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daart
09-04-2004, 10:54 AM
BionicFX announces audio processing on NVIDIA GPU
Links:
http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20040902_135943.html
http://www.bionicfx.com/

The Found Vertex
09-06-2004, 04:57 AM
OK. firstly tomshardware exxagerates quite a bit. There are currently 2 mass-marketed DSP-cards that are uses by thousands of music producers and engineers.

1. Universal Audio Uad-1: http://www.jrrshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=2855&osCsid=e6ab53fbed5aedcb6415db911d80f8c9

2. TC electronics Powercore (in 2 flavors): http://www.jrrshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=2069 and http://www.jrrshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=599

Of course there's other audio cards that offer onboard DSP as well like sydec mixtreme, mackie spike, emu's new cards etc...

Take note of the prices. Not exactly thousands of dollars. This was of course in reference to HD systems like those by Sydec, Digidesign, sadie, merging technologies, sonic solutions and the old ensoniq stuff. The price is even less attractive by the fact that you must by the video card seperately.

The uad-1 is an old video card itself, slightly modified and the multiplier increased. So this is really not much new in terms of the idea.

Also the idea that this will yeild 40-100gflop performance is impossible. The necassary instructions needed for translation between the different processing systems gives a fair sized overhead on either side... Id think it's more realistic to see more along the lines of 2-4gflop performance. Ive yet to see this in action, but this has been discussed many, many times in musicdsp circles and elsewhere.

And Id like to note that there are patents for technology almost identical to this... And it's not in the name of the proprietor of bionicFX. I dont think he's verging on patent infringement, but certainly not a sign of incredible ingenuity.

It would be interesting to see this in action, but the options are certainly much more viable at the moment. And with new products most likely coming soon... well... I hope bionicFX really has something very strong up their sleeve. A convolution-based reverb is hardly innovative (market is already flooded).

What about latency as well.. there must certainly be a latency to the process, which can ruin it's effectiveness in comparison to the other DSP cards (uad/powercore also have a processing latency). This means it wont work too well in Live 4 as it does not compensate for latency ;) (neither does fruity loops folks!)

Oh yes. The idea that impulse reverbs sound exactly like the space... hahahahaha. haha. hah.. ha.... hrm.

Oh well.

darkerstar
09-06-2004, 06:32 AM
tom's hardware is about as credible as they come.

those cards you mentioned have 1-2 gflops and are not gpus.. not 75-100 as PUBLISHED on the nvidia and ati GPUs.

if you dont think he infringed on a patent why bring it up? have you seen any other technology like this? no. if so, please provide reference.

there are 100+ papers on this site that will explain that conv reverb sounds exactly, exactly! like the environ. http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/ that guy even uses it for acoustical historical purposes.

it's about time something so interesting happened to digital audio. if you read the site it's bigger than audio too, he pretty much just told everyone how to make the next cancer cure number cruncher. amazing.



OK. firstly tomshardware exxagerates quite a bit. There are currently 2 mass-marketed DSP-cards that are uses by thousands of music producers and engineers.

1. Universal Audio Uad-1: http://www.jrrshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=2855&osCsid=e6ab53fbed5aedcb6415db911d80f8c9

2. TC electronics Powercore (in 2 flavors): http://www.jrrshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=2069 and http://www.jrrshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=599

Of course there's other audio cards that offer onboard DSP as well like sydec mixtreme, mackie spike, emu's new cards etc...

Take note of the prices. Not exactly thousands of dollars. This was of course in reference to HD systems like those by Sydec, Digidesign, sadie, merging technologies, sonic solutions and the old ensoniq stuff. The price is even less attractive by the fact that you must by the video card seperately.

The uad-1 is an old video card itself, slightly modified and the multiplier increased. So this is really not much new in terms of the idea.

Also the idea that this will yeild 40-100gflop performance is impossible. The necassary instructions needed for translation between the different processing systems gives a fair sized overhead on either side... Id think it's more realistic to see more along the lines of 2-4gflop performance. Ive yet to see this in action, but this has been discussed many, many times in musicdsp circles and elsewhere.

And Id like to note that there are patents for technology almost identical to this... And it's not in the name of the proprietor of bionicFX. I dont think he's verging on patent infringement, but certainly not a sign of incredible ingenuity.

It would be interesting to see this in action, but the options are certainly much more viable at the moment. And with new products most likely coming soon... well... I hope bionicFX really has something very strong up their sleeve. A convolution-based reverb is hardly innovative (market is already flooded).

What about latency as well.. there must certainly be a latency to the process, which can ruin it's effectiveness in comparison to the other DSP cards (uad/powercore also have a processing latency). This means it wont work too well in Live 4 as it does not compensate for latency ;) (neither does fruity loops folks!)

Oh yes. The idea that impulse reverbs sound exactly like the space... hahahahaha. haha. hah.. ha.... hrm.

Oh well.

The Found Vertex
09-06-2004, 05:00 PM
tom's hardware is about as credible as they come.

That's a joke right?


those cards you mentioned have 1-2 gflops and are not gpus.. not 75-100 as PUBLISHED on the nvidia and ati GPUs.

The UAD-1 card is, and as I pointed out, you will not be getting 75-100gflop performance out of your 6800's and x800's. Even bionicfx says so :-\


if you dont think he infringed on a patent why bring it up? have you seen any other technology like this? no. if so, please provide reference.

yes, and I did give reference. The US patent office is readily available on the web. Given the tone of your post, Im not terribly inclined to share my time spent looking up that information? Care to look it up yourself or was this just a cheap shot? There have been people trying to (and succeding) using the gpu for a while now. check calarts, us patent office and your friend google.


there are 100+ papers on this site that will explain that conv reverb sounds exactly, exactly! like the environ. http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/ that guy even uses it for acoustical historical purposes.

You realize that I work in audio DSP and engineering correct, pays my bills and all? Ive worked with convolution lots. You cant even make a recording sound exactly like the source due to basic electrical anomolies in transducers, amplifiers and incorrect implementation of AD/DA chains (eve if it was perfect it's still far), let alone a recorded impulse. It would also require surround processing and a different method of production the convoling sample than impulse... Quite frankly the fact that there are about 15 convolution reverbs in software already out there, which all perform almost identical functions is pretty boring... Raytraced reverbs are much more hip man.


it's about time something so interesting happened to digital audio. if you read the site it's bigger than audio too, he pretty much just told everyone how to make the next cancer cure number cruncher. amazing.

I guess custom processors and DSP chips are obsoleted now, let's make super-clusters of GPU's... or not. And of course dual-core 64-bit chips on the horizon...

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