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infin8
08-26-2004, 12:47 AM
Someone told me that XSI wasn't any good for design visualization (buildings and interiors)!! I am new to XSI and think this is bull#$%. But I don't have anything to back me up. Does anyone have any good links or examples of such?

bravmm
08-26-2004, 08:18 AM
It is true Softimage is used more in other areas than design viz, but that it is not capabale is not entirely true. You could say XSI is lacking in some features, "needed" to quickly set up architectural stuff or something like that. 3DSMAX has more features build in for that kind of stuff, but that's no wonder with AutoCAD and VIZ looking around the corner. Just have a look at the Mental Ray website and so a serach on the web. You will find really nice renderings of design viz done with XSI and MR.

cheers,

rob

Iysun
08-26-2004, 09:43 AM
its not as easy with XSI as it would be with other apps, mainly because the nurbs toolset is not the greatest.

although it is very possible to make anything you wanted

mr Bob
08-26-2004, 12:34 PM
it is very true xsi is not as good as others have mentioned , it all boils down to the right tool for the right job , xsi is a tool and thats how you should look at it . 99% of architectural practices / vis studios use max , its cheap , it works with autocad dwg file format and its flexible.
xsi needs support for autocad layers , b splines , and support for file formats like dwg , then it might compete with max for vis work. xsi might get theses features in the future and in the mean time you could alwyas model in max then bring into xsi , but then you might run into difficulties when your client keeps adding / making changes to the plans etc ..

B

preludian
08-26-2004, 03:28 PM
??!!?? I've changed from 3dviz (ok the old v3) to cinema and LW for archviz, I only do archviz and I never had any problems with my tools. Now I'll do it with XSI, it has everything I need, cloning, instancing, parametrization off all elements, GI, FG, AO, passes, quickrender.........
Normally I do my modelling with Rhino3d and export to Cinema/LW (I changed to LW some time ago, because I preferd the look) where I make all texturing and lightning. My clients were always very happy with my work, but they never wanted ultra-photorealistic pictures, I know of no architect that wants such stuff, too many questions too soon, too much the client could pinpoint the architect afterwards ( in the picture it looked much nicer and so on). Of course for one click renderings you are better off with VRAy or Brazil, but there is really no reason you couldn't get what you want in a compatible time with XSI or LW.

Edit: I never use the cad-data from architects, they are simply not suited for 3d, I construct over them. Often I only have sketches, too.

Obizzz
08-26-2004, 09:15 PM
If you need to work straight from autocad data it might not be the best but otherwise I see no reason not to use it.

There's really no need to use the cad data anyway I don't think the visualization needs to be that accurate, just look at the drawing and take out the measurements you'll still get it within a few centimeters or so.

For product design a nurbs modeller might be better though (Rhino etc..)

infin8
08-26-2004, 11:28 PM
Thanks guys for your feedback. I'm stickin with XSI. Just going to have to make a badass rendering and show it off.


note for AnotherHell (http://www.cgtalk.com/member.php?u=28595): you got some nice stuff on your site; I couldn't download the vids though (my proxy rejects them) :(

Can anyone suggest a good place to get shaders and materials for design viz stuff in XSI?

thanks!

francescaluce
08-27-2004, 12:36 PM
??!!?? I've changed from 3dviz (ok the old v3) to cinema and LW for archviz, I only do archviz and I never had any problems with my tools. Now I'll do it with XSI, it has everything I need, cloning, instancing, parametrization off all elements, GI, FG, AO, passes, quickrender.........
Normally I do my modelling with Rhino3d and export to Cinema/LW (I changed to LW some time ago, because I preferd the look) where I make all texturing and lightning. My clients were always very happy with my work, but they never wanted ultra-photorealistic pictures, I know of no architect that wants such stuff, too many questions too soon, too much the client could pinpoint the architect afterwards ( in the picture it looked much nicer and so on). Of course for one click renderings you are better off with VRAy or Brazil, but there is really no reason you couldn't get what you want in a compatible time with XSI or LW.

Edit: I never use the cad-data from architects, they are simply not suited for 3d, I construct over them. Often I only have sketches, too.nice comment !!



ciao
francesca

preludian
08-27-2004, 07:47 PM
Thanks francesca, you make me blush :love: I rarely become so emotional about sw, but sometimes stupid statements make me mad :scream: ...

mr Bob
08-27-2004, 08:25 PM
mmm let me see if it's so easy using xsi for arch viz can u tell me why 99% of the firms /freelancers doing arch viz use max ? feel free to look at the gallery below ,its the biggest arch vis site i know of .

http://www.cgarchitect.com/gallery/galleryList.asp

if this young man wants to do this for a living i think he's best using max .


B

Obizzz
08-27-2004, 10:40 PM
Simple, discreet i part of autodesk and they make cad software and therefore attracts a lot of the people in that business.

I'd say the reason is marketing.

For the price of max you could get XSI foundations and Rhino and a few other apps and you'll have what you need for design visualisation IMO.

preludian
08-28-2004, 12:32 AM
Because Max has an immense user base, it was the first windows 3d soft if I'm not wrong.
Because autodesk lets everyone think that if you do archviz you need max/viz autocad<=>max
Because you HAVE nice renderers available (Lightscape even integrated, Vray, Brazil, FinalkRendering? from Cebas...).
Because many kiddies started with max ( you know what I mean...)
Because if nobody knows 3d soft they often still know max (marketing)
Because if 1% from max users do superb renderings and 10% of e.g. XSI users do great renderings you still have the impression it's all max. Everybody forgets that the 1% or 10% are artists, they would even make great renderings with Imagine under AmigaOs.
Because I don't know why people would want to buy max AND e.g. VRAY if for this price they could have sooo much more and better IMHO (Hype??).

Do you know how many max owner only own their soft but can hardly work with it?
Do you know how many companies worldwide besides those represented at CGArch work with other 3dsoft?

The questions should be with what 3dsoft do you feel comfortbale, and how much are you willing to pay? Like I said before, besides marketing and hype most 3dsoft is powefull but are you good enough? If not, if you don't perseveire you can buy XSI 20 or max 100 or maya 40 or LW 10 you won't get very far.

Besides that XSI 4.0 rulez and I love it :buttrock:

PS: Nice article at cgarch btw.

http://www.cgarchitect.com/upclose/article1_JK.asp

See what I mean with Imagine ;)

Iysun
08-28-2004, 05:23 AM
note for AnotherHell (http://www.cgtalk.com/member.php?u=28595): you got some nice stuff on your site; I couldn't download the vids though (my proxy rejects them) :(
thanks :)
give me an email if you want to see them and ill give you ftp access if that will work for ya
johnny@anotherhell.com

infin8
08-28-2004, 06:19 AM
for preludian (http://www.cgtalk.com/member.php?u=34444): great point! I couldn't agree with you more. It is the artist and personal talent that creates the art (with whatever tool he has). But the potential and usefulness of the tools is what can greatly speed and assist the artist in creating his art. And yes, you could have the greatest tools in the world and a knuckle-headed craftsman would make a mess.

But because I am so new to XSI, and spinning with the excitement of learning a sophisticated tool, it is easy to drink up and believe what (an otherwise skilled 3D artist) tells one about not being able to do design viz. But I'll stick to it and blow through the frustration that always seems to cloud one when too much is being jammed into your head at one time.

for AnotherHell: Thanks! My email address is on it's way. I really appreciate your willness to help another. :)

Life Style
08-28-2004, 07:27 AM
Getting back to the start of the discussion, as a user of max for mainly architecture and xsi on the side, I'll try to give some reasons why a person would say XSI is bad for design vis.

1. Mental Ray is a quality renderer, but for Design Viz, global illumination/radiosity and speed are most important. VRAY is a brilliant renderer for architecture, and not currently available for anything but Max
2. Lack of support, with XSI you have to work a bit harder when dealing with dwg or DXF formats, this makes life easier on Max when working closely with AutoCAD
3. Softimage doesn't seem to really care about the architectural community; as on the website there really isn't much mention of design vis, which can scare some people away when they're looking into it. (Discreet shows off its architectural "stars", especially KD Lab, who are IMO the best arch vis out there)

But, what it really comes down to is the artist and how they use the tools. I like the workflow of max because for me it is intuitive for the design process and can easily take a project from 3D concepts to final images. But some things are easier to do in XSI and combine later, it helps to know as many tools as possible.

If you're main focus is making final design visualizations than XSI is a more than capable tool (along with Max, Cinema 4D, Lightwave . . .), but it is your job to know the software and maximive your workflow. Then you can get the job done and start making some art.

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