fat guy head /normal map test

[samgrice]

i dont really know that much about normal mapping, but if you want to make the normal map work better then i would add some details that are not in the low poly version. you could add wrinkles in the forehead ora dimple in the chin for example.

[6gZ]

Hi,
Check both models for duplicated verts.. Actually u can see that seam in the hipoly head, u should correct that. If your geometry is right, u should have seamless normal map. Now theres some kind of problem.. (If you were going for mirrored map, u could paint the seams manually flat.) Then check your uvs to have no overlapping or stretching. Make sure you have the models exactly in same place.. Use that type-in tool to be sure. Then try out the different options in the ati normal mapper. I havent used that myself, but if there something like projection distance, try to experience with different values. Hope theres some help, good luck!

[frameless]

Actually u can see that seam in the hipoly head, u should correct that. The vertices in the middle were all not welded. I just dublicated one half of the head and attached them to each other but i did not weld the vertices ^^. my mistake.

k, i painted a quick diffuse map and made a comparison between the metal shader in max and the ATI NMFView:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/gwemmer/cgtalk_normal2.jpg


Do not know which to trust more. But i think the metal shader is, like the name says, for metal and not for organics. I guess thats why the head looks so ugly shaded.
I also took a screenshot of the ATI NormalMapper tool so that you could be able to give me some tips on improving the normal map quality. I did a few touch ups in PS to optimize the map. k, heres the sreenie:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/gwemmer/normalmapperui.jpg

[J.K.Makowka]

ORB (http://www.soclab.bth.se/practices/orb.html)

try this ;)

[Littleberu]

(Sorry, wrong button...)

[mindrot]

Looks decent enough. But add lots more finer detail, like mentioned already. Some heavy as well as smoe more refined wrinkles and creases. Some heavy veins on the side of the head and possibl a few moles. This might make him look a bit old though, but could be good :thumbsup:

[6gZ]

I suggest you to not add any more details before u get this working. This doesnt look good at all. You should get it looking like that hipoly one. Mostly problems are on that nose area. Try that orb, ive used it and it works very well for me without all of those options. Nothing better solution comes in my mind right now.

[frameless]

k, i did a render in 3ds max with that plugin called gnormal...have a look:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/gwemmer/g_normal_render.jpg

[Neil]

Definitely looks a lot better, but could probably still be improved some more.

I dunno what it is, I'm just really not a big fan of Normalmapping. The models end up with the same 'ice sculpture' look it seems. I think the process is powerful, but needs more tweaking and improvements.

[ThreedyModeler]

I haven't done anything with normal mapping yet, so these suggestions might just be shots in the dark.

Could the polygon smoothing groups (and their subsequent smoothing "errors") be causing the nasty shadows which is messing up the normal map? Can you set up the smoothing groups to resolve some of the shading errors and then see what it looks like with the normal map?

Also, how did you create the lowpoly model? Did you do a poly reduction tool/plugin on the high-res model or did you model a new, clean mesh from scratch with the high-res as a reference? Can you post a wireframe of the low poly mesh? Could the topology of a mesh screw up a normal map?

[frameless]

thx neil :) , i know he's far from being perfect.
I have got a question though. I know that gnormal plugin converts the normal map into a bump map so that max' scanline is able to render it. So that would not be an ingame shot, would it?

[EricChadwick]

No a scanline render is not strictly an in-game screenshot. Although it can be made to look like one.

Max converts all bump maps, grayscale and normal maps, into vector-based normals at render time. Here's an old message from the Discreet forum that I saved on my HD. You might recognize the author, Ben wrote the gNormal map plugin...
Topic: How do bump maps work? (no, really) (5 of 8), Read 123 times Conf: Rendering Materials & Lighting (file://Portal/Content/Apps/Art_Tutorials/texturing/confintro?20)From: Ben Lipman (file://Portal/Content/Apps/Art_Tutorials/texturing/userpeek?217) Date: Monday, August 25, 2003 07:06 AM

Maybe my resent experiences in codeland can offer some insight. A bump map is a method for perturbing a surfacenormal based on some texture. Usually this texture is the intensity of the map(mono channel, greyscale). The derivative (rate of change) of the U and V becomes normalperturb, usually. BUT. This only thing guaranteed about a bump map is that the normalperturb function of that map is called. That code can be anything. For instance, my gammamap plugin doesn't have any bump map code. It just calls for the normal perturb code of the submap. (It's a pass through.) My gNormal map plugin uses submap color information to perturb normals.

So what have we learned.
1. The normal perturbing code is within each texture, not the shader.
2. The texture directly sitting in the bumpmap slot gets called for the bump code.
3. This texture might not have any bumpping code. {return point3(0,0,0);}

hope this helps.

Ben.

[frameless]

thx for your replies digital and Eric ;)
For the process of creation i first modeld the high poly version. The polygoncount was cut down (without any plugins, just deleting polygons) to get a low poly version. So i created the low poly version out of the high poly. Heres a wire:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/gwemmer/wire_normal.jpg

As for the smoothing groups. I am not very familiar with them. One question is: Should i have already assigned the groups berfore i create the normal map? Or can i change them at any time? This may sound very noobish now...but i just selected all the polygons and gave them the smoothing group 1. After your reply i played around a bit with them and did not really get good results :/

[EricChadwick]

You did the right thing. Use one smoothing group. Normal map should handle all creasing. Just be sure to calculate normals using 1 group, otherwise you may get weird overlaps in your normal map, because normal mapping tools usually use the lowpoly normals to determine the direction they fire their rays. If a smoothing seam exists, it may cause two different rays to be fired, in different directions, for the same pixels, which may cause overlaps...

[sumpm1]

sthere is a problem with your low poy model. You can still see the low poly wire frame in some parts of the normal mapped mesh. The solution is to make sure that the low poly mesh does not have severe angles in it. also, wherever there is a sharp edge or crease in the high poly model, make sure that the low poly also follows the flow of those details.

[random.hero]

it would really help to add some more illumination (lights) in your render. that would get rid of most of the black areas around his nostrils, as well as bringing more detail out of the normal map.

as for the ATI normal mapper, ive never been able to get either the stand alone or scripted version to work. ill have another go, but could you tell me which you use ?

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