Fokker DVII - WW1 fighter

[mmiller]

The key to this project is to quickly extract the data i need from the Eduard model so that i can use it to generate surfaces that are suitable to my needs.
And I need to texture map this thing.
That is what drives this whole process.

Engineering 3D models almost never get mapped.
That's not what they are for.
And if you are using Microstation, you need to generate the geometry in a particular way so that the pieces have an even grain amd are not broken up into many smaller pieces.

This series of images shows how i modeled the wing.
I used the splines that defines the bottom of the rib tapes to get my x-sections.

Here's the original wire from Eduard:
http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/d7w1.jpghttp://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7w1.jpg

and it renders out like this - notice that each bay is a seperate object.
Just imagine trying to texture map that
http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/d7w2.jpghttp://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7w2.jpg

Here are the elements I created to generate the wing.
If it wasn't foer that subtle dip in the ceneter section i would have been able to get away with just 4 sections - oh well
http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/d7w5.jpghttp://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7w5.jpg

surfaces out like this - notice the regular grain - and it is all in 3 pieces
http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/d7w3.jpghttp://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7w3.jpg

renders out like this.
http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7w4.jpg

The only correct section is the starboard wing - i just applied that map to the other two surfaces - which is why the center is squished.
http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/d7w4.jpg

[mmiller]

And here's where i'm at now
almost all the major surfaces on the fuse have been modeled.
and i've taken a first pass at most of the texture maps.
Still have lots of work to do - but it's getting there :)

http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/d7fus.jpghttp://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7fus.jpg

http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7air.jpg
http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/d7air.jpg

[techart]

the model is great but I think the textures doesn't help too much....I think you can try better other textures to put in value your model


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my work:
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/4/3667/3667_1087296147_large.jpg
http://www.cgnetworks.com/gallerycrits/64781/64781_1091616205.jpg
http://www.cgtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56228
http://www.cgtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56230

[mmiller]

the model is great but I think the textures doesn't help too much....I think you can try better other textures to put in value your modelHi Techart
Thanks for the reply
Could you do me a favour and be a little more specific about what you don't like about the textures?
Or how you think I might be able to improve them?
The current map set is on the ground image.
The in flight image has yesterday's version :)

Mark

[techart]

the colors from the plain...I could make them other way if I ware you....first that idea with the hexagones ..and the hexagones colors.....maybe the real model looks this way..I don't know..you tell me.....if is treu than thi is ok cause you wannted to make something real


but if it doesn't I'll say you put sopmething like a camo.....I work as a game grafician..and I make textures since 5-6 years ago ...believe me... the textures doesn't help


the backgound is cool.....no problem there...just the hexagons eat my brain :)))

cheers


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my work:
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/4/3667/3667_1087296147_large.jpg
http://www.cgnetworks.com/gallerycrits/64781/64781_1091616205.jpg
http://www.cgtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56228
http://www.cgtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56230

[Guybrush]

nice to see another project from u mmiller, its looking very nice so far, altough is still in the beginning, about the camouflage, well, i´v already seen many weird pattern on oldie war planes, so i don´t doubt this is a real camouflage this used to have, if its the case i dont see any problem with it, altough i admit it may appear weird for other people when seeing, in the other hand, the persons who are interested in this kind of material, surelly recognizes it, and such an original camouflage is always nice to see :), so keep the good work

[Sky_Chris]

Yup, the camo definitelt fits, and i must say i don't see any flaw in the design of the texture map. If you look at reference, they looked somewhat like this and only started out camoing the planes sometime during WW I. They weren't very sophisticated when they first started. The Red Baron and his "flying circus" were called like that because when they were ordered to "paint their planes" they painted them bright to attract the enemy...

Nice shot!

Oh my god, where's the pilot!!! They didn't wear parachutes back then!

[mmiller]

and the hexagones colors.....maybe the real model looks this way..I don't know..you tell me.....if is treu than thi is ok cause you wannted to make something realAh yes, the lozenge pattern
well... I have invested quite a bit of time trying to assure that I'm getting this right.
Historical accuracy is something that is important to me.

Here's a photo of a DVII from the Deutsches Museum in Munich
http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Ger/Fok_DVII/other/DMM/fokker_cowl.jpg

I've actualy done quite a bit of research on this lozenge camo scheme.
Came in 5 and 4 color versions

5 color info
//www.wwi-models.org/misc/Colors/German/loz2/index.html (http://www.wwi-models.org/misc/Colors/German/loz2/index.html)

4 color info
//www.wwi-models.org/misc/Colors/German/4color_loz/4color_loz.htm (http://www.wwi-models.org/misc/Colors/German/4color_loz/4color_loz.htm)

Thanks for the input:)
mark

[techart]

told ya...if you've make him after a real model its cool/....didn't know that is your intention....cheers

[EricCartman]

MM is always going for realism as far as I know. I mean, why model an accurate WW plane and then put a Mickey Mouse paint scheme on it :)

This baby is looking great and I know the final result will be jaw dropping.

[techart]

whell....didn't say MICKEY MOUSE buit you have to admit that the hexagonal design is not that beautiful.....any graphic artist can tell that.....didn't know he's making a real plain after a picture ..that is something else...if that design from ww2 was cool than...now I'm not that sure mate...

[EricCartman]

I agree with you about the hexagons. They aren't easy on the eyes, but that is how it was :)

[mmiller]

Techart
No problem – I’d question that camo scheme myself – it is rather odd.
But, do you really think it is unattractive?
Not that “beauty” is terribly important to me – ugly can be interesting as well.
But I think it looks VERY cool.
Maybe I’ve just been looking at it too long.


And it's a pretty darn clever solution when you think about it.
I love this “truth is stranger than fiction” stuff.:D

thanks for all the comments guys
Mark

[techart]

ohhh no...it's not that is ugly or something but in your place I would done it other way.....don't understand me wrong..the texture is worked allright..only the target you wannted should be diferent...even you've worked after a picture and you wannted to do the original one...you can rich a higher level of succes with a normal texture for example with a simple metal with a simple color and a bit rust maybe on the edges if you wanna look something a bit old.....it's not about you texture making skills at all...but about the target you've choosen......I don't think this model(original one)..have just one model of paint... the best from techart..good luck

[mmiller]

it's not about you texture making skills at all...but about the target you've choosen......I don't think this model(original one)..have just one model of paint... the best from techart..good luckTech art
Your are right - this airplane was widely used toward the end of the war - and there were MANY interesting and varied paint schemes that were applied.
And I intend to illustrate as many of them as I can.
I have everything set up so that I can quickly and easily change color schemes.
All major maps are saved in .pdf format with the base color scheme residing on it's own level.
all weathering/grime/dirt effects are isolated on their own levels.
That way you just have to generate the base flat color scheme - then slip it into the .psd file.
exort out the final map and your done ....it's pretty easy
Only problem is you end up with lots of files - and they can get pretty big after a while.
well... disk space is cheap these days

in any case
the only reason i picked the loz scheme to start out with is because I figured it would be the most difficult.

[mmiller]

Not much of an update
But I have worked the maps on the front section
I think I might have been a little heavy handed with the weathering.
But, I'll leave it for now and move on to other issues.
http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7fin5.jpg
http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/d7fin4.jpg
http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7fin4.jpg
http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/d7fin4CU.jpg
http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7fin4CU.jpg
also
I'm still trying to zero in on the correct colors for the lozenge scheme.
//http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16203 (http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16203)

[:zepedro:]

Hi there!

This airplane is coming along great!! :thumbsup:
Those colourful hexagonal camouflages where really like this on those times... and they worked really well BTW,
i like this camos alot :) (BTW some WWII planes had a Mickey Mouse painted on the fuselage!!!)
The colors are well picked IMO, at least from what i saw on the photo refs you linked. But i´m no expert on this subject :shrug:
As for the weathering on the textures, i like it a lot, and i think it's working well on the wide shot. On close view the effect appears to be too strong but, in general, it´s making wonders on the look of this plane!!!
You could try some specular maps (or some bumpiness), to break those highlights...

Keep the good work!!

greets

[techart]

nice dude ..lots of details in the front area...keep going

[mmiller]

Hi :Zepedro:
Thanks
I'm still debating with myself over that weathering.
I figure i'll just wait untill I am ready to set up the environment for the final renders and see what it looks like.
I think the density and saturation is a little to high - but I might be able to use that to advantage when it comes time to lighting it.
we will see :)

tech art
yeah, i'll definitly keep going
I need to produce two final illustrations by Sept 1.
so I don't have a lot of time to screw around.:eek:

[Obizzz]

always great to see new work from you, keep it up!

[techart]

k..good luck :thumbsup:

[mmiller]

I decided it would be a good idea to add the basic internal framework.
This cut away is by no means complete, and I'm dying to go back in and refine/add the details.
But, what i need is the externals, so this is kind of a waste of time.
But - I aquired an excelent dimensioned plan of all the pertinant parts from Achim Engles who is currently building a repro.
And tubular structure like this is REALY easy to model
so I figured what the hell

Besides, you will be able to see a little of it .... sort of
and it extremly useful when you need to figure out exactly where things attach.
http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7int800.jpg

http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7intcu.jpg

http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7internal.jpg

In any case
The engine and Spandaus are a direct steal from the DVa project
Tubular sub-structure from Achim
and everything else is as per the Eduard model (cockpit detail, external surfaces, LG, prop).

http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/d7int800.jpg

http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/d7intcu.jpg

[mcmoin]

wow, really great.

very clean and nice textured! love such detailed models

[swampthing]

I've always been more into WW2 era myself but just looking at your model and that real picture you posted makes you really appreciate the amount of courage it must have taken just to get in the damn thing and fly it let alone fly it and attempt to shoot someone down in it.

Honestly these things about the same structural integrity as a go kart i built when i was a kid. Great model, the details are superb. The only crit i'd even venture to make is that it looks a bit flat at the moment for some reason and i can't really articulate why.

[gabby_ovadia]

I just Love it.

[techart]

oouch..cool man..nice motor

[mmiller]

I've always been more into WW2 era myself but just looking at your model and that real picture you posted makes you really appreciate the amount of courage it must have taken just to get in the damn thing and fly it let alone fly it and attempt to shoot someone down in it.

Honestly these things about the same structural integrity as a go kart i built when i was a kid. Great model, the details are superb. The only crit i'd even venture to make is that it looks a bit flat at the moment for some reason and i can't really articulate why.Swampthing
If you think this looks dangerous - you should check out some of the flimsy crates they used early in the war. :eek:
Many consider the dVII to be the most advanced aircraft to come out of WW1.

flat you say?
I hate flat - I'll keep it in mind

Here's another test shot.
One of the problems with my rendering routine is that there is no reflected light.
I think that is why my shadow areas go so dark.
I can rectify it somewhat by adding lights.
But I think i'll need to render out a version with the top wing off and then merge the two in Pshop - and work them together to pull some light in there.
http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/d7air_test.jpg
http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7air_test.jpg

And here's my first attempt at another camo scheme that was used on a lot of these aircraft. This is a factory finish appplied by Fokker.
I think they used a "dry brush" technique to get it streaky like this.
another paint/weight saving idea.

http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7streak_test.jpg
http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/d7streak_test.jpg

[Guybrush]

looking very nice, also the new camouflage its nice but i prefer the hexa.
Hav u already considered using another program to render, seems u are facing many problems with rendering cause of the software u use

[techart]

nice allready :thumbsup:

[mmiller]

Hi
revising the Mercedes engine to convert it from a DVA installation in to a Fokker DVII installation. Still have a couple of things to add, but that part on the top/front of the engine was the worst of it - complicated shape

I've realy gotten a lot of use out of this engine :thumbsup:
http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/merc180b.jpg
http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/merc180b.jpg

[Guybrush]

its looking great, good use of textures

[mmiller]

Just about done with this particular configuration
Problem with the DVII is there were MANY configurations.
Main differences are in the louveres and accses panels.
definitly can get confusing.

still lots of stuff I'd like to add/refine.
But this should do for now
Time to start in on the final composition :)

http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7oaw.jpg
http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/d7oaw.jpg
http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/oaw2.jpg
http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/oaw2.jpg
http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7oaw_cu.jpg
http://mwmiller.net/Fokker_DVII/d7oaw_cu.jpg

[Skyraider3D]

Hey Mark,

You're become a real 3D WW1 aircraft factory, ey? ;)
Your D.VII is coming together nicely. You coulnd't resist sticking in loads of detail again? :D
One comment though... if you're aiming for realism, be careful not to make your textures too painterly. Good work either way, as we've come to expect from you! :thumbsup:

[DannyDreams]

Looks awsome! But you should try putting some more wear and tear on it. Some burn marks or dents and maybe a scratch here or there. You know make it look like its seen its fair share of dog fights. Awsome work though. :thumbsup:

[mmiller]

Hey Mark,

You're become a real 3D WW1 aircraft factory, ey? ;)
Your D.VII is coming together nicely. You coulnd't resist sticking in loads of detail again? :D
One comment though... if you're aiming for realism, be careful not to make your textures too painterly. Good work either way, as we've come to expect from you! :thumbsup:Hi Ronnie
well - you know we have discused this one before.
and I am less devoted to "photrealism" than you.
cameras are great and all - I just don't think they are the final word on realism :)
However - you are quite right - this does seem more "painterly" than anything I've done before.
I'm not sure why - didn't do it on purpose
But I LIKE it :thumbsup:
thanks for the observation


Dannydreams
What?? somebody telling me to make it dirtier
That's a switch
Usualy I get the opposite.

but, i'm with you
dirty is almost always better :)
I'll be making lots of these DVII - and some will be dirtier than others.
looking forward to chipping off some paint

[Skyraider3D]

Mark,

A painterly style is quite nice too, however I think you will have to put a bit of work in your background images in that case, not to break the style. What I personally don't like is when a clearly non-photorealistic plane is being put on top of a photograph. It happens very often in 3D (hell, I've done it myself! :rolleyes:). It looks so "cut-and-paste" if you know what I mean. In my opinion the background needs to match the plane to make the image into one unity. So if you stick with the textures (and I'm not suggesting you shouldn't, as they look lovely :)) then you might want to consider editing the background photo to match the painterly style or draw something even. Anything but a plain photo. I hope you understand what I mean :D

[mmiller]

Mark,

A painterly style is quite nice too, however I think you will have to put a bit of work in your background images in that case, not to break the style. What I personally don't like is when a clearly non-photorealistic plane is being put on top of a photograph. It happens very often in 3D (hell, I've done it myself! :rolleyes:). It looks so "cut-and-paste" if you know what I mean. In my opinion the background needs to match the plane to make the image into one unity. So if you stick with the textures (and I'm not suggesting you shouldn't, as they look lovely :)) then you might want to consider editing the background photo to match the painterly style or draw something even. Anything but a plain photo. I hope you understand what I mean :DHi Ronnie
Yes, i totaly understand what you are saying.
It is sometimes very difficult to get all the elements to merge together seamlessly.
And nothing is worse than that horrible cut & paste look.
It is a huge issue.

I'm not happy with the fact that i am relying on photographic backgrounds at all.
And i would very much like to find another way
Something that would give me better flexability and control.

perhaps painting them like you suggests is an answer.
hard to say if this will be succsesful
Getting a hand painted background to merge with 3D rendered geometry will probably be more problematic than using photos.
But, it is worth a try.

That being said
I did not feel that the background in this particular image "clashed" with the aircraft.
I do see that this particular set of maps is more "painterly" than what I typicaly do.
But everything seems to merge to my eye.
But, now that you have brought it up, i'll be on the look out.

In any case
I VERY much want to keep the painterly look on this image.
I think it is particlularly appropriate for a model box illustration.
How many photographs have you seen on model boxes?
I haven't seen many
If I handed them something that looked Exactly like a photo
i would think they would be disapointed :cool:

thanks for the crit
Mark

[baddog]

I think its magnificent. however I have one critical comment. the small louvres on the side cowling have a high and completely even specularity and look very very shiny and 'cgi' and tear the eye away from the rest of the model regrettably.

Shaun

[mmiller]

Here's the other variant I need to illustrate.
I believe this is the initial production version as produced by Fokker.
You can see that there are no louvers and the engine cowling almost completely covers the engine.
This led to overheating problems and several AC were lost to fire
so subsequent variants tried different combinations of louvers and cutouts in the cowling to rectify the problems.
In many cases, they flew this early variant with the top cowl removed.
As soon as I complete the engine compartment I'll render some out.

this is a generic Jasta 10 scheme.
These are just a couple preliminary test renders :)
http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7_fok_early.jpg

http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/d7_early.jpg

[Skyraider3D]

Looks nice Mark, although I think the lighting doesn't match the photo very well. But it's a WIP, I know ;)

[mmiller]

Looks nice Mark, although I think the lighting doesn't match the photo very well. But it's a WIP, I know ;)
Hi Ronnie
Yes, I must agree - the BG integration is not quite right.
I'm trying to simulate the lighting late in the day - where the ground is already in shadow , while the aircraft are still in sunlight.
Not sure how viable this is - might look odd no matter what i do.

thanks for the crit
mark

[:zepedro:]

Hi

The plane is looking great, and i really like your idea for the lighting. :thumbsup:
IMO you could change the color of the light, giving it a warmer feel, the shadow areas should have a strong, deep blue, cast. The haze on the far airplane could be more blueish also.
Maybe if the sun light striked the planes slighty from botton, the angles looked better!
I think that this image, at such daytime, has a lot of potential, you should pursue it :)


greets

[dan1el]

Thanks forthe inspiration for the CAD -> Rendered still....I've tried some too, from UG through IGES to Maya, they all looked great, no real breaks in the surfaces or miscalculations (I used Okino PolyTrans for translating).
I know your model was fairly simple, sine it was from a modelmanufacturer, but my biggest problem with the translations have been to many objects (10.000+) and each object consist of several surfaces (at least 4). So smaller segments for me.

I really like your work great source of inspiration.
I don't have many c.c. for this project, as you are the expect at these WW1 planes ;)

When I get myself together I'll post some of my work (CAD rendered pics).

EDIT: Just uploaded some, planning on making a post about it...you can see them here: LINK (http://www.baggravation.net/daniel)

Next time I got to work, I better ask if I am allowed to show these onn the net....but they are all the copyrighted to MAN B&W Diesel A/S, just so you know.

[Skyraider3D]

Daniel, for your own good - ask first, then post! ;)
Some of these images may show some know-how, which your company may not want to share on the net...

[dan1el]

Some of these images may show some know-how, which your company may not want to share on the net...I don't think so though....it's used for video covers and posters (except the really green one and the screendump)

But i'll better ask...so you all better hurry and look at them before I have to take them down again ;)

[Skyraider3D]

If it's used for publically available stuff it should be fine. But yea, better ask first (and don't tell 'em you already did it! LOL!).

[mmiller]

Eduard just announced these kits
so Here is the final art.:)

Box art for Eduard's 1/48th scale Early Fokker DVII kit
Foreground - Offz-Stv Paul Aue
upper right - Ltn Friedrichs


http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/DVII_early_fin_900.jpg

http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/DVII_early_fin_cu.jpg


Box art for Eduard's 1/48th scale Fokker DVII kit (OAW)
Illustration depicts
Obit. Hasso von Wedel
http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/DVII_oaw_fin.jpg

http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/Fokker_DVII/DVII_oaw_fin_cu.jpg

[Guybrush]

very nice images , congrtulations mmiller :)

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