Portfolio Concept Sketch - Input please

[Kirt]

It's a good image to show if you want to demonstrate your ability to create a dramatic camera angle (storyboard type of stuff). But as far as a finished work, I'd say it seems very sketchy and incomplete.

What would I change? I'd desaturate the colors of the trees, mountains and sky behind the characters. Remember that things fade in color and get blurry as they go further back. I'd also try to tighten up the characters more so that you can see details a bit better. Maybe some harsher shadows will help (but don't ask me how to do that, I'm not the greatest with light either).

I think you also have a problem with the perspective. The people on the roof are either kneeling or their legs are sticking through the roof. If they are kneeling then the pose on the girl looks wierd. She seems more like she's standing.

If I look at this as a storyboard example, there are only a few things that come to mind. Where's the horse that pulls the wagon? Why are the people on the roof? And why is the girl in her underwear? I guess you'd have to include other panels to get this information across to the viewer.

One last bit of advice ... don't make your signature so dominant on your images. You want to show your art, not your ability to spell your name correctly. :D One of my art instructors told me the same thing ... I laughed for about an hour and then realized how true that was.

[Gamoron]

LOL. Thanks Kirt, I felt I could count on a good response from you. Cheers :beer: . Yep, I've got a problem with lighting, I'm always creating stuff that needs harder shadows or harder lighting. They're kneeling on the roof, and he pulls the wagon, the handles are hidden by the grass. I figured I'd have viewer problem with that. If you someone hiring I'd obviously have lost the chance. As for the underwear thingy, I just figured that's what people look for these days. I'll get some clothes on the poor girl and pull her off the roof. And do all the other things you've suggested.

edit: I'm taking the girl out completely. :rolleyes: sigh

Cheers again Kirt. I appreciate your comments, and btw your challenge image is lookin great. :thumbsup:

[Gamoron]

Here's the update. girl is gone. Mountains and trees desaturated, contrast increased on the whole image. I'll tighten the rest later, though I'll admit I like large loose strokes.


I'm going to delete the 1st posted image later today to save CG Talk some space. I want to say that I appreciate the opportunity they give me here.

[jeroentje]

He Gamoron,

Don't delete the first post... Besides the fact that the whole thread will disappear, if you would only delete the picture, it would take all the sense out of the thread and makes Kirt's reply useless for other viewers. I want to compare the first and next posts of you and see the changes.

As the new rules say; attaching an update (certainly after some crittics) is not a problem, and the new rules are not for serverspace reasons.

Anyway, your changes worked for the piece. Looks more dramatic this way, and has more depth too.
Cheers, jeroentje :beer:

[alchoi]

Cool ... reminds me a lot of Lupin the third, or Miyazaki stuff ...

From a storyboard point of view ...watch the T-intersection on the blue dude ... a general rule of thumb is either ... intersect two images all the way ... so they cut into each other by at least a third ... or clear them away from each other so there's plenty of breathing room ... So have either the blue dude cut into the silhouette of the coach ... or clear him away a bit ... just to make for a stronger silhouette ...

The foreground leg ... I think you can still push it a bit ... mess with bringing the size up so it's REALLY big and close to the camera ... also, what do you think of having both the foreground creatures legs in the shot framing the background action? So it's a shot through the legs? A little more oppressive and a little less Sergio Leone ... what do you think?

Anyway ... that's my two bits ... hope it helps ...

Great composition though ... I'd include it as a concept piece for sure ...

Cheers.

Al.

[Gamoron]

Thanks al_choi, you've given me lots to think about. I'll try it out and post on the next update. I might keep the foreground leg the way it is, but I'll try it your way.

Cheers,

[VShane]

Kirt, definatley has this bagged. The one thing that sticks out to me the most (I do art direction for 2 RPG gaming co.) Is this appears to be a color composition, the style has a feeling of cartooness, honestly this would need about another 10+ hours of work to get in the detail you see in most color game art.

Also, why is this a worms eye view? It doesn't correlate to me whats goin on immediatley, I can see there is conflict ensuing, but I am still puzzled why i am laying on the ground looking at this.

Now, if you had stuck in a human arm in the bottom like I (the viewer, was just whacked by this thing) it would really help out the perspective. Whats happening should be immediatley discerning the moment you glance at it (important for interesting and communicating to customers), I can tell the blue juggernaut is protecting the coach, but where he is placed I can't tell that he was pulling it, also there are no pulling bridles or harnesses on the blue critter.

Also never do "camera" diffusing on forground characters, it may work in comics and animation, but it won't fly in the illustration business, there is actually a huge opportunity there to define the muscle striations, scales, warts, wahtever on the leg especially with added dimension of backlighting on the leg.

Well, thats my personal perspective, hope some of it was helpful. BTW nice to see a background on a piece


:thumbsup:

[Gamoron]

Oh. I took me a minute to understand what you were saying about the foreground character. I get your meaning now Wacom_Knight, cheers. I'm going to apply what everyone has told me here and try to fix up the image.

For now here's an update, the next one will include the details that I overlook. I think I'll change the foreground character now to show more of it. This will also maybe change the angle that Wacom you said was annoying.

I'm starting to think I'm a very lazy and undisciplined artist.:rolleyes:


Doesn't look like much has changed. I'll replace this one with next one when completed. Sorry.

[VShane]

Well if your going to the trouble of taking suggestions and acting on them, your not Lazy at all, nor undisciplined, as you obviously have the drive to master the look of your new creation.

Did I say the perspective was annoying? Well I'll put it this way: YES, hehehe, just kidding:rolleyes:

One thing i am doing right now is creating more samples for my updates to Mainstream Book publishers (painting for the past 4 months now) I usually take about 80-127 hours per painting.
This allows for GREAT attention to detail, especially when I work 8.75 x 11.5 (bleed measurements) @ 400-600 dpi. But thats just me, traditional oil habits die hard, I still underpaint and use glazes in Painter.


What size do you work at?

[Gamoron]

Hi Wacom. Apparently I was working really big before, 4000x6000 pixels at 450dpi, and I was told print houses make images at 350dpi. I was told to work at lot smaller, so now this image is 2500 by maybe a 1000. I goofed actually and the dpi is only 150. I think I might bump it up considering you work a lot higher.

Update coming. Maybe not 'til later today I might have to chalk drawings on the street today. Never done it but money is really tight and those that do seem to do well.

[KOryH]

Looks good.
I did some dramatic lighting. I hope this gets you thinking about some things. I think Timo said some similar things in another thread.


http://korysdiner.homestead.com/files/FORUM/FIXES/concept1_kory.jpg

[OZ]

Use the first image...is more fresh and natural.:wavey:

[Gamoron]

Oh boy. Beautiful KOryH! I think I'd like to give something like that a try. I'm not very confident with that sort of lighting, so that's why I'm weak at it right now. That looks great though, I'm going to keep it for reference.

-OZ-, Cheers! I like it too but I think if I'm gonna put it into a portfolio I'd better tighten it up. I've been looking at concept work by other people and I realise I need finished tightened images. Sketches aren't gonna cut it. Your model was amazing, it's got my vote, if and when they allowus to vote. Or have they already? I've been away.

[Gamoron]

What do you guys think. I said I'd give it a try and so here it is. Lighting hasn't been changed too much, just composition.

Top or Bottom? I know it's sad I should make these decisions myself but... I'm here for help after all.

[plouffe]

nice image /idea/ story telling.. I like this.. Although i dont like that last update... personally i would keep the foreground element just the black leg but just painted a little better so we know its a leg. I dont really like that spikey figure thing you added Makes the shot less dynamic. ANyways whatever you decide to do.. looks cool. Make more of these!!

I should start doing some story telling like this... I always wanted to do stuff like this.

[MonkeyBoy]

How exciting, I go away for a few weeks and there's all this cool stuff going on when I get back.
Gamoron: it's looking great. Re. the last two images: the first is definately stronger because it gives the foreground character more power (mysterious and sinister, in contrast to the blue gu who's powerful and good/innocent) and also because it lines the two characters up along out line of sight more. (Not real composition science, just my $.02). But, to make that work you will need to bump up the detail on the foreground char (I agree with Wacom_knight). How about if his hand was also in the picture: either hanging down behind the leg (like an ape) or curling forward threateningly. I like the second one (excuse my quick sketches: I do have to get some work done today...) because it leads the eye in, and also reemphasises the sinister thing.

Keep working on it dude, it's getting there and it's definitely worth the effort.:)

[Ewan Lee]

Originally posted by Gamoron
Hi Wacom. Apparently I was working really big before, 4000x6000 pixels at 450dpi, and I was told print houses make images at 350dpi. I was told to work at lot smaller, so now this image is 2500 by maybe a 1000. I goofed actually and the dpi is only 150. I think I might bump it up considering you work a lot higher.


Hi

If you don't mind I would like to give you some pointers in general about portolios:

1. Don't put anything that you will have to defend/explain, if you find yourself defending your work it should not be in there, if you find yourself saying "it's a ruff...", "it's not finished...", "I did it in [very short amount of time]...". Your artwork should speak by itself.

2. the issue of cencept sketches, ruffs, sketches, it's a troubling one... there are 2 main scenarios:

a. The person(s) interviewing you no nothing of art (or maybe they are great self taught masters of a 3d package or something similar but they have no formal art training) and when they see a painting or a drawing just see an "unfinished" painting or drawing and do not know it's a sketch or a colour study and they will end up thinking that you just plain suck.

b. Your interviewer knows what he is doing and evaluates your work for what it is.

One solution for this problem is simply to set a "vocabulary" for you portfolio i.e. finished work (colour full page), concept paintings/colour studies (colour 2/6 on a page) sketches (b&w 4/6 on a page) and be consistent, if you put a finished painting on page 1 and a colour study on page 2(same size) you implicitly saying that for you they are the same quality fo work or at least that's the way you want them to be evaluated... not good.

One more thing you can do is set up a page with a finished work and some studies/thumbnails/colour studies on the opposing page, seeing the same composition in all the works they realize are various steps for the same piece and they can also get a feel of how you work (very important), after this first set up, if they have enought neurons between their ears, when they see BIG they think GOOD and when they see small the think work in progress.

This leads back to the dpi issue, if you are working on a concept sketch you should not really go over 4 by 6 inches (that small they even look better) and going over 300 dpi does not really makes sense... Anyway if you want to print you should think in terms of inches/centimeters not in pixels...

Anyway there is really nothing wrong with your work... on a concept sketch/painting what really matters is the "feeling/mood" it's just and idea, you should focus on the use of colour, compostion/framing... if you keep working on it you might end up with a finshed painting... I'm not sure if that's what you want...


cia

Ewan:shrug:

[Gamoron]

Amazing Input Guys! Thank-you! I'd like to hear more, but what's come in has been great.

1st plouffe. Cheers I'm going to go with the 1st, using MonkeyBoy's suggestion.

Which brings me to MonkeyBoy. Great Idea. Thanks man, I'll be adding a hand to define the character more. Glad you're back.

And finally Ewan. Thank you very much for the advice. You've answered questions that have lurked in my head for awhile, and I was unable to post them. Figured I wouldn't really get an answer. I'm going to tailor my portfolio to your specs.

Cheers guys.:beer:

[Gamoron]

Well I think I've done what everybody suggested. I think I just gotta bring out some more detail on the menacing foreground figure and adjust the lighting.
What do ya think?

edit: after looking at it on here. I'm going to desaturate and darken the grass, and lessen the reflected light on the Blue Guy(gotta think of a name). I think image ready may have screwed with the brightness and contrast.

[l_farley13_l]

Awesome Awesome feedback guys - really I just saved the page!

This one looks good - it just hits you and makes sense. (a good thing obviously)

A bit more detail in the heads (eyes, horns, hair) and hands couldn't hurt either. Also something to bring some uniqueness to the knee (badguy's) - it's shape looks a little ordinary. But the compostion is really much better.

It'd be nice to layer the trees and the mountains a little more too - not as much mixing of the two, and more atmosphere. And maybe play with their perpective.

Farley13

[bentllama]

I think you could get a stronger silhouette on that blue beast. Show some negative space between his right arm and his body.

You could add more tension and a feeling of domination of the foreground character if you slightly skew the pic. An oblique angle [I would pull the left side down/skew the right side up]

I generally like where this piece is going. :)

[OZ]

The last version is very good!I like it more than my beloved first!SMART STUFF 4 a portfolio.:thumbsup:

[Gamoron]

Thanks guys.:blush: I can't believe you guys still want changes! Ugh! I came here for crit and help and I've been getting it. Cheers! Now about those changes... |_farley13_| I felt I needed to add some more depth to those trees to. And more detail is especially needed, so I'll work on that.
bentllama I'm going to work on your suggestions too. I have to admit I don't want to skew the bad guy too much though.
-OZ- Cheers! I'm glad you like it!

Thanks guys input from all of you is turning me into a better artist!:thumbsup:

[Venom]

Gamoron
(I have your seagull texture MUHAHAHA!!)
try this

I think framing your boy and blue dude using the monster is tres cooler.


- Ciao

[Gamoron]

First of all Venom. I don't need that seagull texture anymore.:annoyed:
Secondly I think you should have added a big schlong to your edit of someone else's edit of my picture.
Sheesh, why'd I invite you to this forum!

[Venom]

Sorry for not crediting KOryH but I figured you ppl know that I'm not trying to piss Gamoron off. Just giving my two cents is all.

- Ciao

[Gamoron]

you're dead.

[Gamoron]

I want to thank everyone for their comments. I feel that I'm finished this to my liking and I don't plan on doing any more work to it. You guys are inspiring with all the great work I see here.

CHEERS!

[PhilOsirus]

It's very good! Definite improovement, super original, super cool!

[Kirt]

You did a really nice job at working with everyone's suggestions to improve this illustration. I turned out great! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

A thousand times better than the first image you posted. Good job! :beer:

[slime]

Hi!
Oops. I'm a little late for advice.
But I must say the picture got 100% better with everyones help.
Cheers!:thumbsup:

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