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View Full Version : New Terrance Walker Trailer Up


SirReality
07-23-2004, 06:55 PM
Well, hope this info doesn't flood Terrance's site too much, but he's put up his trailer for his Daniel project. His page is at www.studioartfx.com (http://www.studioartfx.com)

It reminds me of the animation he did in Understanding Chaos a little more than what he did for Shadowskin, and in my opinion looks a bit better than his previous works. I also thought it was interesting to note the the footage [which uses cellshading] really seems to avoid moving the camera in such a way as to break the anime-style of the work. I've read several posts here over the years about artists being displeased with the shadows on cellshaded objects when those objects were rotated... here Terrance avoids them quite well by not doing anything close to a rotation.

Keddy
07-23-2004, 07:50 PM
Oh..I don't like Terrence Walker's short films (Shadowskin and Understanding Chaos). They both are the worst short film i've ever seen cos their story are boring, their character animation are awful poor but i only like their cel shader which looks nice. I wish i should not buy it.

HowardM
07-23-2004, 09:50 PM
lol OK keddy....

that looks great!

his style is anime, its suppose to look like that!
:D

Carm3D
07-23-2004, 10:10 PM
I don't dig on the anime style, but I can see it was purposefully and well-replicated. The only thing that threw me was when I saw the guy in the suit.. I thought, "Hey, he's not in the right costume for 606 B.C.!" Only when he was nearly done talking did I realize it was the narrarator. :)

Perhaps the lip synch could be imrpoved so the viewer would make that connection sooner. Also some kind of transition (or change of lighting / style) between the B.C. and A.D. toons would also help deliniate them.

Other than that it's great.. -for people who dig on anime.

Celshader
07-23-2004, 10:12 PM
I've read several posts here over the years about artists being displeased with the shadows on cellshaded objects when those objects were rotated...
I've been happy with the shadows on celshaded models that I've rotated:
http://www.celshader.com/gallery/lore/lore-blink.mov
http://www.celshader.com/gallery/besm/shoujo-spin.mov
http://www.celshader.com/gallery/md/TKD-kara.mov

Of all his work, I like Terrence Walker's modeling best -- his models come much closer to capturing the look of a drawing than those of most LightWavers. In particular: Han, X and the armored soldiers. Daniel looks nice, too. :)

SirReality
07-23-2004, 10:46 PM
And, a tip o' me hat to Celshader who's work is as impressive as ever. Yes, in almost any thread where there are complaints about shadowing I believe you have posted helpful comments, and I have certainly spent quite a bit of time at your website whenever I am in the mood to do anything cel [I'm currently debating about celshading my current project...]! As an aside, has anyone heard anything about future plans for celshaded.com?

<philosophizing>
I think most of any complaining has had more to do with the final effect not being "anime" enough for a given artist. But, how anime is a 3D work? Both anime and manga have traditionally been 2D forms with a huge emphasis on quick production with reasonable quality. I think 3D anime is a somewhat new animal and what we expect of the form with evolve as it is used more and "standardized" to some extent or another.
</philosophizing>

faulknermano
07-24-2004, 07:32 AM
<philosophizing>
I think most of any complaining has had more to do with the final effect not being "anime" enough for a given artist. But, how anime is a 3D work? Both anime and manga have traditionally been 2D forms with a huge emphasis on quick production with reasonable quality. I think 3D anime is a somewhat new animal and what we expect of the form with evolve as it is used more and "standardized" to some extent or another.
</philosophizing>
what do you think of anime lipsynching? i notice, from the trailer, that they mouths just open and close.

i heard from a friend of mine who does traditional 2D (though not exactly anime per se) that the reason japanese cartoons just open and close their mouths is because they an allotted number of cels to work with. they cant go 'overbudget' hence a lot of strong, but nonmoving poses and alot of play with the camera and backgrounds, in order to save cels.

but with 3D this isnt a problem anymore (unless we are talking about render times - but the comparison isnt realistic). i'm not sure why mr walker decided on simplifying lipsynching when his medium did not inhibit him from doing so.

HowardM
07-24-2004, 03:21 PM
lol, guys, its a style?!

i disagree, 3D anime is not going to change into some new form of anime...its just replicating the original 2D style, which Terrance has done perfectly!

SirReality
07-24-2004, 07:32 PM
I strongly agree that Tarrence does a good job sticking to a 2D anime style which I believe is his intent and it works well into the way he produces his projects.

But I also have to wonder at the possibilities of some evolution with this style and 3D. I think that Faulknermano has a point that today's electronic media has different constraints than what anime has had in the past. A budget on cels is quite different than deciding to do work at 30 or 15 frames per second and what resolution to use. We're burning frames even if we're just holding a powerful pose, so for us the desire to do that seems to be a stylistic one not an external requirement.

I'm sure when I do celshaded work I butcher a true anime style mostly through my own ignorance of that style... which might make HowardM's point... there's 3D anime and then there's celshading. One does not necessarily equal the other.

:shrug:

Celshader
07-24-2004, 07:48 PM
what do you think of anime lipsynching?

In anime, I've only seen genuine lip-synch to the Japanese vocal tracks in Akira and Spriggan. Maybe Tree of Palme and Katsuhiro Otomo's Memories have it, too, but I'm not sure.

Mimicking one's favorite cartoons is no stranger than CG folks mimicking reality or stop-motion or claymation, though. Ya gotta follow yer muse. :arteest:

Celshader
07-24-2004, 07:52 PM
there's 3D anime and then there's celshading. One does not necessarily equal the other.:shrug:

Then there's celshaded 3D anime (http://www.advfilms.com/catalog/DetailsMagicalPlayCompleteCollection.asp)... :applause:

SplineGod
07-24-2004, 10:38 PM
One thing Jen has pointed out to me in the past and I totally agree with is that there isnt really an "anime" style. Different artists and directors have many different styles in japan just like here in the USA or elsewhere. I totally agree that the main reason for the lipsync the way it is in many japanese productions is due to budgetary constraints. The same thing happens here. Cartoon characters have 4 fingers because a studio could save thousands of dollars by removing one off each hand of each character. The same for things like the number of buttons on Jiminy Crickets vest. By removing one button they could save $50,000.00 which in those days was a lot of money. Many things we see are not done because of artistic choices but because of limitations of time, money, resources etc. Very few artists want to pare back their vision. :)

lwbob
07-25-2004, 01:05 AM
Oh..I don't like Terrence Walker's short films (Shadowskin and Understanding Chaos). They both are the worst short film i've ever seen cos their story are boring, their character animation are awful poor but i only like their cel shader which looks nice. I wish i should not buy it.
Wow first post and you start out slamming someone's work. While you are entitled to your opinion maybe next time you could have enough tact to wait until a few more people post.

faulknermano
07-25-2004, 03:12 AM
In anime, I've only seen genuine lip-synch to the Japanese vocal tracks in Akira and Spriggan. Maybe Tree of Palme and Katsuhiro Otomo's Memories have it, too, but I'm not sure.

Mimicking one's favorite cartoons is no stranger than CG folks mimicking reality or stop-motion or claymation, though. Ya gotta follow yer muse. :arteest:
i actually find that strange too.

what i do like about some stop-motion movies is the lighting and the texturing are crisp (because they're real :) ). i think maybe that should be the target, not so much with stop-motion per se.

i dunno. just my opinion.

faulknermano
07-25-2004, 03:17 AM
Wow first post and you start out slamming someone's work. While you are entitled to your opinion maybe next time you could have enough tact to wait until a few more people post.
i find nothing tact-ful about waiting for more people to post first. besides, he wasnt flaming anyone, just giving his reasons for not liking it. at least he had a reason. :)

SirReality
07-25-2004, 04:35 PM
Then there's celshaded 3D anime (http://www.advfilms.com/catalog/DetailsMagicalPlayCompleteCollection.asp)... :applause:
Um... wow. You never know quite what you're going to get when you follow a link to anime. The kid in me liked the bright colors and pretty cartoons... and MY kids kept wandering by asking "What are you playing?" while I was watching the trailer.

And Celshader has a little write-up about how much of that production is 3D celshaded which answered any questions I was just about to ask, so... I have to agree...

There's celshaded 3D anime (http://www.advfilms.com/catalog/DetailsMagicalPlayCompleteCollection.asp)!

wow.

Celshader
07-25-2004, 04:52 PM
*blush* I didn't even know that link had a trailer attached to it! I looked at the trailer, and there's only TWO shots from the 100% celshaded OAV -- the rest of the characters in that trailer are hand-drawn.

THIS is the Japanese trailer for the 100% celshaded Magical Play OAV, which is included in the Region 1 DVD along with the hand-drawn episodes. Hash: AM for the characters; LightWave 3D for the backgrounds:
http://www.anime-int.com/works/magic/3d/ova/mahotrailer.html

---

Also, here's some more 100% celshaded anime:

Appleseed (feature film; decent-sized budget)
http://www.apple.co.jp/quicktime/trailers/appleseed_large.html

URDA (independent film by a group of folks; Hash:AM+LightWave 3D)
http://www.romanov.x0.com/URDA/
http://homepage2.nifty.com/romanov/URDADVDY2.mpg

There's also a TV show called Platonic Chain:
ACM Presentation (http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=945191.945241&dl=portal&dl=ACM&type=series&idx=945191&part=Proceedings&WantType=Proceedings&title=International%20Conference%20on%20Computer%20Graphics%20and%20Interactive%20Techniques)
Screenshots (http://pwot.org/anime/platonic-chain)

SirReality
07-25-2004, 05:45 PM
Alright... well, wow for the correct trailer, too!

There is definately something different between the two trailers [maybe this is muddied by the fact they are quite different], but the 3D one looks just fine to me. I think I noticed a rotation character scene [oh, no, this again...] where the camera must be orbiting the character because the shadows aren't changing across the character while it is happening. One of my favorite elements found in some of the anime I watch is the camera spinning around a character like that, and here is one place where I think 3D might just be a little bit superior to 2D.

And, on the non-traditional 3D front I put up the following link: www.insaint.com/3dcg (http://www.insaint.com/3dcg)

On the above page you will find an experimental piece which I was playing with as an alternative to celshading. The animation runs 10 seconds, it's an mpeg, it's about 10 megabytes, centers around a "ship" entering a "jump gate/point/whatever", and there are at least a hundred things I would change about the clip, but they aren't important. The experiment was more about the "moving comic book" look. Questions, comments welcome.

http://www.insaint.com/3dcg/images/cgtship.jpg

Keddy
07-25-2004, 10:35 PM
Wow first post and you start out slamming someone's work. While you are entitled to your opinion maybe next time you could have enough tact to wait until a few more people post.I disagree with u about it. Do u expect me to wait until a few people to post first before me? I don't think so. I can post whenever i want cos that's just my opinion.

Of course, i don't like his 2 short films cos of only story and character animation, but i never said i don't like Terrence Walker's his everything work. I respect him and he done a good job cos i still like his celshader and models which looks nice :) If you like his films, so it is fine. No problem with me. I don't mean to be rude or slam him but it is my opinion. I apologise if i have offended anyone else this was not my intention.

SirReality- Hey dude. Thanks for PM me. No, I haven't seen Timothy Albee's Ghost Warrior yet but i have seen his tralier which looks very good. I'll put it on my 'To Watch' List cos i always wanted to watch any short film which it done by only lightwave :)
Have you seen the F8 movie by Jason Wen? For me, his best short film i've ever seen in Lightwave. They are beautiful and unbelievable. His film's f8 was completed over the course of 3 and 1/2 years!!!

P.S. Sorry about my bad english.

SirReality
07-25-2004, 11:11 PM
I have to say that I agree F8 was very good. Another one-person project with pretty amazing results. I also found Akryls [http://akryls.free.fr/] amazing to watch.

ArtisticVisions
07-26-2004, 11:22 PM
So far I'm looking forward to Terrence's next work, since I've been wait quite a while for him to start a "real" anime project since Shadowskin (yeah, he did the manga World of Hartz, but I wasn't as impressed with as I was with his animations).Terrence, along with several other individuals, was one of the key reason I became involved in CG animation: if they could create their own "anime", why couldn't I?

Daniel certainly shows promise and I'll continue to observe Terrence on his progress.

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