Teaching yourself Maya ... What Structure?

[zachgrachan]

can't promise I'll answer all of 'em, but I'll hit a few at least...


Order of operations:
I recommend doing this in the order productions go in. Modeling, UV mapping, texturing, lighting, rendering. animation gets done concurrently with stand-in low resolution characters. This is all different for every production of course, but if you don't have a character modeled- you can't animate or texture him.

Specialized course:
Depends on how you learn - I do much better with enforced deadlines so I spent $30K on school (full sail in orlando). Some people just need to play with the software for a while. most are in between. I do regret spending so much on it now, though.

Books/DVDs:
oh....too many to list. Maraffi's (?sp) character setup book, Gould's MEL and API book, Wilkins' MEL book, the Frank and Ollie book - something like Illusion of Life, more that I can't think of off the top of my head.

Frustration:
Everyone hits that...just ignore it like it's a pile of dirty dishes you don't want to wash... I still don't have a job (in the industry) and I'm pretty frustrated myself - just keep sending out resumes. Good luck!

[peanut]

If your new to 3D, start by learning how to model, move on to texturing tryout animation/rigging and end with rendering

[Fahad]

thanks guys for your replies, i will certainly look into the suggested approach. if anyone has any further feedback i'd be greatful.

thanks

[umjetnik]

you dont need to learn how to model....if your primary interest is animation, dynamics or whatever go staight for that. I know alot of good animators who cant model well at all because they consider themselves animators. There are plenty of downloadable rigeed/modelled characters to choose from if you want to dive in to animation. It all depends on what interests you the most.

I would suggest the learning tools books from alias for beginners, IMO they are a much better than the majority of the hordes of Maya books that are out there.



just my opinion.

[nottoshabi]

I would suggest the learning tools books from alias for beginners, IMO they are a much better than the majority of the hordes of Maya books that are out there.

just my opinion.



Start with a book that goes into everything. From modeling, texturing,animation, etc. You would not know what you would like to do until you get used to the program. So make sure you get to experience everything. For example, when I was in your fustrated possion. I thought modeling was the shznit, but as I went from cv to cv to make something take shape. I soon drop it and went to texturing and lighting. Just a small techincal problem stoped me from doing that. My colored blindess. :cool: So went to animation and stuck with that for like 2 years. But since I figured out that an animators limitaion is a rig. I learned how to rig, got intrusted into the techincal aspect of maya not as much as a animation tool. Now I rig mostly, but I still get to animate. Not as much as I would like but I still do. To make a long story short. Get your feet wet with everything, before you spend money on more books or classes. Just to find out that all you want to do is animate. :bounce:

Good Luck :thumbsup:

[samiujan]

Hi

I started learning Maya on my own about a year ago... I seriously believe you need to go to a good school in order to learn the tool and technique... I am in Pakistan and finding a half-decent school is impossible around my town atleast....

tool and technique are 2 different things... u need to know both in order to make something useful.. e.g. learning how to use a pencil won't guarantee a job as an author... the reverse won't work either.... that is why you need to go to a school or do free/almost-free apprentice work with a noted artist or studio....

this IS artwork and anything below excellent will ruin your chances of getting a good job... so beware...

the best way, IMHO, is to do the exercises in "Learning Maya" from end to end... they will help you up and about.... these will also give you and idea what 3D artistry is like... lots of work... very very little play....

also, try and watching (and downloading if u want, if you do a "view source" and can see the movie link) the movies on www.digital-tutors.com (http://www.digital-tutors.com) ......... especially the "Neex" character rigging series... that is absolutely invaluable if u r in a mood to see how things in Maya/3D CGI work .........

hope that helps.........

[Fahad]

thank you everyone for the replies as they have been most helpful.

I guess it's just a matter of patience. I'm going to look into some books that have been suggested, and i'm eying the gnomon dvds too. Btw I have already been through "Introducing Maya 5: 3D for Beginners" and i want to know where to go from there.

my interest in maya isn't necessarily to get a job in cg, this is after all, a hobby. but it's a hobby i want to take very seriously. i want to make art in 3d, whether it's animated, or just a still. yes i know this sort of thing takes time, as i've seen many people who've been using these types of programs for several years, and are still struggling.

my frustration is, that although i have done nearly all the tutorials accompanying Maya, I have only now reached a very basic level, and i'm finding it hard to progress. I want to do more than what I can now, and what I can do now isn't really good at all. the tutorials i find, as i have said are a bit vague, certain aspects are ignored or rushed through.

with that said, i think one has to pay to advance. i'm not considering formal schooling, but more rather a part-time training course, though none seem to be around anywhere near here. so my next, and i think better, choice would be to go with dvd training. like the gnomon series, since they seem to be getting all the hype from people who have experienced them.

but if anyone with experience in teaching him/her self to a intermediate to advanced level without spending much money, please let me know what you did to achieve this.


Once again, I thank you all ever so much for your advice.

Fahad

[nottoshabi]

but if anyone with experience in teaching him/her self to a intermediate to advanced level without spending much money, please let me know what you did to achieve this.

Fahad

Find something you like. Modeling, Texturing, Lighting, Rigging, Animation or Rendering.
Once you find that out. Then start working with people over the net. Answer as many questions as you can, read everything containing the field you like. Then depending on your learning curve maybe in 6 months, you will see if you like what you do.

[Fahad]

thank you all for your advice.

i'll certainly keep learning what i can. i just want to reach the point where i can produce something nice :)

oh well ... thanks again.

edit:

btw nottoshabi (http://www.cgtalk.com/member.php?u=2036), dig the avatar :thumbsup:

[meatpuppet]

first my background, so you know where the answer is coming from...

1. in high-school taught myself a little video (shooting, editing, etc.)

2. got a job at a small video post house. stayed late at night and taught meyself non-linear editing and after effects.

3. got a better job at a better video post house. taught myself a little 3d (infini-d) more after effects and more video.

4. got an even better job at an even better post house. taught myself lightwave (well, struggled to learn very little would be more accurate).

5. got a better job at a television station. taught myself more lightwave, more after effects.

6. left to be an internet billionare and after a while realized i NEED to be doing visual effects for a living. decided school was the best bet. i spent YEARS teaching myself and got as far as chrome logos flying through space.

7. enrolled at vfs (www.vfs.com (http://www.vfs.com/)). graduated.

8. one day after finishing got a visual effects job working on a pretty cool movie i can't talk about...



so your questions...

First, What should I learn first, second, third? What should I concentrate on as a total beginner?

artistic ability.

draw, sculpt, paint, do 3d too of course but never forget your making pictures. you should be able to make good pictures (and just as importantly be able to intelligently analyze what makes a good picture) so this should be your top priority. everybody wants to hire artists not button-pushers

Second, I hear that books are invaluable, what collection of books do you think a beginner may benefit from the most?

the only books i've seen that i actually thought were worth buying are the 'inspired' series.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/series/-/88981/paperback/ref=pd_serl_books/102-2254931-9360920

Third, Is a specialized course a waste of money?

going to vfs was the best career desision i've made yet. i learned more in the first couple of weeks than i had been able to teach myself in years.

Fourth, Would it be possible to follow a curriculum of a well established art school, or training center, provided you have the same books they teach and if so, does anyone know of such a curriculum and the books taught?

i very seriously doubt it. one of themost valuable aspects of formal training is having experienced, knowledgable people there to ask questions. you get stuck on step 3 of an online tutorial and never have any idea why because there's no one there to ask.

I have read about the Gnomon DVDs and I'm thinking about purchasing them. Though another question arises, in what order do I purchase them, and should I purchase one at a time? or two at a time? or the whole collection at once?

i'm not familure with them...



as someone who has struggled like you are i can completely understand your frustration. i would recommend formal training, there's no better way to learn what you want to know to to be taught, right?

good luck and stick with it. it took me almost ten years to get where i am but it's more that worth it. getting paid (quite well, thank you) to do what you'd be doing at home anyway is just about the coolest damn thing in the world.

whew, long post. hope it helps.

[nottoshabi]

@meatpupet. Great story :buttrock: You almost made me :cry: ... :cool: almost.. :wip:

[onlooker]

[part 1]you dont need to learn how to model....if your primary interest is animation, dynamics or whatever go staight for that. I know alot of good animators who cant model well at all because they consider themselves animators. There are plenty of downloadable rigeed/modelled characters to choose from if you want to dive in to animation. It all depends on what interests you the most.

[part 2]I would suggest the learning tools books from alias for beginners, IMO they are a much better than the majority of the hordes of Maya books that are out there.



just my opinion.

I have to agree with both parts of that quote. But before starting with part 2 - First to go the gnomon workshop, and buy THIS (http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/int01.html) 2 disc set for $25. It's the best $25 you'll ever spend in Maya training. It's the perfect starting point for someone who is just starting in Maya. Then use the tutorials in the help section of the Maya application itself. After spending $25, and using the free resources from within Maya then get Learning Maya 6 foundation (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1894893611/103-5184132-5597461?v=glance) from alias. Those learning Maya books are the best beginning books on Maya, and I have a ton of Maya books,. Well maybe not a ton, but at least 100 lbs of books on Maya. Every one of them is perfectly written, and laid out intelligently.

[Fahad]

thanks everyone for the posted replies .. they have been helpful to me and I hope a lot more newbies out there.

meatpuppet:

your reply was really interesting ... i've taken into account a several points you have mentioned. though i'm not considering an actual academic degree in computer graphics, you do raise a good point about formal training, and i will definately try and find that locally.

onlooker:

i will definately look into the DVD set you suggested... as for the book, i have been through most of "introducing maya 5: 3d for beginners" by Dariush Derakhshani, it has been helpful to familiarize myself with maya through the last few months. i've seen the contents of the book you suggested, and they seem to be similar. perhaps not?

with that said, am i ready to dive into these books:Learning Maya 6 | Modeling (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1894893719/ref=pd_sim_books_1/102-7754326-1369739?v=glance&s=books), Learning Maya 6 | Character Rigging (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1894893670/ref=pd_sim_books_2/102-7754326-1369739?v=glance&s=books), Learning Maya 6 | Dynamics (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1894893697/ref=pd_sim_books_3/102-7754326-1369739?v=glance&s=books), Learning Maya 6 | Rendering (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1894893689/ref=pd_sim_books_4/102-7754326-1369739?v=glance&s=books)?

is this the next step to take? or are there steps I should take before diving into those books?


again, thanks to everyone, it's been a real help for people knowing what you're going through.

Fahad

[DuttyFoot]

thasts a good start, when i was teaching myself i bought those books too

[Fahad]

thasts a good start, when i was teaching myself i bought those books too
you may just have made my life a bit easier

thanks

[DuttyFoot]

your welcome

[xedod]

My opinion is that you should first develop your artistic skills. If you want to become a 3D Artist, animator, shaderdeveloper,... you'll need at least basic artist skills.

When I was at Alias|Wavefront (Gent, Belgium) a couple of years ago to do some research, all the guys working there had also good artistic skills. And an artist is someone who always completes his work to the points.

And here is a very valuable lesson for many newcomers: when making your first models, animations,... on yourself or using a booktutorial as a guideline, then you should complete your work until it's done, really done. Something you can be proud of, even it is just your first experience with it. Finishing your work will teach you much! You'll experiment with several things in maya and beyond (artistic skills).

So, FINISH your work to the points and you'll learn very much from that.

A piece of advice for animation: I have the book 'The animators survival kit' by Richard Williams and it covers 'classical' animation using pencil, but goes way beyond it. You'll learn what animation is about, how it consists, what you should know, well, almost everything you should know about animation. If you're interested in animation, this is a MUST have book!
Here's the link to amazon.com bookstore: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0571202284/qid=1090504511/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-3998729-2463238?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Hopefully this was helpfull.

[Kael]

Play with it for a while... see what you can do by pressing some buttons. try dynamics that’s fun...

then start with modeling, uv and texturing, lighting and rendering. in between texturing and lighting you can try some animation... controlling bones is must sometimes for a good still image so do that first in animation area. Then try some Riggin which is prepping the character for animation and do some animations. Now this is completely another level! Personally my favorite....

AFTER THAT. Realize that the software is just your tool and that you can actually jump between different software with relative ease(MAX, MAYA, XSI are all very alike). Be fully aware that the tool will do nothing if you don’t tell it to.... DO NOT I repeat DO NOT make the typical mistake of believing that certain software will make you do better than the other artists. A 2d animator can nock down a Maya specialist in a sec... or so seems to think Pixar.


Good luck to the newbies...

-Andrew

PS: If you suddenly realize that you are an eminent artist and the future of 3d. Please let me know and I'll hire you...:deal:

[Fahad]

DO NOT I repeat DO NOT make the typical mistake of believing that certain software will make you do better than the other artists.


I wouldn't dream of doing that ... after all, i've been through every downloadable demo of most of the major 3d apps out there, till i found maya to be the most comfortable. i will look into the progression of subjects as you've suggested.


PS: If you suddenly realize that you are an eminent artist and the future of 3d. Please let me know and I'll hire you...:deal:

Well, now that you mention it ... :scream:


heh ... thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

[elvis75k]

6 years ago i decide to migrate my free time to maya. 3dStudio Max was crashy and bugged...
Now i have one think to say.. Want to learn maya? You have only to open it, made maya your screensaver and draw a fake tattoo on the shoulder.. Draw the maya logo in the bus and talk about maya with your friend + girlfriend.. Read the manual and try to follow the tutorials on the web. Afaik - uninstall all the other 3d app like max and wings .... Know what you want from it and buy video tutorials! The gnomonschool is the goal! Don't waste your time turning back with the other 3d app. Follow your senses like me.. The time will pay that..
Don't go out saturday night.. Imagine that by yourself you can learn more than other "graduate" - Sorry if my english is like Start->Shut down windows... hehe! :)

[Fahad]

6 years ago i decide to migrate my free time to maya. 3dStudio Max was crashy and bugged...
Now i have one think to say.. Want to learn maya? You have only to open it, made maya your screensaver and draw a fake tattoo on the shoulder.. Draw the maya logo in the bus and talk about maya with your friend + girlfriend.. Read the manual and try to follow the tutorials on the web. Afaik - uninstall all the other 3d app like max and wings .... Know what you want from it and buy video tutorials! The gnomonschool is the goal! Don't waste your time turning back with the other 3d app. Follow your senses like me.. The time will pay that..
Don't go out saturday night.. Imagine that by yourself you can learn more than other "graduate" - Sorry if my english is like Start->Shut down windows... hehe! :)
in other words, never give up? gotcha! :)

[Gremlin]

I'm really interested in the same thing, as this is helpful to me too...
I just graduated from highschool (its the post-graduation summer currently) and I'm not going to college (unless you want to call gnomon, academy of art university, etc colleges) and I'm trying to figure out the best way to get the training I need without having to pay the huge $35K fees required to go to these schools. My grades were never too astounding, but I wasnt too applied to that side of education, I was always more concerned with art and music... so I can bank on the SAT (1400 atleast) if that would somehow get me a grant/scholarship, or some sort of monetary help... but I'm trying to figure out my future as well.

I've already been self teaching myself for 3 years, and Ive gotten some really nice feedback over the years (specially recently) and my work is decent (ill be 18 in october) and my artistic background is ive been drawing since I was three and whatever else up until now. My cousin (which I just found this out, somehow) works at pixar, who I need to give a call, and I'm wondering if there is someway I can get in on that somehow, and also, my boss's wife (I do graphic design for a small company) has a friend who works at EA games, so sweet... it seems like I know people who know people, but I still need more training, I may be pretty good for my age/skill level (not neccesarily) but I still need more training, I know that for a fact.

Does anyone suggest that I put together a demo reel of what I can currently do? and apply for internships/scholarships or something with that? I know some company's will pay-for/pay-you-back for formal training....

basically, I'm trying to get into the industry, and if I dont have to spend 35K on a school that would be great... I'm trying to save my bank account from death :wise: (its almost at 50K) and rather save it for later in life for when maybe I'm trying to get situation, or a car, or maybe investing, etc.... (granted "investing" in my "future" by paying for school is acknolwedged, its just, I'm trying to see if there is a way to not have to pay for it, or bypass it or something)



anyone have any feedback for me? I think my idea for a demo reel of my current skill level is a good idea (i just came up with that while posting on the board)

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