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andrewley
08-17-2004, 11:42 AM
The aim of this model is to resemble a Burne Hogarth anatomy illustration.

Focused crits needed.

andrewley
08-17-2004, 04:38 PM
No crits? Well I've added the feet.

Bracer
08-18-2004, 01:57 AM
Wah...... Rocks Man !
Looks Nice !

I Don't See Problems, But Due To The Super Defination On The Arms, You Would Think The Torso Needs A Bit More Too! heh

andrewley
08-18-2004, 02:05 AM
Cheers bud - You're right the arms are more defined. I thinking of toning them down to match the rest of the body.

Update:

Bracer
08-18-2004, 02:10 AM
I Cannot Take This Any Longer! This Is Really Good Modelling Man!


Unlike Those Model Of "Girls" Thats Just Pure Meshsmooth, This Is The Real Deal !


But Anyway! Your Bicep is DOOM ! Make Its Bigger !

And Face Is Like The Kind Of Face I ALWAYS Draw ! Haaaaaaaaaaa

Hope That When Its Time To Model My Own Head It Doesn't Look Like Yours !

Well Impossible, You're Too Good For Me. Haaaaaaaaaaaa

andrewley
08-18-2004, 03:15 PM
lol - thanks a lot Bracer.

Still need some serious, hardcore anatomy crits though...this is the focused crits forum - be brutal :)

Heres the wires

http://img24.exs.cx/img24/4282/ARM12.jpg

assafk
08-19-2004, 02:17 AM
Wow great model! Really amazing stuff u got there!
my only critique is that I think he should have 8 squares (I hope this is the correct word...) in his belly instead of 6...

andrewley
08-19-2004, 06:14 PM
Cheers bud - I know what you mean about the abs. The lower abs are less deifined but they are there.

Heres and update on the head.

cha0t1c1
08-19-2004, 06:31 PM
okay, If it's possible, post a side, front, and back renders(not wireframe). your lats are improportional, quads partially incorrect, calves undefined at the bottom, pectorials undefined... greatwork otherwise...

andrewley
08-19-2004, 06:46 PM
Here are the views you asked for.

elqui
08-21-2004, 12:49 PM
hi andrew, you wanted an anatomy crit, so here goes. First off though lovely modelling, you've certainly got the knack of defining the muscle shapes etc.

1) first things first, what's happened to his arse? it's riding REALLY low and 'sinking' inward together too much, the gluteus maximus is solid muslce, hence it tends not to do much sagging (well ok that's a generalisation but THIS guy's bum doesn't sag)

2) on the forearms you seem to have 1 or 2 extra muscles that I've never seen before, it could be the angle but there's something there that need attention

3) in the profile view he's leaning forward a hell of a lot - is there a reason for this? if not I'd recommend straightening him out, you can always rig him later

4) for such a muscular guy his thighs at the back seem a little too thin and he has pretty thin anles, which isn't necessarily wrong but you need to decide the size of the guy's bone structure, is his skeleton heavy, thin, wide, compact? this will show through in the placement of the muscles as well as where you can directly obvserve the bones

5) the head's not too bad, I feel maybe the mouth is too low on the face but some people are quite like that sometimes, still I'd raise it slightly - also the ear seem a little 'loose' in the bottom half, try bringing it in at the middle some more, creating more an 'ear' shape in the profile view

6) knee caps and lower front thigh musculature needs some attention

7) the splenius (the muscle that join the neck to the shoulders) is coming to too central a point in the neck, it spreads further to the sides than this, it connnects (partly) with the mastoid process on the back of the skull (the two 'bulbs' behind the ear)

8) the two dominant muscles on the back don't look right, the trapezius looks too defined and too bulbous, lessen the geometry there a bit

Hope this helps, good luck with it and keep up the good work.

Do you mind if people markup your images with text and arrows, just thought that it might be easier to 'draw-and-point' rather than describing everything

Kepe it up, nice work!

andrewley
08-21-2004, 01:07 PM
Awesome crits elqui! Thanks a lot man thats the kind of stuff I need to here :)

I think pretty much all your points are correct so I'll start making the changes now.

Heres an update from other peoples crits - sorry about the crappy skin shader :)

elqui
08-21-2004, 03:16 PM
Glad it helped some dude, took a coupla minutes out to do a liquify job to show you some of the key points - keep up the cool work!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/elqui/front_edit.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/elqui/back_edit.jpg

andrewley
08-21-2004, 03:29 PM
Wow cool! I like what you've done with the pecs, theigh and neck - very helpful.

Not sure about the ass though... but I think I understand the point your making.

Thanks for taking the time out to do this-much appreciated!

elqui
08-21-2004, 03:49 PM
Not sure about the ass though... but I think I understand the point your making.
haha! yeah I've been modelling big-assed women lately I think my eyes have been skewered a little in the 'oversize' direction!
but yeah you get waht I mean, the top of the gluteus maximus begins at the same point on the back as the hip bone protrudes on the front, feel around your waist and you'll see what I mean

andrewley
08-21-2004, 04:44 PM
Ok changes made. I tried making the thighs bigger but it didn't achieve the look I'm going for. I think it will look better when the legs are brought together.

The ass has been raised but I have observed that the gluteus medius interrrupts just before the hipbone.

Pecks have been made bigger and re-shaped. Neck muscles have also been re-shaped and I think they look much better.

Cheers elqui

elqui
08-21-2004, 06:00 PM
hey nice work andrew, the neck is definately looking better, though maybe they could be further apart still but hey, that's nit pickin'!

spot on about the gluteus medius, it does come between the hip and the maximus, it's attached to the curved inner surface of the hip (according to my book, the 'dorsal surface of ilium' :surprised ) - it says "(the gluteus medius) creates a very definite rounded form at the upper and lateral side of the hip" - so yeah you need to account for that

there's still quite a gap between the legs, but as you say once the legs are brought together a bit more then you can sort it at the same time

it's certainly coming along, I'm not sure what you're going to focus on next but the things that most stand out at me currently are the forearms, the hip bone (being a little too high), the 'V-ing' into the top of the buttocks and the disproportion of the upper & lower body musculature, that is, the arms&torso seems way more 'beefy' than the legs

btw, you got any plans for him or is purely an anatomy study? oh and I reckon the skin shader worked pretty well, certainly good for when modelling, I find I don't want hyper-realism in a shader when modelling 'coz it can cover over areas that still need attention (hehe which is usually most of my model! :D )

keep up the great work, and I look forward to seeing this one develop.

andrewley
08-21-2004, 06:26 PM
Cheers bud - it was just going to be an anatomy study but i'd like to develop him into a character. Something similar to the works of Stuzzi and Pixopath. Though they are in a different league to me :) I'd like do make some kind of armour but I'm reluctant to cover all the work I've put into the muscles :)

Think I need to tone down the arms a bit.

yeah I noticed that v thing at the tp of the buttocks aswell. Will have to fix that.

Thanks for the support

Clondike7
08-21-2004, 06:50 PM
Its looking great so far. Heres my 2cents:

1. I think the biggest problem you have is that there are some parts of the body that have the muscles so detailed it doesn't look like there is skin over it (like the arms, and then there are other parts which pale in comparison to the others (the abs).

2. the "Six pack abs" isn't really 6, its actually 8, I think its 2 above the navel and 2 below but the last one isnt as noticable.

3. the patella (knee bone) you have there is too thin, if you strech out ur leg (assuming ur leg is about the same size as this guy's) it sticks out and is about 1/3rd the width of the "knee area".

4. on the back view of the legs, i get the feeling that "dip" in musculature near the back of the knee is a bit too high and too pronounced too.

5. like elqui said, the splenius (joining the neck and shoulder) is a bit too straight, give it more of an "S" shape.

Hope this helps you out man. Keep up the good work!

P.S. good reference site: www.fineart.sk

Edit: awesome avatar!

elqui
08-21-2004, 07:19 PM
just read a bit of your other thread and understand what you're doing with the arm, ie showing some of the muscles that compose the arm but that we don't usually see, very cool, so stratch what I said about the forearm muscles

The 'v-ing' on the back got me thinking and went and read something about backs (since I was battling with them myself the other day) and I reckon yours actually only needs a tiny bit of change to get it looking right. unfortunately I can't figure out the name of the muscle (there's a whole bunch there!) but it's letter 'L' on the diagram below. Anyway I think you need more of a right-angle on yours and then to be raised up a bit, with that I think it will slot right into place - but I did an uber quick photoshop job to show what I mean

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/elqui/ARM18.jpg

hope it helps, it just struck me that it shouldn't take too much poly-pushing to get it lookin' right, just move a few polys to change the percieved shape and it should 'pop' perfectly into place

andrewley
08-21-2004, 07:33 PM
Clondike7 - cheers bud I'll look into the points you made. They seem to make sense. The first point is spot on.

Once again elqui great crits. Its hard to determine if my muscles are correct because they are capable of forming so many different shapes depending on the pose - let alone the sublte differences in every human. You could spend a life time tweaking a model like this. Plus my reference material of the back seems different to yours. *sigh*

I think I need to focus on making the model believable rather than a medical reference :)

About the forearm muscle. Like you said it was my initial idea to show the underlying muscle structure. However now I would like to work on getting the surface details right.

So your crits were right.

Burlap_Sack
08-21-2004, 09:18 PM
I started my reply from page 1(OOPS), So you,ve already cleared up a number of issues I've mentioned bellow, but they realate to other critisisms, so I'm leaving them:

there are a few anitomical weirdnesses here i find very off putting...

look at his profile:

•his back is to long for his front
-his shoulder starts above his collar bone
-his head is too far forward in relation to his collar bone & spine
-the back of his rib cage does not agree with the front of his rib cage
-and his bottom is too low in realation too the front

•the profile of his legs & bottom are to skinny especially the ankle
•the legs are too short for the torso in genral; from the side they look especially goofy

Look at his back:

• his buttocks are too far bellow the groin
-making his leg look shorter & the gap b/w the inner thighs appear to large
-note the length off his leg here compared to length of his back

Look at his front:

•it appears as though his groin starts too high; perhaps this is b/c the abdominal muscles could be too long, wide and low in relation to the chest
•uhoh.... his arms appear to high for the chest( his deltoid start above the collar) and his pecs don't even flow into his deltoids; but under his coracobrachialis?! i guess it could be his pec? but it looks... No, I'm definite seeing coracobrachialis...
•AH, look at his side not only are the arms high but i think th chest may be a little shalow making them appear to forward... so i think
•The pectoral muscle flow with the deltoids there may be a small cleavage, his pecs just disappearunder them or go some where else....
•and that collar bone lacks form... it really pronouce but thin... it just looks like its stuck on the pecs and delts w/out any for of its own

His arms & back are very shapely... But i think the front and sides of his legs could be filled out. the stringy way the rectus femorus flows into the knee, the bodies of that group of muscles abruptly become tendons, there is a clear cleft that is more apperant than the tendons them selves. Ok it time to shut up...

Dispite all my blah blah I'm impressed. there is alot of nice modeling here... the back and arms are really awesome....

All and all its awesome...

andrewley
08-21-2004, 09:54 PM
Thanks for your crits Burlap_Sack

I've made some changes.

jjcoolio
08-23-2004, 04:42 AM
Thanks for the comments of my site. I really appriciate that.
I see your really into dat modeling. The only thing I could say is that If it's a muscle study then just make it really define (even the face and also every parts)
because from this point the face,legs and the 6packs are like a character mesh, the arms and the back are like a muscle study.
If you decided to make it a character then smooth out the muscles that looks like a anatomy muscle study. (the the arms ,shoulders and the back, the point where the legs start could be more smoothed out.)
and if your using maya when u mesh smooth turn off the (relax uvs option if its on) this will help.
you have studied a lot of muscles, u just have to decide which muscle u are going to emphasize and which to just smooth out.
but I think you've got the tallent, and I bet you'll get better every day.
jjcoolio-

andrewley
08-23-2004, 08:56 PM
Cheers jjcoolio those were good crits. I am indeed moving away from the muscle subject into more of a character mesh. Here's an update:

elqui
08-24-2004, 01:19 AM
hey andrew, really coming along nicely now, glad to see you went one way with the mesh, and the loin cloth works a treat - the two main things (IMHO) that require attention now are the collar bone (too much of a hard division between head and body) and the forearms (as previously discussed).
Look forward to the next update, great modelling dude!

the_zed_axis
08-24-2004, 02:45 AM
so errrrr what about the deformations? are you planning on rigging this model?

impressive work so far.
I am not much in terms of anatomy but some of the muscles do look somehwat overly exxagerated or maybe he's been working out on them more lol

nice work dude:)

ka0tic
08-24-2004, 09:59 AM
It looks really good. A couple things though, which i think were stated earlier on: Make the thighs bigger, they look a little off, also make the biceps abit bigger two. Raise the colar bone up, atleast to the top of the shoulders, its abit to low, and straighten it abit.
Apart from that, i think its lookng great, keep up the good work.

andrewley
08-27-2004, 07:45 PM
Thanks for the excellent crits guys. I've been busy making the uv map for this guy (not much fun) but I've made the changes you suggested. I've adjusted the following areas:

Collar bone raised and straightened
Pecks reshaped
Neck reshaped
Forearm muscles reduced
Biceps made bigger

flingster
08-30-2004, 08:38 PM
andrew theres a body topology thread on the maya forum which might be worth posting in to get some focussed crit...i know maybe its not what you want necessarily...but there are some talented people attached to that thread..so might be worth just posting and see if you can get any constructive crits which might help you.
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=108412

sorry not knowledgable enough in this area to help..but will look with interest on your progress.

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