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Array
07-30-2002, 07:10 PM
On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 04:38:34PM +1000, Donald Grahame wrote:
> While I sure don't know all the facts, and probably never will, I do
> know Entropy once existed, and I'm now its gone because Exluna was
> sold by its owners, including Larry Gritz, to Nvidia.

Let me nip this one in the bud before it gets out of hand.

The deal with NVIDIA is quite old -- the "definitive agreement" (i.e.,
contractual point of no return) was last December, and we've been
operating as one company ever since. The plan for the merger was not
only to continue our efforts with Entropy, but to "turbo charge" them.
The fact that nobody could detect any change for several months after
the merger is, I think, a good indication that it was not disruptive
to our mission, our business, or our products.

The disappearance of Entropy and BMRT are in no way causally related
to the merger of the companies.

-- lg

--
Larry Gritz Exluna

<admin edit: removed Larry's email out of courtesy>

Leonard
07-30-2002, 07:18 PM
The NVIDIA acquisition is old news. I don't know why everyone got so worked up over it.

What DID surprise me was the eventual demise of Entropy as it truly was a fantastic production tool. NVIDIA obviously will be finding ways to incorporate Exluna's IP and research into future product lines. It will be interesting.

I still cannot comprehend why BMRT was made unavailable as it helped beginners and students grasp Renderman.

L.

Array
07-30-2002, 07:32 PM
i think that PRMan will eventually stagnate without competition from Exluna. PRMan had no major features added for two years until entropy came out. Now we are all waiting for PRMan 11 (which is a ripoff of mental ray IMO). But the pricing scheme of PRMan is ludicrouse. At $5000 per cpu, it costs $20,000 for a quad cpu workstation to take full advantage of the product. And now without BMRT, students have no way of learning the Renderman standard.

MrMunkily
07-30-2002, 08:28 PM
I still have BMRT. can it be redistributed?

frog
07-30-2002, 08:49 PM
Not unless you want Steve Jobs after you!!! :D

beaker
07-30-2002, 11:54 PM
>>i think that PRMan will eventually stagnate without competition from Exluna. PRMan had no major features added for two years until entropy came out. Now we are all waiting for PRMan 11 (which is a ripoff of mental ray IMO).

Sorry but this is bogus information. Prman 10 was a total rewrite of Prman from the ground up. Pixar didn't pull it out of their hat like a rabbit simply because of entropy. They have been telling us about version 10 since siggraph 98 before Larry had even left to form Exluna. There is always a 1-2 year period that happends when any company decides to rewrite their software: Maya, XSI, etc... When Maya 2.5 first came out with IPR, pixar said at their users group meeting that they have a similar solution comming out for prman(3 years before IRMA came out). Prman 11 is not a rip off of MR. You add raytracing and Gi and it is a ripoff? Wrong! Obviously alot of people have been asking for features like this and pixar gave it to them. Many people at film companies had allready got this feature through a hack of using BMRT as a rayserver to PRman. Also there is other competition too Prman(Render dot c), just entropy was a big deal because it was made by alot of people that were heads of Prman development at Pixar.

>>But the pricing scheme of PRMan is ludicrouse. At $5000 per cpu, it costs $20,000 for a quad cpu workstation to take full advantage of the product.

Yes it would be nice if they lowered their prices but they still have the advantage of being 5x faster than anything out there and 75% of the film companies use their software. Entropy was nice competition but it was still much slower than Prman. Also if your buying like 10-20+ licenses of prman you arent actually going to pay retail for it. Most 3d companies are small enough where you can wheel and deal on the price of software.

>>And now without BMRT, students have no way of learning the Renderman standard.

Yes it does suck that they got rid of BMRT but there are plenty of other renderman renderers that are free that students can learn with.
3Delight: http://www.3delight.com/
Aqsis: http://www.aqsis.com/
Gman: http://gman-toolkit.sourceforge.net/
Mirage: http://www.mirage-3d.de/index2.html

Commercial renderman renders with a demo:
Render dot c: http://www.dotcsw.com/rdc.html (resolution crippled for the demo)
Air: http://www.sitexgraphics.com/html/air.html (has a light number limitation)

Array
07-31-2002, 12:16 AM
i say PRMan11 is a ripoff of mentalray not because it adds GI, but because of the method used for generating GI. They have a feature called gather (sounds familiar right?) which (you guessed it) calculates radiance based on the colors of other objects in the scene.

ambient-whisper
07-31-2002, 02:23 AM
if this is the most efficient way of doing this particular task then i see why they couldnt use a similar approach. they arent reusing MR code for it. and they might do a few things extra that might even be an evolved version of what MR has. you never know :)

beaker
07-31-2002, 02:48 AM
Thats lame, simply because they call it to gather means they ripped off the same technology from MR. You ever think that Gather is a technical term used in radiosity by all GI renderers. It is a method for speeding up the entire GI process and you can read about it here:
http://www.mpi-sb.mpg.de/units/ag4/areas/Globil/

Also search the web for Global Illumination and Gather. There are hundreds of pages with info on it that are not MR. MR just called it Final Gathering probably because it sounded more catchy.

KayosIII
07-31-2002, 05:39 AM
For wings Users who have been using BMRT to do their rendering I reccomend Aqsis (link a few messages up). PaulG the creator is now a Wings user so we might be able to get the two apps working together well some time in the near future.

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