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mimo8
08-31-2004, 10:02 AM
... and didnt dare to ask.

as many of us I am expolring the mental ray features of maya 6 but so many of the new materials, lenses, phenomenons just are a big ? to me.
how do I use this shaders, where do I have to link them to so they work.

I want to use this thread to ask this basic MR questions here, perhaps it will give the one or the other "tutorial" on how to use a mib-shadow transperancy, a parti volume, or the contour shaders.

links to other threads or tutorial, or hijacking this thread by own questions is always welcome

rollmops
08-31-2004, 10:27 AM
Hi mimo8!

You're not alone feeling frustrated about MR!
There is a wall between developers and end-user.
The bridge between developpers and artist should be a clear, simple and ILLUSTRATED documentation. New versions keep coming and the doc stays so difficult to swallow!

Anyway some guys like jozvex :bowdown: http://www.jozvex.com/tutorials.html are building the missing bridge!

mimo8
08-31-2004, 10:27 AM
let me start with something very basic.
why should I use a mr-phong material instead of the maya phong
does it give me any more controll?
same with the mib-illum-lambert

mimo8
08-31-2004, 11:56 AM
Hi mimo8!

You're not alone feeling frustrated about MR!


thnx for your understanding words - its exactly what I mean.
you can perhaps look up technical descriptions of certain mr nodes, materials, lenses etc.
but there is no basic info that guides a graphic oriented artist through this pocess.

it starts with the installation of custom mr shaders and continues with the handeling of the shaders

thats what this thread is meant for ... ASKING BASIC MR QUESTIONS

for example one:
how to use the volumetric materials.
I once used a parti volume to create a fog that interacts with wpotlights.
but how to use the other two nodes the mib-ray-marcher and the mib-volume for?

orljustin
08-31-2004, 03:44 PM
Hey,

These tutorials are really helpful for the beginner. Thanks!

oj

Goon
08-31-2004, 10:54 PM
I like you, am a bit lost, but this has helped:

Quote by Francescaluce on Highend3d MR forum

I think it's really time to break up this trend.. why the fu*k someone should use up to six/five nodes.. to get a simple bump fx.. and also why should I use a shaders net that do not allow standard maya texture coordinates.. and maya file nodes... and you call this a 'quick guide to dgs bump mapping'.. bullshits.. dude.. with all the respect.

mentalimages base nodes.. are not really done to use them as highlevel shaders to get maya users to work.. they're just base shaders to get complex phenomenons without dev also standard projs techiniques or basic illumination models or what there's in, code examples some great tricks.. and so on.... I see a lot of ppz that waste a lot of time trying to do this things... and so they think.. -what the heck! mr is used to make the best featured films and vfx out there.. and I'm not able to apply a bump to a mat!!! ... nah.. c'mon.. wake up!!
I've to be a little strong coz there're ppz that seems they are 'proud' to use this shaders instead of others.. they believe that are more physical accurate or I donno faster than other nodes.. that's not.. they are more mr notes(and with the sources.. this is really their purpose).. than really production shaders.. I mean.. they work good.. but they're for mentalray in general.. and for sure not really for maya.. alias has ported all the maya mats to use with mr.. use them.. with m6.. you've anisotropics.. incredible fast blurred refrats/reflects.. full support for fluids.. the most user friendly volumetrics.. dof and lens shaders(!!).. to all the ppz that have problems with bumps from mibs.. the best thing you could have made.. is.. 'quick guide to avoid DGS, bumps and other unnecessary things.'.. in general things that are not fast, easy, reliable (I repeat.. I'm not speaking about these shaders.. just about their implementation in maya).. in cgi must be removed instantly.. cgi is all about complexity.. and how to manage that.. not only it's also all about fun(!).. do you've fun to use them(?!)... I donno guys.. discard mibs.. less than you're in front of a monitor.. just to pass your time instead to get something to work.

Splin
08-31-2004, 11:07 PM
for example one:
how to use the volumetric materials.
I once used a parti volume to create a fog that interacts with wpotlights.
but how to use the other two nodes the mib-ray-marcher and the mib-volume for?
About volume shaders:
http://www.motiondesign.biz/vol_start.html

and RayMarcher:
http://www.motiondesign.biz/vol_start.html

I cant wait when this guy will release his dvd, he really seems to know what he is doing. Good thread btw, time to get those ghosts out of the closet. Goon, can you please post also the link for that thread?

lazzhar
08-31-2004, 11:14 PM
Well said Francescaluce, cannot agree more.
Mimo, you're not obliged to used those shaders until feel that you need them, and I'm not sure if you will.
I've gon thoughout some tests with the mr shaders and it seems they are faster in rendereing than the others. But as someone told here, it comes from the fact that they are basic shaders and dont have too much parameters to evaluate so they the function wont need the extra time needed to calculate the Maya shaders.

Yes, if you need complete contron on your renders for specific reasons, go ahead and build your shaders using the basic mr nodes, but for now I dont see why bother.

Good luck.

BillSpradlin
09-01-2004, 12:10 AM
"I cant wait when this guy will release his dvd, he really seems to know what he is doing."

Ehh maybe you missed the other 3-4 threads about this motiondesign guy being a theif, stealing people's money and not releasing a DVD that was said to be released over a year ago, avoiding all contact via e-mail and basically running off with people's cash.

Splin
09-01-2004, 12:39 AM
"I cant wait when this guy will release his dvd, he really seems to know what he is doing."

Ehh maybe you missed the other 3-4 threads about this motiondesign guy being a theif, stealing people's money and not releasing a DVD that was said to be released over a year ago, avoiding all contact via e-mail and basically running off with people's cash.
thx :thumbsup:

mimo8
09-01-2004, 10:00 AM
thnx everybody for your comments, quotings and support.
I confess that I am one of the noobs who believed in mr like religion, and thought bout the mr-shaders as the only real way to create good scenes. for me it was not clear that the maya shaders are as good for mr and that there is only some that handle special mental ray situations (like the volumes or the contour shaders)

cg talk opened my eyes, showed me the way and made my life easier.
I was a mental fool, but now I see clear thou to the help of my brothers and sisters
cheers

(this confession doesnt mean that I will not come up with the next stupid mr-question some minutes later)

but honestly ... this info you gave me is really essential "you dont have to stick to the mr shaders to create good mr images, you dont have to cover every object in this great preview green to get pro results..." but it took me some month to find it out.
perhaps it is clear to francesca, jozvex and co, people who see what is going on in this shaders.

This is a basic info but its so hidden. I also think abbout all the other users who still wonder how to demystify all this wicked, undocumented shaders that come with the mr library. This is the biggest crit about mental ray and mayas "integration" of it. it is integrated, but only for users who bring allready a certain knowledge.

I really hope that mental ray will get easier, better documented, with costum shaders that are easier to install ...


I agree with the one who claimed that francesca, jozvex, bigmuh & Co should get a share of mayas income

thnx for your support

francescaluce
09-01-2004, 12:52 PM
http://www.uni-duesseldorf.de/URZ/hardware/parallel/local/xsi/XSI_html/files/mental_ray/shaders/shd-1_Base_Shaders.html


:)



ciao
francesca

Pixero
09-01-2004, 01:12 PM
Here are some links to sites with MR info:

http://www.uni-duesseldorf.de/URZ/hardware/parallel/local/softimage/Soft3D_html/mray/_mefirst.htm

http://www.anibbu.com/hwee/mentalray/

http://www.arts.arizona.edu/christensen/programming/mraynotes/index.html

http://www.nanomation.co.uk (http://www.nanomation.co.uk/)

http://www.wahn.demon.co.uk/ShaderWriting/Filmakademie/index.html

http://www.lamrug.org/

http://www.xsibase.com (http://www.xsibase.com/)

orljustin
09-01-2004, 02:12 PM
Hey,

I got all excited about the previously mentioned site, and then discovered he hadn't posted the hdri or gi or other tuts. Rats.

oj

Goon
09-01-2004, 04:54 PM
Goon, can you please post also the link for that thread?
http://www.highend3d.com/boards/showflat.php?Cat=1,2&Board=MayaMR&Number=166385&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

mimo8
09-02-2004, 11:16 AM
thnx all of you for your replies and links - some of them go rather deep, but slowly I get an idea of mr and how to use it

another basic question
what is that "emit subsurface" option that I find in the atttributes of a light (spot or point)
dont see any changes turning it on - also not using a sss-mat

Dan Wade
09-02-2004, 12:12 PM
Can someone tell me if maya can output floating point images? Im using Maya 6 with MR 3.3. It has output for a number of supported formats, including even .HDR, but it only seems to be within the standard 16.7 million colours. Do you have to get the standalone Mental Ray to output FP images?

Cheers,
Dan.

grafix
09-02-2004, 01:24 PM
Dan, go to the framebuffer attributes in mentalray render globals. Under "data type" you will find all sorts of FP image formats.

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