when he sees ED is about to shoot him in the face - the head tilt still looks a bit too "twitchy."

Keep us posted!

KevinKraeer
05-17-2005, 03:46 AM
Hey guys. This shot is not done, the lighting is totally messed. However, I wanted to see if you had any thoughts/crits on the motion:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/051605.mov

Shot 51:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot51g20.jpg

MisterE
05-17-2005, 04:39 AM
The left arm needs to be loosened up just a bit. Looks like the forearm needs to move a bit.

Jeroen
05-17-2005, 11:51 AM
The motion of those two are pretty good.

I think the light is to white, that's all

KevinKraeer
05-28-2005, 03:05 AM
Hey friends. Added some more stuff:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/052705.mov

Shot 52:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot52b30fps60.jpg

Shot 53:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot53c67.jpg

Let me know how everything looks!

Neeno
05-30-2005, 02:52 PM
sheez man thats awesome!!

rynomyte
05-31-2005, 11:39 PM
This is looking awesome! believe it or not, my first model ever was ED-209! I created it about 9 months ago....I kind of gave up on him all together because my skills were not really at a level to finish him....I actually gave up on animating him also because I could not figure out how to get the sliding/rotation motion of his knee joints. I will have to read through this thread some more and get some pointers! You may have inspired me to complete my version...Great work! I know how hard rigging and animating ED could be! Can't wait to see more!


Here are some crappy renders of my 90 percent completed ED model with no textures...not quite as good as yours but not bad for a first model, eh?

EPICI
06-01-2005, 12:30 AM
Hey Kevin Kraeer

great job :thumbsup:

I like also particles effects.


EPICI

PS: rynomyte also your model is cool.

rynomyte
06-01-2005, 12:36 AM
Hey, thanks EPICI. Maybe someday I will do something half as cool with it as Kevin has done.....

KevinKraeer
06-01-2005, 12:42 AM
Hey thanks guys. I finished two more shots this weekend; one of which was rendered last night. So I'll post those as soon as the other is ready.

rynomyte, you were well on your way. You should definitely pick it back up!

Thanks again for checking this out.

rynomyte
06-01-2005, 01:24 AM
Thanks...after seeing all of this Robocop madness, I got a fever...and the only prescription is more cowb.....I mean yeah, I think you have truly inspired me Kevin...This stuff is really great. I haven't even been able to take it all in yet...I just kind of stumbled across it. I think I definately need to compete my ED...I have about a year of learning under my belt so It's about time I think... I think I need to read that leg setup again...not too much experience in crazy rig setups...Plus, I am not too familiar with Mayas rigging system...I have only gotten into Max so far. But I think they look relatively similar...(?) Any way great job so far! I am now a loyal subscriber and if I make any headway on mine I'll let you know.

KevinKraeer
06-01-2005, 06:38 AM
Hey rynomyte, good luck working with the ED rig that JoSchmo helped me with. Let me know if I can help you out with it. Personally, I think it is easier to rig stuff in Maya than in MAX but thats just me.

Anyway, got some new stuff: http://www.kraeeranimation.com/-531-5.mov

Shot 54:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot54b60.jpg

Shot 55:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot55b80.jpg

I think ED may need pieces inside his leg (for when the hollow inside faces the camera). There may need to be more smoke in that one too.

Shot 55 I think I need to sort out the depth map vs ray traced shadows.

But, hopefully the motion is all there.

Let me know what you think!

jampoz
06-01-2005, 07:26 AM
Dude... damn it... that's amazing, playbacking it for the 20th time in a row, it's so cool!
Hell let's go watch the movie... be back later yo!

Jeroen
06-01-2005, 11:07 PM
he man, those pictures look great.
I only can't download the movie

MisterE
06-02-2005, 02:55 AM
he man, those pictures look great.
I only can't download the movie

Ditto ^. What he said.

KevinKraeer
06-02-2005, 03:30 AM
Sorry guys, I was half asleep when I added that link. Here's the right one:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/053105.mov

Let me know how everything looks!

MisterE
06-02-2005, 05:47 AM
In shot 53, I notice once again two still frames before the cut to shot 54. And also right before that, it looks as though he pauses before continuing down the stairs, as if he takes a step back almost before continuing down the stairs in 54. Hopefully getting rid of those stills will alleviate that problem.

About the lighting/rendering, I think it looks really great. The entire stairwell scene looks SPOT ON from the movie!! :thumbsup:

Also, w/ this new scene, is it less intensive for your computer? Is it easy to undo actions compared to the bigger office scene(s)?

Jeroen
06-02-2005, 09:52 AM
looks great man.
I only thinks he turns to fast when he is at the door.
:thumbsup:

Augh
06-02-2005, 04:07 PM
Hehe when I first ran into this thread Bob Morton was making a mistake, now it's time to erase that mis-uhh, Dick Jones was still taunting Robo I mean :) It's really cool to see this is still going strong. Shot for shot the real movie is still getting a run for its money ;) I'm noticing little jerks and twitches in Robo right from the start, and up to the (sweet :D) recent updates, which are just *exactly* how he moves in the movie when he gets all busted up, everything is done with a real attention to detail and flow. Keep it up man... And thanks to you and all involved for posting that info about Ed's legs rigging way back there. That was the real obstacle stopping me giving the guy a try myself :D

Keep it up! :)

KevinKraeer
06-02-2005, 05:18 PM
Thank you all very much! I'm glad that the quality, overall, is holding up. I have really started to run out of steam in recent weeks, so the encouragement definitely helps.

In shot 53, I notice once again two still frames before the cut to shot 54. And also right before that, it looks as though he pauses before continuing down the stairs, as if he takes a step back almost before continuing down the stairs in 54. Hopefully getting rid of those stills will alleviate that problem.

Hey thanks for staying with it rocky! I agree here, I think that the subsequent shot, with ED pivoting inside the little vestibule, is starting a few frames late. Maybe just two. I think that will help. I may need to time stretch both clips slightly. Is the motion okay?


Also, w/ this new scene, is it less intensive for your computer? Is it easy to undo actions compared to the bigger office scene(s)?

It is definitely less intense and renders much faster. One of the problems with my workflow earlier is that I would reuse scene files from earlier shots for new scenes. Even though it made things move a little faster, the result was that there were a lot of lights not linked to anything, and geomtery out of camera range that didnt need to be there.

So now, I just have stairs and that little chunk at the top, and that's it. So rendering shot 54 (120 frames), which I would expect to be an overnight render in the main office, now takes two-and-a-half hours with ray tracing, motion blur, etc.


Hehe when I first ran into this thread Bob Morton was making a mistake, now it's time to erase that mis-uhh, Dick Jones was still taunting Robo I mean :)

Thanks for sticking with this! It's not over yet...let me know if you need any assistance with the ED rig.

Thanks all for checking this out!

MisterE
06-02-2005, 05:35 PM
The motion looks fine. Especially shot 55 - that is PERFECT! Though, like I said, just cut a little early on in shot 53 onwards to 54 to eliminate that "pause"-feel.

I also just noticed two things right now after watching it again - minor things. In shot 54, when Robo's head is low in the frame, it looks like it sways too much from side-to-side. On a positive side, last night I was very tired to notice this, but in the same shot, 54, I love how you animated ED sizing up the small door! LOL! :scream:

KevinKraeer
06-02-2005, 06:35 PM
In shot 54, when Robo's head is low in the frame, it looks like it sways too much from side-to-side.

Hey thanks man. I will take a look at that swaying and smooth it over, I also want to add just a little more bounce to ED after the first step.

KevinKraeer
06-07-2005, 07:26 AM
Updates:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/060605.mov

It's too late to post all of the stills that I did, I was really, really busy this past weekend!

Let me know how everything looks...

Kid-Mesh
06-07-2005, 11:53 AM
That is really good, looks like all your hard work and effort is really paying off :)

MisterE
06-07-2005, 07:24 PM
Everything looks great w/ the minor exception of some lighting glitches. I see you changed Robo's head swaying. Looks a lot better! No crit's.

On to the lighting.....When you see the CU of Robo's face looking at ED, I see some static-y jaggies going on around his mouth & chin. Also, when ED is looking down at his toes, on his head itself as well as his right arm, there appears to be some weird lighting "blocky" issues going on. In one frame it looks ok, then the very next the shadow on the object in question looks plain odd - and then it suddenly changes back to what it was before.

Do you know what I mean (did you catch this yourself)? Or if you need me to, I can post some frame comparisons here later..

Like I said, minor "glitch," but otherwise no crit's on the animation itself.

KevinKraeer
06-07-2005, 07:31 PM
Everything looks great w/ the minor exception of some lighting glitches. I see you changed Robo's head swaying. Looks a lot better! No crit's.

On to the lighting.....When you see the CU of Robo's face looking at ED, I see some static-y jaggies going on around his mouth & chin. Also, when ED is looking down at his toes, on his head itself as well as his right arm, there appears to be some weird lighting "blocky" issues going on. In one frame it looks ok, then the very next the shadow on the object in question looks plain odd - and then it suddenly changes back to what it was before.

Do you know what I mean (did you catch this yourself)? Or if you need me to, I can post some frame comparisons here later..

Like I said, minor "glitch," but otherwise no crit's on the animation itself.

You and I are truly on the same vibe, glad you caught those things too. I wasn't sure how noticeable they were; the closeup of Robo is easy to fix; I have a depth map shadow in there somewhere apparently. I need to either increase the depth map resolution or switch the ray tracing 'on' instead.

I'm hoping the same thing is going on with ED, I did see that a large triangular shade appears for a moment when he sways to his left...if it's not a depth map problem, then I may need to rework that "mask-screen" shader just for his close-ups.

Yes, I did indeed fix the head sway as he bobs down the stairs. Thanks for pointing that one out, it had slipped by me.

Once I finish the last shots, I'll likely render out the whole "stairway" chunk - with shot 54 shaved down - and repost to make sure I got everything, then render the entire monster for a final list of crits.

Thanks for staying with this!

Relic
06-14-2005, 05:17 PM
Awesome, big Robocop fan and somehow missed this up until now, the ED-209 animations are better than the film, but you're CG and not stop-go :) ED-209 also looks better than the film, Robocop looks great too, the only part that got me is the face but what can you do, his body looks great and makes up for it.

KevinKraeer
06-14-2005, 06:55 PM
Awesome, big Robocop fan and somehow missed this up until now, the ED-209 animations are better than the film, but you're CG and not stop-go :) ED-209 also looks better than the film, Robocop looks great too, the only part that got me is the face but what can you do, his body looks great and makes up for it.

Hey thanks man, I really appreciate it. "better than the film" is quite a compliment!

As a student and huge fan of Phil Tippett, I cannot agree completely; but I cannot deny that I have dreamed of one day working on the remake of RoboCop with a digital ED.

Thanks for checking it out!

norman365
06-15-2005, 05:30 PM
really good so far Kev!

especially like the secondary action on ED's body and how you rotate the ankle joint.

KevinKraeer
06-17-2005, 05:57 AM
Hey thanks norman365! I appreciate the kind words. Every bit of encouragement helps as I push forward through these last shots.

I have updates, I have hopefully addressed all of the concerns you guys mentioned (regarding the stairs segment) with this clip:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/061605.mov

And here are the relevant stills (some are ommitted to save page space, since the angle and lighting are repeated):

Shot 56:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot56b34.jpg

Shot 57:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot57a26.jpg

Shot 58:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot58a26.jpg

Shot 59:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot59a21.jpg

Shot 60:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot60a43.jpg



Shot 61 is the same angle and lighting as 59 (the cam pans down slightly with the foot "twitch").
Shot 62 is the same angle and lighting as 55 (Robo standing on the stairs, looking up).
Shot 63 is the same angle and lighting as 60 (Close up on ED as he further evaluates the stairs).

Shot 64:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot64b14.jpg

Shot 65:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot65a22.jpg

Shot 66:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot66b36.jpg

Shot 67:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/shot67d10.jpg

Let me know what you think!

MisterE
06-17-2005, 06:37 AM
In shot 53, it still looks like he pauses. It looks as if he's walking down the stairs, and he sees something such that he has to suddenly brace himself so he doesn't step in whatever it is he sees.

I see you've fixed the lighting/shadow glitches and the shots look much better now. I also really love the ED animation as he scopes out the steps to see if he can walk down them! Pretty funny stuff!! Can't wait to see you try to animate him bawling like a baby, kicking and screaming and such, hehe.

Speaking of which, didn't you say you were going to stop near or around that shot? If not, how far do you plan on animating this?

norman365
06-17-2005, 12:29 PM
It's looking good although I think ED would fall down the stairs slightly faster than he does, considering the weight he's carrying. I love how the foot keeps hitting the different stairs on the way down!

KevinKraeer
06-27-2005, 06:36 AM
Hey guys. Well, here is the final rough! All of the completed shots are in there, complete with an end title:

http://www.kraeeranimation.com/html/movies/robo.mov

I've added a number of small refinements. Little sparks pop out of ED's launcher on the wide shots with the missiles. A blue haze begins shot 39 as in the movie. A lighting glitch in shot 52 has been fixed. In shot 63, I added a little bloom to the gun as it moves in the harsh overhead lighting. I was looking to add the little things that I'm hoping will give it an edge of realism, and keep it true to the source material.

As I see it, the really outstanding things at this point are the recoil in shot 37, and the kickback in shot 52. I am not sure if they are glaring enough problems to warrant another couple weeks; I am thinking about laying this garganutan animation project to rest. Let me know what you think. At the minimum, I think I need to take a break for a while.

(just noticed shot 60 is too bright - ED looking down at the stairs)

Let me know what you think!

Joscci
06-27-2005, 04:38 PM
This is so sweet! I Love it. :) Especially the small little details, such as the ED-209 firing the small rockets (volumetric effects and all).

Awesome tribute -- thanks for sharing. :thumbsup:

MisterE
06-27-2005, 11:52 PM
Kevin, you've done an outstanding job so far. And for those who may have just seen this thread, know that Kevin has done EVEVERYTHING here by himself. A true one-man job. I think he deserves a round of applause! :applause:

On to the crit's: I did notice the one change you mentioned, about the glare/glow on ED's gun in shot 63. I think it looks good, but a little overstated. There are other little nitpicks here and there (like Robo scrambling away from the first missile and Robo about to lose his balance in the stairway), but overall it looks awesome. Especially for a low-to-medium-poly job. And again I love the lighting scheme you've used. Some of the shots are really amazing to look at.

Just one final question: What resolution is the final animation going to be rendered at? :)
Enjoy your much deserved break!

KevinKraeer
06-28-2005, 12:21 AM
Kevin, you've done an outstanding job so far. And for those who may have just seen this thread, know that Kevin has done EVEVERYTHING here by himself. A true one-man job. I think he deserves a round of applause! :applause:

On to the crit's: I did notice the one change you mentioned, about the glare/glow on ED's gun in shot 63. I think it looks good, but a little overstated. There are other little nitpicks here and there (like Robo scrambling away from the first missile and Robo about to lose his balance in the stairway), but overall it looks awesome. Especially for a low-to-medium-poly job. And again I love the lighting scheme you've used. Some of the shots are really amazing to look at.

Just one final question: What resolution is the final animation going to be rendered at? :)
Enjoy your much deserved break!

Hey rocky, thanks for the really nice plug...and thanks again to you and to everybody for staying with this and offering your critiques. They've been EXTREMELY helpful and the animation is better because of them.

I'll tone back the glint on the gun, and I'll see about re-working those two suspect shots.

The final animation will be available both at 640 x 480 and 320 x 240. I'm planning to post to 'Finished Work: Animation' when it's all polished off.

Thanks again!

jackycheung
06-30-2005, 08:36 AM
look aa vrey cool ,but i can not open your link .

KevinKraeer
07-03-2005, 11:01 PM
Well guys, I got home early Friday and spent some time with shots 20, 37, 53, and 70. In shot 20, I wasn't pleased with the lighting on the floor. I worked on Robo's recoil in shot 37, adjusted his moevement near the end of 53, and smoothed his descent down the stairs in shot 70.

I then re-rendered, and went back to After Effects with more fine tuning. I toned back the bloom on the gun near the end, added some subtle spark effects to the rockets as they whizz by, and finally felt satisfied with the piece overall to start a thread in the Finished work section:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=2433346#post2433346

Once again, thanks to everyone for your advice and encouragement. It is a much better animation for being created on this forum, with your remarks.

As for me it's on to the next one, and hopefully a job doing this everyday :).

- Kevin

Relic
07-11-2005, 12:34 AM
Saw the latest and final I think? ED-209 looks great like I said before, I just like seeing him in fluid motion and recreating the Robo and Dick Jones was all done well as I said before too.

A CG Robocop remake would be awesome. At least we could still have Peter Weller doing the voice for Murphy. Have you seen the Prime Directives show? That was total caca, I didn't see it when it was originally on but found a DVD for $2 and watched one episode. The guy playing Robo was awful and production value was so low, the music was so non-Robo too, it sounded like a mexican Robocop, nothing against mexican music but it wasn't Robo at all.

CGTalk Moderation
07-11-2005, 12:34 AM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.