What is the best book for maya?

[bigfatMELon]

IMO, none. If you are serious about learning Maya, the Gnomon videos and as much free time as you can scrape up for your own experimentation is worth 10 times the value of any current book offerings. I've said it before but I think it's worth repeating: I'd rather have just one Gnomon tape than every Maya book in existance. No disrespect to book authors but I find the video/dvd watch me method of learning simply blows the book method away.

Of course, the Gnomon stuff is far more expensive than most books, but... there you have it.

If there is an exception to this, it must be the Alias courseware that was generated for their previously overpriced class system.

-jl

PS: No, I'm not affiliated with the Gnomon school. Though, I should be, having purchased so much of their stuff. :)

[svenip]

hi bfM. i said the same to some giys in the general discussion section about good books for maya. but i was flogged for this and no one really believed me.

i totally agree with you that there isn't really a good book out there. except the maya online help everyone has some disadvantages. i also believe that video or dvd now is the best medium to transport good informations for that kind of stuff. don't know the gnomon ones, but we bought two alias video's here and they are really worth the money

[ReD_MeRkIn]

Hey Melon, do you work at EA Redwood shores?

[bigfatMELon]

Nope. I'm currently planting the deepest roots I can muster at Blizzard North. They'll never get rid of me! :twisted:

And to Sven. It's unfortunate that you were flogged as I agree with you that video/DVD is IT for 3D education. Perhaps only a live person is better. Hell, even this forum is better than books. Why buy what you can get for free?

If you've never seen the gnomon stuff, it's worth checking out via one of their freebie downloads at gnomononline. Alex kows the app cold and is a good speaker. Not too many "uuuuhhhhhh's" and he is very thorough.

-jl

[svenip]

i totally agree with you. but sometimes the teacher can't teach the people this complexity :) i just got an email from one of the students of our university where i am teaching maya. they had to model and texture a hand. i lost my eyesight on this shader :) not to speak from the model :)

here is a little image from that :)

please kids, don't do that at home if your parents are not at home to care for you :thumbsup:

[TuLe]

Just Maya i was (still are!) a MAx user, but i aways had a crush on MAYA for it appeal as the most used Hollywood CG maker on the planet!

Well i said to myself "i gotta learn Maya now!" so i went to a book store a bought a very nice book that i think u might try!

Its MAYA 4 Fundamentals by New Riders!

here's the web site:
http://www.newriders.com/

Take a look the book is very good, with detailed tutors and it comes with a cdrom with videos fallowing the exercices of the book, very sweet!

[Raji]

I would have to disagree with TuLe... sorry :p

The reason for that (although this doesn't apply to everyone) is that there is nothing in the Maya 4 Fundamentals about rigging. This is a must for anyone who wants to do some character work. If you don't want to do any character animation, then that book would be just great i guess.

Right now, I am actually borrowing Mastering Maya 3 from a coworker. I'm not crazy about it, but it teaches me the basics about _EVERYTHING_! It has modeling for NURBS, Polygons and SubDs, then texturing, lighting, MEL scripting, animation and rigging. It really covers every aspect of Maya and no it doesn't just take a glance at every aspect. It does go over everything thoroughly.

As for the Gnomon tapes... well I can't afford them right now. I'd love to own some of them (or maybe the whole character set!:drool: ) but it's just way out of my reach right now. I still need a RAM upgrade!!!

I do have a question for those of you who know more about the Gnomon tapes. From the free tutorials they show in their online section, they always seem to tackle extremely specific topics. I don't see any "skinning for beginners" tutorials or anything like that.

Do their videos cover the basics? As a beginner in Maya, I'm just concerned that I'll end up with expensive videos that tackle super-duper complex stuff and that they will ignore the basic issues of setting up a solid skeleton for example.

Any comments on that anyone?

Raji

[boomji]

hey sven,
u got flogged...ahahahahhhhhahahahahah.so...are your bums healing yettt!!! ;).seriously, but i hope you stuck with what you said till the very last ummm... post.
i think the order of learning maya is something like this(get your whips ready)
1)videos/dvd's(these dudes are here to stay) %
2)book(buy it,gloss through it at supa fast speed,stop)%
3)forums.(daily dose)
4)go back to books,only this time you wont sleep on them...they WILL begin to make sense.%
5)read the help file(actually alias should call this a refrence for looking up funny terms they come up with).%

key %(25 hours practise).
oh by the way i'll give the devil it's due...3dbuzz forums are pretty cool to.
b

[svenip]

boomji : my butt is healing :)

Originally posted by Raji


As for the Gnomon tapes... well I can't afford them right now. I'd love to own some of them (or maybe the whole character set!:drool: ) but it's just way out of my reach right now. I still need a RAM upgrade!!!

I


for me a good tut is "specific". it doesn't help you if they slip over a topic just like skinning or character setup in 10 pages of a book. this will not be a real good help for you. it will give you an impression (can also be a wrong one, i saw a few). if you get specific tuts you will more see where the depth problems are lyin in this topic and what you really have to care for. and every specific tut for a problem can probably help you with other problems to solve. always remember that you can combine methods to get problems solved that you would never thought before that thy can be solved with the specific tut you saw.

[wedge]

melon: i thought blizzard was a 3dsmax studio?

[Grooveholmes]

If your a beginner to maya check out The Art Of Maya. Probly the best one out there for mayan noobs. It gives a good quick visual overview of just about all the features and functions of maya without having to wade through a bunch of crap. Be warned that it really just scratches the surface on most topics. But if you're using that book along with the Help Files as well as forums like these you'll be on your way in no time.
For your money that's going to be the best way to go. Then move on to the bigger books and video's in the future.

:hmm: I wish they would have had that book when I picked up maya.

Oh yeah, and you can get it directly from these guys.. Crazy Canucks (http://www.aliaswavefront.com/en/news/home.shtml)

[Raji]

svenip, i understand what you're saying and I agree. My problem is that often I won't make the connection between a specific scabbard constraint tutorial (like the free one they have online at gnomon) and setting up a solid solution for feet constraints etc. I usually prefer for someone to address a popular issue directly than indirectly. Maybe it's just me though... :)

Still I would most probably buy a gnomon tape if i could. I bought some videos to Animation: Master a long time ago and often got the "aahhhh" effect. It was far more useful than anything else.

But again, very expensive stuff... so maybe later.

Thanks a lot for your input svenip. By the way, where do you teach?

Raji

[svenip]

just at my university :)

don't get the example wrong. i'm maybe not the best then it comes to teaching :hmm: but the firl who has done that didn't came to my lessons, so it's her problem :)

i can really understand you and what you say, but keep in mind, just the fact that you're able to do this (reuse methods for other purposses and create new ones) makes you a real good artist (at least for all the technical guys :)

so keep on playing

btw : has someone watched the movies to mel robot wars . way cool :thumbsup: maybe we can setup a match here. i will modell my war robot tomorrow

[Raji]

good point about problem solving stuff. I am making progress... slowly but surely. As a matter of fact, I'd like to post a character model that I'm working on pretty soon. I want to finish modeling him completely first though. I hope to hear your comments when I'm done.

:D

Thanks again.

Raji

[Grooveholmes]

Haven't watched too many of the movies yet, but i got the coursenotes on a disk from this years masterclasses.

Something like this seems like a great jumping off point for learning mel. 'Cause it gives you definate goals to work towards and problems to solve.


Not that I would know! I'm just an :arteest: Mel Illiterate. Heh heh.

[JUST MAYA]

thank all .:thumbsup:

i wiil buy his videos but it is very $$$$$$$$$$$$



what about the tutorial with maya it is good>:rolleyes:


is iam in a wrong way to buy his videos .:annoyed: :rolleyes:

[bigfatMELon]

Originally posted by wgeddes
melon: i thought blizzard was a 3dsmax studio?

Yep, they were. ;)

-jl

[TuLe]

I would have to disagree with TuLe... sorry


No problem friend! is a free world after all!
hehehehe :cool:

I wanna know more about thoes Gnomon DVD's and videos, can someone pointme to their website?

Thankx

[bigfatMELon]

http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/

-jl

[Roger Eberhart]

Originally posted by bigfatMELon


Yep, they were. ;)

-jl

Some of us still are.....grumble, grumble. :thumbsdow

I'm so fed up with 3DS Max right now.

[bigfatMELon]

Oops! Looks like we have a few stragglers.

-jl

[slayerment]

hey melon, how long are the gnomon videos?

[CitizenVertex]

Each Gnomon Workshop vid is approximately 2 Hours, and I guarantee you will learn more from any one 2 hour Gnomon than from a 700 page Maya book. The videos are great. Worth every penny of what they are asking.

They are somewhat task specific, however they tend to cover every option in a tool along the way. For instance in The first IK video they cover the joint tools in their entirety leaving nothing out, and showing you a few very clever tricks that are applicable to Maya as a whole.

I've seen a bunch of them, my favorites are:

Intro to Maya (it's a must for newbies and even some experienced users. He dispells some common misunderstandings about general workflow. Stuff I didn't know even after having used Maya for almost a year. It totally opened the door for me and changed the way of thinking several years of Max had ingrained in me)

The Dynamics videos are great particularly the one's dealing with Rigid Bodies and Particles.

The Rigging Videos. The first rigging video covering Skeleton Setup is a must see.

The videos are very quickly paced. Really a crash course but a very very good one.

I need to get another job so I can afford to buy some more of these videos. They're great, can't say enough about them.

[show]

heh

im dying to get my hands on some gnomon dvds now.

Hopefully they will bring out the entire set on dvd soon cause id hate to waste all that money on VHS.

[ReD_MeRkIn]

they are on dvd.
They cost a bit more, but they've got some scene files etc in there.

[Raji]

yeah but i think show was saying that he wants to see every single one of their videos out on dvd instead of VHS. well at least I think so... :D

Raji

[slayerment]

ok so im a n00b to maya, which videos would u recommend?

[Raji]

good question. I think most people's responses will point to gnomon's videos. The question then becomes which one of them.

Well if you're a complete n00b :), then I would think that the Intro to Maya at Gnomon would be a great choice. I don't own any of the gnomon videos, but I think it would certainly be a great place to start.

Then you can either work your way down their list from there (modeling, then texturing, then rigging, etc.) or you can wait a while before buying any more tapes. I'm sure that with the knowledge you get from the Intro tape, you would be plenty familiar enough with Maya that you could just go online and learn from all the tutorials out there. Then depending on how confident you feel, you can either go back to the tapes or stay away from them.

The point I was trying to make in "staying away" from the tapes for a while is simply that as a newbie to Maya, it is harder to evaluate what you really need to learn through the tapes. This is especially true since the price of the tapes is so high... I for example don't feel I need any tapes on modeling with Polygons. I also feel like I can figure out texturing. Rigging however is something I'd rather learn through tapes.

Anyway, that's just my suggestion. I hope it made sense to you and that it was of some help. :bounce:

Raji

[slayerment]

ya thx for the response, i think im gonna go with the intro video and then see how it goes from there thx! oh and since i want to get good at organic modeling, if i were to get a modeling vid, would u recommend going straight to the organic vid, or starting w/ nurbs and w0rking my way there?
thx again

[killer]

I am sort of a noob, im getting used to Maya by now, what I would do is read the tutorials that come with it. Trust me on this, this may be boring as goddamn hell, but at least you get the basics of using maya. Go tothe help menu and select library, then from there, click on the link that says "Instant Maya". Once you have MASTARED that section, experiment until you get used to the interface, then from there, progess on to the link that says "Instand Maya Unlimited".

Once you have MASTERED those two, then start looking for tutorials that fit ur desire. For example, I am into RPG's and fantasy stuff, I started Maya 4 months ago and I still cant make a MEL script (im not bothering eaither, waste of time). Anyway, now that I have that experience, I can start understanding tutorials and such.

hope this helps ya.

see yaz bye :wavey:

[Raji]

i'm not really sure about that last question... i think there's enough basic reference out there to get you started on nurbs, so you could go straight to the organic modeling tapes, but again it's a matter of how comfortable you feel about skipping some tapes. And you have to continue to remember that I don't actually own any of their tapes! :) So i could be wrong...:scream:

Good luck.

Raji

[CitizenVertex]

As far as the Gnomon tapes go, your best bet for modeling is Polygon Modeling 1 and 2. They cover polygons and subdivision surfaces in detail. The other tapes, including the organic modeling tapes, all cover NURBS modeling which is a bit more complicated and not as flexible for character work. With Polygons and Subdivisions you can pretty much build anything you want.

[bigfatMELon]

Originally posted by slayerment
ok so im a n00b to maya, which videos would u recommend?

Easy. ALL of them. :)

-jl

[Raji]

Easy. ALL of them. :)
hehe yeah that's the best way to go. Apart from the fact that then, learning maya becomes almost as expensive as Maya itself! :scream: :scream: :scream:

lol

Raji

[slayerment]

thats fine w/ me. i do have a job where i make some money so i guess ill buy a new vid every 2 weeks from here on out. i just bought the introduction one.:buttrock:

[Raji]

lucky you! =)

enjoy the tapes!

[swag]

@svenip
i just got an email from one of the students of our university where i am teaching maya. they had to model and texture a hand. i lost my eyesight on this shader not to speak from the model

Hey sven sei nicht so hart mit dem girl so schlimm ist die Hand doch nicht (wenn es die erste ist) oder sollte das eine Menschenhand sein :) wie sieht es mit deinen DVD´s aus?

[ZeroNeuro]

You can get them all for 2150.00 at the moment. That's 22 DVDs and 14 VHS tapes. Over 70 hours of training. And I tell you, they are awesome. I suggest that teh Introducition to Maya video be bought if you are starting to learn. It is very valuable. :) http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/videos/ALL_BLE.html

BTW: MELon : Blizzard has been an inspiration to me for years. I recently made the move from Max to Maya and find that it is very, very rewarding. ;) Maybe you should do a little nudging at the Bliz Crew :D One thing that struck me in Warcraft 3 was the materials (shaders) used for the cloth. That was rocking,

Wished I was employed. Yet I am a simple freelancer with no formal education. Just an artist. *sigh*

(Working on my webpage at the moment so www.zeroneuro.com won't get you much. But I have some old stuff at http://zeroneuro.deviantart.com )

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