View Full Version : WIP: Sir Nigel
08-13-2004, 07:21 PM
Here's a newer render and pose of Sir Nigel. I thought he looked more like a pipe man than a cigarette smoker. Anyway, I haven't done anything new with A:M for the past 6 months or more, mainly because I have been bug testing the OSX version when I have the time and also because I am doing some freelance 3D work with A:M. It seems that once your hobby becomes your job, the desire to do it lessens.
I applaud the effort you're making here, Wegg! I'll try to do my part to keep this forum healthy.
08-13-2004, 07:45 PM
Model and materials aside... here's what strikes me about your image.
Impeccable rendering settings and lighting. Please describe what AM v. you got, your settings, and lighting solutions.
The shadows (as a result of the lighting) are little raytracy near his hands, but some softshadowing would put this over the top for me.
Anyway, details on lights and rendering settings, original size, etc...
08-13-2004, 07:53 PM
Jim, I came across Wonder Woman images I saved way back when last night, as I was sorting through inspiring images and reference images for a character I'm working on, and I must say you were good then...you are great now. Such personality in that image! He makes me think of old movie actors. Maybe you could do a spec for AMC...might be something they could use and make you some bucks if the right concept was put into place.
08-13-2004, 07:54 PM
Minor quibble, I don't think his thumb should be sticking into the table like that if he's resting his hand lightly on it, it seems to indicate he's using it for support, rather than striking an elegan pose...
08-13-2004, 07:56 PM
Bugle, He's old. We sometimes need all the support we can get. ;)
Texture on the pipe is a little bland.
Could do with some warmth/glow to the skin.
Bloody brilliant though. Good work.
08-13-2004, 08:17 PM
Here are some details about the render:
3 Bulbs lights
Main light 100% intensity- rgb=254,233,204; Diffuse, spec and shadows (1 ray cast) ON
Back light 65% intensity- rgb=100,143,198; diffuse, shadows(1 ray cast) ON
Fill light (from below) 35% intensity-rgb=179,104,91; diffuse ON
Normal AA (no multipass)
I rendered to 1800X2400 pixels, so I kept it simple to keep the render time down.
You're right, soft shadows would help a lot.
08-13-2004, 08:29 PM
Thanks! That's a good idea about pitching to AMC. I wish I had the animation talent and time to put it all together.
Oh, and I rendered it in the OSX version of 10.5, after they fixed the hair/raytrace bug. :applause:
The hand placement bothers me, too. I was thinking of covering it with a potted plant, but that's no fun to model.
Yup. The pipe is just bland old colored groups at the moment. Another detail I never finished, darn. Any suggestions about how to add glow to the skin? Were you thinking in the color map or with lighting? He IS a bit dull color-wise, but he smokes too much.
08-13-2004, 09:05 PM
Fantastic work as usual Jim, I was wondering what ever happened to this old guy. The only thing about this image that bothers me (other than what's already been said) is his jacket, it looks too stiff and a bit too "plasticy". There's also some aliasing artifacts on the hair on top of his, could probably fix with some multipassing (to get those nice soft shadows too). Love the lighting and the modeling.
08-13-2004, 09:19 PM
Yeah, the jacket is lacking in texture and interest. I had been playting with adding folds and such, but life interupted. I'll have to see what I can do.
About the hair, I've got 2 different hair groups up there. The main hair area has short hair applied to a group and controlled by a decal for thickness. The longer "bangs" hair group uses the hair guides (the v10 kind with the control wheel around each cp). This hair guide hair is the one that has bad AA. I don't know why it would render differently than the other hair material. I'll try to render out a new version based on the feedback you guys have given.
08-13-2004, 10:29 PM
Skin: Have you tried a gradient with position set to zero? You play with the edge threshold to get varios effects on the model's edge. The soulcage guys used it to achieve SSS effects on the last image they posted, although I think they had to composite layers...
(I barely know what I'm talking about here, so I'll let the big boys take over if I've said anytihing coherent ;) )
08-13-2004, 11:43 PM
My only crits have already been mentioned, and they're so minor anyway. Just the cloth texture and the pipe. Its a beautiful piece to look at.
08-14-2004, 05:17 AM
I added a texture to the pipe bowl area (although it's hard to see it) and reworked the lighting a bit. I gave the image softer shadows which help a lot and I tweaked the hand on the table a bit, too. I tried to add some more warmth to the face by giving his skin area a dark red for a diffuse and specular color and a very little bit of ambience, too.
It's interesting how the new lighting really gives him a different look.
I still have to add texture to the jacket, though.
Oh, and I used multipass with 25 passes this time.
08-14-2004, 06:13 AM
Lost your highlights and shadow values. I was impressed you went for them in the first image... Now it's flat.
It lacks a that certain imposing patriarchal power it had before. In fact did you add another fill light on him?
Hey, that smoke is awesome!! How did I miss that the first time!? Tell me some details on it, or is it jsut a quick Paint Shop post render touch up? Some highlight to it might be dramatic.
Anyway, incredible image no matter.
08-14-2004, 08:21 AM
Lost your highlights and shadow values.
I'd like to chime in agreement with Peter, here. A shiny nose is a real badge of old geezerhood, and Sir Nigel should wear it proudly.
The hand on the table looks fine, IMHO.
This is one of the most awesome models ever built in AM. It's like a Mort Drucker illustration come to life!
08-14-2004, 01:43 PM
Yes, I realize I lost the spec highlights in an attempt to add a warm glow to the skin, which I failed to get. Looks like I'll have to change back the spec color and try adding an extra soft reddish light near the main light to help add some warmth.
Actually, most older folks that I know are pretty dried out skin-wise. They don't have the moisture in the skin that they had when they were younger.
08-14-2004, 03:33 PM
Jim excellent work!!!! I think the first image is waaaaaay more dramatic and finished than the second image. Sometimes you have to remember that crits are just opinions.... and you know what opions are like!!!
Anyhows, the only thin I felt the first image needed was a texture map on the pipe. Sir Nigel is far too distinguished to have a smoke from a plastic pipe.
08-15-2004, 08:37 PM
Hey Jim! Killer pic you've got there. I remember seeing this guy a while back, and it's good to see he's still progressing.
As sweet as it is, though, what strikes me as lacking just a touch in this is a clearer sense of his personality. The eye direction and lowered lids help a bit. Admittedly I'd like to see a hair more asymmetry in the facial expression, but what's jumping out at me the most is the nearly-perfect vertical orientation of his head and the way his nose is aiming straight at the camera. For me, at least, it makes the full emotional impact of his half-lidded side gaze a little hazy. A slight shift in the rotation of the head would do wonders for this, methinks. While it does appear that the head is tilted ever so slightly to the left, it's so uber-subtle that it's hard to get a clear read on its emotional implications.
I've got my own hunch on where you're trying to go with this guy, and how I'd tweak the head rotation based on that hunch, but I'll refrain. Because you're the one that knows this guy best from an emotional standpoint, that should naturally be your call. You've got three axes to work with, and when combined with the facial expression and his eye direction, each one will affect the emotional result in a different way. And in the end, it's the emotion that counts.
08-15-2004, 09:16 PM
Thanks. I appreciate any crits (opinions) about my work, and even if I don't agree with them, I don't mind trying them out, just so I can learn from them. I tend to feel that the first image may be more impactful, but the lighting on the face isn't as pleasing as I'd like. Especially the shadow under the nose.
Thanks for the feedback. I agree about the turning of his head to relieve some of the straight on look to the pose, but I'm reluctant to angle the head much, as I was trying to do more of a formal portrait of an ex-military bloke, who tends to keep a stiff upper lip (and back, as well). Possibly tilting the head up some would still fit with my idea of his character.
But I should try to do some more informal poses that show some more personality. I tend to tweak things to death. Time to move on.
But before I do, here's one last render of this pose with some changes to the jacket. There is a texture on the jacket. I hope someone can see it! And I made the lapels of his tux shiny for some interest, too.
08-15-2004, 09:39 PM
Looks great Jim! Just fYI, the feel I got from this character was, Sir Nigel was gliding around the room(keeping his positioning by just feeling the table as he walked around it), carefully explaining the events of his evil/sinister plot that has unfolded up to the point at which he is now explaining it to the soon to be doomed meddeling kids that have unwittingly gotten in the way!NIce work!
08-15-2004, 10:23 PM
The jacket texture is fantastic. I like that it isn't so gosh durn overstated (shucks) as so much CG stuff tends to be.
I like the stronger shading on his face in this one- brings out his features more.
The shiny lapels are less successful IMO- they flip him out of the image and into the world of "be conscious of my lighting solution." Some shine would be fine, but the harsh line created on his left lapel (HIS left) destroys the solidity of that part of the model, for me. This almost occurs on his right too, but there the shading is stronger and "grasps" the shape better.
Lovely, lovely highlight along the center edge seem of his jacket... that just rocks- did you turn it out some and light it or cheat? That's such a strong subtle detail that WORKS!
I'd drop his left cuff some, but man, are we nitpicking now or what?
I kind of like the lighting in the first image better. It let you see more of the character's face and made the image feel more like a portrate. All the texture and posing improvements are nice but it seems as though something has been lost with the new angles on the lights.
08-16-2004, 11:04 PM
I tend to tweak things to death. Time to move on.
Indeed Jim, move on. There's nothing more you can do here, it's pretty damn perfect. :applause:
08-17-2004, 01:10 AM
Indeed Jim, move on. There's nothing more you can do here, it's pretty damn perfect. :applause:
Stephen, didn't we banish your nose to the Briar grindstone? What are you doing commenting in here?
08-19-2004, 04:56 PM
modelling work looks fab, I agree there's always something needs doing in any image and my plea would be that the face is lit more like the first image. The jacket and body are more visible in the second.
I am pleased that Sir Nigels chin has lost its sheen (though I completely accept the comment about a shiny nose)
Great work and nice to see you back Jim.
01-19-2006, 12:00 AM
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