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I-NetGraFX
09-02-2004, 10:12 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/gallerycrits/58284/58284_1094464512_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/gallerycrits/58284/58284_1094464512.jpg)

Title: Mattepaint: "city Of Gods"
Name: Daniel Kvasznicza
Country: Austria
Software: Cinema4d, Painter, Photoshop

I had the idea to create a mattepainting, while I looked thru some egyptian holiday photos of my friend. Like you see I've mixed up some stuff, various pyramids, obelisks, figures, etc. found via google and some digital photos of my friend.
This time I wanted to achieve the lighting of dawn, showing the contrast between the coolness of night and the warm feeling of the beginning sunset.
I've used Painter 8 and Photoshop 7 on a Wacom Intuos2 A4 board. Finally I'll project the matte on a 3D geometry for an animation . . .
Updated: Sept. 6th
>> Hi resolution image << (http://www.inetgrafx.at/CITY-OF-GODS-1600.jpg)

mash1000
09-02-2004, 11:50 PM
You should show the oryginal photo then we can comapare it.

onlooker
09-02-2004, 11:57 PM
Yea I agree with the first poster, but this is a great painting. I'm stunned. I would like to see your references though. :thumbsup:

cserbuj
09-03-2004, 08:31 AM
Yes, I also would like to know if there's any photo there, but the result is wonderfull. Great lighting effect. The mood is perfect. Congratulations anyway

I-NetGraFX
09-03-2004, 08:41 AM
Here are the photo references I used.
The first composite I did was lit with daylight.
But I've chosen a cool mystical mood - finally I've got a dawn scenery, where the sun hits the top of the pyramids ...

http://www.inetgrafx.at/CITY-OF-GODS-REF-COLLAGE-1.jpg

... Like you see not all photos are from egyptian origin ;).


Thanks for your comments though! :)

Edit: BTW, Cserbuj nice interior renderings you've got on your page! :thumbsup:

andreasrocha
09-03-2004, 10:23 AM
Alright...now there's proof of a great matte painting. Looks really good. The only thing that I think does not work well is the perspective of the two near statues (since the they were almost facing the original photo). Perhaps you could copy the two other statues in place of these and reconstruct (or "destruct") these copies.
Perhaps a more panoramic frame would also improve the image. (but probably you are keeping this frame format for video...)

But great work! Give us more.

jussing
09-03-2004, 11:36 AM
Waow, Karnak IN a pyramid! If I was to build the pyramids, that's how I woulda dunnit. :) I just love egyptian epic architecture, and this is really spectacular.

(rightclick, "set as background"!)

- Jonas

Skulleader
09-03-2004, 12:17 PM
Hello Daniel, :applause:

Great job ! :bowdown: :bowdown:

The ambience of this image is really very well created.
I would like to know if you could not published this magnificent image in a bigger resolution (1024 x 864 or 1600 x 1200).
I would like to use this image as wallpaper for my desktop.

Still thank's for tha quality of your work. :wavey:

Skull Leader. :thumbsup:

elektronaut
09-03-2004, 12:35 PM
really great job!
i like the light-atmossphere in the pic... congrats for the frontpage ;)

nendo_3d
09-03-2004, 12:41 PM
can we have a wirer of what u did in cinema 4d pls

its looks almost real. stunned i am lol

gabio
09-03-2004, 12:48 PM
you know what? the first time i saw this picture i was sure you did the pyramide of the momy return 2, at the end of the movie. everything is there.

Fetus23
09-03-2004, 01:08 PM
Great peice I-NetGraFX. Is that a UFO or an blimp/airship in the sky? I hope its a ufo :).
Annunaki perhapes?

cheers
fetus

decembermoon
09-03-2004, 01:10 PM
very good , btw , this our egyptian pound . :thumbsup:

alaa ahmed
09-03-2004, 01:11 PM
really magnificent .......... Karnak and a pyramid really the perfect mix
as jussing said If I was to build the pyramids, that's how I woulda dunnit

mr.wheels
09-03-2004, 01:19 PM
Stunning peice I really love it (i dont use the word stunning often) :) I like the lighting its just right it achieves the feeling of between night and sunset I got a nice feeling looking at it its not often I get that


really nice :)

konst
09-03-2004, 02:01 PM
I love the colors...it gives the right mood. And you have done a good job to get those pictures together. But I have to agree with andreasrocha about the statuse...it is like they are looking at the wrong direction.


But it is still great.:thumbsup:

Julez4001
09-03-2004, 02:22 PM
Fantastic.

Great idea and flowthru and very good workflow.

Rizo
09-03-2004, 02:26 PM
The overall image looks pretty ok, when you star to deatiling a few things there are some problems, like some weirds vanishing points and stuff like that... and its start to look like an "Escher" image... but the atmosfere and the illumination is just great!
RIzo

Saku-Pekonmaki
09-03-2004, 03:59 PM
itīs a nice composition. well made blending of all these picures together. one thing is obvious though. it seems to me more like a cut nīpaste picture where u have taken one peace from each picture and blended it together in PS. no offence meant.

Ufu'uk
09-03-2004, 04:12 PM
look really great:) BTW. i'm going to Egypt this october:) i can't wait

mhsf
09-03-2004, 04:28 PM
Is very nice

logotomie
09-03-2004, 05:01 PM
Hmmm. Color, athmosphere and mood are verrry cool. but in someplace the perspective does not fit. First thing i noticed was the perspective of the statues (is this Abu Simbel?) The photo was shot with quite a wide angle lens and you look almost straight onto the leftmost statue. But the pyramid has a completely different perspective.

Varsha
09-03-2004, 05:03 PM
goodness gracious! You've just done the heck of a job! Spectacular...If this place is really out there, I am sure I have to make a visit and take a photograph of me standing there. Unfortunately, I shud be a CG character to be in this place. May be u can model me...:thumbsup:

jussing
09-03-2004, 05:23 PM
really magnificent .......... Karnak and a pyramid really the perfect mix
as jussing saidI was mistaken, it's Abu Simpel, lol. :)

michaeli
09-03-2004, 06:03 PM
Beautiful work, I love the mood very much! :thumbsup:

Angelite_04
09-03-2004, 07:10 PM
it's amazing! At first I thought it was a 3D model. Do you have the animation that you did of the projection?

Squibbit
09-03-2004, 07:23 PM
VVVerrry nicely done !

SUN
09-03-2004, 09:29 PM
amazing!!!http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

anuj2anand
09-04-2004, 01:37 AM
Good Job !!

i love the colors.

keep up the good work.

Saeed
09-04-2004, 01:48 AM
very nice:applause:

MaRvI
09-04-2004, 03:23 AM
Can somebody PLEASE model this, i really want to see more of it... The mood is breath taking...

The only thing I would love to see better is the sense of scale... if you've been to the pyramids then you would know that a block is gigantic... and the torch in the entrance makes the pyramid look quite a bit smaller than it should be...

Overal... WONDERFULL... I really love it...

tr1cky
09-04-2004, 04:53 AM
I guess at first I was going to mention something that bothered me a little, and it is this:
The side of the pyramid is completely black, which, although makes sense in the screenshot of the real thing that you posted (because of directed day-light), makes no sense at an evening/dawn setting, when the sun is coming down, and the light becomes more diffused. If you wanted this more realistic, an object of that size, would surely at least a little be lit on all sides. And this made me notice other things...

There are other problems and I have questions as well I guess. I'm linking to a version of your image I made so I can more easily explain it:
http://art.housenihil.com/cityofgodsedit.jpg


Ok, so here.
1: I can literally see the mountain range passing THROUGH the pyramid. Besides the obivious, there's a couple of problems with what you're trying to do: That mountain range is flat, as the mountains in the direct background are (no detail), but they are darker, which makes us think they're a lot closer. It seems to me that at least some detail should be seen in those mountains/hills. (I guess they aren't really mountains if the mountains in the far distance are also mountains, but these are presumably a lot closer because of the much more contrasted hue).
2: That pyramid, to the point of shading, is identical to the one that is in the direct foreground. In fact, all 3 of them are. This is not realistic, because atmosphere is not taken into account. And I have a general problem with how everything is lit. The pyramid in the foreground has a sharp yellowish highlight (from the sun I presume) at it's top (as do pyramids in the background), so I am wondering what exactly is causing the sun to affect it in such a sharp way, since most of the sky is quite bright (and not particularly a similar color). Furthermore, that obelisk on the left-most side, has no such highlight, although, to fit in with this scene, and to be realistic, it definitely should. (the pyramids behind it, which are smaller, have the highlight, and the pyramid in front of it, bigger, has the highlight, so it makes no sense why the obelisk does not).
3: It seems to me that you just flipped the image you posted?
4: Its harder to see in my smaller version, but I can literally see partially transparent rocks through the pillar/ruin.

So Question to you: To me, really, it seems like the only "matte" painting of this matte painting, is that little walkway in front of the pyramid and the small fire, and possibly the blimp (and probably some other small areas I did not notice). So is it worth classifying this as a matte painting, rather than just an assemblage and slight tweaking of elements (from the internet, at that) ? Is this what "matte painting" is? Either way, I think you were unsuccessful in seamlessly merging all your elements, but with a few small tweaks, it could work.

jammin
09-04-2004, 05:07 AM
Tr1cky is on the ball... :thumbsup:

attune
09-04-2004, 07:14 AM
Excellent work. Most impressed. It has a very painterly feel. No crit. :)

deathblood
09-04-2004, 11:28 AM
I read the tr1cky's analysis for this picture....So I want to know the true facts....

alaa ahmed
09-04-2004, 12:46 PM
jussing the image beauty makes me forgotten the names :)
but really when you live here in egypt you saw this things all the time in mass media so the names comes overlapping in your mind :hmm:

Fahim
09-04-2004, 12:55 PM
Maybe it's matte painting.. or not, i don't care.. it's good!

tr1cky.. don't you have anything else to do?

cheater
09-04-2004, 01:24 PM
I just think tr1cky is envious of the masterful use of colour, shading, and composition in that picture.
It really is a masterpiece, yet an unnoticed one, much like Van Gogh's paintings.

I-NetGraFX
09-04-2004, 04:52 PM
First of all thanks for all your comments and indeed very helpful critiques. :thumbsup:

Constructive critiques are very welcome! I've learned a lot in the meantime using this excellent forum! CONGRATS CGTALK!:applause:

@andreasrocha:



... The only thing that I think does not work well is the perspective of the two near statues (since the they were almost facing the original photo). Perhaps you could copy the two other statues in place of these and reconstruct (or "destruct") these copies. ...

Surely I think its not the best perspective match I tried to create. I decided very late to add those poles. I needed something heavy on the right side to balance the image.
Which other two statues do you mean? I think I've inserted them slightly to low, hence the perspective is not that correct . . .



... Perhaps a more panoramic frame would also improve the image. (but probably you are keeping this frame format for video...) ...

Thought about it!
@jussing:

... Its Abu Simbel, you said it your self! This was the intention of my matte painting!

@Skull Leader:



... I would like to know if you could not published this magnificent image in a bigger resolution (1024 x 864 or 1600 x 1200).
I would like to use this image as wallpaper for my desktop. ...


I thought I've posted it in a resolution of 1600x1200 ?! http://www.inetgrafx.at/CITY-OF-GODS-1600.jpg

... Feel free to use it as your wallpaper, its mine too ... :-)

@elektronaut:

congrats for the frontpage I've never got there before! Thanks, to you all!

@nendo_3d:



can we have a wirer of what u did in cinema 4d pls
its looks almost real. stunned i am lol

I'll keep you up to date.

It looks "almost real" because I overlayed photo references . . .

@gabio:

Surely an inspiration!

@Fetus 23:

... Is that a UFO or an blimp/airship in the sky? ... I painted it at last, it should be a blimp. :D

Somehow I got inspired of the mummy returns 2 movie.

While I looked at my pic for a longer time, I missed something in the sky!

@decembermoon & alaa ahmed:

:) Haha! Now, that are comments from the right place! Thanks, maybe I'll find a new job ;-)

@mr.wheels:

Thanks!

@konst:

.. have to agree with andreasrocha about the statuse...it is like they are looking at the wrong direction...I know, I'm a "perspective nut"! Gotta learn that! Usually I do 3D productions,

there I don't have to think about wrong perspective :-/

@Julez4001:

Thanks for your comment!

@Rizo:

... and its start to look like an "Escher" image... Huh, whats that? Did I missed something?

@Saku_seraph:



... seems to me more like a cut nīpaste picture where u have taken one peace from each picture and blended it together in PS. no offence meant. ...

cut'n paste . . . First I thought it will work via cut'n paste. Have you ever tried to work that way. I think you'll fail your desired goal with that way. The lighting and perspective in each photo varies, therefore painting is a must!

I switched endless times between Painter and Photoshop. Photoshop for layering and overlaying, Painter for painting obviously . . .

@Ufu'uk:

i'm going to Egypt this october i can't wait Wasn't there .... yet. Surely worth a trip!

@mhsf:

Hmmh ... ... Thanks!

@logotomie:

Like I said, I'll improve that in future. Thanks for your critique!

@Varsha:

... If this place is really out there, I am sure I have to make a visit and take a photograph of me standing there. Unfortunately, I shud be a CG character to be in this place. May be u can model me...

Ok, my next job ;-)

@jussing:

I was mistaken, it's Abu Simpel, lol. ... I mixed up all elements, so even I don't know which locations I used.

@michaeli:

Thanks

@Angelite_04:

At first I thought it was a 3D model. Do you have the animation that you did of the projection?The 3D model is just for the camera animation. I'll use it as base for a projection.

I'll keep you up to date!

@Squibbit:

TTThanks for your comment!

@SUN:

Hi!

@anuj2anand:

Surely I will!

@Saeed:

Thanks!

@MaRvl:

Can somebody PLEASE model this, i really want to see more of it... The mood is breath taking...

The only thing I would love to see better is the sense of scale... if you've been to the pyramids then you would know that a block is gigantic... and the torch in the entrance makes the pyramid look quite a bit smaller than it should be...


The torch has got the function to give a reference scale! Surely the pyramids are more bigger than shown!

It would be interesting to work this matte out in full 3D!

@tr1cky:

Whew! Now thats a post!

First of all thanks for your critique, which really helps me!



I guess at first I was going to mention something that bothered me a little, and it is this:
The side of the pyramid is completely black, which, although makes sense in the screenshot of the real thing that you posted (because of directed day-light), makes no sense at an evening/dawn setting, when the sun is coming down, and the light becomes more diffused. If you wanted this more realistic, an object of that size, would surely at least a little be lit on all sides. And this made me notice other things...

During progress I varied the luminance of the pyramid-side several times.

But somehow the contrast of the whole image leaked, while I enhanced the lighting to the sides.

Maybe you notice, the side on the top of the pyramid is slightly brightened up!

Thank you for that argument, I'll keep it in mind!

1: I can literally see the mountain range passing THROUGH the pyramid. Besides the obivious, there's a couple of problems with what you're trying to do: That mountain range is flat, as the mountains in the direct background are (no detail), but they are darker, which makes us think they're a lot closer. It seems to me that at least some detail should be seen in those mountains/hills. (I guess they aren't really mountains if the mountains in the far distance are also mountains, but these are presumably a lot closer because of the much more contrasted hue).


I noticed it later! It's something like the top of the cheops pyramid.
http://carnets.de.route.free.fr/Photos%20gf/Egypte/Gizeh2.jpg
Unfortunately the line follows the background line of the mountains. I'll correct it!

2: That pyramid, to the point of shading, is identical to the one that is in the direct foreground. In fact, all 3 of them are. This is not realistic, because atmosphere is not taken into account. And I have a general problem with how everything is lit. The pyramid in the foreground has a sharp yellowish highlight (from the sun I presume) at it's top (as do pyramids in the background), so I am wondering what exactly is causing the sun to affect it in such a sharp way, since most of the sky is quite bright (and not particularly a similar color). Furthermore, that obelisk on the left-most side, has no such highlight, although, to fit in with this scene, and to be realistic, it definitely should. (the pyramids behind it, which are smaller, have the highlight, and the pyramid in front of it, bigger, has the highlight, so it makes no sense why the obelisk does not). I assumed something like an near horizon to the left!
Maybe you've seen the effect in "the mummy returns II".
The actors fled from the rising sun. The pyramid was placed in some kind of oasis.
I think it could work, if hills or something like that are near enought to he pyramids!
I haven't shown the scene to the right :rolleyes:
I placed some highlights on the oblisk and considered them as "cheesy".
When I brighten up the obelisk, it looses the contrast to the background!
3: It seems to me that you just flipped the image you posted?
I flip the image several times to get rid of the monotone feeling of watching an image for hours!

When I flip an image it looks like a new one, I've never seen before.

The original pic is like I've posted!



4: Its harder to see in my smaller version, but I can literally see partially transparent rocks through the pillar/ruin.

They are painted in Painter 8!



So Question to you: To me, really, it seems like the only "matte" painting of this matte painting, is that little walkway in front of the pyramid and the small fire, and possibly the blimp (and probably some other small areas I did not notice). So is it worth classifying this as a matte painting, rather than just an assemblage and slight tweaking of elements (from the internet, at that) ? Is this what "matte painting" is? Either way, I think you were unsuccessful in seamlessly merging all your elements, but with a few small tweaks, it could work

I don't know if you've ever painted a projection matte with photoreferences or not.

The main work of it, is surely the match of the lighting and perspective. Starting off with the correct positioning / painting of the highlights.

The shadows of each accessoire have to be corrected. The daylight casts hard shadows, diffuse lighting needs soft shadows. Look at the statues for example.

Every transition I've painted manually in Painter.

I don't think I was that unsuccessful, when a "few small" tweaks would do the rest!

All Painter and Photoshop Layers together take a "few" 646 MB diskspace, without the reference material.

But maybe, it would be more interesting to hear that answer from some mattepainters like Dylan cole, Dusso or many more in production.



BTW I've checked out your site.
Somehow you've got that hr.giger-style well done! :thumbsup:

@jammin:

I think so!

@attune:

Thanks for your comment!

@deathblood:

....So I want to know the true facts.... As written above, I hope it answers your question!

Otherwise, please explain which true facts do you mean?!:shrug:

@alaa ahmed:

Me too!:)

@fahim:

tr1cky.. don't you have anything else to do?Hmmh, would be interesting to know ...





Thanks again for your help cgtalkers! :beer:
Critiques and comments are always welcome and
I'll try to reply them as soon as possible.

Thanks in advance,
Daniel

Ecleposs
09-04-2004, 08:15 PM
great work man.....:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

tr1cky
09-04-2004, 08:48 PM
Thank you for visiting my webpage :cool:

Granted there's a fair amount of work involved in matching all the elements together, as I understand, matte painting is a lot of pixel-pushing. In cinematic production, such a large cache of materials is rarely available and matte painters are only given a few elements to base their painting on, the rest has to come by hand. Which is why I was curious about your work, because it seemed most of the elements were not created by you. I would love to see what Dusso or Cole would say and what advice they could offer.

But hopefully I was helpful either way :)

deathblood
09-05-2004, 04:33 AM
I am sorry for my words .....I can not believe my eyes,so I doubt your painting...sorry!

I-NetGraFX
09-06-2004, 10:50 AM
Thanks for your helpful critiques and comments guys!

As you see I've updated the image.
I tweaked the lighting, corrected some things and painted in some more details.

Cheers, Daniel :arteest:

leigh
09-06-2004, 11:26 AM
Great work! It must have been a lot of fun putting this image together :)

The only crit I have is that personally I find the blue in the foreground to be a little too deep a shade of blue... I would have allowed a few other tones to creep in there a little :)

But other than that, lovely work!

Jnieuwland
09-14-2004, 10:37 PM
Hey Daniel,

Congrats on the award!I'm a big fan of matte paintings(hopefully post a few soon) and I must say you did a fine job on this one. I like the fall off of sunlight colour from the yellows to reds and the overall contrast. good use of photos too.

As a suggestion/critique, the foreground shadow colour on the ground looks a little too dark and purple (colourized). Perhaps some of those rocks could use a hit of the sky colour on the tops like you did with stones in the distance. Maybe a hint of vegetation colour too? I'm just being picky;)

Graphic_Pony
10-24-2004, 11:12 AM
Remarkable!

And I’m not just referring to the realism of your image. I mean it’s undeniable that the level of your technical skill is very high. But what impressed me the most is the way you chose to create a focal point of light at the top of the pyramid. Through surrounding natural darkness to the panicle of light. I love it! I just love it. Very Spiritual.

Goes to show that sometimes the simplest work is the most affective. Well done, keep’ em coming.

Alexander Layevsky
05-01-2005, 10:45 PM
This image not especially is pleasant to me. But I visited your site
http://www.inetgrafx.at/fset.php
and saw other good images.
Though your painting technique is good.

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