Character: Swamp Spider

[Frank Dodd]

I quite like the concept on this one its quite original, the model is quite close to the concept but I think that it is missing some important features: The chest is too rounded and is smaller than the drawing, the shoulders are much flatter too and the tail is too short. I think it would be nice to include the short arms at the base of the creature too.

There also appears to be a lot of wasted polygons in this model I think, the horns and the arms appear to have lots of geometry where smoothing groups would prove just as effective.

This looks like a good model it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

[DannyDreams]

The artwork and model are solid but as the character design goes it seems like it could use some work. Give it massive and longer legs like a spiders to give more of a dramatic and more threatening feel. Cause the arms and legs are your character just seems out of place and almost akward.

[Loophole]

Thanks for your replies guys. I've made some changes to the model, most noticeably I've added those little nubby legs, reshaped the chest, and cut down the polys. I probably shouldn't admit this, but I've cut a total of 2,000 polys out from the original. Ouch. I feel much better about the model now. If there are any specific areas that still need skimming please let me know. What do you think of the changes?

Frank: Thanks, its nice to hear that a concept is original. Keep giving me advice, you were spot on with your first crits

DannyDreams: I'm working on a version with some massive arms for comparison. You correctly assumed my motive of making a threatening creature, so if something like that enhances it I'll be all for it. I do have to hesitate simply because elongated legs on a creature with so much more body mass than a real spider might make it difficult to move. I'm going to give it a try and maybe i'll end up with a compromise of some sort.

Here's the new model:
http://csce.unl.edu/~criley/Characters/Spider/Images/Large/Spider_082104.jpg
and wireframe:
http://csce.unl.edu/~criley/Characters/Spider/Images/Large/Spider_082104_wire.jpg

[ironikart]

I love the concept and I think you've worked it into a model really well. You could save some polys on those teeth by using alpha maps though, and the neck looks like it could loose a few as well. Nice amount of detail for 2500 though!

[GradiusCancer]

I really love the concept and the side profile of this model. However, I feel the front profile and details could use a lot of work. The mouth is HUGE, open it up more and let us know it can take big chucks of our flesh to make it appear more menacing. Also, the neck is quite skinny, I doubt this creature could swallow any big bite and doesn't have an chewing teeth so it has to swallow big bites. The mouth is also completely unseen from the side view. Seems like the front arms should be positioned more in front of the creature than to the side. It's very low to the ground and doens't need a wide base for balance. Could be a real creepy critter and I'm interested to see what the texture does for this. Keep it up!

[the rookie]

The concept drawing is nice, I think you should have went with trantula fangs and give the 3D design more dynamics, in 3d you can stretch it a bit, exaggerate you design, the mouth doens't seem practical or believeable, I like to see you spice this up a bit more

[Joe Bloggs]

You know the spikes it has for hands? I really think they should be curved. At least a little. Like most creatures in nature, claws are curved so that it can "hook" onto things, climb up ledges, etc. But in this case, the creature would only be able to jab at its prey... it would not be able to effectively swipe at something from the side or climb up rocks very well.

[Loophole]

Thanks again for all the comments. I want to stay true to my original vision, but I also want to make a strong unique character. Its proving to be difficult deciding what works for me and what doesn't.

ironikart: thanks for the advice, I've cut out the poly teeth and I'm attempting to do the alpha map thing. I'm really struggling with it in Maya though, causes all sorts of viewport problems. I've read about other people with similar problems but can't seem to fix it. any suggestions??

GradiusCancer: I think its pretty obvious that I focused on the side profile in the concept and as you pointed out, the front is suffering because of it. I'm working on some things and hopefully the texture will provide some of the details. I enlarged the neck and moved the arms forward and I think it helps, although I haven't tried moving them to the front, which is what you were suggesting. I think its movement will also help some of the creepiness.

the rookie: I've done a sketch with some fangs, I'll post it if youre interested, I think it looks fine but I actually don't want this to look too much like a spider. I know you guys don't like the mouth much, I guess I like it cause its bizarre. Youre right though, it might not be too practical. I'll post a render showing what it looks like open, maybe that'll help.

Joe: I've curved the peg legs very slightly, and I like it. I'll be honest though, the jab attack is the main attack i've always envisioned, stabbin at fish and stuff.

I'll post the updates soon, still wrestling with the transparency. I want to be on textures next week and I have zero experience so I hope you guys are ready for that.

-Colin

[thebug40]

Interesting concept and reading through many of the reviews i think they are spot on. I do like the mouth even though most dont. But its not "right" yet. I dont know how to describe it but it needs something. Try playing with head size or teeth size or something. Not the greatest suggestions but maybe they will trigger something.

Another thing i noticed was the front two arms and shoulders. In your original concept sketch the creature is more upright (almost bipedal); in your models though he is in a much flatter stance. Try to decide how the creature is going to run, will he skitter along using his front arms to drag him quickly forward like in the sketch, or is he going to be more spider like in his movement, which would follow the models. The sketch has him arching his torso upwards I personally like the way he looks in the sketch, more of a human with an attached creature body.

Coming to the arms; the arms should be much closer into the body instead of flaired out almost to the sides. I envision him moving his arms and shoulders more of like a piston to move forward. Try placing the front arms in line with the back arms but keeping them the same length. This would jut out the shoulder and back muscles. Also i agree with joe, the front arms could use a slight curve to them, i was thinking more along the lines of a human upper arm connected to a scythe for the lower portion.

I hope these suggestions make sense, and wish you the best of luck in honing this creature.


adio

[Joe Bloggs]

looking at the wires, I see little to no curvature... i may be wrong

first impression for me was... the spike hands seemed unnatural... but it is okay the way it is..

If you're going for a slight curvature, I would suggest making it a tad more obvious.

[Frank Dodd]

Great update I think the changes you have made to the style and shape are really improved it and brought it more into line with the origonal concept image. I'm not too sure about the alterations you have made to the polygon density but I rarely advise people to fiddle with that twice I will leave it to someone else :)

Great update and looking forward to seeing it textured.

[Loophole]

Ok guys, here is the current model.

Joe Bloggs: Sorry, I may have been misleading. I was saying in my previous post that I had curved the peg legs, but I hadn't posted the updated image cause i was still trying to figure out the transparency stuff. So here is the actual model with the curved spikes, i think it makes it look nastier, thanks for the advice.

Frank Dodd: Come on man, don't hold out me now. I won't take offense. I'm trying to learn what sets a modeler apart from a good modeler and I'll work on it until i'm the latter. So feel free to critique as much as is necessary.

I've layed out the UVs, what is the preferred method for getting assistance for that? Post the UV snapshot or the model with one of those colored box maps? I think I may have some distortion problems and more than likely I'll have seam issues.

http://csce.unl.edu/~criley/Characters/Spider/Images/Large/Spider_082904.jpg

and wireframe:

http://csce.unl.edu/~criley/Characters/Spider/Images/Large/Spider_082904_wire.jpg
-Colin

[Frank Dodd]

No its just that I am no games modelling expert and end up regurgitating the wise words of learned people that have posted in other threads. In particular was thinking about the spiders web effect in the geometry of your origonal post (no pun intended) however you have corrected this in your last posting so that is irrelevant. In all looking at the wire in your last post you have done a very good job of optimising the geometry. For the UV I think a wire over texture would be best as you will see in your UV Edit Window.

[Joe Bloggs]

love it

looks much better now....

not to nitpick, but don't spiders have 8 legs? I think it's still fair to call it a "swamp spider" in its current state, though.

EDIT-

Here's one thing I notice... the neck... it's quite long. It looks like a human who has devolved or mutated into this beast. Which might make sense. but otherwise, if it's not from a human, then you may want to consider making it look more insect like (like a slug, if anything) by retracting the neck, if not completely then half way at least.

...though, it does look fine with a long, stretchy neck. But just looking at it out of context (ie. no background story or world from which it comes) I would think it was originally human because it has the neck and head shaped more like a primate/mammal than an insect.

I would also add that spiders, because they trap their prey and then suck its blood, don't need long necks. They do have the multiple eyes though, which helps with perihperal vision, making up for having no neck, i guess...

[thebug40]

Interesting edit.

I award you mucho points for pairing down and thinning out the body. It looks awesome how angular and svelt it became. Great Great Job. Might want to put some more angles and sharp edges to define the front torso a bit more, but that can probably be taken care of with the map.

I still have issues with the arms and shoulder area, and this might come down to different ideas, so as always take witha grain of salt. In looking at your last two images side by side i like the first one better, BUT thats before i realized that the viewing angle was differenent. Sooooo.... i think what i like is the way that the shoulder blades look like they are bunching up and into the back more in the first one. Id like to see if you can exagerate this effect a little more. Also the shoulder position doesnt look like its changed much. Try making the front arms more like a praying mantis; where the arms attatch almost directly perpendicular to the body instead of parallel like in a human, that would give you more of a piston motion movement that i mentioned before.


Hopefully this makes sense, and i wish you happy modeling.

PS any chance of getting a sneak peak of the textures :)

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