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ant-
08-28-2004, 06:40 PM
After the Shake buyout by Apple, there was a lot of specualtion as to if this would be succesful for Apple, Now it has become clear apple certainly wanted shake to cut up and resell as an AE killer in the form of Motion. However I have not heard much about the impact this has had on the core Shake users. As shake is now only available on linux to existing licence holders (or am i wrong?) Are post houses buying the Macs? or moving on to other programs in general?

I'm happy using shake on either platform and don't know anything to rival it. But I wonder what apple has instore for future versions too, Is it going to be further cut up into varying levels, or are they going to finally make undo work in an intuative way! :D

Are Shake users at the crest of hill on the way down, or just about to take off?

Also this place is very quiet, any other shake forums around?

beaker
08-28-2004, 10:07 PM
Motion isn't a total AE killer. AE does a lot more than just motion graphics. Many places use it for film and television compositing. Shake and Motion together are a AE killer though.

As for the linux comment. Not to be an asshole, but did you take 5 seconds and goto apple's site to see if you can buy shake on linux?
http://www.apple.com/shake/specs.html
Shake has always been availible on linux and irix for anyone to buy. They even lowered the price on it and told us at the users group meeting that they have no plans to get rid of it and are expanding their support of linux. At the users group meeting at siggraph the entire room was stuffed. The last meeting in LA in 2001(at the same place as this years) barely filled 1/4th the room and there were 10,000 more people at that conference.

beaker
08-28-2004, 10:10 PM
Oh, for other forums, the best one is highend3d.com. They also have a shake listserve there.

ant-
08-28-2004, 11:22 PM
Yes sorry, I am wrong, somebody did tell me that apple were only suppling linux licences of 3.5 to replace previous licences on linux. As you can't buy it from the apple store i assumed this was right, but it seems that you just have to go through a reseller.

I'm happy to hear that anyway, to kill off thart market would be suicide, but you raise the point about motion not quite being a AE killer, i havn't seen it used yet myself, but it sounds like they are going for that audiance, and if motion isn't quite AE then this brings me back to the pure speculation that apple may release a mid range product. more than motion, but not quite shake. Although i think apple are stepping dangerously on adobe's feet. (the two companies havn't been that friendly for the last few years)

SalaTar
08-29-2004, 01:18 AM
"Shake and Motion together are a AE killer though."
As Apple adds more shake code to Motion ,an Apple OS only product that ties into the "Pro" thinking.
I bet you see less support for Shake and more "new things in Motion".
Whan the new Qtime ties better to "Pro" thinking why should Apple support Shake anymore.
Shake is at its Pinnacle and upstarts that do just as well are out.

Youll see a shift soon

beaker
08-29-2004, 01:28 AM
Have you even used Motion? Motion is linear based, it is by no way going to replace Shake as FCP would just because it has compositing capabilities. The products are made to complement each other(Apple makes the most amount of money that way). I could never see myself doing compositing for film in Motion. Going back to a linear format would be moving backwards for compositing, not forwards. I could definatly see features of motion in shake future though. Using more of the gpu to do your compositing is very smart and will lead to huge increases in speed.

SalaTar
08-29-2004, 01:32 AM
Beaker you miss that apple is a "hardware company" not a "software company"

If they can force you to the "Pro" in anyway, they are going to do so

beaker
08-29-2004, 01:51 AM
No, they are a "Solutions" Company :)

I don't know why you think they would possibly try to move people from shake to motion. Thats just retarded thinking. Right tool for the right job. They are complementary products, not a replacement for the other. Just wait for Shake 4 and you will see what I mean.

SalaTar
08-29-2004, 01:59 AM
I find it funny,
That even a Mod has a "die hard" Thought process.
Yes I have used Nuke, yes I have used DF, yes I have used Shake, Yes I have used C3, Yes I have Used Motion, Yes I have used Halo, yes I have used Avid, Yes I have used Leitch, Yes I have used Adobe.. You want me to go on?
Being so mind dead in thought will make you a Dinosoar fairly fast.
Use what suits you and if your good at it it will get you a job

beaker
08-29-2004, 03:13 AM
I don't have a "die hard" attitude. I use everything, all the stuff you named I have used on different jobs, so what, who cares? What is it with all this my dick is bigger than yours crap. I was just dissagreeing with your comment about apple ditching shake for motion. It would be retarded of apple to do that and bad for business. Everyone kept saying that apple was going to dump the linux version and it never happend. I see this as just more apple naysayers who are still bitter about not having shake on windows anymore 3 years after the fact. Get over it.

Ross Forster
08-29-2004, 07:21 AM
You can also find a Shake forum over at www.vfxtalk.com (http://www.vfxtalk.com)

As for Shake & Motion, I dont see Apple ditching support for one app over another, both apps will simply expand and offer the tools and workflow one needs for the job, be it Film or Broadcast.

ant-
08-29-2004, 10:03 AM
Running Shake into the ground can't be in Apple's future, they are too proud of it. They love to go on about Shake being so widly used on the big name films. I am just guessing that sooner or later we see a more intermediate product, aimed directly at the AE user. I think the Shake and AE markets are slightly too far apart, at least in the small studio market.

I am in no doubt that there will be a Shake 4, speculation is that Apple has been working on Motion and have put Shake on the backburner of development, now that Motion is released we may see more features creeping into Shake. GPU usuage is certainly something that would be nice, but Apple would have to implement this into the linux versions aswell.

I also wonder if Apple will try and unify the UI, hopefully without a too drastic change.

Thankyou for forum links, i hadn't noticed the vfxtalk shake forum

alexx
08-30-2004, 01:05 PM
i think i put that question in here:
any of you used new versions of digital fusion?
i used it quite a long time ago and it came quite close to the shake workflow.
what i read abou the new features in there (just reading) it sounds like they should be quite even.. or am i completely wrong with that?

oh and about the thread itself: where would be the problem "if" apple would stop shake after getting all its nice stuff over to another app?
that would be nothing else but going from softimage to XSI or power animator to maya -- that is all just evolution

cheers

alexx *theNeverGettingOverItter* ;)

westiemad
08-30-2004, 02:40 PM
i've recently been given the oppurtunity to use shake, although it was on windows, and I really liked it, maybe cause they use the word noodle, ok some of the tools are a bit slow, but its a nifty prog, I'm just starting out in compositing as I realise its pretty much an essential part of the 3d process. I wish they'd bring back support for windows, although I suppose linux is a free download, but its having to learn that instead. Oh well, so much to learn.

ant-
08-30-2004, 08:56 PM
where would be the problem "if" apple would stop shake after getting all its nice stuff over to another app?
i think thats not the problem, they are not similar programs and almost certainly will never merge, I was simply asking where people see Shake going, and how strong it currently is.

westiemad, i'm suprised you thought any of the tools are slow, shake seems to storm through most things you chuck at it. Apple better not ever change the quirky nature of the documentation:thumbsup:

westiemad
08-30-2004, 09:00 PM
i think it was some of the blur tools that were slow, i can't check at the moment :( , maybe I'm just impatient, but i've used combustion at school and I didn't really get on with it too much, guess its just more of a preferance.

alexx
08-31-2004, 07:48 AM
i think it was some of the blur tools that were slow, i can't check at the moment :( , maybe I'm just impatient, but i've used combustion at school and I didn't really get on with it too much, guess its just more of a preferance.
dont know if it got any faster in newer versions, but the radial blur is really slow (compared to 2.46, the blur tool from 5D (fusion in those days) is about 10 times faster i would say) :)

cheers

alexx

ant-
08-31-2004, 11:12 AM
ok radial blur is slow, if anyones ever used vegas's quick radial blur they will see a massive difference, even though it has far less control and quality.
A friend was doing a huge amount of iBlur once and complaining like mad that it was taking forever, until i told him to just switch to quick gaussian instead of circle. Often Shake has hidden (or non default) ways of doing things that are much quicker, I wouldn't be suprised if someone has already found a better way of radial blurring.

Aneks
09-02-2004, 11:51 PM
Alexx,

I'm using fusion at the moment, not by chice but by paid necessitiy. We are on ver 4.x and it aint all bad. In some ways it is very reminiscent of shake. Although I am only doing light duties on it at present it would seem to be a decent Windows substitute for shake at broadcast res ( i have no idead how well it would go with film !)

Really a lof of nice things about it !
Similar in most ways to shake, except you can undo !!! and roto shapes have key frames which are at least a little bit relavent. In terms of workflow and general 'nodality' it is not as free flowing and fluent as shake. Some things about it bug me, especially the way in which mattes/masks are stored on nodes kind of like afterFX, but for the most part its similar enough to pick up without too much of a learning curve.

Also v5, upcomming, has a full 3d workspace which puts it hard up against nuke for most drool worthy PC compositing feature set. A lot of folks here swear by fusion and I guess they know their stuff.

alexx
09-03-2004, 07:15 AM
aneks, thanks a lot for the infos..

undo! the killer feature :)

cheers

alexx

Hugh
09-06-2004, 10:29 AM
There's some info on DF v5 floating round somewhere (I'm sure it's gettable at from the eyeon website) which shows some of their new stuff...

Little but important things, like:
Diagonal connection lines (noodles, if I'm allowed to call them that)
Mask inputs (so they don't have to be defined in the node itself)

It looks like v5 has some very cool stuff indeed

alexx
09-06-2004, 10:43 AM
looks indeed promising.. especially the acsii file format is a big plus for scripted pipelines..

cheers

alexx

Hugh
09-06-2004, 10:46 AM
This: http://www.eyeonline.com/Web/EyeonWeb/Products/teasers/fusion5/teaser_fusion5.aspx is the page I was talking about if anyone's interested....

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