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NNois
08-31-2004, 03:37 PM
Hello !
I've found a screenshot from Applexpo at Paris... interesting...

http://www.macgeneration.com/mgnews/categories/actualite/upload/ae2004keynote/image018.jpg

mbaldwin
08-31-2004, 03:47 PM
spill the beans--please!

more demo vids--?!--?

Nemoid
08-31-2004, 05:06 PM
No history? i was pretty sure that i read Modo had some sort of a construction history. maybe i'm wrong though. i have to do a research on this!! however if there's currently no history it is needed for a future release.


Hey Lux guys if you're reading this please, put in modo the universal manipulator ASAP
(first user feature request? we will see..) i am used to Lw when modelling and i haven't in it, but Maya and other apps guys will feel the need of it for sure. :)

My idea would be do it like Maya, with some settings to have the possibility that when i work in perspective view, and move or rotate some items on one axis , hitting for example ctrl like in lw and moving , that same axis indicator is highlited on the manipulator this way an user could work like in Lw, but will have the manipulator at his disposal as well and a clear indication of wich axis is he using.

hope i explained well.
my english is not the best in the world indeed.

keep up with the good work!! :thumbsup:

Goon
08-31-2004, 05:14 PM
Hey Lux guys if you're reading this please, put in modo the universal manipulator ASAP
Manipulators would be nice, but the universal manipulator is a cluttered pain in the ass.

jlinhart
08-31-2004, 05:58 PM
jlinhart, can you confirm that there will be a demo available?
I don't have information on a demo release yet. When I find something out I'll post it here.

.jason
www.luxology.com

jlinhart
08-31-2004, 06:02 PM
how many days are "a few"?

i have to register my lightwave licence to another person but i want of course make use of the lightwave special price ... :twisted:

regards chris
A few meaning by the end of the week. Unless a major catastrophe happens, then all bets are off. :)

.jason
www.luxology.com

jedi71
08-31-2004, 06:24 PM
Hi Jason, :)

Me being a LW8 user, among many others, can you comment on whether there Will be a special price for LW users, as promised by Brad Peebler in his Q&A in this forum. I do realize the Q&A was many months ago so this might have changed.

Also, will Luxology be able to ship directly to overseas non-US customers or will we have to purhcase modo through a distributor? My guess and hope is yes but I'm just asking.

Thanks so much for participating in this thread and forum, it's real nice to have someone actually from Luxology itself around!! :thumbsup:

jlinhart
08-31-2004, 06:55 PM
Hi Jason, :)

Me being a LW8 user, among many others, can you comment on whether there Will be a special price for LW users, as promised by Brad Peebler in his Q&A in this forum. I do realize the Q&A was many months ago so this might have changed.
I don't have official word on this. When Brad gets back from speaking at the keynote at Apple Expo Paris I'll ask.



Also, will Luxology be able to ship directly to overseas non-US customers or will we have to purhcase modo through a distributor? My guess and hope is yes but I'm just asking.
I depends on your location. Our site will accept international orders when it is live.


Thanks so much for participating in this thread and forum, it's real nice to have someone actually from Luxology itself around!! :thumbsup: Sorry I can't monitor it more often or have exact answers to some of the questions.

Thanks for your interest,

.jason
www.luxology.com (http://www.luxology.com)

ChristianFischer
08-31-2004, 07:00 PM
A few meaning by the end of the week. Unless a major catastrophe happens, then all bets are off. :)
by the end of the week is acceptable ;)

chris

ps: please check your PM-box jason ...

neods
08-31-2004, 07:24 PM
Is there any more info on this "nexus" renderer. Would like to know more about it. So its in the same family as Modo, and It will probaply work seamesly with Modo. So these 2 compined it will be the next generation lightwave =)

If anyone has any pictures or info of nexus, Would love to hear

retinajoy
08-31-2004, 07:47 PM
Yep. This does look very interesting. :)

http://www.macgeneration.com/mgnews/categories/actualite/upload/ae2004keynote/image018.jpg

FunBucket
08-31-2004, 07:56 PM
Hippo in a dress... how lovely!

No one seems to be mentioning dynamics of any kind... can't imagine nexus and modo being a complete 3d solution without it. :shrug:

*BTW, what exactly is a universal manipulator? I've been playing around with all the apps, so I'm sure I KNOW what it is... just not sure what I'd be missing without it.*

retinajoy
08-31-2004, 08:16 PM
Another tidbit:

"Referred to as a '3D Operating System', nexus includes animation and rendering capabilities, which are in themselves very impressive. The rendering speeds were blisteringly fast. The renderer uses 'buckets' to break up a still image, these buckets can also be distributed over a network, each CPU rendering one 'bucket'. The other interesting feature, was a real-time renderer, which looked and behaved almost identically the real time rendering feature in Worely Lab's FPrime. "

http://66.102.11.104/search?q=cache:-BdIrOyeFWIJ:www.themacmind.com/modules.php%3Fop%3Dmodload%26name%3DNews%26file%3Darticle%26sid%3D580+luxology+nexus+&hl=en

neods
08-31-2004, 08:17 PM
That certainly looks intresting. 6,9s for that global illumination rendering, no shadows tho. Quite fast, but I bet vray could do that. The node based approach on the right looks intresting, would love to see a video of the keynote event.. damn =)

policarpo
08-31-2004, 08:22 PM
Holy crap!

Talk about hungry hungry hippo.

If you look under the skirt you see shadows mate. :deal:

lwbob
08-31-2004, 08:25 PM
That certainly looks intresting. 6,9s for that global illumination rendering, no shadows tho. Quite fast, but I bet vray could do that. The node based approach on the right looks intresting, would love to see a video of the keynote event.. damn =)
Looks like it had shadows to me.

Zithen
08-31-2004, 08:37 PM
Hippo in a dress... how lovely!

No one seems to be mentioning dynamics of any kind... can't imagine nexus and modo being a complete 3d solution without it. :shrug:

*BTW, what exactly is a universal manipulator? I've been playing around with all the apps, so I'm sure I KNOW what it is... just not sure what I'd be missing without it.*Nexus will have dynamics as far as I have heard. One of the programmers has a degree in physics...so that will be addressed, I'm sure.

nuclearfessel
08-31-2004, 08:41 PM
That certainly looks intresting. 6,9s for that global illumination rendering, no shadows tho. Quite fast, but I bet vray could do that. The node based approach on the right looks intresting, would love to see a video of the keynote event.. damn =)
look again, there's shadows on the object itself.

there's no ground shadow as there is no ground plane

yog
08-31-2004, 08:59 PM
[QUOTE=nuclearfessel]look again, there's shadows on the object itself.

Edit :
Douh !! I just realised I was agreeing with you :thumbsup:

Goon
08-31-2004, 09:03 PM
build 9303, as in .9303? If so, seems that they are nearing completion of nexus. But will they release it w/o the animation module?

retinajoy
08-31-2004, 09:04 PM
It's just the backdrop background gradient like you get in LW. Maybe?

nuclearfessel
08-31-2004, 09:10 PM
[QUOTE=nuclearfessel]look again, there's shadows on the object itself.

Edit :
Douh !! I just realised I was agreeing with you :thumbsup:
hehehe

what you'll also see happening is the same thing that happens using the background setting in LW :)

it looks like a ground plane but its not :P

leuey
08-31-2004, 09:30 PM
check out all the stats along the top of the render window. nice... (not that I can read them, but that they're there for diagnostics is what I'm liking..)

-Greg

neods
08-31-2004, 09:40 PM
I thought that is was a ground plane where the hippo was standing. So thought there was no shadows casted by the hippo, sorry my bad.

Is there any speculation when will there be a public announcement on this? possibly some real/officail information?

Beamtracer
08-31-2004, 10:45 PM
Our site will accept international orders when it is live.
.jason
www.luxology.com (http://www.luxology.com)
Luxology: Please offer 2 modes of delivery for the boxed edition of Modo... fast courier and slow post. Providing a slower delivery option will help reduce the price for many people.

Download would be the best way. I've got a 1.5Mb/sec link, so I can easily handle a 1GB file. Download would be more feasible if program and content were separated into 2 separate components for downloading. However much I would love Modo to be available for download, I doubt if Lux will do it. 3D apps tend not to be available for purchase via download.

js33
08-31-2004, 11:05 PM
Hi Beam,

Found something (Lux and Modo/Nexus) we both are in agreement on. Hehehehe.
XSI Foundation is available via download. Anyway the more I see of Modo and Lux the more I want to see. It's starting to feel like the excitement Newtek and Lightwave once had. Sorry Newtek. Anyway the Apple Paris show is online and can be viewed here (http://stream.apple.akadns.net/). One Billion + polys rendered with radiosity in 30 some seconds. I like the bucket rendering better than LWs anti-alias passes. Now if Lux can add some kickass hard, soft and fluid dynamics and something along the lines of Maya PaintFX they will be kicking some major ass. You go boys....

Cheers,
JS

Griffon
08-31-2004, 11:14 PM
However much I would love Modo to be available for download, I doubt if Lux will do it. 3D apps tend not to be available for purchase via download.
I wouldn't take that bet....

nuclearfessel
08-31-2004, 11:18 PM
I wouldn't take that bet.... __________________
-Eric
Luxology LLC

personally, i would listen to the man, beam :)

ghopper
09-01-2004, 12:41 AM
...
3D apps tend not to be available for purchase via download.

Softimage XSI Foundation is available as a download and so is Zbrush. Maybe SILO too ?

Personally, I don't need a box or hardcopy manual. PDF or CHM / HTML manual and downloable software should be fine.

So it would be great if we would have that option, boxed or ESD, like Macromedia do.

mbaldwin
09-01-2004, 12:59 AM
Hi Beam,

Anyway the more I see of Modo and Lux the more I want to see...Anyway the Apple Paris show is online and can be viewed here (http://stream.apple.akadns.net/). One Billion + polys rendered with radiosity in 30 some seconds. I like the bucket rendering better than LWs anti-alias passes.
Cheers,
JS

hey JS,

thanks for the link. the early look at the renderer looks great. What's a render without full texturing of the objects you're rendering? I think it's probably safe to assume that texturing/camera effects/filters will be a part of the next lux software release--or shmaybe not--? We'll see.

onlooker
09-01-2004, 01:01 AM
Did they mention when it will be released? I'm about to ask Pixologic for a refund so I can buy it. As I have no Z2 after 5 1/2 months or more of waiting patiently for the Mac version.

ghopper
09-01-2004, 01:12 AM
Did they mention when it will be released? I'm about to ask Pixologic for a refund so I can buy it. As I have no Z2 after 5 1/2 months or more of waiting patiently for the Mac version.

It was mentioned somewhere that NEXUS will be released 1st quarter next year. Please correct if it's wrong.

Levitateme
09-01-2004, 01:17 AM
why are people asking for ALL these new features? dynamics, animation, dynamics? i thought it was just suppose to be an amazing modeler. please dont give the developers ideas, let it stay as a modeler.

js33
09-01-2004, 01:27 AM
hey JS,

thanks for the link. the early look at the renderer looks great. What's a render without full texturing of the objects you're rendering? I think it's probably safe to assume that texturing/camera effects/filters will be a part of the next lux software release--or shmaybe not--? We'll see.
Your welcome. I'm about to watch again as I was busy earlier when I had it playing. I saw Brad but missed most of the rest of the show. Didn't Lux say they were working on an animation module also? After all what good is a renderer and a modeler without animation and dynamics?
Also seeing a lot of Lightwave people in here. I hope we haven't hurt Newtek's feelings. They have been good to us over the years.

Cheers,
JS

js33
09-01-2004, 01:29 AM
why are people asking for ALL these new features? dynamics, animation, dynamics? i thought it was just suppose to be an amazing modeler. please dont give the developers ideas, let it stay as a modeler.Why not? It's already more than just a modeler. It's a renderer and a 3D operating system so why not put the rest of the pieces in there? It sounds like they are working on a Maya killer. I just hope they can put in something like PaintFX as well as hard, soft, and fluid dynamics. Oh why stop there? Put in a compositor, non linear animation, Full IK/FK, full scripting, deep and full sdk and basically all the things other apps might have but are clumbsy or hard to use and make them clear, consise, powerful and easy to use.

Cheers,
JS

leuey
09-01-2004, 01:36 AM
Errr, well I don't think you've been paying attention - no offense. Luxology's products seem to be modular, so if all you want is modeling then just buy Modo. Of course there's going to be rendering, animation and so forth. It's going to be a complete suite - most of their programmers aren't 'modelling' guys, Alan Hastings' forte is rendering technology. Anyway, if all you want to do is model - then you should be just fine. I think most people are interested in the whole enchilada...

-Greg





why are people asking for ALL these new features? dynamics, animation, dynamics? i thought it was just suppose to be an amazing modeler. please dont give the developers ideas, let it stay as a modeler.

FunBucket
09-01-2004, 01:38 AM
why are people asking for ALL these new features? dynamics, animation, dynamics? i thought it was just suppose to be an amazing modeler. please dont give the developers ideas, let it stay as a modeler.

Modo's not even what I'm excited about (well, I am but...) Nexus is what I'm interested in! The rendering speed sounds extremely impressive. And I'm still hoping to get a quick peak at the animation part somehow... is the animation part not as far along in development as the renderer is?

I'm still a little unsure of how this is all put together... one article said Nexus is the whole package. Modo included. But the way some people talk... Nexus is the rendering module/plugin, and then there's ALSO going to be a seperate animation module... which is it? All together? Or all modules? Like C4D?

CB_3D
09-01-2004, 03:37 AM
(SNIP) people are interested in the whole enchilada...

-GregThere ya go! If this will have full animation, LW comparable texturing and better (easier) dynamics iīm in.:thumbsup:

If not, Modo only + LW + FP still is sweet enough.

Waiting....curious....impatient.
Hey, the hype works on me,LOL :scream:

So, has a modo demo been mentioned or not? That would be the first step to lure me in.

Renderman_XSI
09-01-2004, 05:08 AM
Hey Lux guys if you're reading this please, put in modo the universal manipulator ASAP
(first user feature request? we will see..) i am used to Lw when modelling and i haven't in it, but Maya and other apps guys will feel the need of it for sure. :)


:thumbsup: Maya, 3DSMAX, and even XSI has manipulator, so what? Im not missing anything when im modeling in Mirai, which has no traditional manipulator. IMO, manipulators just slow your modeling task down. I think they should spend there time on more important things that speed up workflow, instead of things that hinder workflow speed. Things like setting orthographic mode on when you switch to any X(-X),Y(-Y),Z(-Z) view. Once you rotate in those views, it should jump back into perspective view. This is much need in order to work effectively in a single viewport. Viewport navigation that require you to use a combination of keyboard plus mouse to zoom,pan and dolly just slows you down also. It doesnt seem like a important issue, but it is, since most of the time you'll moving around your model, so it should be effortless. The ability to scale a object in both X and Y direction independently at the same time with one mouse click would be nice(something Mirai does) without manipulators. Manipulators would be good for a Maya artist who needs to feel right at home in Modo, but please dont center Modo workflow on traditional manipulators.

Modo seems to be intuitive enough, i just hope they dont go the traditional way of doing things ala, 3DSMAX,Maya,XSI(not the base softwares to draw inspiration from). I seen more innovation from smaller companies; PMG, Pixologic, izware than from bigger companies.

onlooker
09-01-2004, 05:24 AM
Renderman_XSI, not that I disagree, or agree, but manipulators can be turned on, and off. Like cameras. They can be either visible, or not. Having a non default manipulator in there as a crutch for those who cant give them up right away does not seem like a lot to ask from a developer. Maybe it is, but is it really that big of a deal for some one that is used to Maya, 3DSMAX, or XSI to request it? I think a few of us still use them. I know we all aren't using Mirai.

Renderman_XSI
09-01-2004, 05:35 AM
Renderman_XSI, not that I disagree, or agree, but manipulators can be turned on, and off. Like cameras. They can be either visible, or not. Having a non default manipulator in there as a crutch for those who cant give them up right away does not seem like a lot to ask from a developer. Maybe it is, but is it really that big of a deal for some one that is used to Maya, 3DSMAX, or XSI to request it? I think a few of us still use them. I know we all aren't using Mirai. I know where your coming from, what im requesting is to avoid the manipulator "dependent" workflow that most traditional 3DCG apps built their workflow around. Tweaking your mesh with basic tool like (rotate,scale,move) traditional required the involvement of a manipulator, but there are better and faster ways to do this low level tweaking without them. I'd rather model without them, as i stated they are faster. Heres a question for you, if even the basic move manipulator is turn off(not visible) how well you move your points around? My point is they either are dependent or independent of manipulators in terms of workflow..i have yet to see a 3DCG software they did both very well(maybe Modo is the exception).

Modo seems to work without this universal manipulator just fine. Just hope they dont start thinking we should use a manipulator for everything :P jking

onlooker
09-01-2004, 05:51 AM
Well sure, but if mirai is anything like wings the way everything seems to move in the wrong @ss backwards direction I know I'm going to hate it already.
In Maya you don't need to use the manipulator for everything, you can highlight the area of effect in the channel box, and drag. I do it all the time.
I still think it can be added to modo if it already isn't present, and it wont be a hinderance to the current applications strengths without a manipulator. I also do not doubt that it would probably be better to include it first rather than get flooded by emails about it.

Funny thing is I'm not even the guy that wanted it to begin with.

Renderman_XSI
09-01-2004, 06:03 AM
Well sure, but if mirai is anything like wings the way everything seems to move in the wrong @ss backwards direction I know I'm going to hate it already.
In Maya you don't need to use the manipulator for everything, you can highlight the area of effect in the channel box, and drag. I do it all the time.
I still think it can be added to modo if it already isn't present, and it wont be a hinderance to the current applications strengths without a manipulator. I also do not doubt that it would probably be better to include it first rather than get flooded by emails about it.

Funny thing is I'm not even the guy that wanted it to begin with. Good point, but there is still limitations with that Maya appoarch(nor is it ideal or elegent). BTW wings3D is a clone of Nendo(though wings3D has evolved to surpass Nendo in many ways), and Nendo and Mirai workflow are totally different. However i do agree that they can be included without hinderance to the current workflow. My fear WAS it might turn into another 3DSMAX,Maya, XSI, than what would be the point in buying Modo? What i like about Modo is the Morph Maps, same as Mirai(ok almost the same,close enough). The thing with manipulators is they have limitations, like a scale manipulator, try scaling a mesh in both X and Y direction independently with one mouse click?For me a good fast workflow is everything. You can already model at the speed of thought in Mirai rofl i love Lux marketing :D

BTW i havent used LW3D since version 5, been waiiting for it to evolved into something more. But seems like Lux is doing it.

Griffon
09-01-2004, 06:36 AM
modo supports both "hauling" or just dragging in the viewport AND manipulators.

Personally, having spent years modeling in LW, I now pretty much only use the manipulators. I do mainly mechanical stuff.

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=165950

I find they work extremely well with alternate workplanes.

Beamtracer
09-01-2004, 06:43 AM
Download would be the best way [to deliver Modo to customers]. I've got a 1.5Mb/sec link, so I can easily handle a 1GB file... I doubt if Lux will do it. 3D apps tend not to be available for purchase via download.
I wouldn't take that bet....
__________________
-Eric
Luxology LLC
I take Eric's comment to mean that Modo may be available for purchase and download within a few days. This is fantastic news, that a download option may be available.

Xtrude
09-01-2004, 06:43 AM
turn em on/off is a good option... so is not having to hold down the lmb once things are selected and you are translating a move/op/dolly/pan etc... as is the case with Wings3d... :D

Labuzz
09-01-2004, 07:12 AM
Hi there,
I have take a look at Modo yesterday at Apple Expo in Paris. First of all there s no revolution at all and I am still waiting for the perfect Modeler, Modo v1 isnt going to change that....Sadly
they have add edges ( for the LW user its a huge benefice. You can *think* modeling with edges ), a complete custom UI, interactive clone tools ( Arrays...)....
BUT :
NO TRANSPARENCY in viewport in V1 ( well you have it just for the background)....And this is a huge mistake in my opinion if they want to sell Modo in the 3d real time field....Max, Maya XSI have this very important basic feature.

No lattices...

No way to check UVs distortion....I have ask for it...

No way to check a standard bend tool.

I havnt check the interactive Relax

The pinching display ( on subdiv and subpatch ) problem still exists, for me it does influence your modeling somewhere...

No thick display border ( Geometry border, UVs borders ) edges ( Custom polygon display in Maya ), I havnt seen any texture and wireframe, No way to have a basic UV projection to check the manipulators, UVs manipulation....I have ask for it several times, I have just see a cut in a sphere ( with UVs )....and your UVs are still intact...Nothing crazy.

No PSD loader, or link...

No complete Bezier tools ( No trim, extend, offset, Boolean, No perfect circle....Well the good olds lightwave splines) and I am not talking about Nurbs here. In Max Nurbs are ultra crappy but all the Spline tools are VERY useful to generalte Polys.

Yep its a good upgrade for the lw user but not THE modeler.

Release date : end september/ early October.

BTW hopfully Modo is still REALLY based on components ( like LW ) for modeling...not based on a *transform node* ....But I havn't really try Mirai so I cant comment.

Nemoid
09-01-2004, 12:58 PM
Thanx Eric for the reply on manipulators.

incidentally, my request and comment about manipulators was not for asking a manipulator dependant workflow, like could happenin other packages, but to have the possibility of enabling manipulators for those users wich are used to a different workflow, and wouldn't feel at home in Modo. there's nothing wrong in having no manipulators, even if in Modo this isn't the case.
i personally am used to Lw modeler and like its workflow in most cases, so i don't think i wont feel at home in Modo, (even if i have to try it and judge)

The rendering seems good and i really hope is powerful as its showed. Waiting to know more on animation tools and capability but maybe it's a bit early.

Thanx labuzz, for your opinions about Modo i personally don't expect a complete revolution into a 1.0 release. i'm pretty confident Lux will pay attention to its customers and will enhance and refine it in not so much time, due to the package structure.

Just look at how Silo is evolving currently and you guys will get my point. Maybe there's much to do, but surely these guys will do it. Also we don't know what exactly Nexus is so maybe some real excitement will come at its release.

Even XSI 1.0 was not so cool, but look what it has become now due to a solid base and structure.

ChristianFischer
09-01-2004, 01:21 PM
The pinching display ( on subdiv and subpatch ) problem still exists, for me it does influence your modeling somewhere...
hi labuzz.

what is this pinching display problem?

and do you now something about the symmetry mode in modo?
is it the same symmetry as in lightwave so i can model without having a centerline?

gustojunk
09-01-2004, 01:23 PM
NO TRANSPARENCY in viewport in V1 ( well you have it just for the background)....

No lattices...

No way to check a standard bend tool.

No thick display border ( Geometry border, UVs borders ) edges ( Custom polygon display in Maya ), I havnt seen any texture and wireframe,

No complete Bezier tools ( No trim, extend, offset, Boolean, No perfect circle....Well the good olds lightwave splines)
Thanks for the report Labuzz, but I have to ask, ARE YOU SURE? about all these things missing. It seems like s shot in the foot not to have such staple items like those in a kickass modeler. Are you saying that you have not actually seen those features, or that you have asked about them and the Lux people confirmed they don't have them?

Thanks,

Gustavo

Labuzz
09-01-2004, 03:07 PM
No transparency -> 100% sure. there's a basic material editor in modo...With no transparency attribute. The demo guy have said that since Modo can t display transparency ( I wanted him to show me some examples with transparency )in viewport there's no transaparency attribute.

No Lattices -> 100% sure maybe in the future....blabla...

I have ask him to show me a standard bend tool with the manipulator but he has show me something different....

I have ask him to show me a model with some textures on it( I wanted to check differents things like UVs distortion, UV manipulation....)....he has said that he has no images on the machine....I was very disapointed....

No nice display feature like thick display border edges....100 sure

No good and complete Bezier tools -> 100% sure

mushroomgod
09-01-2004, 03:15 PM
Dosent sound to good :(


we know the price but not the features....somthing wrong somwhere :(

I wonder if anyone has parted with there cash yet?

js33
09-01-2004, 03:58 PM
No transparency -> 100% sure. there's a basic material editor in modo...With no transparency attribute. The demo guy have said that since Modo can t display transparency ( I wanted him to show me some examples with transparency )in viewport there's no transaparency attribute.

No Lattices -> 100% sure maybe in the future....blabla...

I have ask him to show me a standard bend tool with the manipulator but he has show me something different....

I have ask him to show me a model with some textures on it( I wanted to check differents things like UVs distortion, UV manipulation....)....he has said that he has no images on the machine....I was very disapointed....

No nice display feature like thick display border edges....100 sure

No good and complete Bezier tools -> 100% sure

If these don't exist did they say these features would never come to the program?

Cheers,
JS

Labuzz
09-01-2004, 04:10 PM
I am pretty sure that there's a LOT of Lightwave user ( Check the Newtek forum...Peoples are screaming for this features for years now...) who are waiting for this.
Future is the easy answer...And Newtek is no longer there as the bad boy....
For me there's really a room for a very complete POLY modeler.
They have just said this : its only V1.00. Basically they was just there ( Gregory D was there too ) to show those things that you can see in the Luxology.com web site no more .

lwbob
09-01-2004, 04:17 PM
If these don't exist did they say these features would never come to the program?

You mean in something like V1.1? :) I remember hearing all sort of crap about how much Maya 1.0 was garbage and buggy as hell by some of the studios using it. I heard plenty of gripes about XSI 1.0 too. Max 1.0 sucked harder than a hoover upright. I also remember hearing that with the new development that it would be killer for anyone to add their own tools to along with future upgrades from Luxology. Now that this team doesn't ahve the straight jacked of marketing and suits locking them into half assed core code lock we might see them banging out features overnight. I'm willing to bet that since V1.0 is so close they have been in code freeze for a while and are kicking out the bugs.

One of the big things during release will be the SDK. I want to see what happens with 3rd party developers.

Nemoid
09-01-2004, 06:13 PM
Well, every new app needs some time to become really efficient, so release 1.0 will be the starting point i think.

Also i agree about the SDK : let 3rd party developers do some stuff for the app too as it happens for the others. with a so opened structure good things will be possible.

Another things they said, is that they will listen really much to the user community . I hope so, because it will bring a good development and enhancing process. :D

gustojunk
09-01-2004, 07:22 PM
Thnaks for the confirmation Labuzz.

I'm very understanding about not having everything making a 1.0 release. But, I think a demo will tell what features missing is a big deal and what is not.

I can tell you though, that I did not but Silo for instance until 1.2 camo out. And that was just because it was only $109 bucks. Considering Modo's price point, I'm going to be quite a bit more demanding. I might keep my wallet in my pocket and keep using Silo in the meantime.

nuclearfessel
09-01-2004, 07:23 PM
Well, every new app needs some time to become really efficient, so release 1.0 will be the starting point i think.

Also i agree about the SDK : let 3rd party developers do some stuff for the app too as it happens for the others. with a so opened structure good things will be possible.

Another things they said, is that they will listen really much to the user community . I hope so, because it will bring a good development and enhancing process. :D
i agree on this... version 1 is usually a starting point to an app... a lot of things are probably in the works and in the meantime, we just have to be patient and just use what fits our current toolset.

on the pricing point, i recently sent in a pre-order request to Lux from the site and also inquired on whether there would be a LW user special. this is the reply i got this morning from sales:


Hello,

Thank you for your interest in Modo. You will be able to pre-order Modo later this week from our website at www.luxology.com.

Introductory price will be $695. No special pricing for LightWave users has been officially announced.

Thank you again,
Luxology Customer Service Team

Just thought i'd share

cheers

lwbob
09-01-2004, 08:41 PM
[/url]Introductory price will be $695. No special pricing for LightWave users has been officially announced. No rendering or animation modules have been officially announced either.


[url="http://www.rendernode.com/files/videos/siggraph2004/modo.mov"]Rendernode siggraph videos (http://www.rendernode.com/articles.php?articleId=192)


The video mentions some things related to the manipulator stuff on the other page.

nuclearfessel
09-01-2004, 08:48 PM
No rendering or animation modules have been officially announced either.


Rendernode siggraph videos (http://www.rendernode.com/files/videos/siggraph2004/modo.mov)


The video mentions some things related to the manipulator stuff on the other page.
if you watch the Key Note from Apple Expo in paris, Brad mentions that Nexus will be next year sometime

nuclearfessel
09-01-2004, 09:02 PM
by the way, i don't know how many of you saw the Rendernode video but did you notice that Modo is running on a Windows XP machine in this presentation... :)

lwbob
09-01-2004, 09:10 PM
if you watch the Key Note from Apple Expo in paris, Brad mentions that Nexus will be next year sometime
If you watch the Key Note from Apple Expo in paris you aren't reading an official press release. :)

nuclearfessel
09-01-2004, 09:19 PM
If you watch the Key Note from Apple Expo in paris you aren't reading an official press release. :)
considering he said next year and noticing how they release information, i wouldn't be holding my breath on nexus anytime soon. it might be a while considering they are still working on it. :)

lwbob
09-01-2004, 09:26 PM
Even so, seeing it in action is a far cry from the two or three years the naysayers have been predicting.

private
09-02-2004, 02:34 AM
Evidence of this can be found in newer applications like Cinema 4D, which has been rewritten several times, Softimage XSI and even Mac OSX. Each of these has very regular updates, and get substantially more powerful with each update. It's not that their programmers are all that more talented, it's just that making changes is that much easier. I may be oversimplifying here, but hopefully this will help others understand.

I'm leery of speculating too much, but based on all the evidence, I'd say we'll see Luxology's apps ramp up fairly quickly and become quite the contender in a year or two. If the SDK is well-built and easy to design for, then perhaps we'll see a Shave or Renderman for Nexus (or whatever it will be called) fairly quickly. Newtek made mention that they had a roadmap in place to code Mac Lightwave in XCode, so it appears that changes may be going on within Newtek...it's going to be interesting to see what happens in 2005.
You could say that Modo really isn't version 1. They've had 7 major versions of experience.

lwbob
09-02-2004, 02:19 PM
You could say that Modo really isn't version 1. They've had 7 major versions of experience. They could but Newtek would start climbing up their butt about that. :)

So then we would also be looking at numbers like Max 11, Maya 16, XSI 7.8 or something like that. They seem to be behind in techology for double digit version numbers. :)

Nemoid
09-02-2004, 06:35 PM
1.0 release of a software can't easily be heavily revolutionary even because only users can request the good things related to the apps workflow to enhance it properly.
Even Zbrush 1.0 was not what we have now, so no prob with some Modo lacks here and there at its start.

Maybe i will sound harsh, but Lux guys have the experience of Lw developing, but since now, they haven't as a company, the complete experience of producing and selling a 3d package for several years. so let Modo /Nexus have some story as an app to,before judging completely.

So i 'm not so worried for some things lacking in Modo right now, because i think they want to hear users and costumers and will add the tools requested for sure.

1.0 is always a start, and Modo/Nexus isn't Lightwave at all despite some obvious inheritance being Lux founders the original writers of Modeler and Layout.

moovieboy
09-02-2004, 07:12 PM
Well, thanks to some connections :D, I was able to preview some video on Nexus and admittedly, I am once again both impressed and eager to check it out under the hood!

Very curious how the whole suite would be priced...

-Tom

amygdalae
09-02-2004, 07:17 PM
Wait... Why do I want to spend $900 on an incomplete 1st release modeler-only 3d package?

I'm not sure if any of you guys out there would actually use Modo, but it seems like vaporware from my perspective. People get excited about the demos and threads, but it's ultimately a very thin premise to coax 900 bucks out of anyone's pocket in my opinion.

I start to chuckle when I see the Q&A asking Brad when Modo will be able to do certain things equivalent to XSI, when I can (and did) just buy XSI for 500 bucks.

I'm not sure there's much room for niche packages like modo, mirai, messiah at the pricepoint they offer and the lack of industry use they suffer from. You might run into messiah at some smaller LW shops, but for the most part you're going to be sitting behind maya or xsi at most film studios. Personally, I'd rather concentrate on making Maya work for me while bestowing my closet 'i wish i were using this at work' feelings on XSI.

But really... a dedicated modeler for 900 bucks? I'm not even sure lightwave is worth what they're charging. Sorry, just looking at this from a 'why the hell would i ever use this' standpoint.

mushroomgod
09-02-2004, 07:29 PM
But really... a dedicated modeler for 900 bucks? I'm not even sure lightwave is worth what they're charging. Sorry, just looking at this from a 'why the hell would i ever use this' standpoint.For the most part I agree with what you say. But....if its does everything i like/want etc then I will buy it (for $700 only, nomatter how good it is i will never buy it for $900).

Im sitting on the fence about the app...we know more about its cost than we do about its features, so how can we honistly say we will/will not buy it untill lux tells us what it has and what it does not have.

Anyway........waiting for demo......

lwbob
09-02-2004, 07:35 PM
I'm not sure if any of you guys out there would actually use Modo, but it seems like vaporware from my perspective. Seems like a troll post at this point already..

Why would I want to even consider Maya since pretty much 100% of the users have to code their own crap to use it anyway.

nuclearfessel
09-02-2004, 07:47 PM
Wait... Why do I want to spend $900 on an incomplete 1st release modeler-only 3d package?

I'm not sure if any of you guys out there would actually use Modo, but it seems like vaporware from my perspective. People get excited about the demos and threads, but it's ultimately a very thin premise to coax 900 bucks out of anyone's pocket in my opinion.

I start to chuckle when I see the Q&A asking Brad when Modo will be able to do certain things equivalent to XSI, when I can (and did) just buy XSI for 500 bucks.

I'm not sure there's much room for niche packages like modo, mirai, messiah at the pricepoint they offer and the lack of industry use they suffer from. You might run into messiah at some smaller LW shops, but for the most part you're going to be sitting behind maya or xsi at most film studios. Personally, I'd rather concentrate on making Maya work for me while bestowing my closet 'i wish i were using this at work' feelings on XSI.

But really... a dedicated modeler for 900 bucks? I'm not even sure lightwave is worth what they're charging. Sorry, just looking at this from a 'why the hell would i ever use this' standpoint.

bitter much?

LFGabel
09-02-2004, 07:50 PM
Pretty GUI + Apple in your back pocket = $900 modeler

... not that there's anything bad or wrong with that... ;) I love the look of Modo.

lwbob
09-02-2004, 07:55 PM
On another forum someone pointed out that while Modo is just a modeler, it is half the price of LW. If they release a killer animation/rendering module and I get the tools that kick LW's butt at the same price, plus allow for expansion more than LW allows for I'll look into getting it. XSI's price drop sounds great, it looks like a powerful application, why hasn't it caught on like it should have?

creative destructions
09-02-2004, 08:04 PM
Check out this deal.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3771&item=3697089527&rd=1

lwbob
09-02-2004, 08:11 PM
Check out this deal.
I mean a new license not someone jumping ship. :)

Good find though.

amygdalae
09-02-2004, 08:33 PM
Pretty GUI + Apple in your back pocket = $900 modeler

... not that there's anything bad or wrong with that... ;) I love the look of Modo.
The interface is beautiful, but it's hard to justify the expense. I know it's tough being a startup trying to sell a new tool and not go bankrupt when companies like Alias & Soft are essentially cutting down to loss-leading prices on software based on R&D which has pretty much been long paid for (and seldom fundamentally improved). I always liked Mirai's modeling tools for doing character work, but could never justify the expense of buying an expensive product from a company I wasnt sure would stick around, to do only one thing (modeling) with it.

I dont mean to troll or piss off the lightwave guys, I just honestly wonder how they plan to compete at that pricepoint. I could see it being a pretty rocky path for lux until they have something more to offer or a lower price. As for maya, it seems to have the most raw capability out of the box, although it takes some work to get things to ACTUALLY do what they're supposed to. I've used lightwave in production before and the whole data flow/plug-in architecture always kind of annoyed me. To each his own I guess, but still beside the point.

FunBucket
09-02-2004, 08:50 PM
There's no way I'd ever spend $700-900 for a modeler. Silo is awesome enough as it is! Plus I could throw in zBrush, too, and still not spend as much as I would with Modo.

But I'm not interested in Modo by itself. If Lux releases their complete package for $1600-2000 THEN I'll definitely consider it. I don't think Lux is going to sell near as many copies of just Modo as they will the complete Nexus package. Assuming Nexus will be at a good price and will be every bit as complete as Maya. AT THE LEAST! :)

prajna
09-02-2004, 08:54 PM
I dont mean to troll or piss off the lightwave guys, I just honestly wonder how they plan to compete at that pricepoint.


I foresee more bundling type deals. Otherwise, who knows? Many of us are wondering the very same thing.




*

policarpo
09-02-2004, 08:57 PM
A true coupe would be to offer the Modeling, Animation and Rendering Modules to existing LW owners at the cost of a typical LW upgrade in exchange for their dongles. :twisted:

Thalaxis
09-02-2004, 09:38 PM
You have a diabolical mind, Policarpo!

If they want to raise the ante yet another level after Soft's XSI price drop, that would do it!

gustojunk
09-02-2004, 09:40 PM
Well I think , we should give the Lux guys a change to shows us what they've got. I personally think is ok being critical, I made some critical comments myself. But above all we should wait and see what they got to offer. I Can't wait to see a pleasant surprise!

js33
09-02-2004, 09:43 PM
A true coupe would be to offer the Modeling, Animation and Rendering Modules to existing LW owners at the cost of a typical LW upgrade in exchange for their dongles. :twisted:
Well that would ony work as long as Modo/Nexus is able to open all my LW scenes and object files. Otherwise I would never part with my LW dongle as I have too much work created in it that is worth much more than both programs cost. But of course I'm all for a special deal for LW users. :thumbsup:

Cheers,
JS

policarpo
09-02-2004, 10:05 PM
:twisted:

We are living in a great time everyone. The tools are attainable by almost every artist from every walk of life...so now developers are focusing on the workflow of their applications and making things more responsive and receptive to the artist/creator. Those developers who heed this vision and nurture it will be the ones to make it through this next stage of evolution in the DCC marketplace.

Whatever happens happens and in the end we, the artists, will benefit.

Keep the voices loud and storm the studio you great creators everywhere! :buttrock:

Chaz
09-02-2004, 11:09 PM
A true coupe would be to offer the Modeling, Animation and Rendering Modules to existing LW owners at the cost of a typical LW upgrade in exchange for their dongles. :twisted:

I'd give that some serious consideration if they did offer that. After adding Cinema XL to my toolset recently, I'm really interested in seeing what alternatives are out there. Cinema is really tight.

Incidentally, someone sent me a link to the Nexus (http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/images/appleexpoparis042/image018.html) demo at Apple Expo. It's a much clearer image than what you see in the stream. Looks like it includes a node-based scene manager!

Xacto
09-02-2004, 11:59 PM
So, pre-order will begin somtime this or next week. When will the program itself be available? I remember pre-ordering LW8 only to wait over a year to get it. Anyone know?

FoSale
09-03-2004, 12:22 AM
You can pre order now via email sales dept , and their release target is end of sept about.

leuey
09-03-2004, 02:45 AM
Justifying the expense is pretty relative. If you actually make any money as animator $900 is nothing. I mean really. If you're a decent modeler you make that up in 2 days. If you're a good modeler you make that up in 1 day. If you're a small company you make more than that in 1 day. If you're a large company you double what you payed in 1 day. Since when is $900 a major business investment? There was a legit issue w/ Maya 1.0 being $40K and buggy running on hardware that was between $15K and $50K. But $900 and a couple K for a workstation is a lot?????? Are you kidding?

It seems to me (and I've said this before - like a parrot, bwak!!) - for a hobbyist it's a lot. So if you're a hobbyist (or a student) you can pick up wings/silo/XSI F. or whatever and model your brains out. If the morph map export to Maya saves a professional 1 day...1 FREAKING DAY!! (yes, I'm yelling) - than the expense is justified(!).

SHeeeeesh.

-Greg


The interface is beautiful, but it's hard to justify the expense. I know it's tough being a startup trying to sell a new tool and not go bankrupt when companies like Alias & always kind of annoyed me. To each his own I guess, but still beside the point.

DMack
09-03-2004, 07:55 AM
I agree with Greg... I can't help but think that people want things too cheaply nowdays. It's easy to look at some other recent price drops and then compare modo less favourably but you have to ask yourself...is the new low pricing really realistic...can those companies continue in the long term to innovate to the level we all want? Let's face it, the 3D market is a limited one in terms of maximum seats sellable....if all the sw prices tumble....it just can't be good for us longer term. No substantial investment, no substantial innovation. Personally, for a major tool in a professional toolkit, $900, as greg said, is nothing! And regards hobbyists (an important part of the industry in terms of potential new talent) - higher end apps tend to filter features down to less expensive options (a bit like F1 racing cars to normal road cars!!).

David

CB_3D
09-03-2004, 09:03 AM
Justifying the expense is pretty relative. If you actually make any money as animator $900 is nothing. I mean really. If you're a decent modeler you make that up in 2 days.-Greg
Greg, it really depends where you are. I work as a freelancer in Portugal and like to think that i am pretty good. Still, 900 IS an investment for me i have to think twice about making. Between house, food, car and supporting the family it can make quite a difference. This is a very competitive market where are prices no longer made considering 40k Maya investments.

I am competing with students who use cracked Max and C4d, unfortunately, so i reallly donīt have thousands to spend on software and have to be extremely carefull.

juanjgon
09-03-2004, 09:17 AM
I am competing with students who use cracked Max and C4d, unfortunately, so i reallly donīt have thousands to spend on software and have to be extremely carefull.

Yes ... this kind of situation is here in Spain too ... prices drops because too not professional competitors gives solutions to a non profesional trained market. But anyway ... i think that in normal professional market 900$ for a complete solution for modeling, that speed up your workflow and give you more tools in your daily work (in case of modeling perhaps more than 50% of my work time), is not really hi cost ... perhaps with only one project you can but it ....

leuey
09-03-2004, 10:23 AM
CB_3D, yes you're right. There are other factors and I don't want to sound arrogant. It is an investment to think about - I'm just a little annoyed at the 'this costs way too much' crowd. A $900 investment can go a long way, years even. I'm sure Luxology will have a similar upgrade policy as LW had - which is a really good one. About $500 every year or two - and no dumbass maintainence contract (at least I hope). Honestly though, 3D is an area where you can invest very little and with some talent and hard work make a lot. Try starting a career as a lawyer and complaining about a $900 investment in your future. Or even a truck driver, or hotdog vendor. It's not much. The ROI in 3D can be just huge. There are English majors out there spending 50K for a degree that will net them half that per year at best. Like I said, you can re-coup a software and hardware investment in 1 job and that investment will earn you money for another year or two (I tend to updrade hardware/software every two years. If you you sell food or goods you have to re-invest in your biz daily - production is not so bad, talent costs a lot more than the tools...).

best,

Greg



Greg, it really depends where you are. I work as a freelancer in Portugal and like to think that i am pretty good. Still, 900 IS an investment for me i have to think twice about making. Between house, food, car and supporting the family it can make quite a difference. This is a very competitive market where are prices no longer made considering 40k Maya investments.

I am competing with students who use cracked Max and C4d, unfortunately, so i reallly donīt have thousands to spend on software and have to be extremely carefull.

mushroomgod
09-03-2004, 03:06 PM
i dont think this has been posted yet....sorry if it has..

http://www.rendernode.com/articles.php?articleId=192

3rd one down, 20min modo presentation.

amygdalae
09-03-2004, 06:11 PM
Justifying the expense is pretty relative. If you actually make any money as animator $900 is nothing. I mean really. If you're a decent modeler you make that up in 2 days. If you're a good modeler you make that up in 1 day. If you're a small company you make more than that in 1 day. If you're a large company you double what you payed in 1 day. Since when is $900 a major business investment? There was a legit issue w/ Maya 1.0 being $40K and buggy running on hardware that was between $15K and $50K. But $900 and a couple K for a workstation is a lot?????? Are you kidding?

It seems to me (and I've said this before - like a parrot, bwak!!) - for a hobbyist it's a lot. So if you're a hobbyist (or a student) you can pick up wings/silo/XSI F. or whatever and model your brains out. If the morph map export to Maya saves a professional 1 day...1 FREAKING DAY!! (yes, I'm yelling) - than the expense is justified(!).

SHeeeeesh.

-Greg
My point was, why would I, as an invidual spend as much as other complete packages cost for a modeler that no major studio is going to adopt; something I'll never use at my day job. There's simply no reason for ilm, sony, pdi|dw, pixar, or any other large studio to modify their existing pipelines to accomadate a standalone semi-lightwave-centric modeler to their already functional pipeline. It doesnt make sense to me to invest and learn a package that I will not use in a paying gig. If you're a freelancer, use whatever you want. Most places have an established pipeline and getting new software into the house isnt exactly easy.

I know it can be paid for, but i could also probably flush 900 bucks down my toilet and not miss rent or a meal.. doesnt mean I would.

Nemoid
09-03-2004, 06:27 PM
IMO, even if Modo is Lw centric, it will be adopted IF modelling in it will be easier than into other apps. as a Lw user i can say, modellig in lw is better and funnier than in Maya (I don't talk about XSI cause i have to try it yet).
since Modo at least starts to couple Lw's modeler toolset with Maya and XSI kinda approach to modelling (ngons, edges and much more) i guess modelling in Modo will be even better.

Also studios buy what they feel they need if it improves their job.
One problem against Modo,could be something like Silo, because its good and cheap rather than apps like Maya. sure that u can model very well in Maya, but for example in Lw you have quite the same feeling of clay, the only great and funnier exception being ZBrush.

There are Lw artists like Taron and others wich can model things in Lw faster than I can draw em, literally minutes, not hours.and this is also allowed by the app itself coupled with their astonishing knowledge and abilty.

nuclearfessel
09-03-2004, 06:27 PM
My point was, why would I, as an invidual spend as much as other complete packages cost for a modeler that no major studio is going to adopt; something I'll never use at my day job. There's simply no reason for ilm, sony, pdi|dw, pixar, or any other large studio to modify their existing pipelines to accomadate a standalone semi-lightwave-centric modeler to their already functional pipeline. It doesnt make sense to me to invest and learn a package that I will not use in a paying gig. If you're a freelancer, use whatever you want. Most places have an established pipeline and getting new software into the house isnt exactly easy.

I know it can be paid for, but i could also probably flush 900 bucks down my toilet and not miss rent or a meal.. doesnt mean I would.
while your point is agreed to, nobody's saying that you should buy Modo if you are satisfied with you current toolset, but you can't predict which tool major studios will or will not adopt for their pipeline, unless you are spokesperson for one of the them.

f97ao
09-03-2004, 06:40 PM
Justifying the expense is pretty relative. If you actually make any money as animator $900 is nothing. I mean really. If you're a decent modeler you make that up in 2 days. If you're a good modeler you make that up in 1 day. If you're a small company you make more than that in 1 day. If you're a large company you double what you payed in 1 day. Since when is $900 a major business investment? There was a legit issue w/ Maya 1.0 being $40K and buggy running on hardware that was between $15K and $50K. But $900 and a couple K for a workstation is a lot?????? Are you kidding?

It seems to me (and I've said this before - like a parrot, bwak!!) - for a hobbyist it's a lot. So if you're a hobbyist (or a student) you can pick up wings/silo/XSI F. or whatever and model your brains out. If the morph map export to Maya saves a professional 1 day...1 FREAKING DAY!! (yes, I'm yelling) - than the expense is justified(!).

SHeeeeesh.

-Greg
Hehe, yes I must say I agree with Greg here pretty much. I'm getting somewhat worried to the new prices in the industry. Sure I'm glad the ultra expensive days are gone, and that you can buy good modeling applications for a few hundred dollars. But I wonder if the industry will really survive if we have to press down the prices to 100-300 dollars for very complex packages.

I'm working on a modeling plugin for 3dsmax, that speeds up modeling speed with 20-100 times for larger models and have a hard time to price it. Some keep saying I should price it below 100 dollars, but seriously if I price it at 50 dollars how many programs do I have to sell just to pay for several month of developement time?? 1000-10000? not so realistic numbers..

I think that modeling will soon be outsourced to programs like Silo and Lux, since modeling with large and complex objects will not really be possible with the existing program in an efficient way.

/Andreas

ChristianFischer
09-03-2004, 06:40 PM
Preordering via the modo web site should start today, according to their website ("before end of august"). It will be interesting to see if it does, or if they are delayed.

It will be delayed for a few days.

how many days are "a few"?

A few meaning by the end of the week. Unless a major catastrophe happens, then all bets are off. :)
so will it be released today or did a major catastrophe happen? :D

Goon
09-03-2004, 06:43 PM
Preordering via the modo web site should start today

ChristianFischer
09-03-2004, 06:58 PM
thats what i meant with "release" ... my fault

amygdalae
09-03-2004, 07:02 PM
IMO, even if Modo is Lw centric, it will be adopted IF modelling in it will be easier than into other apps. as a Lw user i can say, modellig in lw is better and funnier than in Maya (I don't talk about XSI cause i have to try it yet).
since Modo at least starts to couple Lw's modeler toolset with Maya and XSI kinda approach to modelling (ngons, edges and much more) i guess modelling in Modo will be even better.

Also studios buy what they feel they need if it improves their job.
One problem against Modo,could be something like Silo, because its good and cheap rather than apps like Maya. sure that u can model very well in Maya, but for example in Lw you have quite the same feeling of clay, the only great and funnier exception being ZBrush.

There are Lw artists like Taron and others wich can model things in Lw faster than I can draw em, literally minutes, not hours.and this is also allowed by the app itself coupled with their astonishing knowledge and abilty.
I guess you're sort of proving my point... Most modelers in large pipelines are satisfied with the commercial & in-house tools they already have. I'm not speaking for anyone, just throwing in my wooden nickel.

leuey
09-03-2004, 07:12 PM
No, actually you do presume to speak for everyone working at a large company. You say authoritatively that no large production house will use something like Modo. You say authoritatively that most modelers in large pipelines are satisfied w/ their tools.

Let me pose this......How the hell do you know what you're talking about? These are just off the cuff, uninformed **opinions**. You have absolutely no idea what companies will adopt Modo (my opinion is quite a few will - many of the programmers and beta testers have either worked for/worked with/or are currently working for large companies - of course there's interest in something that can help the bottom line. They may or may not buy it, but you don't have a clue. Do you?)

If everybody's so satisifed w/ their current software then why all the intersest in this product? And there is undeniably interest, maybe more interest than any impending release since anything since Maya 1.0.

Such a strange thing to speak for everybody at large companies by telling us all how they won't buy it. Then wrap up by saying you're not speaking for anybody...

If you have an opinion, preface it with 'In my opinion' or, if you will - 'IMO'. That's why that acronym exists, so you don't sound like you're speaking for everybody.

-Greg



I guess you're sort of proving my point... Most modelers in large pipelines are satisfied with the commercial & in-house tools they already have. I'm not speaking for anyone, just throwing in my wooden nickel.

SheepFactory
09-03-2004, 07:33 PM
Guys enough with the negativity. Time will tell , the software isnt even released yet , wait a few months before making predictions about the future of modo.

BazC
09-03-2004, 07:55 PM
"I'm not speaking for anyone, just throwing in my wooden nickel."

Well IMO the above statement means "in my opinion"!
I don't know why so many people on the web find it impossible to disagree or question another persons opinion without being offensive. Amygdalae's opinion is just as valid as yours leuey and much more pleasurable to read!

I've heard nothing to suggest that Modo is going to improve modelling workflow enough to make any commercial studio choose it in preference to Maya, XSI, Max, Lightwave or Cinema if they have already invested in those packages. Especially when you have Silo at a fraction of the cost already available, Mirai just around the corner and possibly Clay too.

So IMO Amygdalae's post was totally valid, that's just my opinion of course! ;o)

SOPLAND
09-03-2004, 08:23 PM
Justifying the expense is pretty relative. If you actually make any money as animator $900 is nothing. I mean really. If you're a decent modeler you make that up in 2 days. If you're a good modeler you make that up in 1 day. If you're a small company you make more than that in 1 day. If you're a large company you double what you payed in 1 day. Since when is $900 a major business investment? There was a legit issue w/ Maya 1.0 being $40K and buggy running on hardware that was between $15K and $50K. But $900 and a couple K for a workstation is a lot?????? Are you kidding?

It seems to me (and I've said this before - like a parrot, bwak!!) - for a hobbyist it's a lot. So if you're a hobbyist (or a student) you can pick up wings/silo/XSI F. or whatever and model your brains out. If the morph map export to Maya saves a professional 1 day...1 FREAKING DAY!! (yes, I'm yelling) - than the expense is justified(!).

SHeeeeesh.

-Greg
Where are you getting all these lucrative contracts from where you are pickling up $900 in a day or two. In my experience freelance is, make 900 in a day, then stuggle for a couple weeks looking for another contract. $900 dollars can be a pretty hefty expense.

ndog
09-03-2004, 08:41 PM
Are those US dollars? :)

Para
09-03-2004, 08:57 PM
In case you haven't thought about it, 900 for one day job is actually a huge amount of money outside USA. There's not much else to say.

Balusilustalu
09-03-2004, 09:13 PM
There's simply no reason for ilm, sony, pdi|dw, pixar, or any other large studio to modify their existing pipelines to accomadate a standalone semi-lightwave-centric modeler to their already functional pipeline. Don't be too sure about that. Pipelines aren't a rigid thing that cannot be changed. They need to be flexible to a degree to stay on top of the game. If there is a better tool out there companies will try them out and adopt them if it suits their needs. If not, then fine, no harm done.
What you won't be likely to see is companies change tools whilst in the middle of a project. That's dangerous territory. :)
But to exlude all new tools and technologies with a 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' mentality is ludicrous. There's always room for improvement.
In actuality you'll find in most big companies there to be a whole range of different software packages floating around. Most artists prefer a specific set of tools and will work better/quicker with them. At a lot places there is a certain amount of latitude to be found with regards to personal software choices. Particularly in the field of modeling. Simply because they are the easiest to slot into a pipeline (as opposed to for example a render engine).

ndog
09-03-2004, 09:16 PM
That's a huge amount in the U.S. as well. IF you can do it day in and day out. Let's see, 200 working days a year, $900 a day = $180,000 a year.

My point was that if it was 900 Indian rupees then it would be about 20 dollars U.S.

leuey
09-03-2004, 09:25 PM
Yes, that's valid - I thought somebody may bring that up.

In case you haven't thought about it, 900 for one day job is actually a huge amount of money outside USA. There's not much else to say.

That was my experience too when I first started about 10 years ago. If you don't have consistent work 3 years in you may want to consider another career (not trying to be offensive, but is it really worth it to struggle for weeks at a time years on end?). I suppose I should have pre-faced it 'For those freelancers who have consistent work'. As far as 'picking up $900 in a day or two', I charge more than that for 1 day - and so does everybody else w/ my experience here in Silicon Valley. There is regional variability though, and my work experience is in Cal. and NYC - so I stand corrected there in terms of some people's 'affordability'.

Where are you getting all these lucrative contracts from where you are pickling up $900 in a day or two. In my experience freelance is, make 900 in a day, then stuggle for a couple weeks looking for another contract. $900 dollars can be a pretty hefty expense.
Not trying to be negative, I came down a little hard on amygdalae, but I thought it was a little presumptuous to state (twice) major studios won't be using Modo anyway. Which is a little naive. If they won't be using it and it's 'too expensive' for freelancers I guess that makes the people at Luxology idiots, doesn't it? I wonder how they've been able to do this for nearly 15 years being such idiots...That being said I wouldn't be surprised to see a price drop at some point depending on how the market responds (feel free to call me the idiot at that point). If it doesn't, well I guess that means people are buying it.

I'm (obviously) shocked at the number of people who think $900 is too much for something you can build a career around - and many people around here obviously agree w/ me.

best,

Greg

FoSale
09-03-2004, 09:48 PM
Pffffff...

You guys have all been trolled by amygdalae . :rolleyes:

one of the cool new functions of the upgraded Forum thingaMAJiG is to click on the posters nick/name and select find more postes by that poster.

Folks can get a pretty quick impression of the posters History good or bad. ;)

leuey
09-03-2004, 10:34 PM
I never said freelancers (or even companies) bill every single day. Say you're a freelancer in the U.S. and make 50K as a modeler. Let's say you Modo allows you to increase your workload by 10% - a modest amount (maybe it's faster, maybe you can crank out better models and charge more, maybe you have new clients w/ the .ma export option, whatever...). So, would you invest an extra 1K for a ROI of 5K? A lot of people will take that risk. The next year it's already paid for - maybe a $500 upgrade. So now you've made 10K on a 1.4K investment.

Not an unrealistic situation, yes? I've definatley made more money switching from LW to Maya, while still retaining LW projects on the monetary and intellectual investment I've made with that software.

anyhooo.....

-Greg



That's a huge amount in the U.S. as well. IF you can do it day in and day out. Let's see, 200 working days a year, $900 a day = $180,000 a year.

My point was that if it was 900 Indian rupees then it would be about 20 dollars U.S.

Gwot
09-03-2004, 10:52 PM
Not to add more negativity to this thread, as I'm interested in Modo so far myself, though admittedly, also balking a little at the announced price point. Rather than argue this issue any further into the ground I'd just like to bring up a similar "new software enters an aggressive market" scenario with the recent Animanium release.

Here is a piece of software that is very good at what it was designed to do... or at least has a lot of potential to be very good. There is innovation and a lot of attention to design and function put into it, yet the initial price point was absurd compared to what the competition out there offers, and at cheaper prices even. I'll list Messiah and Motion Builder as the two main competitors as they are both dedicated animation packages as well. I'm pretty sure that animanium didn't make the big splash that it could have.

After using the demo, as well as requesting a fully functioning demo directly from Sega I got to see just what it was made of. I really liked working with it, despite its first generation glitches and shortcomings. Unfortunately I couldn't justify spending the money on the price that Sega was asking. Not because I couldn't afford it, but because I just didn't feel it was worth it. The software really offered nothing that I couldn't do in my other programs other than a nice simplistic posing and keying system. However, I would have spent the extra money if their price were a little more realistic - say, $500, rather than the initial $1500.

Something about this Modo situation feels similar. I'm interested, but not sure it will be worth it. If you have enough people making that same assessment, it's hard to sell any software I would think. I'm curious though, how many people actually own and use Animanium out there? You never see anyone posting about it here.

policarpo
09-03-2004, 11:36 PM
Gwot! get back to work...we need more cool and killer fodder for Unreal. :twisted:

Hehehe...good points mate...good points! :D

Gwot
09-03-2004, 11:46 PM
Heh, I wish Policarpo! Especially with the new unreal 3 stuff coming down the pipe! Unfortunately my company has moved on in its own direction, leaving Unreal stuff entirely in Epic's capable hands. They are cranking away on some amazing next gen eye-candy and tech by the look of things. I still get to work on cool stuff too though. ;]

mbaldwin
09-04-2004, 01:55 AM
I never said freelancers (or even companies) bill every single day. Say you're a freelancer in the U.S. and make 50K as a modeler. Let's say you Modo allows you to increase your workload by 10% - a modest amount (maybe it's faster, maybe you can crank out better models and charge more, maybe you have new clients w/ the .ma export option, whatever...). So, would you invest an extra 1K for a ROI of 5K? A lot of people will take that risk. The next year it's already paid for - maybe a $500 upgrade. So now you've made 10K on a 1.4K investment.-Greg


Not to mention the need for tax write-offs. Buy software, deduct software!

-m.

Nemoid
09-04-2004, 07:53 AM
IMO, large studios use what they feel it makes them work easier and faster, and also with more flexibility.I repeat that.

Example : let's take the case of a Maya based studio. the power and flexibility of Maya is out of discussion, especially if you have TD's and Mel scripters, the program totally changes unnder your hands , adapting to your pipeline pretty well, I think.so why it is used? because they think it makes em complete their job easily.

XSI based studio is quite the same but you find a more production oriented pre-organized app. this makes u save time in most cases.. maybe its more difficult to program your tools like in Maya. about XSI i really dunno, because i don't know it so well.But again it can give the same feeling as Maya to XSI based studios

but the real fact is that in many very large studios, there's not a pipeline composed by ONE app. There can be a lead app. However,you will find a bunch of apps, mixed together, also with some propietary tools, very often, to get the job done easier and faster.

That's why every app wich can assure some innovation in the way to work is welcome into every studios at least as a demo to try it out and decide if its presence in the pipeline is recommended or necessary.

its not a matter of what works u can do with an app. in fact a good artist could do astonishing works with Strata, Blender, Animation Master or other apps for sure its more a matter of time/money spent in doing one job

That's also why a great studio like Weta used Zbrush: they had to do tons of maquettes and produce good models easy to animate. technology innovation allowed them to build them easily with this app, and produce also displacement maps to be used on low polygon meshes giving good results with sub pixel displacenment: less rendering times, better results.

For these reasons and more , i think that an app like Modo, despite its price can be really interesting for a studio.
Another thing to consider is that it seems to be really efficient even on Macs, wich could become great machines for 3D too and be adopted more than PCs in the future.

I currently use and like to use Lw modeler, but even if there are great methods to get the job done easily, if u know how to use it,some enhancements ARE required. u could look in Lw forum here on CGTalk or in NT forums and read a bit and the right idea will come to your mind: despite being one of the best modeler, Lw modeler needs enhancements however.

Every app needs enhancements always, because no evolution means death.
the evolution have to be towards intuitive ways to accomplish the same task.

So what? maybe the basis established for Modo will bring more intuitiveness and flexibility in the future, to model well and funnier.
Maybe also i'm totally wrong,and Modo /Nexus will be a total failure.
But i have no prob with being completely wrong.

I have no fear to be wrong at all.

Rahnem
09-04-2004, 09:29 AM
Amen, Nemoid, amen :)

amygdalae
09-04-2004, 05:30 PM
IMO, large studios use what they feel it makes them work easier and faster, and also with more flexibility.I repeat that.

Example : let's take the case of a Maya based studio. the power and flexibility of Maya is out of discussion, especially if you have TD's and Mel scripters, the program totally changes unnder your hands , adapting to your pipeline pretty well, I think.so why it is used? because they think it makes em complete their job easily.

XSI based studio is quite the same but you find a more production oriented pre-organized app. this makes u save time in most cases.. maybe its more difficult to program your tools like in Maya. about XSI i really dunno, because i don't know it so well.But again it can give the same feeling as Maya to XSI based studios

but the real fact is that in many very large studios, there's not a pipeline composed by ONE app. There can be a lead app. However,you will find a bunch of apps, mixed together, also with some propietary tools, very often, to get the job done easier and faster.

That's why every app wich can assure some innovation in the way to work is welcome into every studios at least as a demo to try it out and decide if its presence in the pipeline is recommended or necessary.

its not a matter of what works u can do with an app. in fact a good artist could do astonishing works with Strata, Blender, Animation Master or other apps for sure its more a matter of time/money spent in doing one job

That's also why a great studio like Weta used Zbrush: they had to do tons of maquettes and produce good models easy to animate. technology innovation allowed them to build them easily with this app, and produce also displacement maps to be used on low polygon meshes giving good results with sub pixel displacenment: less rendering times, better results.

For these reasons and more , i think that an app like Modo, despite its price can be really interesting for a studio.
Another thing to consider is that it seems to be really efficient even on Macs, wich could become great machines for 3D too and be adopted more than PCs in the future.

I currently use and like to use Lw modeler, but even if there are great methods to get the job done easily, if u know how to use it,some enhancements ARE required. u could look in Lw forum here on CGTalk or in NT forums and read a bit and the right idea will come to your mind: despite being one of the best modeler, Lw modeler needs enhancements however.

Every app needs enhancements always, because no evolution means death.
the evolution have to be towards intuitive ways to accomplish the same task.

So what? maybe the basis established for Modo will bring more intuitiveness and flexibility in the future, to model well and funnier.
Maybe also i'm totally wrong,and Modo /Nexus will be a total failure.
But i have no prob with being completely wrong.

I have no fear to be wrong at all.
Alot of people have taken my comments very personally.

I love reading these posts about major VFX studios changing pace and picking up new software whenever they need it. Seems a little utopian to think so. The only point I was trying to raise is that you should never underestimate the power of bureacracy. There's an 'if it aint broke, dont fix it' credo as far as pipeline/tools goes at all of the places i've ever worked. That's my last post. Troll on.

Gwot
09-04-2004, 08:32 PM
I pretty much agree with most of what you've said amygdalae. I don't see how it amounts to trolling on your part. Very relevant points you raised. I don't have film studio production experience, but it seems unlikely that any new software can make a big splash in this industry these days without first experiencing some growing pains and gaining acceptance from a small but curious crowd that enjoys working with cutting edge tools. Look at Zbrush for instance.

Also, umm... welcome to Digital Extremes, and Canada I guess Rahnem. =]

Beamtracer
09-05-2004, 01:07 AM
The major studios are the most likely to switch to Modo. It has a lot of things they want. Top on the list is extensibility... being able to change the program to suit their pipelines, and being able to change the tools to suit their needs. I don't think studios will be sensitive to the price being asked for Modo.

It's the hobbyists that'll be harder to convince. Hobbyists are less interested in pipelines, and more interested in price. Then again, if the major studios start using Modo, then a lot of hobbyists will follow on for that reason alone. Hobbyists are actually essential to keep prices down, as they increase unit-sales. If you don't attract the hobbyists you have to raise prices as you won't be selling as many units.

I always like to use the example of video editing software... Apple's Final Cut Pro sells for around US$1000 compared to Avid's $100,000 editing systems. FCP retails for 1% of the price, but generates more profit than Avid's systems. It is a good example of unit-sales. Cutting the price can increase revenue for future R&D.

Luxology also has the chance to attract Mac users from other 3D apps. The reason is that some of the other apps (not mentioning names here) have not given their full support to the Mac platform. With other 3D apps, the major plug-ins are mostly there for both Mac and Windows, but many of the minor plug-ins haven't been ported to Mac.

This will all change with Luxology.

The underlying 3D "OS" that Modo is built upon makes development of cross platform apps much easier. As Brad said, 98% of the code is the same for both Mac and Windows. This means that all the plug-ins should be cross platform, as it is minimal work to achieve this. Plug-in writers should be happy that they can sell their plug-ins to both Mac and Windows users, widening their potential customer base.

Rahnem
09-05-2004, 06:59 AM
Also, umm... welcome to Digital Extremes, and Canada I guess Rahnem. =]
I'm not there quite yet, couple weeks to go yet.

If a new tool can half the time it takes to a particular task, then the package has already payed for itself. It's like comparing a builder who has a hammer and one who has a nail gun. Sure a nail gun costs more than a hammer, both can do the job equally as effective, the only difference being, one can do it in half the time. Productivity is what counts. Whether or not modo can deliver that kind of improvement, for the price it's asking, is yet to be seen.

Nemoid
09-05-2004, 07:52 AM
Agree totally!!

@Amigdalae : Maybe you're right, but i still think that at a certain point a studio try at least to find a way to accomplish its work faster. They have an established pipeline of course, but they usually search for new methods when they can. Because some time spent on this could speed their workflow and knowledge.

Example: into a studio well a friend of mine works they spent lots of time researching, with some Worley plug and G2 too, to diminish rendering times. with some good use of them they diminished rendering times in certain cases from hours to minutes.
Was this time badly spent?

We dunno if Modo will be the tool wich will be largely adopted for sure. There's not THE tool.
But in general, new solutions are welcome when they bring advantages.

end of the trolly post!!! lets stop this here guys.
Modo isn't out yet and we are discussing like it's at release 5 or 6 :D

js33
09-06-2004, 05:15 AM
end of the trolly post!!! lets stop this here guys.
Modo isn't out yet and we are discussing like it's at release 5 or 6 :D
Actually it would be closer to 8. :D

Cheers,
JS

Nemoid
09-06-2004, 11:55 AM
Yeah that! maybe you're right with that number :D

ThomasMahler
09-06-2004, 01:07 PM
Anyone here pre-ordered it yet? It should be available at the end of this month, right?

Chedri
09-06-2004, 02:00 PM
Personally, I need to know more about it before I order, either a working demo, or reviews from users not directly connected with Luxology. It may be a great modeller, but it might also be the opposite. The only thing we know is that Luxology thinks its a great modeller :)

A little more than a year ago, we had another hyped product - Animanium, when it came out, it turned out to be overpriced and not living up to the hype.

Also, so far Luxology has missed their first 2 stated deadlines, firstly that preordering via their web site would be up before the end of august, secondly that it would be up before the end of last week (barring a catastrophee). It's certainly very minor deadlines, and not worth raving too much about, but well... So far it has been the only things that they have promised, and they failed on both...

Some time they also promised a special deal from lightwave owners, now they dont know about the deal. I hope its just because their marketing team still is working on the details.

So far, I am cautiously optimistic, but I want to see something tangible before investing in it :)

CB_3D
09-06-2004, 10:35 PM
Personally, I need to know more about it before I order, either a working demo, or reviews from users not directly connected with Luxology. It may be a great modeller, but it might also be the opposite. The only thing we know is that Luxology thinks its a great modeller :)

Considering its heritage i think itīs a little more than that. Think LW Modeler with Edges and nice interface, so much we know for sure. Nuff for me...

SheepFactory
09-06-2004, 10:39 PM
Ok guys ,


I have an interview with Brad Peebler of Luxology soon , if you want your questions answered post em here and I'll ask it if its something Brad can answer. Please refrain from asking questions they cant possibly answer such as "how much will nexus cost?" etc.


Ali

FunBucket
09-06-2004, 11:04 PM
I've got one...

"How much will Nexus cost?" :thumbsup:

No, seriously... ask if there's plans for dynamics and particles. Maybe even hair, cloth, fluids, some kind of paint effects like maya...

He may not even be able to answer those, though.

Also, with the renderer, ask if they're planning on including 999 free nodes like Lightwave does. That's all I got for now...

*He probably won't be able to answer ANY of that... hmm*

Beamtracer
09-06-2004, 11:25 PM
Please refrain from asking questions they cant possibly answer such as "how much will nexus cost?" etc.Hehehe. Well, this is a variation of the cost question... Some people are talking of delaying a purchase of Modo in anticipation that there'll be a better price when the Nexus suite is introduced. I think some people think there'll be a price for the whole package that may be less than the individual units. Maybe Brad can answer those assumptions.

Question about Modo:
How will 3D objects modeled with Modo's various Edge tools go when exported to other non-edge savvy programs, such as Lightwave 3D?

Questions about Nexus "OS":
Does Luxology plan to license this cross-platform "OS" to other companies building non-3D applications?

Does Luxology anticipate an equal number of Mac plug-ins to Windows plug-ins as a result of this "OS"?

Question about renderer:
Will it integrate with Adobe After Effects? Whatever people think of After Effects, it's still the most popular compositing application out there. One of the failings of Lightwave 3D is that it doesn't integrate well with AE... no support for 16bpc (bits per channel) image file formats, and no support for exporting motion paths in After Effects' format. Will Lux's renderer be able to export a motion path to AE, like C4D and Maya already can? Will it be able to import and export various 16bpc image formats?

Question about Brad:
How does he always manage to get so much attention from Apple Computer... being highlighted at Apple Expos and appearances on stage with Steve Jobs? This is the sort of publicity other companies would die for! Could Apple be interested because Lux's cross-platform "OS" makes it easier to develop cross-platform applications?

Renderman_XSI
09-06-2004, 11:53 PM
Ok guys ,


I have an interview with Brad Peebler of Luxology soon , if you want your questions answered post em here and I'll ask it if its something Brad can answer. Please refrain from asking questions they cant possibly answer such as "how much will nexus cost?" etc.


Ali 1. Ask him if they have any future plans on adding a 2D/3D paint system into Nexus or Modo. Think photoshop inside Modo, allowing the artist to paint on 2D maps or directly on the 3D mesh(im not referring to PaintFX, or Zbrush). something like this: http://www.izware.com/mirai/paint.htm

2. Any plans on improving the UV toolset before shipping the product? I keep hearing they arent "ready", which worries me.

3. Any plans adding any skeleton features into Modo, so we can test how our mesh deforms?

lwbob
09-07-2004, 12:29 AM
Does Luxology anticipate an equal number of Mac plug-ins to Windows plug-ins as a result of this "OS"? I would guess that they would be the same as any cross platform plugins. The developer would need to compile for each. The only way LW does the multiplatform lscripts is that they are just that, scripts.

Any plans adding any skeleton features into Modo, so we can test how our mesh deforms? It wouldn't be that accurate since each app that you export to would deform differently. I understand why you want it though. Consider messiah's bones. They don't need monster weighting like Maya does. How do you decide which method to use in a modeler?
:)

leuey
09-07-2004, 12:29 AM
Not to change the subject, Beamtracer - but you should be able to render to SGI 48bit and SGI 64bit file formats out of LW for your 16bpc support. That's what I typically (esp. for depth maps) outa LW for comping in AE.

There's some other plug-in file formats as well that are 16bpc

best,

Greg


...One of the failings of Lightwave 3D is that it doesn't integrate well with AE... no support for 16bpc (bits per channel) image file formats, and no support for exporting motion paths in After Effects' format.

private
09-07-2004, 12:36 AM
1. What is the upgrade/payment path? Similar to Lightwave or are point releases going to cost people money? How much for a student/educational licence? If these answers are not known now, how much longer after the release?

2. How good is the documentation going to be when the product ships?

3. Is there an issue with UV mapping on subD objects and stretching/distortion? Has this issue been corrected compared to Lightwave's current situation, for example?

4. Will normal mapping features be available without leaving Modo/Nexus without having to use programs like Zbrush 2?

5. When will more videos be shown on the www.luxology.com (http://www.luxology.com) site?

6. Is Worley supporting their products? Is Joe Alter supporting their products, meaning will a FPrime or Hair solution be a part of the Nexus package or will they rely on outside sources?

7. How are the gridsnapping/snapping features improved compared to Lightwave, for example.

8. Are there any issues using Modo with Dual Monitors?

9. Is there a virtual symmetry similar to Wings3D?

10. Can we model in the camera view?

11. Is the SubD implementation hierarchial (adaptive) where you can refine just a certain area, like Maya for example?

12. Is it possible to work with the UV mode using symmetry?

13. Currently, is there a bridge type tool and/or a HD pumpit type tool in Modo?

14. Can we model an object in one viewport in the nonSubD mode while in another viewport have the model subD'ed and constantly switch back and forth to create and edit?

15. Is there a better method to customizing the interface colours than tweaking numbers in a config file and seeing the update? Is there something built in where the user can change the colour of the interface interactively?

More when I think of them. Thanks Mr. Sheep.

Chaz
09-07-2004, 01:43 AM
I'd like to have an idea of what the anticipated pricing structure for their product line is going to be...I'd have an easier time deciding to buy Modo if I had a clue as to what other modules are going to be offered and at what approximate price point.

vuedesprit
09-07-2004, 03:39 AM
if i'll meet Brad, i would ask him these questions:
1-will the final product (nexus) b fully integrated, so that they r modules in one interface?
2-can we benefit from modeler tools in animation, is all modeling tools r animated as well as they r interactive?
3-in the final product (Nexus), can we model in the studio layout, so we can model and add light, then add camera, switch the view to camera mode, and continue modeling, change light setting, continue modeling, then do a test render?
4-will it support the architectural work, so can we import a proper dxf, or maybe dwg.
5-will it have a good snapping, like cad or max have (midpoint, center, end...)
6-will ther b a good measuring tools, so we can measure from point to point interactively, like what c4d 9 have?
7-will the renderer have a photon map and color blending settings
8-is there any support for photometric and IES lighting system?
9-i heared that the renderer is like fprime but on steroid and much better, my question for this is: "is there a refinement like in fprime?", so we have to wait ages to c the image without noise, and we can't reach this ever :(
10-i c the very good point and innovation in MODO, and the section that i like it so much is the command and tool pipe, i want to know is there a stack like , so we can attach a box to extrude+bend, maybe later we can access it and just turn the bend off, or replace it with twist?
11-my important question for stack like max? said i built a box with 1,1,1 segments, and then i remembere that i want to bend it, so the segments should be greater, can i edit the box settings after drop the box tool, so i can make it 16,16,16? so can we edit any command or drawing tool after droping it?
12-if i did any rail modeling (bevel, extrude, clone...), can i edit the final result on the fly, by editing the points of the rail, so i stretch the rail, the beveled object will folow it interactively?
13-is nexus is planed to be a full 3d application to be implemented in the big studios, like maya or XSI, so will NEXUS include all what the 3d application need for special FX:particles, hair, cloth, dynamics, auto riging, walk designer, maybe liquid and paintfx as maya, just asking, not dreaming, cause i know and trust the luxology's team.
that's what i have for now, and i want to say that it's really great to c the old lightwave team developping the most wanted applicaton we lightwavers ever dreamed, i believe that i have to follow the developpers not the soft or the company, cause the developpers can always do a better innovation, but what can the soft do alone :)
and i will not b surprised or shocked if i didn't get everything in the first release of modo or first release of nexus, cause i believe that others need at least 3 or 4 upgrades to reach this first release, so what can expect of it after a while?
LUX i believe :)

Renderman_XSI
09-07-2004, 03:57 AM
It wouldn't be that accurate since each app that you export to would deform differently. I understand why you want it though. Consider messiah's bones. They don't need monster weighting like Maya does. How do you decide which method to use in a modeler?

:) You have a good point, I have never used Messiah, but if they are anything like how Mirai handles its skeleton and deformation(no need for INSANE weighting), I would say implement by PMG/Mirai standards , but thats just me..or they can provide multiple ways of deformation base on different target source/app, thru a menu if this is possible. Somewhat like how you can pick between different SubD math, Catmull Clark or Subpatch mode?




10. Can we model in the camera view?

this has already been answer, the answer is YES. but can we switch to a orthographic view when, switching to left,right,top,bottom,etc views? this is important when working with any single viewport ..let alone the camera view. the camera should return back to a perspective view once you orbit around your model. those 2 options are from Mirai, but IMO they are needed inorder to work fast in a single viewport.




11. Is the SubD implementation hierarchial (adaptive) where you can refine just a certain area, like Maya for example?

The answer is probably NO! but why would you want Maya style SubD implementation?,IMO they are the worse subD implementation in the CG industry.

Rahnem
09-07-2004, 06:18 AM
Does it have a knife tool and any polygon reduction tools?

Will we be able to work with sub division surfaces and export back to a lightwave sub patch with little to no effect on mesh topology?

mdabrov
09-07-2004, 07:04 AM
q to bp

1. support for lighting system that is photometricaly correct and calibrated to real life values

2. IES

3. objects that automaticaly are kept on floor or ground (trees, people, cars)

4. PSD support

5. Lense system (DOF, distorsion, bokeh)

6. Radiosity baking

SheepFactory
09-07-2004, 08:01 AM
Does it have a knife tool and

yes it does have it. You can see it at the modo videos at the website.

BinarySoup
09-07-2004, 08:23 AM
thanks a bunch sheep factory, for conducting another interview, less speculation and more facts is sorely welcome at this point, as for questions:

it has earlier been stated that just about every part of modo/nexus can be substituted with 3rd party code, however could brad perhaps give an example as to how much control you have over the existing functionality through scripts/plugins, can I for instance control the number of subdivisions in subd mode? given that these are ex. lightwave programmers I'm sort of hoping for lscript on steroids, any light that can be shed on this would be greatly appreciated.

also, is spline patching available in modo? i remember a screenshot with some spline button, but that may have been for making paths for extruding, if it is available, has it been enhanced in any way (compared to lightwave)? I remember a preview of a lw plugin called PatchIt a while back (whatever happened to it?) which showed interesting progress in this area.

peace and goodwill all!

Renderman_XSI
09-07-2004, 10:26 AM
yes it does have it. You can see it at the modo videos at the website. If you mean the Poly Slice tool in the tool pipe video.

1. Can you snap to 2-4 vertex to create a custom cutting plane?

2. Does it have numeric input for precise cutting?

3. Any options for incremental slicing? i.e. slicing into 4 equal incremental unit base on the main slicing point/plane.

4. Any options to seperate the mesh into 2 seperate objects after slicing?

On a different note, i do have another question.

5. Does the boolean operation in Modo, tesselate the mesh into triangles or does it keep it clean? The latter is PERFERED.

6. Does Modo have real world units: mm, inches,feets? This would be great for technical modeling.

7. Well there be a Mirai style navigation option in the future? If not can you create your own?

8. Well there be a dotxsi export option in the future?

9. Are there any interactive alignment tools?

Sil3
09-07-2004, 10:29 AM
When is the demo out? soon or in 5 years from now? Will it be limited to 300-400 points to like LW demo?

Steve McRae
09-07-2004, 11:32 AM
Does anyone know if modo can do booleans or stenciling? This feature is very important to me.

vuedesprit
09-07-2004, 12:37 PM
well my questions r not about a innovation in 3d, or features that r new, i just hope that modo and nexus will have at least what most of other products already have, so let's ask:
1-is it possible that it support RPC libraries
2-is there a spline modeling, and spline tools, like a real bezier, and do we have a editable bezier, so after drop it , we can edit the tangants?
3-is there a free form knife?like drawing the knife on the face , or is it only a planar slicing?
4-can we use spline to make a motion patch?without the need to switch btw modules, so we can draw the spline in the same module that will have the camera animated?

DMack
09-07-2004, 12:37 PM
One simple question I'd like to ask Brad, Will the rendering app have unlimited free distributed rendering like LW? - An absolute make or break point for many small studio's I reckon.

ThomasMahler
09-07-2004, 06:21 PM
Some questions for Brad:

1) When can we expect the Demo version?

2) How configurable is Modo? Are the mouse/keyboard buttons completely remappable?

3) Silos Topology Brush made a lot of sound lately... Is there something similar in Modo? Maybe (at least ;)) some kind of skin wrap deformer? You know, especially for games, it'd be great if Modo would feature some cool tools to quickly create lowPoly Verisons of your highPoly models!

4) I'd love to hear some details about Modos scripting language. How extensible is Modo? Is Modos script language comparable to MEL?

5) Are bones like in Mirai/PMG planned for future releases? It'd be great to model characters inside Modo, rig them up, create blendShapes, etc. and still beeing able to export all of that to a Maya file.

6) Of course, any little news tid-bit about Nexus would be nice. What can we expect? What is luxology up to with Nexus?

That'd be all for now! :)

Goon
09-07-2004, 06:39 PM
A few more for brad i guess,
1) How many polygons can the modo engine handle, ie will it be expandable to something like zbrush?

2) Is there a virtual mirror of comparable quality to wings3d?

3) What will the upgrade scheme be?

ChristianFischer
09-07-2004, 07:40 PM
will modo be delivered with a dongle so i can install it on multiple computers and run it by just pluggin the dongle in? or will there be some kind of zbrush registration process ? :rolleyes:
will i be able to resell modo or is there some kind of restriction like with max or maya?
is there a symmetry mode line in lightwave so i can model without a centerline?
does modo have a history where i can modify e.g. an extrude operator which i applied earlier in the modeling process?
can i modify the spline used for an "extrude along a spline"-operation afterwards?
and finally the most important question: when will modo ship?
ps: i'm really pi**ed off by the lack of information luxology gives to the users.
first i was really hyped but that hype is turning more and more into anger.
missing the first deadline for the preorder-process was bad ... but missing the second one without even saying a word about the reasons really s*cks!!
please give more attention to the users ... i understand that you maybe do not unveil all of your features because of the competitors but saying whether or not you give a special discount to lightwave users or keeping us updated why those delays occur don't give the competitors any advantages.
sorry but i had to get this off my chest :shrug:

regards chris

Beamtracer
09-07-2004, 10:31 PM
...but saying whether or not you give a special discount to lightwave usersChrischan, Brad Peebler already said there will be a discount for LW users.

Does Luxology anticipate an equal number of Mac plug-ins to Windows plug-ins as a result of this "OS"?

I would guess that they would be the same as any cross platform plugins. The developer would need to compile for each. The only way LW does the multiplatform lscripts is that they are just that, scripts.You're right when you say that Lightwave Lscripts are cross-platform, and to go beyond that they must write specific code for each individual platform (ie Mac OSX / Windows).

However, I understand that this may be different with Luxology. The Nexus OS may facilitate the easier development of cross-platform plug-ins. Developers could write for the Nexus OS, rather than the individual platforms. This would give Mac OS X users access to many more plug-ins than with other 3D apps.

Regarding 16bpc image files... Lightwave often fails when 16bpc images are used as background and image maps. Also, there's no inbuilt way to get complex camera motion paths from Lightwave to After Effects. I hope Luxology can sort out integration with After Effects.

jlinhart
09-07-2004, 10:58 PM
missing the first deadline for the preorder-process was bad ... but missing the second one without even saying a word about the reasons really s*cks!!
regards chris
Wow, I'm not sure how to react to this one. Let me get this straight, You are mad because we haven't taken your money yet? :)

We were pushing to start the pre-order process last week but like most things in a typical business there were unforseen delays. Once pre-ordering starts we will announce it in this thread on cgtalk, and once we start shipping modo we'll also let everyone know.

.jason
www.luxology.com

Beamtracer
09-08-2004, 01:05 AM
[list]
will modo be delivered with a dongle so i can install it on multiple computersThe downside of a dongle is that it can't be downloaded. In your case (coming from Germany) you would get Modo cheaper if it can be downloaded directly from Luxology, bypassing local distributors and their fees. I don't know about Germany, but in some countries there are big customs/import fees, around the $200 mark, just to inspect packages. This is regardless of import tax, and it adds greatly to the cost of buying software from another country.

All this assumes that Luxology will allow international customers to purchase via download, and not just limit it to within the United States.


missing the first deadline for the preorder-process was bad You are mad because we haven't taken your money yet? :)Hehehe! That's funny. Yes, all a pre-order does is takes your money. Actually, it makes you wonder what the value of a pre-order is, unless it came at a lower price.

jedi71
09-08-2004, 03:00 AM
All this assumes that Luxology will allow international customers to purchase via download, and not just limit it to within the United States.Hi guys, :)

Sorry I didn't post this earlier, was having pc problems.

This is from an e-mail reply I got from Luxology a while back :-
I'm an international customer btw.

Hello again,

Shipping options and prices will be available on the site. Also, when released you will be able to download the program immediately.

Best,
-The Luxology Sales Team

ChristianFischer
09-08-2004, 05:40 AM
Chrischan, Brad Peebler already said there will be a discount for LW users.
ah, ok ... i didn't know it was official :)

Wow, I'm not sure how to react to this one. Let me get this straight, You are mad because we haven't taken your money yet? :)
almost ;)

there is a lightwave licence registered to my name ... but the new customer wants (and i think yesterday did) register it to his name.

so i am unable to make use of the lw special price ... thats the reason why i wanted this preorder process to start.

anyway .. i hope you start selling (and shipping :P) it soon ... can't wait :)

Para
09-08-2004, 11:19 AM
We were pushing to start the pre-order process last week but like most things in a typical business there were unforseen delays. Once pre-ordering starts we will announce it in this thread on cgtalk, and once we start shipping modo we'll also let everyone know.

.jason
www.luxology.com

Just be sure that you don't "do the VALVe" and get into the near-infinite loop of release dates like VALVe with Half-Life 2. Pick a day, stick to it. No matter what.

lwbob
09-08-2004, 03:28 PM
ps: i'm really pi**ed off by the lack of information luxology gives to the users.

Yeah that sucks demand your money back and return your copy.
:)<--- Smiley.

tayse
09-08-2004, 07:06 PM
I already loved the program and already hated the company (policy)...as programmers they did a great job and they will continue i think... as a company....piffftttt, do not even wanna talk about it...

Goon
09-08-2004, 07:17 PM
calm down then. Many companies have trouble getting of the ground. PMG had many rocky years during which many users bitched and jumped ship. Hash is at v11 and finally seems to have conquered its instability and poor PR. Izware updates their website every 2-3 years, and hasn't returned emails for a long while.

Luxology has a lot to do in order to roll out their product. And as much as you, a potential customer, might want them to dote on you, that simply is not their priority. They have impressed the audience with their software, they have created a fan following, and as businessmen, all they really need to do is make sure that the anticipation is sustained until they finally release their product. If they can do this by releasing occasional tidbits and videos, so much the better. They'll have more time for developement, and less time wasted on PR.

Plus, no matter how much you hear about the software and drool over its features, until it is actually released for use, and you have an opportunity to demo it, none of what you have heard matters, in regards to anything but your curiousity.

Nemoid
09-08-2004, 07:49 PM
So far it's impossible and unfair to judge so negatively Luxology behaviour and PR and critique their ability to sell their products.
jeez, the app isn't out yet and seems like people want to really find problems even if they're not there.

Actually, I think that starting a new company is not an easy task even for great programmers.So lets give this company a good encouragement. :)

I appreciate the Lux work so far. they also showed some good videos and made demo presentations of their product.giving also some good and promising hints about Nexus .

So far, seems that Modo is a great app indeed, so let's wait patiently until it ships and we'll be able to judge it properly.

Pervis
09-08-2004, 08:06 PM
From what I have seen, Modo looks promising and I look forward to a demo.

It isn't a good start for any company when dates are announced and not met. I know, my company develops software, some of which was delivered very late. What concerns me the most is that nobody has even taken the time to update the one and only date on their website to reflect these delays.

Not slamming Lux's methods or PR, just makes people a little weary when spending money, even if they haven't spent it yet :).

vuedesprit
09-08-2004, 08:56 PM
originally by nemoid:
So far it's impossible and unfair to judge so negatively Luxology behaviour and PR and critique their ability to sell their products.
jeez, the app isn't out yet and seems like people want to really find problems even if they're not there.

Actually, I think that starting a new company is not an easy task even for great programmers.So lets give this company a good encouragement. :)

I appreciate the Lux work so far. they also showed some good videos and made demo presentations of their product.giving also some good and promising hints about Nexus .

So far, seems that Modo is a great app indeed, so let's wait patiently until it ships and we'll be able to judge it properly.

i can't but agrre with u m8, pplz u r stating complainig for a non released app yet, and it's the first show for a very good and promising appl, so it's so normal that u expect delays or problems, finally luxology is a company that have to manage a lot of things now, and i think that they successed with their mission, wich is to make all appl worry them, and let users expect their release.
now let's just review some other comapnies delays, let's remember the update of LW[8], and if u ever heared about hurleyworks.com, the product called patch it, it was annouced since 2 years, and since a 3 months it's annouced again as an updated work in progress and sooner release, and till now there is nothing, and this is what, this is a plugin, ohhhh
and look to nodalideas and the annouced visual textures it should be out in this summer, what summer, it's now raining here, and still visual textures on the beach ;)
the same goes for VODKA from unit tuff, it must b out in Q2 2004, and nothing till now, what i want to say pplz that delays is normal, and u have nothing on companies if they delayed their release, but in fact u have to thanks them that they showed u something as a demo b4 they put their products on the shelves, specially that they didn't taked ur money yet, wich wasn't the way newtek did with the LW[8], when they delayed their users 1 year after they payed for this upgrade.

nuclearfessel
09-08-2004, 09:47 PM
From what I have seen, Modo looks promising and I look forward to a demo.

It isn't a good start for any company when dates are announced and not met. I know, my company develops software, some of which was delivered very late. What concerns me the most is that nobody has even taken the time to update the one and only date on their website to reflect these delays.

Not slamming Lux's methods or PR, just makes people a little weary when spending money, even if they haven't spent it yet :).
when did Lux announce dates? i haven't seen any dates announced for Modo's release.

Pervis
09-08-2004, 09:56 PM
From their site: We will begin taking pre-orders through this site before the end of August.

Sorry, didn't mean delivery date.

policarpo
09-08-2004, 10:04 PM
Please everyone...move on...

Go and make something beautiful....

It is what it is and it will be out when it's out....

NOW GO...GO AND CREATE ART WITH THE TOOLS YOU HAVE!!! :applause:

lwbob
09-08-2004, 11:14 PM
Edit: Don't want to hurt policarpo's feelings

policarpo
09-08-2004, 11:17 PM
Umm...Bob...you need to chill dude...really.

I have been reading the thread and participating apporpiately and intelligently when it was proper. I just felt it was getting a little whacko and bitter, so I felt it was appropriate to toss in my standard tag line when threads get like this.

If you have a problem with it, feel free to let Sheep Factory or the other mods know...but dude seriously, you have little wiggle room to talk. :twisted:

SheepFactory
09-08-2004, 11:20 PM
guys if you keep arguing I am going to close this thread. Lets keep the discussion civil. just hang in there the interview is soon anyway.

policarpo
09-08-2004, 11:24 PM
guys if you keep arguing I am going to close this thread. Lets keep the discussion civil. just hang in there the interview is soon anyway.

Awesome Sheep.

Thanks for the info on the interview.

I know Lux has been working like gangbusters to get the site up, and the app out...so I think those early adopters will be most appreciative once more info is relased and they can actually play with their new toy.

I for one plan on sitting it out until nexus rolls around. I just hope they get it fully working and animating by Sig '05...cause that will definitely cause a bit of a sensation...but they shouldn't have let the cat our of the bag in my opinion, cause their competition have access to the same White Papers they have (unless Nexus as a rendering solution is truly unique and proprietary).

Cheers. :thumbsup:

tayse
09-08-2004, 11:59 PM
Just in case anyone think that I was too tough on the company...what i was trying to say is...


Yes, they made a very very user friendly application and thank you for this, congs. lux guys, but I just wish that they were as user friendly as the program. I like what they did, but do not like what they are doing now as keeping their silence...after such a big hype...

No offense... Peace

Renderman_XSI
09-09-2004, 01:21 AM
guys if you keep arguing I am going to close this thread. Lets keep the discussion civil. just hang in there the interview is soon anyway.
Any chance in letting us know what questions your going to ask Brad? One last question, for your interview with Brad:

Is Luxology, interested in joining Sony's COLLADA program?

https://collada.org/public_forum/welcome.php

kidcodea
09-09-2004, 01:39 AM
I just wish that they were as user friendly as the program
unless your used to daily geisha treatment, softwarewise, i've always been well treated and got replys back thruout the years.
Ceo's replying consumers? and you bitch and whine?
man they even touring with modo presentations.
the feedback you get now its the appropriate to the stage of the app imho
besides footmassages i dunno whats missing really. seems you guys have nothing else to bitch upon i guess. what a great complement that is to the actual app.

moovieboy
09-09-2004, 02:11 AM
...but they shouldn't have let the cat [out] of the bag in my opinion, cause their competition have access to the same White Papers they have (unless Nexus as a rendering solution is truly unique and proprietary)...

I dunno, Poli... I think Luxology is dealing with an intense balancing act regarding its whole suite package. Some people seemed reluctant to look into or purchase a modeler without it having a rendering component, let alone an animation system, so perhaps Luxology had to play their hand a little bit to resolve concerns.

But, you're right that the competition can start sniffin' around well before Lux gets to the starting gate with Nexus. 3D is one tough-as-nails arena to get into, especially if your company hopes to bring it to the next level. There's a lot of "damned if ya do, damned if ya don't" choices based on the wide range of responses we've seen here :)

-Tom

policarpo
09-09-2004, 02:58 AM
Well ya know what they say...competition is the law of the jungle in a capitalist society.

So I say let the developers do what they do to answer our needs and we will give them our hard earned devotion!! :twisted:

Unless every developer subscribes to the premise of Atlas Shrugged in the next five years, I think we artists will be the benefactors of their great vision!

jedi71
09-09-2004, 03:12 AM
Hello Sheep Factory,

Here are my questions for Brad:-

- I assume that there will be an upgrade path for modo owners to Nexus but clarification/elaboration on this would be nice, such as since Nexus will include modo, I'm hoping Luxology will offer modo owners a good deal on upgrading to Nexus (at least offset the retail 895 price of modo). By this, I'm also assuming that modo/Nexus is modular and by upgrading to Nexus we'll just be adding animation and rendering on top of modo. I'd prefer not to mention other companies, But something like what pmG does with messiah:animate and messiah:studio would be nice, where comparatively modo 1.0 users would be able to upgrade to Nexus, at a good price, and to modo 1.x/2 whatever and Nexus 1.0??

- What is Luxology's definition of a 3D OS? What do they mean by this? I am confused as to what possibilities this could mean.

- Any plans to include real-time shaders and/or normal maps into modo/Nexus, for the gaming industry?

- Any plans to develop a 64-bit version of Nexus, whereby something like rendering would benefit?

- We all know Nexus's real-time interactive renderer is very very fast but how is it's quality, compared maybe as to FPrime? Is it meant only for preview quality or is it a bit like FPrime where you can choose to do a final render with refinement?
Does it preview All the Nexus's features(main rendered) or are there limitations like for eg with Fprime and volumetrics?
Is the RT renderer GPU-accelerated, whereas folks with more powerful graphic cards would get faster performance?


Thanks a lot, I think that's more than enough from just little ole me. :)

Griffon
09-09-2004, 08:04 AM
I can't speak for Brad, but I don't think answers to detailed or specific questions about products beyond modo are likely to be answered with real satisfaction. It's generally a bad idea to start quoting features or policy or dates so far in advance.

Nemoid
09-09-2004, 08:11 AM
I dunno, Poli... I think Luxology is dealing with an intense balancing act regarding its whole suite package. Some people seemed reluctant to look into or purchase a modeler without it having a rendering component, let alone an animation system, so perhaps Luxology had to play their hand a little bit to resolve concerns.

But, you're right that the competition can start sniffin' around well before Lux gets to the starting gate with Nexus. 3D is one tough-as-nails arena to get into, especially if your company hopes to bring it to the next level. There's a lot of "damned if ya do, damned if ya don't" choices based on the wide range of responses we've seen here :)

-Tom
the fact is , most people are interested in new technologies that bring advantages in their workflow. Till now, Modo is a really interesting product, but since there are other solutions like Silo, Wings 3D and the modelling tools in major apps, most people are indeed confused by a product wich seems to be "only" a modeler.
so : why buying such a product?

So far we know that a good Modo characteristic is its underlying structure and code. it really seems to be very opened and this is very good for future implementations : tools, plugs , etc.this is very important because will allow the app to grow and grow well, just into a similar way that happens with a software like XSI, where every release is a -boom- Modo toolset comes from the experience of the programmers on Lw modeler, wich is indeed one of the best in the market - yes even without edges and ngons- so IMO the lw inherited workflow + other good tools and features will meke a great difference and could grow really well as a good modelling app that will be a good companion in mixed pipelines at its start.

then Lux was also working on something related to animation and rendering.And from the little we know , with a clever structure, like a sort of OS too. They did well to offer us some little infos about that, because really much can be done to make animation confortable and fun and rendering powerful. those users interested more into animation and rendering now know that such a module is in the works and have some hints of what will be offered.

This seems to me a good project and strategy.

FunBucket
09-09-2004, 09:16 AM
Anywho, not sure if anyone's seen this yet or not...

http://macusersforum.com/index.php?showtopic=1280&st=0&p=5535&#entry5535

If you scroll down you'll see an image that was supposedly made with Luxology software. The copyright shows 2002 though, so maybe you've seen it already... oh well!

ThomasMahler
09-09-2004, 09:17 AM
This seems to me a good project and strategy.

50.000 Views, close to 700 replies - Yeah, it seems people are really interested in Modo :)

Maybe Lux had to delay the whole thing because they didn't intend to release a demo as soon as Modo is available and now, because of the enormous responds, they do?

But that's just speculation, hehe.

I'm for sure very, very interested in Modo - It's a little pricey, but we don't know Modos exact features, we don't know what Modo is really capable of. If there are more things like the unbelievable morph system, Modo will be worth every single cent.

So let's just sit and wait. Tea anyone? ;)

Meshbuilder
09-09-2004, 09:26 AM
Anywho, not sure if anyone's seen this yet or not...

http://macusersforum.com/index.php?showtopic=1280&st=0&p=5535&#entry5535

If you scroll down you'll see an image that was supposedly made with Luxology software. The copyright shows 2002 though, so maybe you've seen it already... oh well!I made this image and I did not use any software other than LightWave 3D and Photoshop.

FunBucket
09-09-2004, 09:28 AM
Well then never mind, lol. Good job regardless!

zen jehad
09-09-2004, 10:10 AM
Will there be future support for exporting models and data (UV, etc) to XSI beyond the usual formats such as .obj? I see there is maya support just now, as well as .lwo, but it'd be cool to have modo use dotxsi for more stronger support in that area.

cheers.

private
09-09-2004, 01:08 PM
I'm for sure very, very interested in Modo - It's a little pricey, but we don't know Modos exact features, we don't know what Modo is really capable of. If there are more things like the unbelievable morph system, Modo will be worth every single cent.

From what I've seen in the videos, it looks exactly like Lightwave's current Endomorph system...and it's available now.

That said, I'm interested in modo.

ThomasMahler
09-09-2004, 01:31 PM
From what I've seen in the videos, it looks exactly like Lightwave's current Endomorph system...and it's available now.


Really? Lightwave allows you to "embed" Morphs into your models, change the geometry and everything will still work? So its possible with LW to create your morphs for your model at lowDetail stage and they'll still work after detailing? (Guess that's also how Mirai dealt with Morphs, right?)

That'd be great. I really miss something like that in Maya. If you've a few blendShapes created and change the geometry on your baseMesh you'd have to do the whole process again.

yog
09-09-2004, 01:45 PM
Really? Lightwave allows you to "embed" Morphs into your models, change the geometry and everything will still work? So its possible with LW to create your morphs for your model at lowDetail stage and they'll still work after detailing? (Guess that's also how Mirai dealt with Morphs, right?)Yep it's one of the few really good things in LW.
You can even make the morphs for a full body character, and then at a later date detach say just the head, attach it to another body and the facial morphs you originally made on the first model still work :thumbsup:

Renderman_XSI
09-09-2004, 02:39 PM
Will there be future support for exporting models and data (UV, etc) to XSI beyond the usual formats such as .obj? I see there is maya support just now, as well as .lwo, but it'd be cool to have modo use dotxsi for more stronger support in that area.

cheers. You can do alway with all of those .obj,.dotxsi,etc If the folk at Luxology would add support for collada 1.0 specs. Lux, wants to play well with other?, well it seem collada is supported by Alias,Discreet, and Softimage.

there need to be standards in this industry, collada might be just the answer.

lwbob
09-09-2004, 02:51 PM
Really? Lightwave allows you to "embed" Morphs into your models, change the geometry and everything will still work? So its possible with LW to create your morphs for your model at lowDetail stage and they'll still work after detailing? (Guess that's also how Mirai dealt with Morphs, right?)

That'd be great. I really miss something like that in Maya. If you've a few blendShapes created and change the geometry on your baseMesh you'd have to do the whole process again.
That was one of the things they pointed out. You could use the endomorph-like method and the export them to Maya blendshapes.

ThomasMahler
09-09-2004, 03:17 PM
That was one of the things they pointed out. You could use the endomorph-like method and the export them to Maya blendshapes.

Yeah, but I always thought that was exclusive to Modo - I thought that'd be a new feature. Well, nevertheless, I'm happy it's in there! :)

lwbob
09-09-2004, 03:31 PM
I thought they could also bring in blendshapes and that would turn them into these embedded morphs, I could be wrong though. That would be exclusive to Modo/not in LW.

Nemoid
09-09-2004, 04:29 PM
yep, in Lw u can actually embed endomorphs in your object, and update the base mesh, and the morphs are updated as well. as i said , Lw modeler is good.:)

The limit of lw endomorphs currently, is that they're not additive. so, for example, to close an eyelid (curved path)you have to do different endomorphs with different sliders for different stages of the eyelid curved morph, just because you can move points only into a linear fashion and u can't add the different stages into one endomorph.
however, there are scripts as well as workarounds to accomplish this task.

I hope Modo's morphs work even better than Lw's though.some endo's on steroids! :)

also : too bad you loose endomorphs when u export in.obj from Lw. maybe Modo can work better in this field

policarpo
09-09-2004, 05:57 PM
yep, in Lw u can actually embed endomorphs in your object, and update the base mesh, and the morphs are updated as well. as i said , Lw modeler is good.:)

The limit of lw endomorphs currently, is that they're not additive. so, for example, to close an eyelid (curved path)you have to do different endomorphs with different sliders for different stages of the eyelid curved morph, just because you can move points only into a linear fashion and u can't add the different stages into one endomorph.
however, there are scripts as well as workarounds to accomplish this task.

I hope Modo's morphs work even better than Lw's though.some endo's on steroids! :)

also : too bad you loose endomorphs when u export in.obj from Lw. maybe Modo can work better in this field

Nemoid, for what it is worth, I believe that .FBX supports LW Endomorphs using Motion Builder as an exchange environment...but I agree with you Endormorphs are the best implemenation of Morphs I have used...

zen jehad
09-09-2004, 09:13 PM
You can do alway with all of those .obj,.dotxsi,etc If the folk at Luxology would add support for collada 1.0 specs. Lux, wants to play well with other?, well it seem collada is supported by Alias,Discreet, and Softimage.

there need to be standards in this industry, collada might be just the answer.


Now that would be good. I checked out there website and saw the companies you mentioned above as partners. I wonder how, and when they will implement the collada idea.

I guess it takes a few brave companies to get things going, but looks good so far.

f97ao
09-09-2004, 09:44 PM
I for one think it makes perfect sense to make a program that only focuses on modeling. Myself I think that there is much, much to be done about the modeling tools in programs today, granted I mostly have experience with 3dsmax, Rhino and Zbrush (which is impressive), Nendo (but I at least checked Maya videos and XSI videos to get a feel for how the work).

The ability to handle big scenes and complex objects seem to be a great problem for many programs. I mean, just to model a few really complex trees can make your hardware beg and if you animate them it's even trickier.

Many of the current applications are doing so many things so they cannot possibly focus on having optimized software for modeling. In max this is very evident, when you are modeling since it easily get slow. On the other hand it's very fast at displaying large scenes in the viewport as long as you don't model them. From what I've tried this seem to be a common problem in other applications as well.

Also, myself I really, really do miss more painting tools not only textures but painting geometry. This is also extremely heavy for the software, and also hard to implement interface-wise. Zbrush has some great features here, but it's still a little hard to fit it into my workflow at least.

My point here is that modeling has a long way to go and modeling tools are extremely complex and most of the big applications have been lacking in several areas IMHO. If a bunch of very talented guys get together to work 100% only on modeling then I think they will far surpass most applications modeling flow. It's quite possible that we will see something similar as to the render engines. That modeling will be done in dedicated programs, then one throw it back into the general program (3dsmax, maya etc) and fit everything together. It must be near impossible for the big houses to compete with software that only work with modeling, after all they do animation, particles, cameras, rendering, materials and well lots of other things. Myself I have been somewhat surprised that we haven't seen more really strong modeling tools out there, however with Modo and Silo this seem to finally change.

/Andreas

ThomasMahler
09-09-2004, 10:17 PM
Well said, Andreas!

I also think that it's pretty cool having a modeler as a seperate app - I just don't want to see a gazillion buttons, menus and icons on screen that have absolutely nothing to do with my current model. There's always a mammoth working in the background and performance-wise Silo, for example, runs a LOT faster than Maya, at least on my machine here.

But I also like the fact that "Displacement Sculpting" happens in ZBrush, also a seperate application. I personally really like that, I feel a lot more organized that way. It's like working in Layers: Blocking out, forming and optimizing (Edge Loops, etc.) your geometry in whatever modeler you like, detailing in ZBrush and bringing back your model + Displacement/Normal Maps to your Animation package of choice.

And, yeah, I also think that todays modelers could still be a lot better. I mean, they advanced a lot during the years, but sculpting still feels too technical nowadays (Oh, heres a thread I came up with a few days ago, it's about exactly that topic: http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=167213).

ZBrush is great, but I'd love to see new ideas, features about refining topology. Silos Topology Brush is a step into the right direction. I really hope that Modo has some cool topology tools to offer - It's such a hassle creating a highPoly character for normalMaps and also creating a lowPoly character as a Stand In. Some cool topology tools could be a godsend!

Also, heres a very interesting link about topology issues: http://206.145.80.239/zbc/showthread.php?t=020761

Sorry for beeing a little Off Topic, but I think that Topology is a big issue and new programs like Modo should try to resolve that. Someone here already wrote that Modo features some kind of Topology Brush. I'm still a little sceptical about that, but that'd be great, really, really great.

I don't want to think about a dozen things while sculpting/modeling anymore. Wouldn't it be great if 3d would feel a lot more like drawing? Just bring your ideas on screen, without thinking about all that techical stuff... Ahhh, I'd love that.

f97ao
09-09-2004, 10:37 PM
Well said, Andreas!

I don't want to think about a dozen things while sculpting/modeling anymore. Wouldn't it be great if 3d would feel a lot more like drawing? Just bring your ideas on screen, without thinking about all that techical stuff... Ahhh, I'd love that.
Thanks. :)
Yes I completely agree with you that 3d is too technical, at least it's for me, and I'm no stranger to techniques as I myself research in mathematical physics and program 3d tools myself. I think I can illustrate the feeling somewhat with:

Me ||||| lots of compelex techniques and limitation ||||| art

What I'm trying to say is there is quite a big wall between me and the art I want to create. This is changing for the better, these days we can after all have textures in viewport and spin fairly big models around and at least pretend that they are built from clay. Myself I have actually stopped doing graphics in 3d programs after spending several thousands of hours working with them. I simply don't think the software and hardware is really mature for me to have fun working with it.

Luckily I just came back and realized that I enjoy actually creating the tools more than actually using them. I hope to bring a serious punch into the modeling speed of 3dsmax, hopefully letting the artist get one step closer to the art he/she wants to do.

I will look into those topology threads you mentioned. :)

/Andreas

policarpo
09-11-2004, 07:25 AM
Thanks. :)
Yes I completely agree with you that 3d is too technical, at least it's for me, and I'm no stranger to techniques as I myself research in mathematical physics and program 3d tools myself. I think I can illustrate the feeling somewhat with:

Me ||||| lots of compelex techniques and limitation ||||| art

What I'm trying to say is there is quite a big wall between me and the art I want to create. This is changing for the better, these days we can after all have textures in viewport and spin fairly big models around and at least pretend that they are built from clay. Myself I have actually stopped doing graphics in 3d programs after spending several thousands of hours working with them. I simply don't think the software and hardware is really mature for me to have fun working with it.

Luckily I just came back and realized that I enjoy actually creating the tools more than actually using them. I hope to bring a serious punch into the modeling speed of 3dsmax, hopefully letting the artist get one step closer to the art he/she wants to do.

I will look into those topology threads you mentioned. :)

/Andreas

If you want a hint of what would make life easier for 3D artists...make modeling feel more like Photoshop than some weird arse kabalistic ritual we all go through. :P

Seriously though...I don't understand why detailing models via displacements can't feel more like painting in PS rather than the weird steps one goes through in ZB...i hope BP provides RT painting soon.

Cheers...

Nemoid
09-11-2004, 01:36 PM
a natural process would rely more on reality. Zbrush could be a bit difficult at the start, but working in it seems quite like sculpting and things cannot than grow better in time. its like sculpting, not only painting. painting u have when doing textures on models.since a real sculptor would do into a similar process like Zbrush i don't see great probs.

for characters, an app like z brush, with the possibility to literally draw your polymesh on the char once done it, woul do a good work. even better is if redrawing polyflow wouldn't be necessary at all maybe with an intelligent mesh optimizer. but so far we aren't yet there.

there are also apps like Teddy or other apps wich relies on drawing to build 3d shapes. this isn't a bad idea at all, butreading some opinions about them, seems these apps are not so "magical" as they claim to be.

CB_3D
09-11-2004, 10:01 PM
wasnīt the demo supposed to be available by now?

FunBucket
09-11-2004, 10:05 PM
Is there even going to BE a demo?

Hey Sheep Factory, any more info on that interview with Brad?

SheepFactory
09-11-2004, 10:10 PM
I havent done the interview yet , its next week.

ThomasMahler
09-11-2004, 10:45 PM
Hell, it'd be _really_ nice if one of the Luxology Guys could clear up the situation a little. You guys want us to buy your product, so you could at least give us some information about availability...

Let me put this straight: Will Modo still be available in September or do we have to wait even longer? I'm sure that's what a _LOT_ of people out there really want to know!

lwbob
09-11-2004, 10:49 PM
wasnīt the demo supposed to be available by now?
Maybe if they announced there would be one and then announced when it would be out.

mav3rick
09-12-2004, 12:13 AM
personally i vote for ROCK SOLID/feature LOADED app.. so i think all of us should give em some more time ... at least they didnt take any orders so we have no reson to push them... once they feel ready we will be informed ... and most of all once they release it I BET there will be ppl that will throw rocks on them since they will miss some features... so i think the 1st impression is important for them so we need to wait when they will feel READY to give us tool. A words of support means much more for developers than anythin....

yog
09-12-2004, 01:19 AM
... at least they didnt take any orders so we have no reson to push them...Yep, there are a few companies that will take your money after giving a delivery time, then be late by several months to a year or more, all the time giving you very little feedback on what's happening.

I'm very excited in what Luxology may offer in the next month or two and then later next year. But having had several pre-orders from other software develpers be later (in some cases much later) than estimated delivery times, I wont be unduly worried over an extra week/month or two. In this case it's not like I passed over any money.

f97ao
09-12-2004, 02:14 AM
By the way. Why do you take preorders? Do you really get the software that much faster, or is it to support the company, or is it because it's cheaper, or hmm?

/Andreas

kidcodea
09-12-2004, 02:15 AM
imho anyone that talks of zbrush as a natural intuitive artistry free flowing program can only be considered a tech geek :)

CB_3D
09-12-2004, 02:30 AM
If with pre-orders you are referring to the L8+DF deal, well, we did it because it was a good deal at the time. That simple...

BigJay
09-12-2004, 03:22 AM
I preordered zBrush 2 and LW 8 and got stuck 2 months and 1 year respectively waiting for software to actually come out. I am not going to pre order anything again if I can help it.

I'll wait for reviews by users and demos before I order any more software. Zbrush 2 was very cool step up from 1.55b demo that was out. LW 8 was a semi disappointment so despite the cool demo videos I'll wait till I get real feedback on it.

yog
09-12-2004, 03:49 AM
If with pre-orders you are referring to the L8+DF deal, well, we did it because it was a good deal at the time. That simple...
I only partly meant the LW8-DFX pre-order. Because I only ordered for the free copy of DFX+ (which came straight away) I was only a little narked at LW8 not being released until nearly a year past money changing hands and so little information from Newtek months after the delivery time, instead of very narked if I had actually been after LW8.

But some of the biggest culprits have been Final Render for MAX that was over 1 year late on a 1 month delivery estimate. Not only would Cebas refuse to talk to their paying customers, but they would often ban customers from their forum if they asked for a progress report too much.
Project Messiah was another very late pre-pay with extremely few progress reports from the developers. In hindsight it was worth the (very) long wait, but PR could have been better.
Even my favourite renderer, Vray, is about a year past it's scheduled official upgrade. But to be fair to the Chaos Group, they have provided many free upgrades during that time that actually amount to more than what was officially prommised in the original official update.

So, over the years I have become very philisophical about estimated completion dates. But the LW8 fiasco has certainly jaded me to the point where money changing hands first is probably no longer on the cards. Unless of course the next pre-order of LW comes with a free copy of Maya :D

Beamtracer
09-12-2004, 10:16 AM
People don't seem to worry about Microsoft always running late with everything they make. The long wait for the LongHorn OS is a good example. It's running many years late. You could go gray before it arrives!

With Modo, I think there might have been a slight delay, so Luxology didn't take any pre-orders in the past week. However, I think Modo will be out real soon! Yippee! :bounce:

CB_3D
09-12-2004, 12:39 PM
I only partly meant the LW8-DFX pre-order. Because I only ordered for the free copy of DFX+ (which came straight away) I was only a little narked at LW8 not being released until nearly a year past money changing hands and so little information from Newtek months after the delivery time, instead of very narked if I had actually been after LW8.

So, over the years I have become very philisophical about estimated completion dates. But the LW8 fiasco has certainly jaded me to the point where money changing hands first is probably no longer on the cards. Unless of course the next pre-order of LW comes with a free copy of Maya :D
True, i was irritated by the silence for a year as well. But fact is that our DFX also arrived as soon as we pre-ordered and it paid itself with one quick job. So in the end it WAS a very good deal. I understand there heve been many legal issues to solve behind the curtains (and i am not interested at all in the details) but apart from that NT have never let me/us down as far as updates and info are concerned.

So, if i can afford it at the given time, and if the deal makes sense i will be in row as soon as NEXUS pre-enters the market. This kind of deals usually always benefits the user, specially when you make a living with the soft,IMHO.

Steve McRae
09-12-2004, 12:59 PM
Sheep Factory -

I am really interested in Modo's hard surface modeling capabilities -

ie. bevels, booleans, stenciling, # of points that are allowed in a poly etc.

would you mind asking about these things in your interview?

thanks much . . . :)

Griffon
09-12-2004, 08:30 PM
Sheep Factory -

I am really interested in Modo's hard surface modeling capabilities -

ie. bevels, booleans, stenciling, # of points that are allowed in a poly etc.

would you mind asking about these things in your interview?

thanks much . . . :)

Here is an example of hard surface modeling done in modo. It uses all the things you are asking about.


http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=165950

vuedesprit
09-12-2004, 11:02 PM
hello ERIC, first let me say WOW, what a great model and wonderfull detailing, i'm sure that u insist to tell us that u r not an artist, to show us that even for a non artist, it's easy to go detailing as much as this using MODO (wow how much i like ur stuffs guys)
second i want just to speculate something, and i'm not waiting an answer, cause i know maybe it's not official to tell yet. it's about the modeling and rendering process, i guess that modeling was done in modo, and renderer in nexus or whatever is the module, due to that the renderer and wire r the same angle, same camera, and the wire is in the MODO viewport, so here we can conclude the following, it's like or u r done this work in the complete package NEXUS, so model and render in the same environement using camera view in modeling, or that there is a camera view in MODO viewports, in both cases i'm happy and excited more than my birthday :D
thanks LUX guys for making my dreams come true.

Levitateme
09-13-2004, 10:21 AM
when is modo coming out? i heard late september...and a month ago early september...

ThomasMahler
09-13-2004, 10:28 AM
when is modo coming out? i heard late september...and a month ago early september...

We're all waiting for solid release dates...

jedi71
09-13-2004, 01:59 PM
Here is an example of hard surface modeling done in modo. It uses all the things you are asking about.


http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=165950
Eric,

Awesome , fantastic model!!! :thumbsup:
Even more fantastic considering you said you're not primarily a modeler but a TD!

Now, I'm feeling even better(a lot) abt modo's capabilities, at first, I thought modo's focus was primarily SubD modeling and hence more towards organic/character modeling.

But I'd like to ask, any (basic) spline tools in modo? Or are they completely unnecessary? Please excuse my lack of knowledge, I'm still a beginner in 3D. Thanks.

Steve McRae
09-13-2004, 02:13 PM
Here is an example of hard surface modeling done in modo. It uses all the things you are asking about.


http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=165950
thanks for that eric

Griffon
09-13-2004, 06:32 PM
Eric,

Awesome , fantastic model!!! :thumbsup:
Even more fantastic considering you said you're not primarily a modeler but a TD!

Now, I'm feeling even better(a lot) abt modo's capabilities, at first, I thought modo's focus was primarily SubD modeling and hence more towards organic/character modeling.

But I'd like to ask, any (basic) spline tools in modo? Or are they completely unnecessary? Please excuse my lack of knowledge, I'm still a beginner in 3D. Thanks.
Yes, spline tools are included, but were not used constructing this model.

SheepFactory
09-14-2004, 12:53 AM
Update:


Hi guys ,

I just came back from Luxology where I got a private demonstration of Modo & Nexus from none other than Brad Peebler himself. I'd like to thank Brad for taking time from his busy schedule to answer the many questions me and yourselves asked. I'll be writing the interview as soon as possible so all of you hang in there :)


A couple of random impressions , i dont want to keep this msg long since i'll be writing most of this stuff in the interview (and a review soon to follow)

-Modo brings new meaning to customizability , there are no other apps on the market that offer the level of customization modo offers. I know most of you are skeptic about this , i was too , but wait until you see what is possible , now you have a software that works EXACTLY the way you want it to work and look. I cant emphasize enough how cool this is.

-Workflow , again totally customizable to fit your needs , i have used every modeller on the market and nothing comes close to modo when it comes to sheer workflow speed. luxology spent a lot of time ironing out the quirks and creating a solid workflow. you have to use it to understand , but again i dont think anyone will complain about this. Certain things that take 6 clicks in other apps flow like water in modo. If you think wings workflow is fast , just wait and see :)

-The renderer is FAST: Brad rendered a 850 something million scene with radiosity , high AA and micropoly displacements in less than 30 seconds on a dual g5 2.0. I havent seen anything like it. Also the interactive renderer , its blazingly fast , he pretty much INTERACTIVELY flew around the scene WHILE ITS RENDERING , and it never took more than 3 seconds for the renderer to update. You have to see this to believe. F-prime lovers are in for a treat. Again more on this on the interview.

-Morph tools are unbelieveable , you can mix match morphs , you can paint from one morph on top of the other morph witha airbrush like tool , all this stuff is interactive and again i havent seen anything like that. more details in the interview.

I can go on and on but you'll all have to wait :) ,


I hate to sound like i am hyping , but frankly it deserves nothing but praise from what i have seen , if this app rocks so much on v1 , i can only imagine a bright future for luxology.

Speaking of which , while i was there Brad recieved a message from a modeller in one of the most famous studios in the world , and they are already using modo on their next movie. Actually the message was to ask if the other modellers can get in on the beta too since they were so impressed with modo. So for those who say "studios wont buy this" well they already did and using it in production it seems :)

I should go write the interview while you all digest this.

Cheers ,
Ali

Chaz
09-14-2004, 01:02 AM
If they have something that tops Fprime, my seat of Lightwave is going to be on eBay before you know it. :p

Beamtracer
09-14-2004, 01:04 AM
"there are no other apps on the market that offer the level of customization modo offers."

"i have used every modeller on the market and nothing comes close to modo when it comes to sheer workflow speed."

"The renderer is FAST: Brad rendered a 850 something million scene with radiosity , high AA and micropoly displacements in less than 30 seconds on a dual g5 2.0. I havent seen anything like it."

Well done, Sheep Factory. I'm now more excited than ever. I think I'd better put my order in for Modo as soon as it comes out, while the price discount is still on.

How did Luxology achieve this? How is it so fast, when they said that 98% of the code is platform agnostic (only 2% of the code is written for Mac or Windows specifically). Yet it still goes so fast.

private
09-14-2004, 01:59 AM
I'll be writing the interview as soon as possible so all of you hang in there :)
I can't wait. I hope you hit him will most or all the questions!

SheepFactory
09-14-2004, 02:02 AM
most of the questions are asked.

I have a 90 minute tape to transcribe thats how in depth it is :)

Steve McRae
09-14-2004, 02:08 AM
i can't wait too - I would love to get rid of my licence of LW but can't right now because I rely on it's high poly, hard surface modeling capabilites . . . Maya just is not up to the task for some things . . .

if modo lives up to the hype I would love to replace LW with something different . . . is there still 'something special' or a 'special bonus' for LW8 owners?

cheers

vuedesprit
09-14-2004, 02:09 AM
Sheep Factory how much time should i stay awaked until u post the interview :)
plz sooner i can't resist my, my eyes r closing and i start to dream, MODO :)

FunBucket
09-14-2004, 02:40 AM
OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

jedi71
09-14-2004, 03:13 AM
Yes, spline tools are included, but were not used constructing this model.Eric, thanks a lot for answering my question. :)
Nice to know that its included.
Just re-read the Q&A with Brad and realized this question has already been answered. :shrug:

js33
09-14-2004, 04:35 AM
How did Luxology achieve this? How is it so fast, when they said that 98% of the code is platform agnostic (only 2% of the code is written for Mac or Windows specifically). Yet it still goes so fast.
Because Allen and Stuart are geniuses. :buttrock: Plus the fact that they were able to write new code from scratch and didn't have to carry any baggage with them.

I'm already sold on Modo's and Nexus' capabilities and would like to hear something about the animation module and dynamic capabilites.

Cheers,
JS

prajna
09-14-2004, 05:18 AM
if modo lives up to the hype I would love to replace LW with something different . . . is there still 'something special' or a 'special bonus' for LW8 owners?

I think LW7 owners should get the same discount as LW8 owners. Why? Because a good many of us held off on 8 to see what Luxology would create. Now that we're on the verge of being able to experience it for ourselves, I think Luxology should acknowledge those of us who have waited and now are keen on transitioning into the MODO/NEXUS workflow with an identical discount. Okay, that's enough on that.

And yes, I too am very eager to hear about the animation side of all this...was that covered in the interview with Brad? I guess we'll be finding out soon enough. Thanks for doing it, Sheep Factory!



*

ThomasMahler
09-14-2004, 06:23 AM
Wow, Sheep! If what you're saying is true, Modo could be awesome - I'm sceptical, but now I'm also somehow hyped. 900 bucks, jesus... But if Modo gives me all of that -> Money well spent! :)

I'm looking for a modeler that surpasses Wings for quite a while now (I love the Wings Workflow, but Wings misses a lot of cool features...), seems like Modo could do the job!

AmbiDextrose
09-14-2004, 06:37 AM
I, too, am quite impressed. I've been looking for a polygonaly modeler that could augment my current NURBS modeler (Rhino3D). I think MODO will fit the bill quite nicely although I do want to try the software before I buy it. Currently, I've been playing around with the modeling tools offered by XSI and I've been pretty happy with it so far (the animation and rendering systems are a bonus that I'll have to learn some day). Although very impressed (especially after Sheep's revelations), I am still adoping a wait-and-see attitude towards this tool.

zen jehad
09-14-2004, 09:18 AM
Oh damn, i think my wallet is about to take another beating. lol

sheep - it sounds all good from what you say. This'll be really cool for me cause I mostly model and texture anyway.

zen jehad
09-14-2004, 09:26 AM
Because Allen and Stuart are geniuses. :buttrock: Plus the fact that they were able to write new code from scratch and didn't have to carry any baggage with them.

Cheers,
JS

That's one of the things that has me hooked so far, that it's Allen & Stuart who are behind it. I used to use LW but moved on to XSI for various reasons. But now hearing what modo sounds like, it feels like it's going to be what LW could have been (not to hammer on down on LW though).

So I'm pretty sure I'll be happy with the workflow, toolset, and so on cause of what I said above.

One other great thing though, is that there's a Mac version, so I can now keep the PC for XSI, and modo away on the Powerbook.


happy days ahead I think.

Nemoid
09-14-2004, 10:10 AM
Update:


Hi guys ,

I just came back from Luxology where I got a private demonstration of Modo & Nexus from none other than Brad Peebler himself. I'd like to thank Brad for taking time from his busy schedule to answer the many questions me and yourselves asked. I'll be writing the interview as soon as possible so all of you hang in there :)



I hate to sound like i am hyping , but frankly it deserves nothing but praise from what i have seen , if this app rocks so much on v1 , i can only imagine a bright future for luxology.

Ali
Thanx for the awesome infos Sheep. from your words seems that Modo will be truely revolutionary at the end of the day, and it's release 1.0 :)

Too happy about the rendering and the soft being adopted in the industry.

Hope that future Lux animation tools will be revolutionary as well, compared to other apps.

Can't wait for your interview! write fast pls :drool:

BinarySoup
09-14-2004, 11:45 AM
I should go write the interview while you all digest this. digested, now go go go like the wind :D

beamtracer wrote:
How did Luxology achieve this? How is it so fast, when they said that 98% of the code is platform agnostic (only 2% of the code is written for Mac or Windows specifically). Yet it still goes so fast. well, the platform specific code likely comes down to base os functions and certain optimized assembly parts, and the rest 98% being portable c++ which wraps the aforementioned os/hardware dependant code.

hmm... the price is steep for my budget, but I'm sure eager to get my hands on modo, time to look over my assets I guess, like, do I really need two kidneys...?

private
09-14-2004, 11:55 AM
Because Allen and Stuart are geniuses. :buttrock: Plus the fact that they were able to write new code from scratch and didn't have to carry any baggage with them.

I'm already sold on Modo's and Nexus' capabilities and would like to hear something about the animation module and dynamic capabilites.

Cheers,
JSActually, they've proven that they have, in the past, made an excellent modeler, renderer and sfx package (Lightwave) but they haven't proven squat in the way of an animation package. If you want to judge Luxology on what they did in development before modo (Lightwave) in regards to animation, I would say they didn't do well at all. Hopefully, with hindsight and rebuilding from the ground up, they will be able to compete with XSI, Maya and MotionBuilder in regards to animation.

Can't wait to read Sheep Factory's article. I'm also hoping Luxology puts up some more demo videos too.

Para
09-14-2004, 12:20 PM
Seems like Modo/Nexus will be Lightwave on steroids, which is a good thing of course. I do have to mention though that reading your wows when the morph system is mentioned makes me chuckle since it's almost 1:1 with Lightwave's morph system (plus the interactivity things), which is already...I don't know, 5 years old? :) Can't imagine why endomorphs haven't hit thru yet...

Sil3
09-14-2004, 01:39 PM
Actually, they've proven that they have, in the past, made an excellent modeler, renderer and sfx package (Lightwave) but they haven't proven squat in the way of an animation package. True, but see the entire scenario. LW (Modeler and Layout) where not build thinking in Character Animation (the real thumbsdown of LW), things where added but when u have an architecture that was not build thinking in a specific feature, it must be real hard to add tools that shine on C.A. Take a look at MAX, even if it has better C.A. tools than LW, itīs still not itīs plus, same happens with C4D, great render and now great modeling tools, but look at itīs C.A. tools and tell me it stand a chance against XSI, Messiah, Maya or even A:M on C.A. features.

With the oportunitie of building from the ground up a new 3D package, im pretty sure that Stu and Allen had C.A. in mind also (this is not 1995 or 96 anymore).

Anyway, i already own 2 of the best C.A. tools in the market (Messiah and XSI) so even if Lux somehow "fails" to deliver a top notch C.A. tool, im already happy with what they did on their modeler, very happy indeed.

For me LWīs Modeler has the BEST workflow in Organic modeling, if Modo kept that and added the much needed features that lacks on LWīs Modeler, then im happy to say that they already have a customer in here.

I have faith in Stu and Allen, they made a revolutionary 3d package called LW, im pretty sure that whatever they are cooking will be not less than spectacular and a joy to work with.

tjnyc
09-14-2004, 02:27 PM
I haven't gone through all the post, so I don't know if this has been answered, but the one question I want answered is whether or not there will be a demo version of Modo for us to try before we buy/pre-order. I am so far unaffected by the hype, and I don't really care if ILM or some other BIG studio is using Modo, it comes down to how it works for me that matters in the end for myself. First-hand experience is the numero uno criteria I require before ever considering making a purchase. I hope that this question is brought up in the interview.


Cheers,

michaeli
09-14-2004, 02:46 PM
same happens with C4D, great render and now great modeling tools, but look at itīs C.A. tools and tell me it stand a chance against XSI, Messiah, Maya or even A:M on C.A. features.

Things have been changed since C4D R9 has released powerful CA tools, i think.

retinajoy
09-14-2004, 02:50 PM
..and LW 8 char tools are a big improvement too from 7.5.

I am looking forward to this interview. Modo/Nexus sounds very promising. I do a fair bit of modelling in my work and would love to try a demo for purchasing consideration.

tjnyc
09-14-2004, 03:02 PM
Things have been changed since C4D R9 has released powerful CA tools, i think.
I don't think "powerful" is the right word, more like they have finally caught up with some good CA tools.

Cheers,

Sil3
09-14-2004, 04:46 PM
..and LW 8 char tools are a big improvement too from 7.5.

They are? :rolleyes:

Strange, taking the fact that now we can Rig inside Layout with an integrated plugin that tries to mimic the superb Messiah workflow but doesnīt even come near (probably due to LW own limitations), and have a Dopesheet i dont see any major diference between LW7.5 and LW8 C.A. tools.

IK itīs still the slowest of them all, although NT keeps saying that IK is improved by leaps every new version, i think they never saw Messiah, XSI, Maya and A:M IK implementation, if they did, probably they would now have a top notch IK system to.

IKBooster? In theory looks wonderfull, in practice itīs another tool to be quiet and dont touch it most of the time.

Not even mentioning that u must use Modeler to paint and ajust weights, switching back and forth between Modeler and Layout just to check them...nice workflow thatīs for sure ;)

Even if LW8 was leaps ahead of LW7.5 (wich is not), itīs current C.A. toolset/workflow implementation is completly outdated and awkward IMO.

When i compare C.A. tools/features/workflow, i compared them to the BIG GUNS out there, those are the guys that dicates the rules and everyone else (smaller/cheaper software) tries to follow. Some smaller companys even surpass expectations and release amazing C.A.tools and WORKFLOW ( Messiah and A:M ), others constantly play the catch up game but seeming decades behind all the time.

Im expecting the Animation package from LUX to have the same power/features and most important amazing WORKFLOW, if itīs something in the likes of LW or even the new catch up on C4D, then i consider they didnīt delivered a top notch C.A. package, but maybe that itīs not their aim after all. Lets see what LUX guys will present us before we jump into conclusions (like my own), in the meantime im 99.9% sold on MODO, bring it on guys :buttrock:

retinajoy
09-14-2004, 04:58 PM
They are? :rolleyes:

Strange, taking the fact that now we can Rig inside Layout with an integrated plugin that tries to mimic the superb Messiah workflow but doesnīt even come near (probably due to LW own limitations), and have a Dopesheet i dont see any major diference between LW7.5 and LW8 C.A. tools.
Well, I guess 'big improvement' is in the 'Eye of the Beholder'. Haven't used Messiah or Maya, so I can't compare. In LW8, I do like how you can cut up, save rigs and load them into other characters.

I do agree though that LW is playing catch up and that Nexus will have to be a major improvement in Char Anim to compare well or better with some of those other packages you mentioned. Modo/Nexus certainly looks promising though. :)

SheepFactory
09-14-2004, 05:48 PM
By the way , just started a modo chatroom at the same server with the #cgtalk irc room , can be found here:

irc.freenode.net

#modo


come in and discuss all things modo before and after its release.

Nemoid
09-14-2004, 07:15 PM
one thing must be taken into serious consideration:

Lw was not projected to do very heavy char animation. has improved greatly, but originally it was 2 apps projected to do titles and sfx for Tv and some more thing. considering this it was a great tool, until version 5.6 forsure. them has evolved into a half implemented manner, improving but not changing its core structure, hub was created to make the 2 apps work better together, but it was some sort of workaround. same for skelegons ecc.

the new Lw 8 tools for rigging (not so much CA enhancements there) are not as good as let's say Maya rigging toolset, and CA isn't capable like Maya or XSI, because even if it's really possible is not handy for huge works, so everithing most be split into several parts and workarounds have to be done to complete the job.

Surely a good artist can animate in Lw as well, but it's not the same as animating into modern packages, and let's not talk about MB or Messiah.
Messiah, was in fact used greatly just for the lacks of capability in Lw char animation and there are several reasons of course.

Despite all these facts,wich regard more Lw evolution rather than its original conception, LW works pretty well for the price it costs , at least until the shocking XSI new pricing for foundation, so that for the solo user is still a good app.

Great part of the cleverness put originally in the app will be surely inherited by Modo/Nexus. in fact Modo is a Lw modeler on serious steroids, expanding the original philosophy of Lw, coupling it with more modern features present into other big apps.

About Nexus i hope will expand the app in the CA direction, wich is very important if Lux will want to compete with Alias and Avid (recommended) for now we know good things about rendering engine wich seems to be really great.

Actually i'm very positive about Lux project and produts. there's always space for innovative products wich give us better and intuitive tools and speed up greatly our workflow.

Flexibility ease of use and opened structure helps both the single artist or small company and also large studios.to complete the job better and faster, and i'd say funnier too. :)

The market is very aggressive recently, so i wish Lux guys great luck.
They started well with Modo, now let's know more of it, try it and also see what comes exactly after.:thumbsup:

Steve McRae
09-14-2004, 07:52 PM
well put nemoid

Proximus
09-15-2004, 02:37 AM
Thank you Sheep Factory for the update, I am waiting patiently for the interview and for a DEMO too..

nuclearfessel
09-15-2004, 03:12 AM
thanks SheepFactory for doing the interview... will stay tuned for that... by the way, did you ask when exactly they plan on starting the preorders?