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i-d
08-19-2004, 09:43 PM
Well here it is for starters:

fast_SSS
great shader it was build with production in mind
I beleive it can be a solid skin shader, lots off room
for adding your nodes, mappable ambient, are you kidding me
md_sss is going in that slot as off now.
Fast, should I mention it, at least in test scenes.

i-d
08-19-2004, 10:08 PM
misss_physical

I didnt mean to show you my milk but here it is.
Settings in a demo scene didnt work at all for me.
I had to lower my transmission way down, under the .1,
point light didnt work too good either.
Photon energy increase helped some and light tweaking.
You'll now what I'm talking about when you see the tutorials
for standalone. I must say this is a pleasent surprise.
We are having a mr shader release from alias (mental) and its
very well documented, even more.

spacemunky
08-19-2004, 10:13 PM
hey man..the dragon looks great...do you think you could post your.mb file with the different setups...I have been playing with the same file and I would love to see what you have been doing to get such great results. Thanks in advance

i-d
08-19-2004, 10:39 PM
Dragon test file is 20Mb so I wont post.

It was just playing with some settings, its not very
clear to me also, only major thing I really changed
in this tests is lighting, strength of point lights in
scene, and some sss colors and radiuses.

SorinLupu
08-19-2004, 11:16 PM
great shader.
i play little whit them and look great.
thank Paolo Berto

onlooker
08-20-2004, 12:08 AM
Those look great! I wasn't expecting such quality from the stock Alias SSS shader implement until I looked at some of the pictures at the alias site, and in the docs. It's looking really good so far.
Paolo knows what he's doing big time. I have his DVD's. I hope he comes out with another one soon.

Good Job so far. Keep this thread alive. :thumbsup:

Cat-Ham
08-20-2004, 02:56 AM
Wow, realy a nice shader http://www.catham.hpg.ig.com.br/testSSS_004.png

Its my test .

i-d
08-20-2004, 05:11 PM
misss_fast_skin.

Is this some shader or what?
I've been using it with photon emission and
works great, only one base point light.
Bump combiner on top, photon shader misss_fast_skin,
surface shader slot in bump combiner also to misss_fast_skin.
I had some weird behaviour with built in bump of sss shader,
so bump combiner was good solution, thanks francesca.
Checkout the cornell girl

Dr. Ira Kane
08-20-2004, 05:39 PM
Hey guys, just one question, can it be rendered in reasonable time ? i mean how much time took the dragon to render ?

i-d
08-20-2004, 06:19 PM
All renders are reasonably fast,
dragon test especially because there
was no gi in the scene (5 min. or less for final render)
Milk is physical scene, caustics, gi and sss together
can slow things down a bit.
Skin test is more of a mix, without physical shader but
with photon and sss skin shader.
It is not slow at all, 15 min. at max for 600x cornell girl.

Dr. Ira Kane
08-20-2004, 07:36 PM
5 min for this dragon sounds great to me, i have to check this out :D

SorinLupu
08-20-2004, 08:19 PM
look great your corner girl, i-d
keep going http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

adsky2
08-20-2004, 09:04 PM
Wow!!!where To Get This Shader?!?!?!

Dr. Ira Kane
08-20-2004, 09:15 PM
just log in to alias site , it's in the download section.

Bonedaddy
08-20-2004, 09:30 PM
After seeing those results, I was moved to find these sss plugins.
So I went to the Alias website, searched for it, found this:

http://www.alias.com/eng/community/downloads/subsurface_scattering_mi_plugin/index.jhtml

...which ends up being a dead link.

I tried a thread a couple days back that points to the same page, which redirects me to a "page missing" message.

Is anyone else getting this?

Dr. Ira Kane
08-20-2004, 09:52 PM
That's weird, i downloaded this but now it looks like it's gone. It was all platform package about 20 mb archive, maybe they're preparing the site, don't know ?

SorinLupu
08-21-2004, 12:59 AM
hy guys

here a very quick test.
Only a light and IBL.
http://mayasorin.idilis.ro/test.jpg

great shader. :applause:

pdelirium
08-21-2004, 01:54 AM
Does anyone have any idea how to create this mentarayTexture node that you're supposed to plug in to the misss_fast_simple_maya shader? I played around with the dragon for a while (which worked fine for me) and decided to try to make a scene from scratch but the mentalrayTexture node is nowhere to be found. There doesn't appear to be any entry for it in the .mi file the sss package came with.

EDIT: I figured it out... you just need to click the button next to the slot in the attribute editor and it creates the node automatically.

Bonedaddy
08-21-2004, 05:30 AM
Can someone post these shaders online? I am vexed to no end that Alias seems to have taken them down, especially seeing the results now.

MunCHeR
08-21-2004, 07:25 AM
I downloaded it a day ago no probs, link is dead for me too, are there any "legal" issues uploading it elsewhere?

MunCH

Dr. Ira Kane
08-21-2004, 08:53 AM
I think it would be ok to upload it somewhere, it shouldn't be illegal i mean they did give it for free, now the link is broken (don't know but they may have some mess with the site, the membership system)

adsky2
08-21-2004, 09:06 AM
UPLOAD THEM FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!
I can't wait to have this shader!!!
please.................................

SorinLupu
08-21-2004, 06:13 PM
hey okitsa
here a screenshot from my hypershade
http://mayasorin.idilis.ro/hypershade.jpg

tuddel
08-21-2004, 06:33 PM
i got the shader from this link
http://aliaswavefront.topdownloads.com/pub/bws/bws_79/gmk_maya6_sss_mi_plugin.zip
HOPE its works for you :)

SorinLupu
08-22-2004, 01:59 AM
Hello again!

I make some tests and work fine.
I connect this time a misss_lambert_gamma to base shader
look result

Make eny body else tests whit this shader?

http://mayasorin.idilis.ro/test_2.jpg

Dr. Ira Kane
08-22-2004, 07:19 AM
tuddel (http://www.cgtalk.com/member.php?u=26957), great the link works! thanks.

Briareos
08-26-2004, 07:14 AM
has miss_occlusion been excluded from the lastest release? I cant find any trace of it and I know some people have the misss package that includes it.

anyway, I cant get misss_fast to work at all, the physical works, but is too slow, if i load up the dragon scene it just renders opaque. quadruple double checked the install, im sure its in right, i wonder whats wrong? any of you have to edit stuff to make it work normally?

any insight appreciated :D

RenderPimp
08-26-2004, 09:57 AM
i get the exact same problem, the fast sss does not work but the physical sss does. even when opening the dragon scene with no changes whatsoever it does not come anywhere close to anyhting that looks like the picture that came with it.

this must be why alias recalled the release on their site, there must be problems with it they are fixing

mattwood
08-26-2004, 10:05 AM
anyway, I cant get misss_fast to work at all, the physical works, but is too slow, if i load up the dragon scene it just renders opaque. quadruple double checked the install, im sure its in right, i wonder whats wrong? any of you have to edit stuff to make it work normally?

any insight appreciated :D
It seems the 'write lightmap' part isn't working. I just get a 'file error' and MR aborts if I change the filename to anything other that the default Unix pathname. (I'm on Win 2K). If I use the default name it just renders opaque.

I'm not sure we should be bitching about it yet though - if Alias hasn't announced it then maybe we shouldn't have it at all. Could be a beta or anything...

Briareos
08-26-2004, 07:38 PM
I'm not sure we should be bitching about it yet though - if Alias hasn't announced it then maybe we shouldn't have it at all. Could be a beta or anything... Its actually on the main Bonus Tools page, if you have a community login at alias.com

Im pretty sure its offical, its got a direct link to download and a synapsis with all platforms supported.

Many places are already using it in production. But as far as I know, all the users I've talked with are using the initial release, which includes miss_simple_occlusion node and seems to, well... WORK

francescaluce
08-26-2004, 08:00 PM
the fast sss does not work but the physical sss does. even when opening the dragon scene with no changes whatsoever .... wake.up.. read the docs.. and you'll see you have to change something to get it working.





ciao
francesca

Briareos
08-26-2004, 08:30 PM
well what is it then.

MunCHeR
08-27-2004, 10:25 AM
Maybe this is what francesaluce is taking about: straight from the docs:

misss_lightmap_write

This is the lightmapping shader. Using it is required for the fast subsurface scattering to work [2] (file:///F:/ToBurn/CGSTUFF/maya/MentalRay/gmk_maya6_sss_mi_plugin/sss_bonusTool/doc/node31.html#FOOTNOTE2). It creates a lightmap and stores the front and back surfaces, their depth, and irradiant light intensities in one or more specially formatted lightmaps. Two modes of behavior are supported:


first time I have only opened the docs once, so this is a best guess


MunCH

stephen_T
08-27-2004, 07:41 PM
i use misss_fast_shader and add the misss_fast_lmap_maya in light map shader channel.but i cant write the lmap,is it casue it cant do the sss?? thx

Flinch
08-28-2004, 08:00 PM
... try changing the Image Name of the "mentalrayTexture1" - node ...

RenderPimp
08-29-2004, 10:15 AM
sorry bout my earlier more ignorant post, i was quite tired :shrug:

but, after i got it working, i messed around with it some more. The more I use them the more I like them. Heres a really quicky thrown together render I did comparing a regular surface to a tweaked misss_fast_skin_maya (dont mind the crappyness of the non s3 one, like i said, thrown together)

http://originfx.com/custom/exa1.jpg
http://originfx.com/custom/exa.jpg

now which of those looks better? :thumbsup:

stephen_T
08-29-2004, 05:34 PM
oh yes, the doc said we need have a writable color 32 bit lightmap,i input this "sourceimage\aaa.iff" but the output window warning:

while defining texture "mentalrayTexture2": failed to open texture file {TEXS}/sourceimages/abc.iff
IMG 0.0 error 101003: {TEXS}/sourceimages/abc.iff: can't open file for reading
API 0.0 error 301090: undefined ctexture symbol "mentalrayTexture2"
API 0.0 error 301105: undefined color texture "mentalrayTexture2"

is it mean iff cant support 32 bit or i did something wrong?

SorinLupu
08-29-2004, 09:25 PM
Hey boys read these http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/deal.gif

Unlike the physical implementation, these shaders do not require neither photon tracing (global illumination, caustics) or ray tracing to be enabled.

In Maya 6.0 prior to use the misss_fast* shaders we MUST operate a change in the regular version of Maya 6.0, and exactly in the following MEL attribute editor template file:

Alias/maya6.0/scripts/AETemplates/AEmentalrayTextureTemplate.mel


By default Maya marks writable texture as 'local' (present on disk), this produces a problem with the lightmap generation and re-use since the lightmap is yet not local before being generated, hence Mayatomr cannot find it.

This is what you need to do to make the shader work fine in Maya 6.0:

original version (shipped with Maya 6.0):



//
// Procedure Name:
// updateMiWritable
//

global proc updateMiWritable( string $nodeName )

{
string $nodeAttr = ($nodeName + ".miWritable");

int $writable = `getAttr $nodeAttr`;

setAttr ($nodeName + ".miLocal") $writable;
editorTemplate -dimControl $nodeName "miLocal" $writable;
editorTemplate -dimControl $nodeName "miWidth" (!$writable);
editorTemplate -dimControl $nodeName "miHeight" (!$writable);
editorTemplate -dimControl $nodeName "miDepth" (!$writable);
}



modified version (to make the lightmap shader of Fast SSS work fine in Maya 6.0):


//
// Procedure Name:
// updateMiWritable
//

global proc updateMiWritable( string $nodeName )

{
string $nodeAttr = ($nodeName + ".miWritable");

int $writable = `getAttr $nodeAttr`;

//setAttr ($nodeName + ".miLocal") $writable;
editorTemplate -dimControl $nodeName "miLocal" $writable;
editorTemplate -dimControl $nodeName "miWidth" (!$writable);
editorTemplate -dimControl $nodeName "miHeight" (!$writable);
editorTemplate -dimControl $nodeName "miDepth" (!$writable);
}


Once this is done it's just a matter of knowing how to setup the shading graphs and read the mental images SSS documentation to understand the meaning of each single parameter of the component shaders.

pierre
08-29-2004, 11:06 PM
realy nice shader!..work fine also with mr3.3 standalone in distribuite render?

SorinLupu
08-29-2004, 11:08 PM
yes pierre, it work whit mr3.3 standalone


work fine also with mr3.3 standalone in distribuite render?

Jozvex
08-30-2004, 02:49 AM
Ok! That's it! I can't take it any longer! :scream:

For all of you guys that still can't get it working, follow these steps:

1. Install the MR shaders/scripts/icons etc as instructed in the readme file.
2. You shouldn't need to edit that AE template script file that Phoenix mentioned because a modified one comes in the package and you already installed it with the other scripts.
3. Start Maya.
4. Create one/some objects.
5. Create a light and get the scene looking how you want it for the final render (with just the Lambert1 shader still applied).
6. Select the object you want the fast SSS shader applied to.
7. Right click on it in the viewport and go to Materials > Assign New Material > Misss_fast_simple_maya.

That's the shader I've been using so we'll just use that for now. It's good. If you do a render now, you'll just get a funny tan coloured shader. Leave all the settings the way they are. In fact, do a render now and 'keep' the image so you can compare later and see that everything works.

8. Open out the Lightmap section of the shader.
9. Click on the texture applying button next to the lightmap slot.

It will automatically create the 'mentalrayTexture' shader that you need and open it's properties.

10. On the mentalrayTexture attributes, tick the Writable checkbox.
11. Change the File Size Depth to 32 bits.

You MUST change it to 32 bits for it to work.

12. Change the lightmap resolution to double the width of your render resolution, and to the same height as your render resolution.

For example, if you're going to render at 640x480 your lightmap should be 1280x480.

13. In the Image Name slot, type "\mySuperSSS" or something like that (but without the quotes).

You do NOT give a file extension as Mental Ray uses whatever it's lightmap file format is (extensionless). You MUST start the name with either a \ (UNIX style) or with C:\ etc because that's just the way it goes, you can't just type in a filename with no path. Going on my example, "\mySuperSSS" will create a lightmap file with no extension at C:\mySuperSSS. But don't look for it yet (even if you render) because we aren't finished yet.

14. Navigate your way to the Shading Group node of the Misss_fast_simple_maya (so you can see all the MR shader slots).

15. Click on the texture-applying button next to the 'Light Map Shader' slot.

16. Apply a Misss_fast_lmap_maya shader. It will take you to the attributes of it.

Notice that there's a "Include indirect lighting" checkbox at the top, tick that later if you want to add Final Gather to the SSS effect.

17. Open out the Lightmap Write section.

18. Into the lightmap slot, type "mentalrayTexture1" and press enter.

It just connects this shader to the mentalrayTexture shader, so if the name of your mentalrayTexture shader is different just type that instead. Alternatively you could drag and drop the mentalrayTexture shader onto that slot to achieve the same effect.

19. Render! That's it!

At first you might not notice a difference because with the default settings of the SSS shader the effect isn't mind-blowingly better. But if you compare that render to your original that you 'kept' in the Render View, you should see a difference.

Now if you went and looked at the lightmap location on your hard drive (eg C:\mySuperSSS) you should see that saved file. You can view it using the imf_disp program if you like but it's not that exciting, hehe.

Have fun!! After some playing around and with the addition of Final Gather I ended up with this:

http://www.jozvex.com/temp/MissFast1.jpg

:thumbsup:

_______
EDIT: I made some corrections according to Super Francesca. ;)

francescaluce
08-30-2004, 04:04 AM
an important correction.

12. Change the lightmap resolution (default 100x100) if you like.
I set mine to 256x256 but it just depends on what you need/want.
misss_fast* algorithm requires a lightmap which is two times larger than the framebuffer but with the same height.



one minor..
You MUST start the name with a \ because that's just the way it goes..
you can set standard win paths.



:)

ciao
francesca

Jozvex
08-30-2004, 04:39 AM
Oh ok! Thanks Francesca.

I wondered why they made the lightmap so huge for the example scene. For the path, I think you have to put at least some form of path in there, because if you just put a filename like "myLightmap" it doesn't work.

But it's good to know you can use normal Windows paths.

:)

mattwood
08-31-2004, 12:17 PM
2. You shouldn't need to edit that AE template script file that Phoenix mentioned because a modified one comes in the package and you already installed it with the other scripts.

There's an exception to this. You may, like me, be installing your custom MR shaders into a module for ease of administration across a network. Unlike scipts in your user script directories scripts in a module can't override scripts in the main application so you'll have to make a special provision for that template script. That's what caught me out earlier.

Dr. Ira Kane
08-31-2004, 12:26 PM
Thanks Jozvex for this little tutorial, the render looks very nice.

rollmops
08-31-2004, 12:41 PM
Thanx a lot jozvex for having the pedagogic reflex!

Just one question:
We are not allowed to do a "delete unused node"? It will delete the mentalrayTexture node.
Strange!

Jozvex
09-01-2004, 02:57 AM
That's weird rollmops, sounds like something to send as a bug report to Alias!

And thanks for the info mattwood!!

Briareos
09-01-2004, 04:35 AM
Yes thanks Jozvex very much, this seemed to be burried in the docs and even though I looked through them, i couldnt make much sense out of them.

thanks again,

Briareos
09-01-2004, 04:45 AM
everything worked correctly as jozvex pointed out so i can get it to work fine. However I cant seem to make it work with a model I have, Im unsure about why this is happening.

both objects have the exact same shadergroup assigned, it was made first for the head then I threw in the box afterwards to test it. Basically i just hid the head and rendered the box.

http://www.doublemoonproductions.com/sss_problem.jpg

it doesnt like my object, why? they have the same material assigned.

anyway, back to more testing...

Jozvex
09-01-2004, 06:36 AM
Are you sure it's not working on the head? It looks a bit SSS-ish to me.

Maybe try some really contrasted colours.

MasterZap
09-01-2004, 08:35 AM
it doesnt like my object, why? they have the same material assigned.
Are the sizes radically different? SSS is very very very size dependent, since light scatters a certain "distance" in the material.

The easiest way to fix an off-scale problem is to tweak the scale_conversion parameter.

/Z

rollmops
09-01-2004, 09:33 AM
You do NOT give a file extension as Mental Ray uses whatever it's lightmap file format is (extensionless).
Even not the number of the current frame?
Now let's say, I have to render 200 frames on several machines. My only chance to let it work is to set to my mentalrayTexture1.fileTextureName a local path (eg: c:/temp...) If not every machine will attempt to write in the same time the same file!?

Jozvex
09-01-2004, 10:11 AM
Yes you're right about that rollmops. :)

I just said that because I read posts where 'beginners' were typing things like MySSS.iff.

So it was safer for me to just explain the basics, so they could at least get the shader working.

:thumbsup:

francescaluce
09-01-2004, 01:02 PM
ehy !.. say hallo to master(super)zap.. he's the head under the misss_fast!!

:love:



ciao
francesca

MasterZap
09-01-2004, 01:14 PM
Oh my.

I was trying to be here "incognito" .... :eek:

Uhm... pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!! :wise:

/Z

francescaluce
09-01-2004, 04:16 PM
:):rolleyes:






ciao
francesca

Jozvex
09-01-2004, 11:41 PM
Too late Master Zap!

I went to your website yesterday and watched your latest movie and some of the tests. Pretty cool! Congratulations on getting a job at Mental Images. We'll all appreciate any work you do there.

That chrome mapping shader looks cool too!

MasterZap
09-02-2004, 03:14 PM
Too late Master Zap!
Curses, I must change battery in my cloaking device.

Thanks for the comments. :bounce:

/Z

MunCHeR
09-02-2004, 11:18 PM
Warmest congratulations master zap, I can recommend the "energizer" baterries they go and go and go.:thumbsup:

Cheers

MunCH

cinefx007
09-08-2004, 03:07 AM
hey where do i load the misss shader or do i ahve to download it ? thanks

jbradley
09-08-2004, 02:33 PM
hey where do i load the misss shader or do i ahve to download it ? thanks
Please read the previous pages to this thread. The download is available to Alias Community registered users on the Bonus Tools page. I'm on the platinum membership so I didn't notice if there were any support package requirements to download the shader set.

Now, for my questions :)

Getting the shaders to work isn't too hard - but I'd rather plug in the Miss_physical into one of the Maya shaders - like blinn, or even into another mental shader, such as dielectric, to create frosted glass. I'm not that versed in shader writing yet (only about a month with Maya to this point), so any tips are greatly appreciated.

MasterZap
09-18-2004, 08:12 PM
Here's a test I did....

Jozvex
09-18-2004, 11:24 PM
Looks good!

You do know you look somewhat like Kiefer Sutherland don't you? At least from that angle.

:p

popol
09-19-2004, 02:42 AM
hi master zap and thank you for this really cool shader!

sorry for my english

your test scenes is really good, can you tell us more about how did you setup your

network,you're only use the misss fast skin or some other shader?

MasterZap
09-19-2004, 10:50 AM
Nothing beyond the fast sss skin shader (and some bitmap textures), final gathering, and a HDRI lightprobe photo captured in the location I put my friend Globulous.

/Z

francescaluce
09-20-2004, 02:29 PM
ehy zap great attempt.. I'm just wondering.. what's the big blue thing in the back.. the stellar ship of our globulus or your mega super zap barbecue.. :)

I have also coined a neologism that I'm trying to export in all the studios or with all the ppz I work.. is 'zappette'.. that from now on... it simply means.. 'when the last bucket has finished its work and the rendered image is still better than what you were expecting.. you're entitled to exclaim 'zappette'.. that in such sense renew the old human vocation to try always things that in the first he does not know how to manage and control.. and renew also the ancient conviction, well paraphrased by b.russell.. that is still better to be alive than dead.. all things considered .. is a modern 'carpediem'. :p



ciao
francesca

Jozvex
09-20-2004, 11:11 PM
Haha!

I hope I have many moments to exclaim 'zappette' in the future!

kylda
09-21-2004, 11:33 AM
Hi,man.I just found sth strange when using misss_physical.
In doc I got it that I must turn on GI,raytrace in order to use misss_physical,
but,I found that when I turn of GI and the material still works.
Look at this screenshot.
http://3dhmm.15173.cn/UploadFile/200482113424716370.jpg

orljustin
09-28-2004, 03:43 PM
Hey,

Just trying to play around with the shader on the dragon...

I've made a lollipop. - candy head, stick below. When I assign them both the same fast shader, I can see the stick through the head. When I assign the stick a duplicate of said shader, I get no stick translucence - ing through the head.

Is there a basic thing I'm missing here? Can they each have their own lightmap, or do they need different. I've tried both ways.

Thanks....

MasterZap
09-28-2004, 05:39 PM
For the scattering to influence eachother, they must have the exact same lightmap, i.e. wired to the very same writable texture.

/Z

MasterZap
09-28-2004, 05:45 PM
. dbl post

MasterZap
09-28-2004, 05:50 PM
. triple post (can ya believe it) .

BillSpradlin
09-28-2004, 06:33 PM
Don't stare at Zap's avatar for too long, I just started hallucinating... bleeeh.

orljustin
09-29-2004, 02:21 PM
For the scattering to influence eachother, they must have the exact same lightmap, i.e. wired to the very same writable texture.

/Z
Gotcha. I just entered the same file name, didn't actually connect the shader to the same texture node. Thanks.

][ndy
09-29-2004, 11:54 PM
Hey Master Zap,

is it possible to see the settings you used for that picture? It looks very good!

ardittis
09-30-2004, 02:03 AM
I ve tried everything you guys have mentioned, but for a certain reason it does not allow me to save the image file, it always gives me an error:

IMG 0.2 error 101022: cannot create file /sourceimages/MyMiss2
IMG 0.2 error 101003: /images/MyMiss2: can't create file (The system cannot find the file specified.)

Ive tried writing down the win path also but it gives me the same eroor, anybody knows why?

ovendelon
09-30-2004, 10:51 AM
great shader! and many thanks to jozvex!

here is my test with misss_simple_maya

http://www.cgfarm.com/ovendelon/SSS.jpg

][ndy
09-30-2004, 12:36 PM
@ ardittis

Are you sure you made the lightmap writable?

Does it have to mean something that you have two different folders?

"IMG 0.2 error 101022: cannot create file /sourceimages/MyMiss2
IMG 0.2 error 101003: /images/MyMiss2"

Maybe you should post your scenefile or some screenshots of your settings here.

Tocpe
09-30-2004, 02:30 PM
My latest test with Misss_Fast_Skin_Maya:

Link to thread for C&C on this shader on CGTalk (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=1611000)

http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/images/forum/myrenders/heads/Alba-v2.57-iso-9-29-04.jpg

][ndy
10-01-2004, 04:16 PM
Just some testing. Please do not look at the eyes...

yinako
10-01-2004, 05:49 PM
I'm testing this shader but theres a lot of sampling artifacts from the misss_fast_shader, I have the light map working etc. and the sss in effect how ever from the documentation from Alias, it says 128 sample is enough.

However even if I bump the samples to 512 and have my super sampling to min0 max2 with a 4x4 filter I'll still get very noticable sample dots on screen. my render output is 320*240 for testing.

Any suggestion as to why it should look like theres artifacts? or I missed something?

MasterZap
10-01-2004, 05:58 PM
The first question is, what is the resolution of your lightmap?

The "optimal" size is twice the width of your final rendering and the same height, but you can benefit from higher resolutions in some cases (mostly for very tiny scatter radii, or distant shots where the scatter radii is very small in screen-space)

/Z

yinako
10-02-2004, 02:08 AM
my light map resolution is 640*240 which is what you say.
I think the problem seems to go away when render from different camera angle, and it only happens with this particular model I have(two surface very close but do not touch each other). As I have tried other test which works ok.

MasterZap
10-02-2004, 07:25 AM
Okay, then that's the nearly-touching-surfaces are the reason. Avoid those if possible.

/Z

Tocpe
10-04-2004, 02:43 PM
For the past couple of days I have been trying to get some kind of descent results out of the reflection channels in the MiSSS_Fast_Skin_Maya shader. I'm at a lost as to how to get the darn things to work. I'm getting all kinds of wierd results, the worst case being a "spotty" look even when I don't have a bump map hooked up to the shader:

http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/images/forum/myrenders/heads/Alba-v2.58d.jpg

Anybody messed with the reflection channels, or know what's going on here?

MasterZap
10-05-2004, 02:45 PM
It seems you are using a HDRI environment, is that so?
If so, try pre-blurring the environment some. Apply a pre-blurred version of the environment as a local environment for the material.

What you are seeing is a classic case of the "HDRI filtering problem", whereas a single huge value takes a filter too a massive output, and you do not get smoothed borders as normally.

Another way is to simply up the sampling on your model, although that would increase rendering time. And turn off "reflect environment only" button would make this case look a bit more realistic I think...

NOTE:

Btw, a tip to everyone; You do not need to give the mentalRayTexture writable texture a file name at all! Just leave the slot blank, and it will make an in-memory texture only. I didn't even know this myself until I noticed it accidentally. :)


/Z

Jozvex
10-06-2004, 08:51 AM
Cool tip, thanks!

:thumbsup:

shserge
10-07-2004, 11:37 AM
Very interesting! :bounce: When i will do good sss? heh

Tocpe
10-07-2004, 11:02 PM
Hey Zap, I've been trying for the last couple of days to get the reflection to work on the shader and I can't get it to work. I tried the blurring and I tried boosting the sample (all the way up to 2048!)

Can some of you guys and gals please test the shader and see if you can get the relections channels to work in the MiSSS_Fast_Skin_Maya shader. I'm beginning to wonder if they're broken or I'm just dumb... :shrug:

popol
10-09-2004, 02:42 PM
hi

i start to play with your shader mr zap and the resul is not bad (i think ...)

if you have any advise to amilorate the skin aspect

(there is no bump and the lighting is really poor, i update when i've got the time)

http://membres.lycos.fr/popol22/01.JPG

sorry for my english.

yinako
10-10-2004, 04:37 AM
Hey Zap, I've been trying for the last couple of days to get the reflection to work on the shader and I can't get it to work. I tried the blurring and I tried boosting the sample (all the way up to 2048!)

Can some of you guys and gals please test the shader and see if you can get the relections channels to work in the MiSSS_Fast_Skin_Maya shader. I'm beginning to wonder if they're broken or I'm just dumb... :shrug:
I doubt this shader is made to have great reflections.... why not composite it in post or layer texture/shader in maya with a real reflection shader.

MasterZap
10-10-2004, 06:58 AM
When I said turn up samples I meant for the rendering, not the subsurface samples (they do not affect the reflection).

The reflections are normal mental ray glossy reflections, you could layer another shader with some mix node if you want another kind of/more/different reflections.

/Z

razorback
10-10-2004, 05:26 PM
hi

i start to play with your shader mr zap and the resul is not bad (i think ...)

if you have any advise to amilorate the skin aspect

(there is no bump and the lighting is really poor, i update when i've got the time)

http://membres.lycos.fr/popol22/01.JPG

sorry for my english.
Looks like great potential to me. Its quite soft, like really plush. healthy skin. It looks like something you get out of a VERY good rotoscope job. Am looking forward to see more images.

Tocpe
10-11-2004, 02:39 PM
When I said turn up samples I meant for the rendering, not the subsurface samples (they do not affect the reflection).

The reflections are normal mental ray glossy reflections, you could layer another shader with some mix node if you want another kind of/more/different reflections.

/Z

Do you mean the Reflections setting under the mental ray/Raytacing tab under the render globals?

BigSky
10-12-2004, 02:02 AM
off topic, but Zap, any chance for the chromemapper plugin for maya?
It's goodlookin' quick and dirty! Just how I like 'em.

yinako
10-12-2004, 10:19 AM
I have notice some odd behaviours with this shader while try to composite in maya with either add/minus node or layer texture/layered shaders...they give different results, from a real add(in post).

Tocpe
10-15-2004, 04:44 PM
Here are some tests I did with the MiSSS_Fast_Skin_Maya shader. It appears that when entering values in the Reflect Weight slot, values below 0.01 don't appear to take effect or at least have much of an effect...


http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/images/forum/myrenders/heads/Reflect01.jpg
http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/images/forum/myrenders/heads/Reflect02.jpg
http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/images/forum/myrenders/heads/Reflect03.jpg
http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/images/forum/myrenders/heads/Reflect04.jpg
http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/images/forum/myrenders/heads/Reflect05.jpg
http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/images/forum/myrenders/heads/Reflect06.jpg

Sabotage3d
10-15-2004, 11:45 PM
hi to all these are my tests the 1st is without specular :
I will appreciate if somebody can tell how to use this shader with aov
and bent normals+ao+hdr reflection in post
http://www.fartt.com/images/misss/hdr2.jpghttp://www.fartt.com/images/misss/HDR3.jpghttp://www.fartt.com/images/misss/SSS.jpg

Daniel-B
10-21-2004, 02:36 PM
Master Zap, you did an EXCELLENT job with this shader. Thanks for writting it. I am forever in your debt. What is thy bidding, my Master?

MasterZap
10-21-2004, 03:14 PM
Thank you PixelMagic.

It gives me great joy to see so many use it. A lot of smashing stuff in this thread alone. I wish I had time to comment on them all, but, some REALLY nice stuff here...!

/Z

Tocpe
10-21-2004, 09:17 PM
Zap,

Do you know of a work-flow for usingthe reflectivity in the shader? I'm having a tough time controlling it. Specularity isn't cutting it, I need the accuracy of reflectivity but I'm running into problems with it's reliablity.

Sabotage3d
10-21-2004, 11:05 PM
great shader master zap i watched your fan movies really nice job
in all the tests i did with this shader i cannot understand how to control the shadow when ibl is involved i really cannot render with many fg rays and is a keylight with photons needed when ibl is used

Stahlberg
10-22-2004, 08:40 AM
Haven't got time to test it now, is there a way to layer another shader over this one? (Because then a whole new level of complexitiy opens up, including the reflections Tocpe's looking for.) Maybe with mix8layer?

cocopops
10-22-2004, 08:54 AM
Seems that it doesnt work correctly with mix layer tools .. (at least not for me)

also having problems getting ot to work with IBL too ..

but Its a very very nice shader ..

cocopops
10-22-2004, 08:57 AM
This is a great shader ..


unfortunatly it doesnt seem to work with mix nodes ...

Any advice getting it to work with IBL in maya .. ?

MasterZap
10-22-2004, 09:04 AM
Haven't got time to test it now, is there a way to layer another shader over this one? (Because then a whole new level of complexitiy opens up, including the reflections Tocpe's looking for.) Maybe with mix8layer?
Stahlberg my friend, when it comes to Maya, you are the one ANSWERING questions, and I am the one ASKING them.

To the question "can you layer it with mix8layer" I can only say "I don't know". There should be no problem doing it as I see it. Okay, misss_fast_*_maya is a mental ray Phenomenon (i.e. a mental ray shader graph collapsed into a single object, which in some particular specific cases have restricted uses) already, not a single shader, yet this shouldn't be a problem. I think. Try it!

But please also note this:

The misss_fast_skin_maya and misss_fast_simple_maya are mental ray Phenomena. A mental ray Phenomenon is a prebuilt shader graph, made of many shaders internally, yet acting as a single unit to the "outside world".

The misss_fast_skin_maya is built form the following component shaders:

2 cascaded layers of misss_fast_shader for the subsurface scattering.
The misss_fast_shader shaders also take plugin shaders for the diffuse and specular component, so it is using misss_lambert_gamma for the diffuse and misss_skin_specular for the specularity.

Any and all of this is changeable by you! You could make a copy of the declaration for misss_fast_skin_maya and build your own misss_fast_my_cool_phen phenomena with whichever shaders for the various components. Yes, you need to read the mental ray manuals, know some .mi file hacking, and read the subsurface scattering shader chapter, but it's not rocket science.

Want Oren-Nayar diffuse? Sure. Want to use DGS as a speculaity? Shake it, baby. Want to layer 8 copies of misss_skin_specular? Just do it.

Or, if you don't like .mi file hacking, you can use the misss_fast_shader directly. It's a bit tricky, but quite doable. You need to plug in subshaders for specularity (anyone you like) and diffuse (although std. lambert is used if you plug none in) and bump, and of course connect it to the lightmap and misss_fast_lmap_maya which must always be used in the lightmap slot. It'll be a lot of nodes (which is why it's generally encapsulated in a Phenomena in the first place - to keep people sane :) ) but it is also doable.

/Z

yinako
10-22-2004, 12:07 PM
If by layering you mean standard layer operations, then I had little luck with it. I tried add node, layer texture, layer shader and they all give different result(add operation), I don't think they support mental ray shaders, atleast not these...

I guess you need mental ray specific compositing nodes, or simialr operations.

But of course you could always do it in post, which works great.

dynamic duotone
10-22-2004, 03:46 PM
As for getting the reflection to work - I found (so far) that it is best if there is no specularity settings except for Overall Weight and Edge factor - then only small settings in the Reflection settings. You put your black and white "spec map" in the Overall weight node.

I'm still working with it, but I've found that it lets you control where and how much reflection you will be rendering.

One thing I would like to ask is...does anyone have any idea how I can make these teeth look more photoreal? Any crits would be a welcome change - I have been looking at this too long. I'm using a misss_fast_skin shader.

Thanks
DD

MasterZap
10-22-2004, 05:51 PM
One thing I would like to ask is...does anyone have any idea how I can make these teeth look more photoreal? Thats not a photo!?

I think possibly teeth needs a wet layer. They look very very real.... only "dry". We need a saliva layer!

Have you tried to put a higher reflection glossiness value on them? (Oh wait, you are using 0 - mirror reflection - already, my error)

I suggest:
Edge Factor: 7
Reflection Edge Weight: 0.5 - 0.9

Lot more reflection on the edges.

An alternative is to move your specularity map from the "ovarall" slot to the "reflection weight" slot (and turning the images intensity down) but leave the "reflection edge weight" fairly high. This gives mapped reflection intensity on the front of the teeth, but nice "glisten" on the edges, the kind wet surfaces give off.

Is the gums also the sss shader?

/Z

Stahlberg
10-23-2004, 04:40 AM
About the teeth, I agree with Zapmaster's suggestions. I'd also try to work them more translucent, less saturated yellow and the gums brighter, extra bright near the tooth then falling off darker away from it. And maybe lower the lighting intensity a bit, it's blowing out the highlights now making it hard to see what's going on. But they're already very realistic.

Master Zap, me hacking .mi files is probably never going to happen, for several reasons... :)
So if anyone else would like to try changing that Lambert into Oren-Nayar, please post the result. I really do believe O-N is better for the diffuse. Also, I think the old PhongE from Wavefront is a better highlight all-round for skin, though I could be wrong, haven't been able to test it properly. If not all-round, then at least I'm pretty sure it's best for glossy skin (oily or wet). Then we have the reflections, as Tocpe mentioned. I'd also love to be able to put a velvety layer on top, and then a makeup/dirt layer over all of it.

Kel Solaar
10-24-2004, 01:36 PM
Hello all http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

I'm testing the shader and i found it's very controllable and fast, certainly one of the best i have used (great work Masta Zap :buttrock: ). I have tried to layer it in mix8layer and it didn't work for me too, it's not an important problem as it can be done in comp (it just would have been easier for fast testing purpose). However i'm facing a strange problem with specularity, at a zero color value and a zero shininess there is alaways a specular reflect, even if i put down to 0 all shaders parameters.
Here are two screengrab to illustrate what i mean :


What it would be cool to put in mix8layer http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/smile.gif (notice that there is a specular reflect)
http://kelsolaar.3dvf.net/WebSharing/SSS_A.jpg

And the problem :(

http://kelsolaar.3dvf.net/WebSharing/SSS_B.jpg


Hope i didn't make a huge mistake http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/shrug.gif

dynamic duotone
10-25-2004, 03:32 PM
Thanks Master Zap and Stahlberg, like I saidÖIíve been looking at this too long and needed a sanity check.

I'll give your suggestions a run - I was wondering how those reflection sliders worked exactly, that clears some stuff up for me now. All of this has been trial and error so far, but your advice has helped a little on the other teeth. Once I did the same settings on the secondary incisors and canines, the whole scheme seemed to fall apart. I can get the front two teeth looking pretty good and then when I try adding my same settings to the others; as you can see they end up looking not as good. I am using an HDRI for the reflections, it seems to be overblown the teeth on both sides of the two front teeth.

Yes, the gums are also the misss_fast_skin shader. I am currently working on the reflection map for that one also.

Master Zap your SSS shader is really nice! I found that putting photo based texture (Leigh cringes as she readsÖ) in both the overall and diffuse main nodes get the whole material 85% there...then you just have to play with the scale conversion's falloff to get a really nice "deep" scatter.

As you may be able to see the gum UV is a little sloppy, This is mostly an R&D test to see how close to photo real we can make it. I only have texture maps on the first six teeth in the front right now. Here is an adaptation of the settings you told me to use Ė I like it much better. Still a WIP, so there are a few subtle additions/changes I need to make in the areas of color and bump.

Stahlberg or MasterZap, I have posted the shader settings for your review Ė could you give me any ideas on how to get it more translucent? Might it be my Light Map settings? It seems that when I reduce the Diffuse Weight (at top) it loses its brilliance. Any ideas on how I can keep it bright and alive looking, while reducing the Point Light intensity like Stahlberg suggests? Right now the scene has two point lights, each have MR Physical Light shaders attached and the Area Light box is checked. I have GI on and FG off. FG seems to blow out the colors and over cranks the whites. Could light intensity have something to do with this?

Thanks
DD

Tocpe
10-25-2004, 10:36 PM
Thanks for the help on the reflection Zap. I've been able to control the reflections better and they look *SO* much beter than the spec. I turned the spec off completely and am just using reflection.

Updated image

http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/maya/modules/filemanager/files/Tocpe/alba-v2.65b.jpg

What do you guys and gals think?

eddgarpv
10-26-2004, 01:43 AM
Hey all.. I've been doing some test in a laptop. But when I try to do the same thing in my workstation, I get this error :

LIB 0.0 error 291825: {TEXS}/lightMap/sss: registry entry {TEXS} not found
LIB 0.0 error 291025: {TEXS}/lightMap/sss: registry entry {TEXS} not found

This happens if I put a name and path in the mentalrayTexture node.. if I leave it in blank as zap said, everything works, except the sss.

rendering with verbose on displays:

...
RCLM 0.2 progr: lightmap vertex run, shader 0x53e: misss_fast_lmap_maya1 on instance 2:0
PHEN 0.2 progr: misss_lightmap_write_init: Got shader init
PHEN 0.2 progr: misss_lightmap_write_init: Got instance init 382001320
PHEN 0.2 progr: misss_lightmap_create: starts w. tags 1326 and 0
RCLM 0.2 progr: lightmap mesh run, shader 0x53e: misss_fast_lmap_maya1 on instance 2:0
PHEN 0.2 progr: 0.0% sss lightmap generation
RCLM 0.2 progr: lightmap mesh run 2:0 done, 1520 triangles
PHEN 0.2 progr: misss_lightmap_write_exit: Got instance exit 382001320
PHEN 0.2 progr: misss_lightmap_close: Closing lightmaps
PHEN 0.2 progr: misss_lightmap_write_exit: Got shader exit
...


From the other example (the working one), lightmap generation is a bit slower (a few seconds).

using the "\" generates a file, but still no sss.

Anybody experienced something similar?

edit: the error is because of the "\". It MUST be included. I'll render with detailed messages both scenes...

eddgarpv
10-26-2004, 02:55 AM
I'm quite ashamed.

After looking several 'PHEN 0.2 warn 052017: mi_matrix_solve: A is singular'
I thought about normals (?).

normals were partially inverted but I discovered a lot of useful stuff about debugging.
now everything is working.

sorry guys.

MasterZap
10-26-2004, 07:36 AM
Hope i didn't make a huge mistake Nothing I can see, but obviously somewhere you did, since I cannot replicate the "problem" of an ever-present specularity. You must have some additional layer in there somehow?!?



Master Zap your SSS shader is really nice! I found that putting photo based texture (Leigh cringes as she readsÖ) in both the overall and diffuse main nodes get the whole material 85% there...then you just have to play with the scale conversion's falloff to get a really nice "deep" scatter.You can probably do it this way with good results, but do keep in mind that "overall" is just that - overall. If you put a texture in "overall" it means it multiplies with all the other settings. So if you put the texture BOTH in overall AND in, say, "unscattered diffuse", it actually means you are texturing twice.

While this may in some cases be a useful effect, I personally generally put the texture in "unscattered diffuse" layer and "epidermal" layers. Leave "overall" as a solid color OR for texturing surface dirt or details that go ABOVE everything else (eyebrows?).

Might it be my Light Map settings? It seems that when I reduce the Diffuse Weight (at top) it loses its brilliance. Any ideas on how I can keep it bright and alive looking, while reducing the Point Light intensity like Stahlberg suggests? Right now the scene has two point lights, each have MR Physical Light shaders attached and the Area Light box is checked. I have GI on and FG off. FG seems to blow out the colors and over cranks the whites. Could light intensity have something to do with this?THe one setting you have that seem kinda "insane" is your lightmap gamma at 0.2 ... "normal" lambertian is 1.0, any deviation from 1.0 is "tweaking". The default is 0.75 which is "slightly towards the oren nayar-ish look". Setting it as low as 0.2 is.... hmm.... the lit side will be white, the dark black, and basically no gradient inbetween at all.

/Z

MasterZap
10-26-2004, 07:40 AM
Thanks for the help on the reflection Zap. I've been able to control the reflections better and they look *SO* much beter than the spec. I turned the spec off completely and am just using reflection.

What do you guys and gals think?
Apart from that ears geometry, it looks fantastic.

As for specular, I found that having one very faint layer of specular with a shinyness as low as 2.0 or even 1.0(!) plus one "sweat" or "surface oil" layer which has a much higher shinyness, gives good results with specularity. But yes, I agree that specularity is the next nut to crack. We basically have scattering and diffuse down by now, correct specularity to go. I think the real key lies in that specularity needs to be partially scattered in the epidermis as well.

/Z

dynamic duotone
10-28-2004, 04:08 PM
Which teeth do you like better? Right or Left?

I would like to get some outside opinion on this, because I can't really decide. I thought that maybe I should ask which you might think are more photoreal...Right or Left?

Please ignore the gums and those back yellow teeth right now, I am still tweaking them...but any hints in direction would be much appreciated.

Man Master Zap, I can't even tell you how much I appreciate your advice on this. I think it's really close now. Your shader is A-Ma-Zing! Thank you for all your hard work on this shader!

Also thanks to Stahlberg...you were right, my lights were way over cranked - that's the kind of stuff that's hard to notice when you've been looking at it too long.

Thanks for the feedback in advance.
DD

poly-phobic
10-28-2004, 10:46 PM
Ok! That's it! I can't take it any longer! :scream:

For all of you guys that still can't get it working, follow these steps:

1. Install the MR shaders/scripts/icons etc as instructed in the readme file.
2. You shouldn't need to edit that AE template script file that Phoenix mentioned because a modified one comes in the package and you already installed it with the other scripts.
3. Start Maya.
4. Create one/some objects.
5. Create a light and get the scene looking how you want it for the final render (with just the Lambert1 shader still applied).
6. Select the object you want the fast SSS shader applied to.
7. Right click on it in the viewport and go to Materials > Assign New Material > Misss_fast_simple_maya.

That's the shader I've been using so we'll just use that for now. It's good. If you do a render now, you'll just get a funny tan coloured shader. Leave all the settings the way they are. In fact, do a render now and 'keep' the image so you can compare later and see that everything works.

8. Open out the Lightmap section of the shader.
9. Click on the texture applying button next to the lightmap slot.

It will automatically create the 'mentalrayTexture' shader that you need and open it's properties.

10. On the mentalrayTexture attributes, tick the Writable checkbox.
11. Change the File Size Depth to 32 bits.

You MUST change it to 32 bits for it to work.

12. Change the lightmap resolution to double the width of your render resolution, and to the same height as your render resolution.

For example, if you're going to render at 640x480 your lightmap should be 1280x480.

13. In the Image Name slot, type "\mySuperSSS" or something like that (but without the quotes).

You do NOT give a file extension as Mental Ray uses whatever it's lightmap file format is (extensionless). You MUST start the name with either a \ (UNIX style) or with C:\ etc because that's just the way it goes, you can't just type in a filename with no path. Going on my example, "\mySuperSSS" will create a lightmap file with no extension at C:\mySuperSSS. But don't look for it yet (even if you render) because we aren't finished yet.

14. Navigate your way to the Shading Group node of the Misss_fast_simple_maya (so you can see all the MR shader slots).

15. Click on the texture-applying button next to the 'Light Map Shader' slot.

16. Apply a Misss_fast_lmap_maya shader. It will take you to the attributes of it.

Notice that there's a "Include indirect lighting" checkbox at the top, tick that later if you want to add Final Gather to the SSS effect.

17. Open out the Lightmap Write section.

18. Into the lightmap slot, type "mentalrayTexture1" and press enter.

It just connects this shader to the mentalrayTexture shader, so if the name of your mentalrayTexture shader is different just type that instead. Alternatively you could drag and drop the mentalrayTexture shader onto that slot to achieve the same effect.

19. Render! That's it!

At first you might not notice a difference because with the default settings of the SSS shader the effect isn't mind-blowingly better. But if you compare that render to your original that you 'kept' in the Render View, you should see a difference.

Now if you went and looked at the lightmap location on your hard drive (eg C:\mySuperSSS) you should see that saved file. You can view it using the imf_disp program if you like but it's not that exciting, hehe.

Have fun!! After some playing around and with the addition of Final Gather I ended up with this:

http://www.jozvex.com/temp/MissFast1.jpg

:thumbsup:

_______
EDIT: I made some corrections according to Super Francesca. ;)
wow 19 simple steps :)
gotta love alias and thier efforts to integrate stuff and making things easy to use. .
superb :thumbsup:

spurv
10-28-2004, 11:05 PM
Hi

I'm using miss_phisycal+FG+IBL (hdr img). How can i control the amount of reflection?
It dnt seam to have no reflection param.
tks





Sorry the bad english

stardent
11-02-2004, 01:02 PM
I'm having a real problem getting an alpha out of this shader. Has anyone else encountered this, and found a workaround?


Cheers

dynamic duotone
11-02-2004, 02:36 PM
Yup, I think it's broken right now. Hopefully Master Zap can give some insight on that. We have been rendering out two versions one with the SSS on and then replace the object's shader with a flat lambert and rerender a second set, then composite in Photoshop. Not pretty or efficent at all, but it works.

DD

Tocpe
11-02-2004, 02:43 PM
I'm using miss_phisycal+FG+IBL (hdr img). How can i control the amount of reflection? It dnt seam to have no reflection param.

Correct me if I'm wrong here Zap, but I don't think the miss_physical shader has a reflectivity node. I think you'll need to plug in a mr shader like mib_illum_phong into the Surface Material slot in the miss_physical shader.

RenderPimp
11-02-2004, 10:49 PM
I'm having a real problem getting an alpha out of this shader. Has anyone else encountered this, and found a workaround?

Cheers
just check the 'Pass surface color alpha channel' in the custom entities section of teh render globals, if your using maya that is.

stardent
11-03-2004, 10:12 AM
Hey Renderpimp that works. Cheers for the top tip!

dynamic duotone
11-03-2004, 10:53 PM
What do y'all think?
Are the gums and teeth getting close to looking photoreal?

I made some small changes based on Master Zap's hints, and lightened the gums in accordance to Stahlberg's suggestion.

Let me know what you think. I know the geometry isn't quite right, this model was purchased, we will have a better one soon.

thanks
DD

Kabab
11-04-2004, 01:29 AM
Looking good but i think there is something missing where the gums meet the teeth..

dynamic duotone
11-04-2004, 02:03 PM
Good eye Kabab...

Yeah, I think that I'm missing the viscous saliva bead, like the wet-looking tear bead that runs at the junction between the eyeball and bottom eyelid. To be honest, it would look much better if the gum geometry was better. Thanks for the feedback.

DD

floze
11-04-2004, 02:14 PM
Looks like gingivitis to me! :D :D
lol just kidding, couldnt resist. :bounce:

Kabab
11-04-2004, 02:21 PM
I was thinking if it was perhapes a few shades darker at the point the teeth meet the gums it would look better... It might be worth a try.

coyhot
11-07-2004, 01:56 AM
Hi There,

Just one question what kind of node put in the Bum Shader Slot ?

Thanks for all your advices.

Bye

CoyHot

Stahlberg
11-07-2004, 07:46 AM
a few shades darker at the point the teeth meet the gums it would look better
I agree, and also 1 - 2 shades lighter on the gums at that point too.

But it is looking better than before. :thumbsup:

floze
11-07-2004, 03:16 PM
Just one question what kind of node put in the Bum Shader Slot ?

Plugging one of Francesca Luce's bumpCombiner into it works nice.

Zgame
11-07-2004, 05:12 PM
I dont know if im really dumb for asking this but...
Can mi_sss be ported to 3dsmax? if so, how?

floze
11-07-2004, 05:43 PM
I dont know if im really dumb for asking this but...
Can mi_sss be ported to 3dsmax? if so, how?
Well, Forrest's mama said: 'Stupid is as stupid does', and I do believe that as well so dont worry.
But unfortunately 3dsmax seems to use mentalray 3.2.6 which is not compatible with the misss shaders - they require mentalray 3.3 at least. Maybe this will be fixed with the next 3dsmax service pack.

MasterZap
11-08-2004, 05:53 PM
Well, Forrest's mama said: 'Stupid is as stupid does', and I do believe that as well so dont worry.
But unfortunately 3dsmax seems to use mentalray 3.2.6 which is not compatible with the misss shaders - they require mentalray 3.3 at least. Maybe this will be fixed with the next 3dsmax service pack.
The misss shaders ship with your standard Max7 install. But correct - you need 7 (which runs on mr 3.3) and not 6 (which runs on mr 3.2)

/Z

floze
11-08-2004, 06:01 PM
The misss shaders ship with your standard Max7 install. But correct - you need 7 (which runs on mr 3.3) and not 6 (which runs on mr 3.2)
/Z
Bloody hell, I totally forgot 3dsmax7 is out. :argh:
Seems like Im to maya focused. :thumbsup:

dynamic duotone
11-08-2004, 06:35 PM
Master Zap I love your shader!

I added FG to the scene, tweaked the colors a little and added some depth of field for fun - I think with a couple fixes to geometry, and some color enhancements, this could be on the Gravy Train with biscuit wheels!

Any feedback would be much appreciated,

Thanks for this shader!
DD

Joss
11-10-2004, 10:14 PM
Nice teeth!

Does this shader work on Sub-D geometery?

dynamic duotone
11-10-2004, 10:28 PM
Dunno? Never tried to texture a sub-d object, I do know that Mental Ray has some fits with Sub-D's though - my guess would be that it probably wouldn't work - Could you convert to polys once you get your model like you like it?

Anyone else care to comment on that?

Thanks for the feedback
DD

coyhot
11-10-2004, 10:56 PM
Hi there

Sorry to ask again about bump ... but what kind of node i have to plug in Bump to use it (i don't want to use the "Bump Combiner" for now).

If you have the description of the shading network ..... : )

Thanks for all

Bye Bye

CoyHot

http://www.coyhot.fr.st

eddgarpv
11-11-2004, 10:44 AM
I've done some renders with subd and it works.. animations using it and really rocks.
hope to post soon (clients stuff).

dynamic duotone
11-11-2004, 01:56 PM
Hi Coyhot,

Just use a regular Maya 2D or 3D bump Utility - then open your Attribute Editor and Hypershade at the same time, using your middle mouse button click on the the Utility in the Hypershade; hold and drag over to the bump slot of the Shader's Bump Attribute slot. When you see the black outline appear around the bump attribute slot let go of your mouse button. It will connect correctly.

Connect your bump map to your bump utility and that should do it.

DD

coyhot
11-11-2004, 07:06 PM
Hi Dynamic Duotone

In fact, i already test this way, but with your advices i test it again and i have discover that :

If you disconnect filtering (quadratic or another else), in fact set it to "Off", the resulting render is like this :http://perso.wanadoo.fr/coyhot/images/Tutor/MISSS_Bump_Fix.jpg

As you can see, you have to filter the using image for bump channel to have a good result.

Now, it's works.
Thanks for all !

Bye Bye

CoyHot

http://www.coyhot.fr.st (http://www.coyhot.fr.st/)

OLD-BOY
11-12-2004, 09:16 AM
this misss_fast shader that people are using, is it only for Maya 6. If so i use Maya 5, how can i achieve SSS, do i have to fake it.

dynamic duotone
11-12-2004, 02:46 PM
Yes, the misss, shaders only work on Mental Ray 3.3 which comes with maya 6.

BUT!

Go to:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=144747

You want to download/use the diffusion shader - it was converted from XSI

Then here is a good thread on application:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=161496

Good Luck
DD

OLD-BOY
11-12-2004, 05:02 PM
I got that Diffuse shader (rind) and i seemed to install it properly. Im quite new to mental ray but how can i apply the diffuse material to my model. What channel does it slip into.
cheers

dynamic duotone
11-12-2004, 05:12 PM
If I remember correctly - we connected into the Ambient Color channel of a Maya Lambert or Blinn material. Some people had good luck with the incandecense channel -

Read that Pssst thread, I believe it's in there. Also do a search for "SSS" or "diffusion" with your search feature - there are a couple other threads on the diffusion shader

Good luck
DD

Jako
11-14-2004, 06:35 PM
great shader!
For those who can't get it work with the mix8layer:
Follow Jozvex's tutorial. When you have finished, plug the "misss_fast_lmap_maya" in the Light Map Shader of the Shading Group from the mix8layer and plug the misss_fast_simple_maya in a layer. Should work.

siamak2004max
11-15-2004, 09:56 AM
hi
my name is siamak
i want khow something about sss
about how can i use that
thanks
siamak_roshani@yahoo.com

siamak2004max
11-15-2004, 10:02 AM
hi
i want khow somting about sss and
how can i use that in maya
thanks

lazzhar
11-16-2004, 08:07 PM
Hi,

I was underestimating this shader "misss" so I never tryed it while I got it since it was released. I thought I dont need it, but it seems it's really the magic solution for SSS.
I tryed to render some stuff then I brought an old head i was working on it forever and never finish it. Now I tryed to render just back lights with it.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/lazzhar/miss_test01_backlights.jpg

Gremlin
11-23-2004, 05:16 AM
I honestly wish i knew how to acheive such results...

I followed jozvex's tutorial, but its still very VERY weak SS (and I know its user error, im not taking advantage of it properly, cause I dunno shit about MR) but, I wanna use a texture, SSS and ambient occlusion.

Layering in photoshop the SSS ontop of the texture pass with a "screen" yields good results, I think... but I couldnt even set up a decent SSS pass.

jimdaug
11-23-2004, 06:23 AM
Gremlin, you may want to play around with the algorithm control's scale factor under the material. The values are computed in millimeters, and if your working units are in inches will will have to change the scale to 2.4, or whatever the conversion factor is. You might also try changing the weights of the scatter layers in the material to increase their effects.

Now for my question.

This may seem like a stupid question, but I will ask any way. What is ambient occlusion? I have seen a few people mention it, and its apparant absence from the newest versions of mental ray, but I'm fairly new to it so maybe I missed something. You don't have to completely explain it to me, maybe just point me to a website that explains what it is.

Thanks.

floze
11-23-2004, 02:20 PM
Lets point you to http://animus.brinkster.net/ and do some research on 'dirtmap'

Gremlin
11-24-2004, 03:08 AM
Gremlin, you may want to play around with the algorithm control's scale factor under the material. The values are computed in millimeters, and if your working units are in inches will will have to change the scale to 2.4, or whatever the conversion factor is. You might also try changing the weights of the scatter layers in the material to increase their effects.

Now for my question.

This may seem like a stupid question, but I will ask any way. What is ambient occlusion? I have seen a few people mention it, and its apparant absence from the newest versions of mental ray, but I'm fairly new to it so maybe I missed something. You don't have to completely explain it to me, maybe just point me to a website that explains what it is.

Thanks.my working units are default, which I assume is centimeters.... changing the weights of the scatter layers, I dunno, the 2nd layer didnt even see to have any effect. I could a sort of transluscent type look, but as far as it really looking like light was passing through skin (like in lazzhar's image) ...yeah, not even close.

can someone post their shader so I can examin their settings? I already spent maybe 40 minutes playing around, but I couldnt really get anything that looks that good... also, if I want ambient occlusion (dirtmap in this case) how do I apply it to this shader?

Gremlin
11-24-2004, 03:46 AM
ok, with HEAVY (heavy heavy) photoshop manipulation...I came up with this using the SSS shader as a base (there is also a dirtmap pass)

but the lighting was very simplistic, just one directional light....

http://www.sassysusiebutler.com/tweak.jpg

its a bit dark for my taste (but if it were a final image, the base lighting woulda been improved upon) anywho, it looks pretty cool in my opinion (specially for a head with no texture yet) but, it doesnt look too SSS'y ...but maybe thats good? wax heads = no good....

edit:
rofl, leave it to me to forgot the layer combination that created the above image which I rather liked... the best I could replicate was:

http://www.sassysusiebutler.com/tweak2.jpg

ughh.... anywho, ambient occlusion below:

http://www.sassysusiebutler.com/tweak3.jpg

sort of annoying that I lost it that layer combination...
i'll find it again eventually.

popol
11-24-2004, 02:37 PM
i don't know if the link was posted before but

this is really interresting .

http://www.lamrug.org/resources/ssstips.html

jimdaug
11-25-2004, 07:56 AM
Gremlin, check under your animation preferences to make sure you're working in centimeters. if you are, change the algorithm control to 10 (10mm in a cm) or if it is inches to 24.1. If you are working in feet or something else I don't know what the conversion is. I'm making this point again, because it can make a big difference, just check it and make sure. Also increasing the scatter depth on the back scatter attribute will help give it that red glow like in lazzhar's pic.

You said you followed jozvex's tutorial, so did I so we should have fairly similar networks to start with. it helps to have more than just 1 directional light (I use 3 spot lights) and make sure the lights tranforms are connected to both the fast_Skin's light slots and the lightMap light slots.

As far as the attributes go, defaults are ok, like you a little waxy. I lowered the spec colors to about 60% of the default and put the overall spec weight at .3. I also mapped a Maya leather texture to the top epidermal layer color using an orange color for the cell, and a red color for the crease. It obviously is not real looking, but it breaks up the color enough to help. Custom painted textures would be the best to use. That's about all I can remember at the moment (Don't have Maya open).
http://www.utdallas.edu/~jld032000/SSS/sss_test.jpg
ps. Check your preferences for working units!!

Jako
11-26-2004, 04:59 PM
This is my test with the misss.
I use the mix8layer with misss, some blinn shaders and an oren nayar as
the base.
I have only applied a simple color and bumpmap.
I need some advises, because it don't quite look like skin.
http://www.2d-or-not-2d.de/guys/jako/maya/CharacterGirl/images/head40kl.jpg

Dr. Ira Kane
11-27-2004, 10:23 AM
And it won't untill you make some good maps for color bump and spec, then light it correctly. Btw i see many ppl thinking that the sss will do the job for them, no it won't! you still have to be able to model a 'realistic' face ( which btw your Jako isn't ), or some stylised one (like Gremlin's) then paint some fine maps with pores wrinkles etc and then light it properly, and then maybe you will fool others that this is a real person not cg or at least neatly done cg head. It looks like the head with backlight and sss-red ear will be soon next to lensflares, checkboards and glass balls :D

Osaires
11-27-2004, 08:01 PM
oh yes, this is a very good shader.

but it gives strange results when i use the ambient light.

and i can't realy get it to work with fg, the fg doesn't affect the sub surface only the surface. so i get a diffuse reflection only when i turn my light down to 0 intensety and fg on. i'm sure i'm doning somthing wroung.

i must be blind, there is a check box inn the lightmap shader "include indirect lighting" i just checkd that and it works ;)
sorry about that

jimdaug
11-28-2004, 07:03 AM
Off topic. I brought this up before, but this will be the last time in this thread (I might start a new one). I was wondering how gremlin set up his ambient occlusion pass to include the shadow information. With the dirtmap shader, I can only get the ambient pass to look like a final gather with a white sphere (but much faster, which = cooool ). Thanks.

Jozvex
11-28-2004, 07:26 AM
He may be doing something like:

Dirtmap.outColor -> RGB to HSV
RGB to HSB.value (the v part) -> MyShader.diffuse

That way your regular lighting gives you the brightness and shadows, and the dirtmap is just darkening the creases etc.

jimdaug
11-28-2004, 08:06 AM
thanks jozvex, that works perfectly.

Gremlin
11-28-2004, 01:38 PM
He may be doing something like:

Dirtmap.outColor -> RGB to HSV
RGB to HSB.value (the v part) -> MyShader.diffuse

That way your regular lighting gives you the brightness and shadows, and the dirtmap is just darkening the creases etc.teehee, I'll have to try that...

I was actually comping 2 renders in photoshop :rolleyes:

kaynine
11-30-2004, 05:10 AM
Hi All

Below is my result with the misss shader. The model and texture is from Poser. I've pluged the texturemap into the Diffuse Colour with .7 weight, Overall Colour is white. I've switched Epidermal off, got Sub-dermal at red, .3 weight. Backscatter is also red with weight 1. So basically I'm only using 1 level of sss (out of the 2), and just using a standard diffuse map.

This render has a HDRI image for ibl, and fg at 300 rays. There is also a point light. Without the pointlight I get very blotchy results with the misss shader (where all lighting is coming from the hdri image). Anyone else have the same problem? You can see traces of it where her hair meets the skin, and on the back of her neck. I tried spinning the hdri image, using high samples, etc, and nothing seemed to fix it.

As for Scale Conversion.....I dissagree with everything that has be said about this! I'm running with cm, and have scale at 1. I've used a distance tool to measure the required scatter radius and depths and it works. Changing the scale to 10 takes away the sss effect.

Overall - extremely impressed with this shader.

floze
11-30-2004, 03:41 PM
As for Scale Conversion.....I dissagree with everything that has be said about this! I'm running with cm, and have scale at 1. I've used a distance tool to measure the required scatter radius and depths and it works. Changing the scale to 10 takes away the sss effect.
The fact that the table in the mentalray shaders guide is based upon empirical data which have been obtained at a millimeter scale lets me guess the other sss phenomena are also intended to be used at this scale (to get realistic 'like-in-real-world-scattering'). This is due to the wavelength dependency of scattering. But in the end its up to you of course. If you think the sss effect is too low with adjusted scale - ok! The decision is - like in every shading model - up to you.

MasterZap
11-30-2004, 03:54 PM
The fact that the table in the mentalray shaders guide is based upon empirical data which have been obtained at a millimeter scale lets me guess the other sss phenomena are also intended to be used at this scale (to get realistic 'like-in-real-world-scattering'). This is due to the wavelength dependency of scattering. But in the end its up to you of course. If you think the sss effect is too low with adjusted scale - ok! The decision is - like in every shading model - up to you.The physical shader indeed really works internally in millimeter at all times, this is due to physical scatter coefficients tending to be published in that unit. The scale_conversion of the physical_shader is needed, because it is very difficult to convert the scale of a per-unit extinction coefficient... you can't just multiply it by ten or divide by ten to convert from mm to cm... because it's an exponential falloff factor.... 0.001 per millimeter does NOT equal 0.01 per centimeter!! You have to do log and trig and stuff, hairy.

The misss_fast shader has "scale_conversion" for symmetry and convenience. The fast shader works in NO particular unit. The only unit-related is that the defaults happen to be mm values - nothing else.

So changing the epidermal scattering from 8 to 0.8 is exactly the same thing as keeping it at 8 and setting scale_conversion to 10. Because this is a radius - a distance, not a per-unit extinction or scattering coeffecient. The misss_fast shader is non physical, and simply scatters this distance, period. The scale_conversion is there for convenience; if you have some settings that "work" for skin in one unit, and change to another, it saves you the time to divide 4 different values by some factor... you just plug the factor into "scale_conversion".

Btw, kaynine, fantastic picture, my applause, especially since you didn't even use the epidermal layer!!

/Z

j00ey
11-30-2004, 06:17 PM
just been trawling through the wealth of knowledge above [thanks all] and have been doing some tests and am beginning to get the hang of it [fast_simple at least] and i thought it would be a good idea to link the x size of my render settings [via a multiply X2] to the x dimension of the lightmap and the y render size to the y dimension

but... i can't find the right node. i've turned off DAG nodes only in the outliner, turned on auxilliary nodes, tried guessing the name and doing select -r, but all i've found so far is default resolution, resolution1 and other stuff that's not what i'm looking for.

can anyone help? perhaps it's a bad idea for some reason i've not thought.
thanks in advance
j

MasterZap
11-30-2004, 06:32 PM
just been trawling through the wealth of knowledge above [thanks all] and have been doing some tests and am beginning to get the hang of it [fast_simple at least] and i thought it would be a good idea to link the x size of my render settings [via a multiply X2] to the x dimension of the lightmap and the y render size to the y dimension
Here's a couple of lines of .mel code that may help you, $mrTexture should contain the name of the mental ray texture

expression -s ($mrTexture + ".miWidth = miDefaultFramebuffer.width * 2");
expression -s ($mrTexture + ".miHeight = miDefaultFramebuffer.height");

/Z

j00ey
11-30-2004, 06:49 PM
Thanks very much Master Zap
I'll try it
j

jimdaug
12-01-2004, 11:24 PM
The physical shader indeed really works internally in millimeter at all times, this is due to physical scatter coefficients tending to be published in that unit. The scale_conversion of the physical_shader is needed, because it is very difficult to convert the scale of a per-unit extinction coefficient... you can't just multiply it by ten or divide by ten to convert from mm to cm... because it's an exponential falloff factor.... 0.001 per millimeter does NOT equal 0.01 per centimeter!! You have to do log and trig and stuff, hairy.

The misss_fast shader has "scale_conversion" for symmetry and convenience. The fast shader works in NO particular unit. The only unit-related is that the defaults happen to be mm values - nothing else.

So changing the epidermal scattering from 8 to 0.8 is exactly the same thing as keeping it at 8 and setting scale_conversion to 10. Because this is a radius - a distance, not a per-unit extinction or scattering coeffecient. The misss_fast shader is non physical, and simply scatters this distance, period. The scale_conversion is there for convenience; if you have some settings that "work" for skin in one unit, and change to another, it saves you the time to divide 4 different values by some factor... you just plug the factor into "scale_conversion".

/Z
Well, I can't argue with that. Thanks for clearing that up Zap. I also would like to give props to Kaynine. Looks good.

kaynine
12-02-2004, 03:22 AM
OK, the more I use this shader, the more 'interesting' things I find about it...

1) The image above was done using only the sub-dermal layer. It actually looks better just using the dermal layer. It's odd, but the sub-dermal layer scatter radius seems to have no (or little) effect. I (mistakenly) thought sub dermal and dermal were the same - just that you put a bigger scatter radius in one. But this does not seem to be the case. The same weight/radius/colour in one does not render the same as the other (with everything else turned off).

2) Back scattering seems to be quite 'spotty'. Increasing the samples in the lightmap seems to smooth things out.

3) If you watch a movie, where they use bright lighting, you see a lot of sss on the actors faces (specially the guys, who wear less make-up). The brightly lit skin (facing the light) is white/cream colour. It's the less brightly lit skin (not directly facing the light) that goes quite red. Simulating this with this shader is not so easy, since it 'reddens' both the bright, and not so bright areas, making everything red. So the trick seems to be to have either the diffuse or the dermal quite blue/green, to offset the red from the sub-derm, making the brightly lit areas white, not red.

MasterZap
12-02-2004, 09:37 AM
OK, the more I use this shader, the more 'interesting' things I find about it...

1) The image above was done using only the sub-dermal layer. It actually looks better just using the dermal layer. It's odd, but the sub-dermal layer scatter radius seems to have no (or little) effect. I (mistakenly) thought sub dermal and dermal were the same - just that you put a bigger scatter radius in one. But this does not seem to be the case. The same weight/radius/colour in one does not render the same as the other (with everything else turned off).It is, however, each instance of misss_fast shares the sampling pattern definied by the largest of it's "front" and "back" radii. Generally, your "subdermal" and "back" radii are similar(ish), so them sharing a sampling pattern works.

Epidermal radius is much smaller, and hence gets it's own layer of misss_fast (if you study how the skin Phenomenon is actually set up, see http://www.lamrug.org/resources/phentips.html)

Hence, if you use only the skin Phenomenon's subdermal and back, and set their radii wildly different, you will get strange results (the one with the smaller radius will get a poorer sampling performance).

2) Back scattering seems to be quite 'spotty'. Increasing the samples in the lightmap seems to smooth things out.This could be a result of the above. Your subdermal and back should be of the same-ish size. If you want a very different radius, do that in the separate epidermal layer (which is a separate instance of the shader)

3) If you watch a movie, where they use bright lighting, you see a lot of sss on the actors faces (specially the guys, who wear less make-up). The brightly lit skin (facing the light) is white/cream colour. It's the less brightly lit skin (not directly facing the light) that goes quite red. Simulating this with this shader is not so easy, since it 'reddens' both the bright, and not so bright areas, making everything red. So the trick seems to be to have either the diffuse or the dermal quite blue/green, to offset the red from the sub-derm, making the brightly lit areas white, not red. Is "screen composit" on? Have you played with the lightmap gamma?

But you are right, setting the unscattered diffuse to a complementary color (something blueish) tends to work quite well to generate this effect.

For more information I direct thee to the LA mental ray Users Group site, specifically http://www.lamrug.org/resources/skintips.html and the tutorial posted there (top link).

/Z

kaynine
12-02-2004, 10:00 AM
Ah-ha....two layers - that explains it.

Yes, screen composite is on. I remember reading about it - needs to be on for GI and off for lighting (or something like that). I played a little with gamma, but need to do more.

The link to your pdf tutorial (on LAMRUG) doesn't work (needs the second "resources" removed).
Interesting effect when you increase the bump-map - see below. Where the light directly hits the surface with a heavy bump, the red pools in the holes (skin pores). However, where the light travels through a transparent material (the hair cap), this does not happen.

Joss
12-03-2004, 12:31 AM
Is that Maya Hair Kaynine? If so, how are you rendering with Mental R.?

kaynine
12-03-2004, 05:54 AM
Couple more points....

1) As Master Zap said, no matter what units you are working with, if you enter a 5 in a radius box, it means 5mm. So to make life simple, scale your model to around the 2m mark.

2) Again, as Master Zap said, always keep the radius for subderm and back scatter similar (or the same).

3) Having a cancelling effect between epi and sub derm works well. To make the well lit skin white, and less well lit red, use R0, G1, B1 in the epi, with weight around .35 and radius at 1. Then for subderm, use R1, G0, B0, with weight at .5 and radius at 25. Seems to work better with composite is on, and diffuse (for me) is at .8.

4) Joss, the hair is not Maya hair - it's just a poly model with texture and trans maps....used in Poser.

MasterZap
12-03-2004, 09:59 AM
kaynine

Strange... to me it looks almost as if the bump is disappearing completely under the hair cover. Could you make a render w. the scattering turned off (weights to zero), only diffuse, and exaggerate the bump? And conversely one w. only the scattered (diffuse/specular weights to zero)

Couple more points....
1) As Master Zap said, no matter what units you are working with, if you enter a 5 in a radius box, it means 5mm. So to make life simple, scale your model to around the 2m mark.
That wasnt what I said ;)

I said if scale_conversion is 1.0, the number you put in is in whatever unit your model is.

2) Again, as Master Zap said, always keep the radius for subderm and back scatter similar (or the same). At least ballpark same.

The back DEPTH however can be anything.

As for the other point - agreed!

/Z

rollmops
12-03-2004, 10:53 AM
Could I get a help about install?

To get a quick install I made a file.bat . It works fine but not on one single machine which abort at the bigining of the rendering. :D
API 0.0 error 301031: call to undeclared function "misss_fast_simple_maya"
API 0.0 error 301031: call to undeclared function "misss_fast_lmap_maya"
API 0.0 error 301032: while defining material "misss_fast_simple_maya1SG": undefined shader "misss_fast_simple_maya1"
API 0.0 error 301032: while defining material "misss_fast_simple_maya1SG": undefined shader "misss_fast_lmap_maya1"


So here is the install.bat
copy /Y W:\sss_bonusTool\include\subsurface.mi "C:\Program Files\Alias\Maya6.0\mentalray\include\"
copy /Y W:\sss_bonusTool\lib\ntx86\subsurface.dll "C:\Program Files\Alias\Maya6.0\mentalray\lib\"
copy /Y W:\sss_bonusTool\scripts\* "C:\Program Files\Alias\Maya6.0\scripts\AETemplates"
copy /Y W:\sss_bonusTool\icons\xpm\* "C:\Program Files\Alias\Maya6.0\icons\"
copy /Y W:\sss_bonusTool\icons\fti\* "C:\Program Files\Alias\Maya6.0\icons\"
rem copy maya.rayrc "C:\Program Files\Alias\Maya6.0\mentalray\"
pause


And when I open the MR shader manager, the subsurface.mi is loaded.
Now I'm calling for help! :shrug:

kaynine
12-04-2004, 05:31 AM
Master Zap

1) Attached render as requested. Left image is diffuse at 1.0 - no scattering. Bump is overdone at 0.1. Thought I read somewhere that bump only effects spec, however it seems to impact scattered too. On the right is epi and sub derm only (both at 1.0 - obviously too much) - no diffuse. Note on this image the spec seems to be being amplified thru the transparent material (probably happening on the left image too - but harder to see).

2) Thanks for the clarification on units.

MasterZap
12-05-2004, 09:47 AM
Thats odd, but seems to have more to do with bumpmaps than SSS per se. How are you applying the bumps? Which nodes do you use?

/Z

animalunae
12-05-2004, 10:05 AM
Seen some great renders here so far!

I used the misss_fast_simple node. I've been tweaking my front SSS values, could you guys give me some pointers on what to tune up or down?

Someone said the face needed more glow, so I increased the Front SSS Weight from 1.5 to 2, then I felt it was too bright generally, so I lowered the Front SSS Radius from 5 to 2.

http://home.pi.be/%7Ederbyq/SSSTweak.jpg

MasterZap
12-05-2004, 10:58 AM
Your renders look pretty good all three (cool guy too!), but I'd say they need some specularity before looking really "skin like".

As for people saying "It needs more glow", I suggest you go by the "wisdom" (heh) I tried to inject into the tutorial you can find on the LAmrUG site, that, if you can see the SSS, it's probably too much.

Just my 0.02 universal credits.

/Z

kaynine
12-06-2004, 03:56 AM
Master Zap....I'm applying the bump map as a file, with the file outAlpha pluged into the bumpValue of a 2d bump node, and it's outNormal plugged into misss.normalCamera.

These units are slightly confusing. I'm working in metres. My model is 2m's tall. And my scatterer length is 10 - and visually it seems to be scattering around 10mm. Then I change my units to mm. Rerender, and the rays scatter exactly the same length. To me it certainly appears that scatter length is in mm regardless of your units. Scale Conversion is 1 in both cases.

MasterZap
12-06-2004, 11:15 AM
These units are slightly confusing. I'm working in metres. My model is 2m's tall. And my scatterer length is 10 - and visually it seems to be scattering around 10mm. Then I change my units to mm. Rerender, and the rays scatter exactly the same length. To me it certainly appears that scatter length is in mm regardless of your units. Scale Conversion is 1 in both cases.
You may be right, I do not know Maya's unit management enough to say one way or the other.

I know some applications has a "system unit" (which means, what does really 1.0 stored internally in an actual coordinate in a file really mean) and "display units" which is just a user-interface dialog-box-dislpay-time conversion. Internally the program still uses the "system units" but if you have requested display in furlongs, you get that (and you enter values in that, which are converted from furlongs to millimeters behind the scenes)

/Z

floze
12-06-2004, 02:27 PM
Just changing the units in maya wont help. If you changed your units from meter to centimeter your model would get 200 centimeters tall instead of 2 meters - and the 10 millimeters would still remain the same. Its a bit confusing. But changing the units doesnt scale anything in your scene.

kaynine
12-07-2004, 01:42 AM
Hi, some more tests attached. These are using a diffuse texturemap (with red backed-off) in the diffuse and epi layer, then adding red with the subderm and back scatter (as per Zap's tutorial). Epi scatter tradius is 3, and subderm 10. With bigger numbers, the sss effect is overdone.

First image is with 1 pointlight. Second is with fg plus mr ibl (flat colour). Third is fg plus the point light, plus a hdri image. The third looks overexposured to me - might try again with composite on. I think the spec needs increasing on the third too.

I'm still getting the problem with the bump map behind the hair cap, although it's not so obvious in the fg renders.

I tried to get sss for her eyes, but the eye model I'm using has multiple textures for the poly object, so misss doesn't work for it.

GatorNic
12-07-2004, 04:16 AM
Got a question for you all.

Do animated displacement maps cause any problems with the fast_skin shader's calculations? Say in areas where the displacements would be greater than normal, like in the brow region. Specifically I am thinking of using displacement maps for the wrinkling of the brow.

This would also be a good question for models with numerous "deep" displacments coming from say ZBrush.

playmesumch00ns
12-07-2004, 09:41 AM
kaynine: I think the sss effect is overblown in all of them. She looks a bit like a slush puppy. As a general rule, if you can tell there's definitely sss and not just good lighting and texturing, then it's overdone.

animalunae
12-07-2004, 10:20 AM
Hey, I added too much specularity, what do you guys think?

Headspin 1.1 MB (http://home.pi.be/%7Ederbyq/HeadSpin.avi)

MasterZap
12-07-2004, 12:48 PM
Hey, I added too much specularity, what do you guys think?

Headspin 1.1 MB (http://home.pi.be/%7Ederbyq/HeadSpin.avi)
Dont think so... I am more worried about the location of some of it... there is some specularity popping out under the eye which is an area where I'd expect specularity to be kinda low.... whereas on a potentially sweaty forehead there could be more, perhaps.

One thing about this model; Does the texture contain those dark areas around the eyes? And have you mapped the texture in the "overall diffuse" slot? If so, maybe you should try the route from the tutorial where you map it into the 'unscattered diffuse' and 'epidermal' slots, and leave 'subdermal' untextured.

Othewise, the dark texture will override any scattering such that a black area in the texture will never ever see any scattering going into it. I think this may make the area-around-the-eyes a wee bit TOO dark looking.

Also pop in a background and use the environment reflections of the shader.... you never see a person in a black room like that, he needs a little bit of environment to reflect.

You can cheat and use the "only reflect environment" option and it won't be a big speed hit (and potentually multiply the environment reflection level w. your dirtmap shaders output). Make sure to make the edges reflect a lot more than the interior (I tend to use 0.1 reflect weight, and all the way to 1.0 on edge reflect weight)

/Z

grafix
12-07-2004, 01:06 PM
Hey MasterZap,

I just saw your tutorial on lamrug.org. Really, really great stuff ! Thanks a lot, the links are also working now:

http://www.lamrug.org/resources/doc/sss-skin-shader-tutorial.pdf

and

http://www.lamrug.org/resources/doc/sss-tutorial-files.zip

:applause:

MasterZap
12-07-2004, 01:40 PM
Bump is overdone at 0.1. Thought I read somewhere that bump only effects spec, however it seems to impact scattered too. On the right is epi and sub derm only (both at 1.0 - obviously too much) - no diffuse. Note on this image the spec seems to be being amplified thru the transparent material (probably happening on the left image too - but harder to see).
I think I solved your Bump issue. It's not an error in the SSS shader, it seems to be in the bump2d node. Open "Effects" and turn "Bump filter" to zero.

Somehow, the bump filtering gets based on the occluding geometry (your transparent hair cap) and not the actually bumped geometry. Or possibly bumps get filtered twice, once in the file node, once in the bump2d node. Or something. I dont know. I am not a maya geek ;)

But I know that my test file that exhibited your behaviour stopped doing it when I turned "Bump filter" to zero.

/Z

animalunae
12-07-2004, 03:32 PM
Thanks for the comments Zap. I used a HDRI map for lighting and reflection. I'll have to map the specularity now, you are right, some areas, have too much, others too little...

I have probably textured the area around the eyes too dark, correct.
I used a simple_fast shader node, so I used two textured for the sss layers and I put the top layer in the overall color, because I simply didn't know what to map where, I experimented a bit and this came out best I guess... I'm gonna see what I can do about the areas around the eyes. I've just sculpted some more on the face and it now looks sorta like this:

http://home.pi.be/%7Ederbyq/Denton_21.jpg

MasterZap
12-07-2004, 03:44 PM
Love the beard. How is that made?

Hmm... he looks like the guy from "Reign of Fire". :)

Have you tried pumping up the "reflection edge weight"? Skin reflects a lot more at an angle than head on (a "fresnel effect"). Although you need to use misss_fast_skin_maya instead of misss_fast_simple_maya to get those options. "simple" is basically a dumbed down version with less options, "skin" is the full thing. More or less. :)

/Z

animalunae
12-07-2004, 05:17 PM
I could also feed the reflectivity a camera angle ramp I guess... perhaps I'll put some time into figuring out the other nodes... The beard is simply fur, but it's not how I want it, I wished there's some easy way to add translucency to the beard...

siamak2004max
12-07-2004, 06:47 PM
hi
my name is siamak
i need some help
i want to l=know where can i download the sss plugin for maya 6
e_mail me the address for download the sss plugin please (maya6_sss_mi_plugin)
my e_mail: siamak_roshani@yahoo.com
thanks
bye.

Waters
12-08-2004, 06:51 AM
I wanted to do a test of this new sss shader. I created a cheese slice similar to the render on the lightengine3d site. The sss uses a point light and hdri/final gathering. (plate and cheese have sss)

http://www.rit.edu/~mmw4110/ssscheese02.jpg

MarkAW
12-08-2004, 09:17 PM
Hi Master Zap,

How do I simulate higher concentrations of melanin in the skin using the fast shin shader?


Thanks

Mark


----
Edit;
Hey this posted!

2 posts, I wonder where the other one is?

BonoMan
12-08-2004, 11:35 PM
I am trying to get this to work and just can't. No SSS at all on the dragon scene.

In the tut they have this to say:

In order to render correctly the scene files included with this tutorial you must point to the required files on your disk/local network:



point to the correct shader libraries and declaration files: physics, base and subsurface
point to the file textures "wood.iff", "riverscene.jpg"
point to the external geometry file "dragon.mi" (you'll find it zipped, remember to uncompress)


Please modify all the scene files in your local /tutorials/dragon/mi_scenes folder.


How on earth do I point to external geometry and correct shader libraries? I've done all the other install stuff correctly...sorry I have no freakin' knowledge of MR (well a little).

MR's results are awesome but they really should have a MR for Dummies version built into Maya.

dynamic duotone
12-09-2004, 02:44 PM
Bonoman,

You will need to add a light map - that tut they give you is missing this attribute.

1. Open your SSS shader in the hypershade window.

2. spread out the shader network so that you can see the Shader Group node

3. Open your SSS shader group node in the attribute editor

4. scroll down to the lightmap slot, and then click the add node button

5. scroll down through the mental ray shaders to the Light Map shaders and chose "misss_fast_lmap_maya"

6. then in the misss_fast_lmap_maya attributes set your settings close to the same as one of my previous posts in this thread (do a search)

7. Under the Lightmap Write -->lightmap attribute, click the add node button - this will add an automatic mentalrayTexture node (has a red "x" as shown in the hypershade work area)

8. open this MentalrayTexture node and turn on Write and Local checkboxes, change the Depth to 32 bits, and then set the Width and height to the same size as what you are going to render at...but then, multiply the width by 2 - ex render 640x480 then the width should be 1280, but only set the height to 480 still.

9 finally, go back to your SSS shader in the attribute editor and under it's Lightmap attribute Middle Mouse drag your MentalrayTexture in to the lightmap node slot. So basically the MentalrayTexture should be connected to two spots - your lightmap of the SSS shader node and the lightmap slot of the misss_fast_lmap_maya node.

BonoMan
12-09-2004, 05:46 PM
Bonoman,

You will need to add a light map - that tut they give you is missing this attribute.

1. Open your SSS shader in the hypershade window.

2. spread out the shader network so that you can see the Shader Group node

3. Open your SSS shader group node in the attribute editor

4. scroll down to the lightmap slot, and then click the add node button

5. scroll down through the mental ray shaders to the Light Map shaders and chose "misss_fast_lmap_maya"

6. then in the misss_fast_lmap_maya attributes set your settings close to the same as one of my previous posts in this thread (do a search)

7. Under the Lightmap Write -->lightmap attribute, click the add node button - this will add an automatic mentalrayTexture node (has a red "x" as shown in the hypershade work area)

8. open this MentalrayTexture node and turn on Write and Local checkboxes, change the Depth to 32 bits, and then set the Width and height to the same size as what you are going to render at...but then, multiply the width by 2 - ex render 640x480 then the width should be 1280, but only set the height to 480 still.

9 finally, go back to your SSS shader in the attribute editor and under it's Lightmap attribute Middle Mouse drag your MentalrayTexture in to the lightmap node slot. So basically the MentalrayTexture should be connected to two spots - your lightmap of the SSS shader node and the lightmap slot of the misss_fast_lmap_maya node.Thanks for all that but my Dragon scene already came with all that setup (I went through your steps just to be sure anyways. I'm still not sure what's going on.

edit: Here are my SSS shader and miss_fast_simple nodes

dynamic duotone
12-09-2004, 06:25 PM
Under the MentalrayTexture node -

In the Image Name attribute -- erase whatever you have written in there...leaving it blank, then try to render.

Does that help?

DD

floze
12-09-2004, 06:36 PM
I also had problems creating the lightmap, but this method helped me:
Instead of writing the name of the texture (which doesnt exist at first) into the 'Image Name' field, create a void file and point it there. For example, you could create a blank textfile with notepad and delete the extension - then simply 'load' this file as the writable texture.

BonoMan
12-09-2004, 07:42 PM
Under the MentalrayTexture node -

In the Image Name attribute -- erase whatever you have written in there...leaving it blank, then try to render.

Does that help?

DD
That was it! Thanks! I figured that needed to be changed...to what I don't know but I obviously knew it needed to be relevant to my computer. However why it actually STOPS SSS from working I don't know.

vander
12-09-2004, 10:50 PM
Hi. This shader is very cool.
I'm learning mental ray 3.3 core (with Maya 6) and I'm testing the shader MISSS.
Mi result is not impressive. I'm tunning the parameters.
I have a question: why, when i put the bump map my render look like the image below? Any idea?
This model is modeled by Jan Hofmeister and is part of the tutorial from www.lamrug.org (http://www.lamrug.org)
http://www.myarchspace.com/vander/img/globulous_bump.jpg

Left: my result without the bump map
Right: only the texture map without sss
http://www.myarchspace.com/vander/img/sss.jpg

Thanks

gpepper
12-10-2004, 04:23 PM
Same question:
Is there any particular things to do to put it in the node ? ?
Because when drag and drop it directly in the bump map slot, no bump appears and there are horrible faces in the render ?

I've read all the posts about this shader and I didn't find the answer. Thanks !

animalunae
12-10-2004, 04:28 PM
It's out there somewhere though, you can very easily connect the bumnap node to the attributes in the shadernode, then connect a file or whatever to that.

dynamic duotone
12-10-2004, 04:31 PM
Can you post a screen shot of your node map and bump attributes? You may just have your bump height up too high, it's very sensitive. I usually use .06 or lower for skin.

DD

rollmops
12-10-2004, 04:32 PM
Hi vander,

Simply drop a bump2d node in the bump input of the miss shader.
This one needs a "normal" input, not a color.

http://img120.exs.cx/img120/4539/missbump4mj.gif
(http://img120.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img120&image=missbump4mj.gif)

gpepper
12-10-2004, 04:39 PM
I also had problems creating the lightmap, but this method helped me:
Instead of writing the name of the texture (which doesnt exist at first) into the 'Image Name' field, create a void file and point it there. For example, you could create a blank textfile with notepad and delete the extension - then simply 'load' this file as the writable texture.

-you had to create your shader sss then in the lightmap slot
-click and a mentalray texture is created
-click "writable" give it a size (double size of your render size)
-set file size deph to 32 bits, click local...
-give a name of your texture directly in the empty slot like "c:/sssmap"
You don't have to create a file on your hard drive, mentalray will do it...

Then apply your shader to your model

next thing to do is to connect the mentalray texture created in the lightmap of your shader to the lightmap of the shading group of your shader...

-Click on your model, go to the misssshadinggroup in the attribute editor of your model.
-click in the mental ray slot of the shading group. In the custom shader slot in the material shader, there is the misss shader

-there is a lighmap shader slot under. Apply a misss_fast_lmap_maya (from the lightmap slot of the mental ray nodes in the hypershade) in it...
-Then you had to take the mental ray texture created fews seconds ago, and put it in the lightmap write slot of the misss_fast_lmap_maya...

Put some lights in your scene, (front and backlight) render...

vander
12-10-2004, 05:07 PM
Hi rollmops. Thank you.
I think that is my problem. I put the bump image directly on the bump node, without bump2d node, with FILE node.
I'm test your solution now. I will post the result again.

Sorry, but i donīt know speak english.

siamak2004max
12-10-2004, 05:53 PM
hi
my name is siamak
i want to know how can i make a character shader with fast skin
and i want to know someting about epidermal sccater, subdermal & back face sccater (all things about mi_sss_fast_skin_shader).
how can i get a good result & how can i make a realistic character whit this shader.
please help me.
thanks
bye

vander
12-10-2004, 06:25 PM
Hi. Siamak.
The www.lamrug.org (http://www.lamrug.org/) site have a good tutorial about MISSS shader. On LAST ADDITIONS seccion - ABOVE/RIGHT of the site.

siamak2004max
12-10-2004, 06:37 PM
thank you vander
but can you say somthing about sss_fast_skin shader?
and how does it work good
how much light i must use for a character?
if you say it to me i am gooing to happy
thanks

vander
12-10-2004, 07:06 PM
I"m sorry, siamak; but I don't know how to speak English very well, and I don't also know how to write.
Everything that I learned up to now went reading the tutorials in Lamrug.
I believe that another person that is participating in this thread can explain the operation of MISSS better.

siamak2004max
12-10-2004, 07:15 PM
thanks vander
but i want to know one thing
i want to know what is the (mi) files
the file with the mi format
what does they?
vander if you have any yahoo messenger id give it to me and come to yahoo
my yahoo id : siamak_roshani
add me and give me a pm. i will be there for now
thanks

vander
12-10-2004, 07:31 PM
thanks vander
but i want to know one thing
i want to know what is the (mi) files
the file with the mi format
what does they?
vander if you have any yahoo messenger id give it to me and come to yahoo
my yahoo id : siamak_roshani
add me and give me a pm. i will be there for now
thanks
I think the MI files are only for Mental Ray Standalone. the MI files have the configurations of the shaders. I don't know how its works in Mental Ray Standalone. Maybe importing the MI files to configure the shaders... But the MI files of Globulous tutorials are only for Globulous model. Opening a MI file you can se all parameters of sub scattering, lightmap, etc.

I dont have yahoo messenger, only msn messenger - wanderjoe@hotmail.com

Maybe I can send to you my Globulous file, with my configurations.

siamak2004max
12-10-2004, 07:38 PM
ooooo vander
could you make any yahoo id for know for disscus?
please do that for know and come to yahoo
and add me : siamak_roshani
and one question is how can i open the mi files?
thanks

vander
12-11-2004, 12:47 AM
Some adjusts. Thank you rollmops. The bump is ok now.

http://www.myarchspace.com/vander/img/glob2.jpg

animalunae
12-12-2004, 09:59 PM
I've got a question, to improve the shading on the ear, should I map the weight of the front SSS In my misss node?

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/Denton_24.jpg

zkanal
12-13-2004, 01:14 AM
Hmm...looks to me like your diffuse is what's visible on your ear there.
Try changing the color on your diffuse.

animalunae
12-13-2004, 01:20 AM
I changed the texture a bit, and upped the strength around the ear region.

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/Denton_25.jpg

playmesumch00ns
12-13-2004, 09:04 AM
The first one's better. In either case, if there was backlight strong enough to make his ear glow, it should illuminate his hair much more than his ear. His ear should be redder too.

MasterZap
12-14-2004, 06:54 AM
To anyone with BUMP PROBLEMS

Yes, you must connect via a bump2d or bump3d node.

As noted earlier, you can get filtering problems. I incorrectly stated this could be fixed by turning down the filter. It can - but that just cures the symptom, not the problem.

The REAL FIX for the bump problem is to check the little box "Export with Shading Engine" in the mental ray section of the Shading Group! The bump2d node requires a Shading Engine somewhere in the chain of parents to work!

Hope this helps!

/Z

wizard06
12-15-2004, 07:20 PM
yesterday i read the lamrug tutorials and wanted to save the tutorials and scene files, but now i cant access their website, is it down? Does anyone have the SSS tutorials and scene files anywhere for download. Or any info on when the site will be up? thanks.

floze
12-15-2004, 07:32 PM
Try google cache. Search for the specific site on google and click on the 'Cache' link. For the physical sss this would be http://www.google.de/search?q=cache:iY3ovHx3tHcJ:www.lamrug.org/resources/physsstips.html+lamrug+physical+subsurface&hl=de. But without pics and the files of course.. hope they will be back online soon. :sad:

wizard06
12-15-2004, 07:36 PM
Thanks floze, i didnt know you could do that with google.

floze
12-15-2004, 07:45 PM
Now you know it! And [dark breath] ...use this power... wisely... [/dark breath]. :D :D
There is also another way, the wayback machine of http://www.archive.org/. Unfortunately the latest entry of lamrug.org is from february2004, so no misss...

Jackdeth
12-15-2004, 07:49 PM
I must publicly state my love for this shader. Its P.I.M.P.

vander
12-15-2004, 10:57 PM
Today I had a problem with the shader MISSS.
I gave break connection in the node Light Map Shader (for some reason that I don't remember which) and I created a new light map, connecting another misss_fast_lmap_maya, in other words, now I had a node MentalrayTexture1 that was not using, and a MentalrayTexture2, that I was using.
When I went render the scene, render was aborted - / / Info (Mayatomr): Aborted / /, and an error message appeared in the script editor:

// Warning: (Mayatomr.Shader) : mentalrayTexture2: no texture file referenced //

And the render only worked again when I reconnected mentalrayTexture1.

did I make something wrong, or is a bug of the shader?

dynamic duotone
12-16-2004, 02:08 PM
MentalrayTexture1 should be in both your SSS attributes and your Lightmap Attributes or the shader will not function correctly. So just delete MentalrayTexture2.

See Rollmops thread for the picture of the shader network.

DD

manali
12-16-2004, 02:22 PM
I have download the diffuse zip and the diffuse-formaya . I have put the Diffuse.mi in the mentalray/include file. The Diffusion.dll in the mentalray/lib file. I wrote the 2 lines in the maya.RAYRC file. Now. where the scripts, xpm and fti files ? and alll the other files with CPP, DSP, SPDL, PRESET, DSW and H. where they go ? Can anyone telll me how to doit please.

thanks

popol
12-16-2004, 10:01 PM
i did some test with the misss please guy tell me what do you think about the skin aspect, to much scattering or not?

For the info i plug a occlusion shader in the ambient slot of the misss shader i use a very poor lighting (i point light and a hdr image )


thanks again kaynine for your help : )

mxhaunted
12-18-2004, 05:17 PM
Iím at a bit of a lose ends now. So please excuse this question. Itís been mentioned before but I canít find the answer for it. Iíve set up the scene like in the instructions but it doesnít want to work.:sad:

In Maya Software the object doesnít render and in Mental Ray it keeps on coming up with:

API 0.0 error 301031: call to undeclared function "misss_fast_simple_maya"
API 0.0 error 301031: call to undeclared function "misss_fast_lmap_maya"
API 0.0 error 301032: while defining material "misss_fast_simple_maya1SG": undefined shader "misss_fast_simple_maya1"
API 0.0 error 301032: while defining material "misss_fast_simple_maya1SG": undefined shader "misss_fast_lmap_maya1"

Can anyone help me out, please? This shader looks damn good but Iím just not having much luck getting it working. I only work in games so donít have much call for doing these fiddlier high end renders.:shrug:

Help will be very much appreciated. Thanks

Edit* and subsequently Mental ray does want to work at all since Iíve installed the misss files. :/


MX

fsanimate
12-19-2004, 04:22 PM
My crack at the Globulous model.
http://img156.exs.cx/img156/1746/ghead0zn.jpg

cocopops
12-20-2004, 10:48 AM
Ive had No luck when trying to make the misss_fast_skin shader work with the mix8layer shader..
the scene will render without any sss .. as if the mr lightmap texture was not attached to the skin shader node .. (and i note that it seems as if the lightmap is not actually calculated )

I was sure that someone had found the solution to this problem .. but i cant find any thread disscussing it here ..

Anybody got any answers ?

This is an utterly fantastic shader by the way ...

thanks to Master Zap

cocopops
12-21-2004, 08:44 AM
of course the light map needs to be plugged into the mix20 shading node ..

duh!!!

maxx10
12-21-2004, 10:24 AM
great shader... I've started messing around with it, and basically I'm wondering where would you plug a transparency map in the misss_fast_skin_maya shader??

misha_mk
12-22-2004, 08:24 AM
http://www.3xfx.com/misha/wax.jpg
My first render with missfast. Model made with ZBrush.
comments please:)

cheers
misha

Osaires
12-22-2004, 04:19 PM
i got problems when i apply more than one miss_fast_skin material to one object.

the lightmap doesn't calculate sss.
any solution to this?

tlggungor
12-22-2004, 06:45 PM
woooooooooooow very good thread I love all images.:buttrock:


Would you like to see my 2D CHALLENGE CONCEPTS & CİTİES

Osaires
12-23-2004, 04:29 PM
http://www.cgtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63187&stc=1

here is a image indicating my problem.

the ball to left witch appers almoust black, doesn't have any sss because the ball got two shaders applyed to it, but the ball inn the middle works cause it only got one material applyed.

I read somthing about lightmap_group inn the manual, maby i need to use that to make it work? anyone know how it works?
or how to use more than one shader?

gpepper
12-23-2004, 05:08 PM
I read somthing about lightmap_group inn the manual, maby i need to use that to make it work? anyone know how it works?
or how to use more than one shader?

The lightmap can be attached to several nodes...

cgg
12-29-2004, 12:04 PM
great thread, very good shader !
made some tests my self , here is what i got ...:rolleyes:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/gocg/Miss_Test07.jpg

Bonsai
12-29-2004, 04:04 PM
Hey folks benn following this thread for quite a while. Some very impressive results i have to say ... Finally have the time to fiddle around with this node and i am pretty happy with my results. One question though. I am familiar with the regular mr baking but was wondering whether it is possible to bake the sss solor results into a texture file ? Could not make this work and was wondering whther this is possible at all ...

Thanks
Bonsai

lizardpro
12-30-2004, 09:10 PM
Everyone great posts
Here is a SSS test of my own
http://zubair.lizardpro.net/jessica/misss/1.jpg
http://zubair.lizardpro.net/jessica/misss/2.jpg

-Zubair
Zubair's Portfolio (http://zubair.lizardpro.net)

sonicstrawbery
01-05-2005, 03:40 PM
Awesome renders now with this shader and it's very easy to use !
Having played a bit with the shader and made a basic skin look...but what are those little point in the reds part...i tried to tweak the attributes but didn't find what control them... i've looked over the majority of the thread and didn't find an answer...
My image have any bump or color textures...just the basic shader with the lightmaps...and little photoshop color correction :)

http://daftbinaries.250free.com/female-sss.jpg

i'm giving a try with textures and bumps...
good work everyone !:thumbsup:

popol
01-05-2005, 05:08 PM
maybe try to adjust the scale conversion attribute of the shader