Time to Upgrade?

[E.T]

Are you kidding? If youre serious about your 3d, youre going to have to upgrade. Its so much more fun and efficent to work on a real workstation. I rendered 350 frames in brazil last night, Somewhere over 50000 polys and 3 lights, heavy on character studio and morphomatic. Took me about 5 hours. :buttrock:

Its worth it. Allthough when your machine gets faster youre going to get spoiled with it, and get upset about rendering times.

E.T

[Xilica]

I estimated 350 frames at 50,000 polys rendered at 640 x 480 would take approx 13 days.

Can you give me kind of an idea on how much RAM what processor speed etc. of what I might need? Thanks.

-Mike

[E.T]

i guess the correct answer is as much as you can afford.
I can tell you what i have, and im very satisfied with my rig now.

dual 1,8ghz xeon
1gb ram
quadro pro 4 750xgl
80gb harddrive

And two monitors, one 19" and one 17". Would have gotten two 19 but i couldnt afford it. But it does save a lot of time, especially when animating stuff.

Thats it, bought from dell online and works like a charm.
E.T

[Xilica]

Nice. Now does a graphics card help the render process?

Also, why a Xeon processor? Heh, what is differance from a Pentium to a Xeon? Thanks.

-Mike

[Das]

Graphics card usually doesn't help rendering (the exception is with stuff like Maya's ability to use the graphics card to accelerate some effects - mainly particles, I think. I don't really remember the details).

Xeon CPUs have a much larger and faster internal cache. This tends to give them noticably faster speeds than a non-Xeon CPU of the same speed. They're usually much more expensive, though.

[E.T]

The graphics card only helps when youre working actually.
It makes shifting the polys a lot smoother.

Xeon processors as i understand it is built to take advantage of dual processors to a further extent than the Pentium. At least thats what i read in computerarts. So they should at least theoretically be up to 30% (or something) faster when rendering because they can shift information between eachother in a more efficient way. :hmm:

well computer mumbo jumbo not being my strongest point,i hope i made some sense:D

[Xilica]

Thanks. I'm going to check out my local Best Buy or CompUSA for a new computer. Umm, wait, you can't buy computers with Xeon, can you? Or do you have to build them yourself? Thanks.

-Mike

[E.T]

well like i said bought mine from Dell.com
they had by far the best price around here (sweden)
also i got next day support, for three years, which is actually a blessing.

E.T

[Xilica]

Ok, thanks for all the help. I am going to look into getting a Dell computer or Alienware since those are custom made. Thanks for all the responses, much appreciated. Cheers and Thanks. :thumbsup:

- Mike

[Theta]

or build your own ;)

[Xilica]

That's an option, but I only have a rough idea how and I would rather not encounter problems along the way that would hinder me from doing graphics. :airguitar

[cdinic]

*sigh...

First things first, Intel SUCKS!
Second thing: DELL sucks!
Third thing: INTEL SUCKS!!!!!

If you don't agree with me I would be glad to explain my reasoning in another thread.

Now if you don't have the time to devote to learning computer hardware so that you can build your own machine, please go here for the best computers, best prices anywhere!

www.alienware.com

-Chris

[E.T]

well to each his own.
I have only bad experiences of building my own machines, and i cant afford to NOT have nextday on site service. I cant afford to repair my own computer because i need to work as im a freelance. just takes too much time, and ive noone to blame ;)

Maybe if it would just be my homecomputer i wouldnt care...
but like i said to each his own, im not even interested in starting an argument over intel vs athlon or whatever.

Seems a waste of time if you ask me, im here for the creative side of things.

E.T

[Xilica]

I just checked out AlienWare. Seems a bit pricy as if they jack up the price just because you are getting a fancy case and 'what not'.'

[Joel Hooks]

Uh, Xeon is totally overpriced for what you seek. As a long time Intel user, I decided on this years computer being an AMD Athlon, and Intel is gonna have a hard time convincing me to switch back for next years upgrade.

http://www.newegg.com/app/WishR.asp?ID=135109


$649. With a 19" Viewsonic monitor. Needs a CD-ROM or CD-R/RW drive to be a true complete system.

Or drop $2-3k at Dell or Alienware for a pretty looking case and everything assembled. :)

If you aren't comfortable building your own computers, there are many books on the subject (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0072195584/qid=1028749881/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/103-1897789-7254248)

I estimate my overall 8 year savings from building my own machines to be around $12,000. I upgrade every year for a minimal cost, and I always have 3 viable machines to make a network with.

[dvornik]

I agree with "Dell sucks" feelings. I support Dells at work. Intell... Well you can live with them. Don't want to argue on this. Athlons are cheaper, I have one myself. If you're on a budget get a single Athlon box. Gonna cost a bit over a thousand bucks. Of course dual is better for rendering, and Quadro is good for modelling, but it's not a miracle machine, anyway. And it's going to get outdated in half a year. So it doesn't make sense to break your budget. If $3000 sounds like a lot of money (it does to me) - get a single Athlon. Build it or have your local shop build it. Check the hardware forum for the cases thread (Alienware case is $50).

[dvornik]

No not GEFORCE 2 MX200, are you kidding? GF4 Ti 4200 or 4400. But generally that's an idea for a budget box. Maybe a better processor and a better case.

[Joel Hooks]

I was relooking over that list I posted above, and wanted to point out that the system actually is a bit weak in a couple of areas because I configured it for family users instead of as a 3d machine.

I would put another 512mb of ram and choose a beefier video card. I use a 64mb geforce 2 Ultra personally, and it is very responsive. With those two additions and a CD-R you'd be looking at $1000 or so complete.

Even the $649 system would be a VAST upgrade to that doorstop you're running now ;)

[Joel Hooks]

Originally posted by dvornik
No not GEFORCE 2 MX200, are you kidding? GF4 Ti 4200 or 4400. But generally that's an idea for a budget box. Maybe a better processor and a better case.

My next comp is going to be a dual athlon with one of those cards. I can't wait!

Even the GF2 MX200 isn't all that awful, especially when you are upgrading from a stealth64 (or whatever 4mb card that system has.) heh

[dvornik]

I agree on the upgrades issue. You have to keep in mind that it's a contunuous investment. Basically you need a new box every year - year and a half to stay close to current speed. I budget about $1000 a year. Of course I wish it was $4000.

[Xilica]

I try not to have the best. If someone were to pay 4,000 dollars for the best equipment on the market it would be obselet the next year at the rate technology is going. :D

[Joel Hooks]

Originally posted by xilica
I try not to have the best. If someone were to pay 4,000 dollars for the best equipment on the market it would be obselet the next year at the rate technology is going. :D

My dual p3 450 is a few years old, and is far from obsolete. It makes a great render station. Now, if I had of paid $10k (that's wht intergraph was selling them for back when) I would feel screwed, but if I was dropping $10k on a computer, it would be for a job that needed the horsepower, and would pay for the rig. :)

[cdinic]

oooh ohohoh

another great point,

why ever purchase an integraph, sgi machine?!?!?!

I could buy 4 killer machiens for the sdame price, and they wopuld destroy the SUPER high end sgi stations, much cheaper to upgrade, and maintain....

as far as dell, Vs. building your own, I figured it out once, I could build 6 boxes for the price of one.

you can go to dell, find a decent machine, well, the least horrible, and then head over to pricewatch.com and price out each part. you will be astonished!

-Chris

[Xilica]

What I was planning to do with older machines like 400 mHz or 500 mHz was to network them to make Render Farms.

[dvornik]

That would work. It's not too difficult. You don't even need more licenses for it.

[Xilica]

Yeah, some guy told me I didn't need any licenses for it. By the way, do you know where I can get any tutorials on how to Render Farm or are their instructions in the Reference books that come with 3D Studio Max 4.2? Thanks.

- Mike

[thinKer3D]

:: uhhh....Athlon is the final answer when it comes to rendering.

Just the basics

Single 2200+ Athlon XP ---- ~$200
MSI KT3 Ultra2 Motherboard (pure stability+sick speed) ---- ~$95
1GB RAM DDR ---- (2 dimms) ~ $192
HD 80.0GB ---- ~$84.00
ATI RADEON 7500 ---- (price conscience?) ~$53
Case w/ps ---- ~$30

http://www.pricewatch.com

So for around $654 you can build a seroiusly high performance workstations that will easily render 350 frames in brazil, 50,000 polys and lights with heavy character animation and in less than 5 minutes.

Athlons are extreamly fast. Intel duals have to share ONE bus. Athlons use Point-to-Point = no shareing = max performance at a much cheaper price.

Forget the talk, you must see single Athlon machines (2000+ - 2200+) in rendering action to believe what I am saying (any type of rendering). Now imagine Dual Athlons each CPU with it's own bus?

For 3D, Athlons should be your one and only stop.

::

[dvornik]

http://www.discreet.com/support/max/faq/searchlist.php3

See articles in the network section. When you get to set it up, ask here. It sounds confusing at first, but it's not a big deal. You'll need to use network naming conventions for your folders and files - the most important part of it.

[Joel Hooks]

Originally posted by dvornik
You'll need to use network naming conventions for your folders and files - the most important part of it.

There's even a Utility that will change all the paths of your textures. This is EXTREMELY handy.


http://www.newegg.com/app/WishR.asp?ID=141055

Coming in at $1900 is the dual 1.6ghz athlon with wicked audio and video capture/playback via a pinncle board. :)

[dvornik]

Hmm... I totally hate DV500 and Pinnacle, after struggling with it for 3 weeks at work. We don't use it now cause it didn't work for anything we needed it for. Check their support board - it'll scare you away. What do you need it for? I mean it works in certain situations, but you really have to research.

Chieftec case should be bought without Turbo Link power supply - I made this mistake and had to replace the PS (with Antec true power, $70 or smth) cause it's extremely loud and I was getting warnings from the ASUS utility about voltage.

But damn, it looks cheap.

Oh, which utility?

[Joel Hooks]

I've only used a DV1000, and had pretty good luck with it. We were using it for DVD output.

It's realtime stuff in premiere was pretty crappy. It's fairly inexpensive, but you're right, probably better solutions out there for sure :)

The utility is the "MapPath Editor". It's a stock util, under the More.. button in the Utility Panel. Takes 2 seconds to change the paths of all your maps.

[dvornik]

Thanks, Joel. It's certainly good to know. I'm trying to come up with a workflow for our students to network render their animation, so far it was a bit tedious. I may start a new thread on this.

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