Above & Beyond - Vehicle - prayas

[prayas]

Didn't know one thing out of the rules give by lildragon.
I'd like to do some kind of postapo stuff. Are we allowed to do some kind of flying vehicle with an engine?
I would like to take an old engine and build my homemade flying device around this one.

What about that?

[Clanger]

I'm sure there's no problem with an engine.
What's postapo?

[prayas]

@clanger: post apocalyptic was to long to write.

Searching the web for some good reference photos of old airplane engines.

[prayas]

Ok been a bit lazy with the concept.

Post it today. Also started modelling.

Got my plan figured out now. Making somekind of waterplane.
Inspired a bit by waterworld and Madmax.

Also got some ideas for setting. It will be a pirate base somewhere in the ocean. Some place like a huge junkyard.

Anyway here is the pic.

[erilaz]

What package are you using? That render looks really nice!

Hmmm... I wonder what bizzare abomination would occur if you actually DID cross waterworld with madmax? An anti hero called Kel Gibner perhaps? Scary!:surprised

[prayas]

May be this would happen. I don't know really about the character right now. Maybe do 2 characters on this vehicle.

The crossing of MM and Waterworld would not be that bizzare.
Said using this movies for inspiration.

BTW tool is my C4D 7.303
Just forgot to post it.

P..:

[prayas]

added some details. Still not finished the concept.
Think now i'm turning more to waterworld.

The place for the pilote is set in the right position.
I will now figure out a position for his gunmen right behind the pilot.

P..:

[prayas]

Finally here is a quick concept of my idea! Trying just to paint out the thoughts. Not looking homemade right now. This will be the next step.

Searching for good material on plane engines.

PLZ comment on this sketch as you like. Rip it if you want. Learning painter right now for using it in quick drawing. Also not very familiar with my tablet.

p..:

[Elf]

good design:thumbsup:

[prayas]

Sorry if this is going to sound someway hard, but i'm doing these words right now.

@elf this was no post that is going to help to process of my design! maybe someday read some of the rules in this board.
I for myself like the design, but i know it's not very good or finished. Comments by users should critic or help the process.

Sorry if this sounds a bit unfriendly. It's meant this way.

P..:

[Elf]

im not much of a artist so i cant easily and readily come up with a technical critique not knowing the technacalities of 2d art(or 3d art for that matter), but i could say a critique on the design, so i said that i like the design which i do, and that means that for me you seem to be heading the right direction, so in a way i guess it is a critique and encouragement:p , but if you dont want me to say anything...:annoyed:

[prayas]

So now this is what i understand and what i meant by the last post.

THX

P..:

[Elf]

so what do you mean?:curious:

[prayas]

that i now understand why you posted "good design".
You told me that you won't critic the "art" in this but the fact that you like the design.

Thx that this is now clear.

[Goon]

It might help if you could do more than a profile sketch so we could se the entire thing. As for the plane its cool, but you have several custom molded pieces (i.e. the frame on the bubble canopy) that would not be found in a garage. I assume you will dirty it up so it looks home grown but right now it is a bulky/stylized production plane.

[Elf]

happy we cleared that up prayas:p

[tascitus]

right now it looks like it came out of a factory. try madmaxing it out a bit.

[prayas]

@elf finished discussion. happy challenging

@tacitus yeah i'm going to madmax it. It's just easier for me to make first a model with clear proportions like this one and to give my idea the shape and then think about detail solutions.

Work on the concept is nearly done now. I'm going to find the right material compositions for madmaxwaterworlplane.

The base should be an old airplane engine, thats right. The wings will not be that solid than they are right now, more made of small metal sheets and bolts. The waterlandinggear (BTW how is it called in english) will be made of wooden kanu(right word for small boat?).

Only thing i didn't really figured out is the gunmen seat. Like to have it as it was in old B-17 or so. But don't really know how to translate into madmaxwaterworldstyle.

Anyway here is the finished shape.
P..:

www.prayorpanic.com

[pit]

Nice start!!!! I like the idea of the small boats a lot! My only crit would be that the entire plane looks soft, but on the other hand i think it´s to early to crit at all- so i´ll be patient and wait for ur next move!

[prayas]

thx pit

Getting some kind of junkjardstyle now. Made a small sketch for the gun turret and modeled the gun for the turret.

Hope that this sketch is going a bit better in the guidelines.

P..:

[erilaz]

Hmmm... still doesn't seem homemade yet. I know it's early days, so all I can say is it's looking really nice! I like the detail you're putting into the gun.:thumbsup:

[Goon]

I want a homemade machine gun! seen some of those primitive wooden gun things and they are possible but they are very crude in form and propably wouldnt have evenly drilled cooling holes in teh barrel sleeve.

[prayas]

Thx for the comments! I think it know the problems with this model and the rules by now.

@Goon I think drilled holes in a gunbarrel wouldn't be so difficult to make at home. Will try it tonight *LOL*.
Thinking about making it cooler. Was just a 2 minute model.

@Hellrender I know it's a damn production racer worked a bit on this. Made now wooden wings.

See the ideas. More thing tonight.
P..:

[DXtreme]

while i was sitting beside ya as you start with it...i wondered myself wether you finish this challenge thing....btw you know it....
i like the concept for so far and i think it comes out the right way (wooden wings and so on...)
looks mor like madmaxwaterworldpostapocalyptic...
you know....
will visit again to see how it comes up!

[OZ]

Good stuff here!I Like ur plane!MOre MOre!:scream:

[prayas]

said today 'cause i got to work and there hasn't been so much time. Worked a bit on the trash-style. Maybe i get this look before challenge is over. put this little gun in to get the position and deleted the gunners place. Will rework this second seat maybe tomorrow. Like to make something out of wood for little gunnerboy.

If anybody likes to comment on "this is a plane, looking factory made" i like to say, it needs to fly cause i'm putting 2 bad pirate guys in there. How can the do trouble in the sky if they don't get up there. got it?

anyway here is my update.

[DXtreme]

hi..nice to see something!
i like the things you've done!
looks more and more trashy.....
the gunman has to stand outside behind the gunturret?!
(without window and that stuff...coohuuul!...must be a crazy guy ;-)...)
but..man i don't like the last part of the back..(seitenruder!)
think you should adapt it better to the trashy style!

[derwolpertinger]

really nice update here! :thumbsup: the new look is way better-well actually it does fit in the rules by now.:p i'll have a look at your thread, so go on, go on, go on.....!!!!:D

[robertp]

great job. I really enjoy the double wings. Just wondering about the person shooting that gun in the back? Will they hit the rudder or not? hum....

Keep it going. What program you using? Very nice renders.

Rob:D

[otacon]

Really awesome man.:thumbsup: I like the machine gun in the back seat....nice touch.;)

[tubby]

hey nice modelling but i agree that it looks too much like an ordinary airplane. its a really nice airplane but it doesnt look homemade. i think the fact that your gonna have two pirates in it shouldn't be an reason to make it look "factory made". if you look around at the other challengers you can see how something can look like it can fly and yet still look like its made of scrap parts.get it?

[Hunkasaurus]

i dont know...i agree with tubby, but that is easily fixable....just add all the stuff to make it look homemade
otherwise....damn nice model so far :buttrock:

[DXtreme]

i think it looks homemade guys...look at the wings..they made from wood..guess wich material the two pirates have at home a lots of?!
yes wood........
and why can't a homemade plane looks like an factory plane?
what about that the pirates want to be very realistic?! (only my opinion)
i think it started to get better and better!
...
....
.....
maybe prayas,you could change the landing gears a little bit in this direction,so that it looks like made from wood,or from another mat from the pirates garage!.....

[derwolpertinger]

maybe you should kill the symmetrical feeling of that plane. just make the left wing look different from the other by placing the wooden planks differently or add some more to one side. and add some parts hanging down from the wing. make it look less stable. well, just suggestions to improve the home made look. don't get me wrong, i like it very much like it is right now but just to get that certain feeling to it ya know... :)

[prayas]

thx for all the pretty good ideas. will work hard on this.
Right know started the first character. He will be the gunman and mechanic of this plane. really rough work right now so i'm going to post it later on the show. Got now time during the week.
need to work on other s***. Got to earn some money.

Will kick that gun in the back and replace it by an other weapon.
I think i'll make a harpoon for bringing up other planes or airships?

Thats all for now.

@wolpertinger right you got me. I'm working a lot with symetry objects right now. It's easier and faster at this stage of the model. Will change them later. Also thought about making the upper and lower wing some totally different design.

@robertp will correct this after i made the harpoon. You're right in this point it's to close now.

@tubby you're right. I started the different direction this time. Made the shape of an airplane i believe it would fly and then trash out that design.

P..:

www.prayorpanic.com

[prayas]

Ok anyone be afraid of my pirates. The got a new toy.
Just did a little sketch while sitting in the car. The harpoon
powered by a fire extinguisher.

So anybody around be warned. The guys goin' for trouble.

[pit]

Suits the overall model much better!! I´m scared!! Good decision to go for another gadget - expecting the real deal soon!

[prayas]

ok the sketch was up and i started modeling. Here is the harpoon.
Not finished - needs some rope and the mount on the plane.
The powersystem is nearly finished.

I think many of us are becoming inventors these days. Not only modelers.

P...

[prayas]

BTW also worked on an engine for my plane. Not finished the exhaust system on it but the main engine is done i think.

Comment on it if you like.

P..:

[prayas]

last one for saturday i think.
Worked out the gunner seat. It' s made from a wooden barrel.
Hope that fits in the model. Will rework the body of the plane maybe tomorrow if i got the the time.

If there is somebody who can help me with ideas for the characters? I don't really know how they should look.
Started one but will not show the cr*p here.

Got to learn that character thing by now.

P..:

[prayas]

the image?
sorry!
here it is.

[Fetus23]

Hello prayas! You have a really nice flying machine going here. Dont stop with all the little important details. I really dig the barral gun thingy. :thumbsup:

[DXtreme]

ma man that's f****** cool!
never mind that the concept that comes out at tha "chaosWG" would turn that crazy!
i like the details you added.....the harpoon (it's cool to sit in cars with a peperoni on tha roof,ha?!)
the engine is good i think, but could you post a closer shot (here or at your talk)
would be nice to see enginedetails!
but all over it looks great!
really great!

(man i've no time to finish the Vision Xtreme....until tuesday i've to work........)
so hope i can see updates......

[prayas]

thanks for the comments.

@fetus23 there will be more and more details during challenge.
Got some on hand right now but didn't model them out. Sunday was computerfree day till now.

@dxtreme haha peperoni-racing is always fun and sometimes inspiring. The engine has a good detail level from a far point but not for closer looks. Will post a shot later anyway.

P..: (charactermodelinglearningrightnow)

[tascitus]

this is comming along great! the gas powered harpoon it just a great addition.

[SEL]

thus far, yours is one of my favorites!! I like the overal look of things, keep posting for im curious how this thing is going to come out. I dig the render of the plane, water, and background also. This is going to be somthing to keepan eye on...

shaun
:beer:

[prayas]

Here is the engine shot for DXtreme. As is said before you can see this engine can not be used for detail shots.

[prayas]

I told you times before i do my first atempts in character modeling during this challenge. I started with the pilot. Made the head after looking on many tutorials and after checkeing how others worked it out.

He has no body yet. Will do that when i figured out how the muscle definition in cinema works best.

Critic it please.

P..:

[prayas]

@theSel & tacitus sorry i didn't thank for your post. So for now THX:..:

Made a simple shot of Pete the pilot in his little maschine.
Tell me if you like it.

P..:

[DXtreme]

hey man.......i think it's going right!
he's alittle bit thin,but i know you'll fix it!
..the engine....looks good and the details are good,man ...even when the engine is not seen in that close way,you see all the details...that's it for such details!
as much as needed and as less as possible!
so go on ... nice thing!

(waiting that my box finishes rendering...then updating my thread!...c ya)

[prayas]

The detail level on the engine is quiet small because of renderspeed. Will make this up later. the actuall times are about 3 to 5 min. That's cool for previews but not for the final image.

The body is to thin? Hmm. He is the pilot. The gunner will be a fat guy. The pilot will only be a shorty.

Need to work on the body now.

P..:

[prayas]

It's really calm around here?
Nobody likes or dislikes my first character. Is he that bad?

I'm learning that whole character thing right now.
Not working with any references 'cause don't like to have him look like a real man. More comic touch.

Got two big problems beside some prportion problems.
No idea how to model a cool ear and someway i can't figure out that hand thing.

Anyway here is my update.

P..:

[pit]

Hey Prayas - not bad for a first attempt. You have to be careful that the guy doesn´t get to blocky (eckig) though. How do you model -> box, polys or ?! Could u post a wire eventually - low poly - no sub D. Easier to tell what to do then.
c ya

[prayas]

Yeah right he is Mr. Box 2002 right now. worked a bit on this but not enough i think.

Post a wireframe.

P..:

[prayas]

And for that ear the problems are not solved. I post a small close up. Make your comments.

If anyone can give an advice? Would be great.

P..:

[derwolpertinger]

great progress here prayas!:eek: been away from home a few days and now i can see that sweet stuff! really love your style. but as pit said the character looks too eckig. :) but as far as the legs are going to be inside the plane and can't be seen then you shouldn't change them anymore.

[prayas]

Right that was my first thought. But then a friend gave the idea to me to make full charies. For working on poses and making other scenes using them. So i will do them full.

Also been thinking of reworking the body of the plane again to get a even more trashy look. This will include the front parts around the pilot seat. Maybe this will be the point where to see also his legs.

P..:

[Ech0]

for the pic with the piolt and the plane what program are you using to render your images ???

[prayas]

Ok echo we have already 4 pages but why not read the thread.

Said it before in this one. Cinema4D is the one i can work best with. Learned some Basics in 3DS4 on DOS years ago then did nothing for some years and then came over Cinema4D.

P..:

[erilaz]

You say you're only LEARNING to do characters? In my opinion you're there!!:D I'm not sure how you model in Cinema4D, but I can post up a wireframe of a hand I did a while ago if you're having trouble.

This scene keeps getting better and better!:thumbsup:

[prayas]

@ erilaz thanks for the help! Images? plz do post them or send to me find mail adress on www.prayorpanic.com on the bottom of that page.

for the scene.
"This scene keeps getting better and better!"

I'm working on something bigger. post a first shot of the perfect victim for my pirates! nothing detailed just an idea.

P..: rip that concept if you like.

[prayas]

Just another angle. Making a transport airship right now i think. Not really shure about the number of pirate planes in the final shot but i think 2 are enough. Started this ship to get away from the character thing for a few hours. Really hard to do characters. Thumbs up for everybody who made it.

The front deck of the airship will be for the crew. The back part is for cargo. Made it a little bit like a ship 'cause setting is something like "waterworld". No land in sight. Just planes over the water. And pirates!

P..: working on that ship right now and thinking of a full story.

[Aearon]

cool idea, coming along well, i really like that pirate idea :love:

:lightbulb about the transport ship: i think you should model the parts that would be seperate in reality (wings and so on) seperately, i think that's a better approach then modeling with one box

that's just personal preference of course, but i think it makes more sense when building non-organic models and it gives you more control

go your way though, the result is what counts :)

[prayas]

@ fist thanks for that comment. Just made those pics to show up the general idea for the final shot. Will make more details on the ship.

For now i'm working on "Fat Mike" the second character for the plane. The gunmen if you remember. Made the head 3 days ago. Had no time to work further.

Will post more of him after the weekend. 'cause weekend=girlfriend. Ya know tha problem with girlfriends and CG.

P..:

[prayas]

Made a second shot for comparission with the first character.

PLZ comment if you like.

[DXtreme]

.....no....wich problems with girlfriends and cg????
;-)))

as for your second character...i think this will come up as good as the first, but at this moment it's hard to imagine how he would look like,o.k. he will be fat,i guess!
go on would be great!

[prayas]

Made some little progress on the Mike character. He now has his own helmet. Hope that this render show a little more and is not that dark than the other ones.

P..:

[derwolpertinger]

damn-that looks amazing prayas! :thumbsup: just make the lips a tiny bit thicker.

btw. i know your prob with cg and girlfriend too good! :D

[prayas]

Made a small update for the composition shot. If anybody likes to critic do so.

P..:

@derwolpertinger It's not a problem just some ..... Hmmm it is sometimes a problem.

[erilaz]

Coming along exceptionally well prayas!
I still haven't found that good hand I did (must be at work somewhere!!) Anybody else wanna help prayas with this? Oh, and ignore the hands I've done in my thread, because they're supposed to be cartoony, and you seem to be going for a more realistic look.

Nice smoke. Looks a bit uniform at this stage. You might want to streak it up a bit, throw in some windy elements etc.

Hey, are you going to do wavey water things underneath? Or will this be high in the sky?

More! More!:bounce: :D

[prayas]

@erilaz Thx at first. don't hurry with that hand trying to do my own 'cause of that little learning effect. For the smoke it just a try. The color is to light and it is looking to uniform right now.
Will work on this for the final image. Made this just for fun right now.

the characters won't be that realistic. Just a little bit of human proportions not more. Will make them a mixture between cartoon and real. hmm don't know. think this will happen because of my lack in character modeling skillz.

For the greengreyish thing. this should be water. Just did no work on it. Simple standard water shader of cinema. Used only for having something as a ground plane.

I think i will gor for the airship shot for the final. Will look better than a flight over plain water.

Any other ideas?

p..:

[thewheels]

Sorry. Just a thought, but with these flat wings the plane will not fly.
I reccomend this site:http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/bga.html . Is the NASA's beginner's guide for aerodynamics.

Look this pic:

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/Images/geom.gif


Regards
TW

[derwolpertinger]

hey lookin cool!

so ich muss dir das jetzt auf deutsch schreiben da mir das uaf englisch zu kompliziert ist. :D also diese gekreuzten balke am äusseren ende der flügel müssten noch an den flügeln irgendwie befestigt werden, vielleicht mit nägel und/oder seilen. das wär dann besser denk ich. :)

[prayas]

@ thewheels Sorry for the flat wings and your tip on NASA site. I think i know how a wing profile should look. Please show me how to make them out of wood bolts ant some other crap? It's not my intention on this model to make something for perfect artistic flights. BTW will post a profile image for you later. The wings are not flat right now.

@ wolpi (der name ist lang und umständlich zu schreiben)

Thank for the idea. Didn't work on this yet. Will make something different on the wings. Need to do a profile like on that NASA site 'cause need to do this for my pirates. They are to dumb to do it on there own.**********

P..:

[DXtreme]

yo da hat er recht der wolpertinger!.......
aber ich denke alles in allem hat uns der jute prayas mal wieder an die wand gespielt!
mich zumindest...ich hab zwar nich "mitgespielt" aber trotzdem,hätte es bestimmt nicht zu solch einem guten ergebnis gebracht...zumal meine modellingkünste noch nicht so gut sind! (ich kann ja nur autos bauen!)


sorry guys for this little german roman!
what did i say: i agreed with derwolpertinger that the things between the wings should put to the wings by nails or something like that!
and i think prayas did a very great job! for so far!

[prayas]

Da danke ich dann auch mal auf deustch.

Will work on this parts of the plane later. For now i got an update of mike the gunmen. Made some pants for him and a helmet. For the boots they are the same for the pilot. Didn't have more time right now for changing this. Will happen later. Not really shurew how to rig characters. I think this will be the next point to learn.

For now i'll leave you with this little update.

P..:

[prayas]

whats up? nobody replies on my character. and i thought he is good. Maybe you first want to see hands? I'll see what i can do tonight. Will work hard on it.

P..:

[sanciok]

damn good job there!!!!
The character is a bit squared, but u're there!!!!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[adr]

i thing that the shoe need some tweaking too

[pit]

hi Prayas - could u post another angle - it´s hard to tell, but i think he needs a bigger belly. Looks a little flat there, when compared to the volume of his head. But WOW u cought up pretty fast with the characters - do another 5 and they´ll be kick ass!!

[prayas]

At first THX for the post. Worked a bit on the character.

@sanciok yeah thats my big problem for now. Will work on this.

@adr the boots are on temporary. Will make some different boots for him. 'cause right now the boots are the same as the one for the pilot.

@pit I think this will take some more time. Maybe 10 days LOL.
Can post a front view for you to see some proportions.

Look made some really crapy hands. Think got the proportions now but not finished them.

P..: Comment if you like

[sanciok]

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=169133#post169133

check this!!

and... (off topic) this one....

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18524

[derwolpertinger]

looks great prayas, just make sure to add some folds and irregularity to his panties. :)

[prayas]

THX for the comments. Yep need to work on those pants. Will do that. Also have seen that his thumbs need some work.
Will add also some pocket to his pants and some tools inside this pockets.

Right now i'm reworking the first character a bit to make him fit to the size and the style of Mike the mechanic.

P..:

[prayas]

back again! Did some work on the plane! Not much to comment from my side! But if you like do so!

[derwolpertinger]

hey already thought you got lost somewhere. :D nice to see you back again. lookin good so far except for the reflection on the plane. it is to strong and hard. i'd suggest to make it blurry and a bit less reflecting as far as this is supposed to be some old material that the plane is made of.

[prayas]

@derwolpertinger
No not lost out there! Just working! No online time during the weekend! Need some real work! Will search this week to get some job in Berlin!
there is no reflection rigth now in the scene! The ugly reflective looking things are in fact low radiosity settings! Changed this by doubling the rendertime!

Nobody wants to comment on my changes on that plane?

[iC4]

the last picture reminds me on indiana jones ;)

looking cool so far :thumbsup:

[prayas]

so here i'm back with some update and the story on my little pirates.

There are alltogether 3 pirates on a small island. Most of their time they travel around on the ocean a rip of other ships and airships.

Mike and Pete are traveling in a nearly homemade airplane.
Hunting airships and robbing people all the day.

The third character is living on a small balloon draging a boat around for charrying the goods home that the other two robb from their victims.


Here are the first images of the balloon!

Comment on this one!
Will post more images during the night.

p..:

[prayas]

F*** the image! Here it is!

[prayas]

spamming with images tonight

[prayas]

here is a detailshot of the plane! Made a new weapon to play with!

P..:

[prayas]

ok i realized that i'm no good storytella but if someone would give critics on that it would further develop my ideas! Maybe! I don't know!

If nobody unterstood what i said then plz drop a line and i'm going to clear things!

P..:

[derwolpertinger]

well, i like your concept on this very much, cool idea. :thumbsup: the weapon looks good, too. so ..... sorry, but no crits yet. :D just go on. i think this will turn out really good!

[prayas]

ok i did some composing work!
The swimming homebase for my pirates no slowly takes
a form! A small boat! Some platforms! Maybe a real cool place to live for a pirate!

PS reworked! Just wanted to do that again!
PLZ forgive

P..:
COMMENTS????

[derwolpertinger]

hey cool. are you goin' to give these pirates some sort of house, too? made of some wooden planks, that'd be great! (und ein bisschen treibgut würd ich noch ins wasser werfen :))

[prayas]

@wolpi Thx for the nice words! They will have a real nice living place down there! Maybe not a real house but somekind of this!
Driftwood will also be there!

P..:
saturdaynot3ddayforme - saturdaypartydayforme

[DXtreme]

you crazy party animal...prayas!
my box is rendering my new logo animation..made it for the promotion animation of the VX

but thats boring...
looking at your thread, i must say awesome what you create there in the little dark and well provided room....
i like the idea of the home of the three guys...must be funny there!

so man for me it's not partytime...must work tomorow but will check back for updates!!!

[prayas]

AHHHH I see a deadline comin' over very fast! I think i will on a final composition now. Any famous last ideas for the pirates?

Need to finish it this week. Need time for other jobs!
Need a real job!

P..:

[DXtreme]

...finish it ....search for a real job.....haahaa wise words ha?!
anyway,as for me i think they're o.k.
now make the final composition and get ready for the final shot!

[prayas]

THX for the wise words! Gonna give you a kick when i'm back in Berlin!

For the image! I think i get closer to what i want to reach!

Here is a small update!

P..:

[DXtreme]

yeah prayas i think you're right!
go on....

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