Tons of Questions

[nothinman]

its a very usefull tool that helps you cut your polys

[ilasolomon]

in the other word, that's a very good option that assist you to
devide your faces! ;) :scream:

[turtos]

Nice, I'll feed on that till the next question arise...:beer:

[sumatra]

What is the difference between slice plane and slice modifier?
i know how to use 'em both but in theory slice modifier what exactly does?
If i slice my polygons and meshsmooth'em i dont have the same result as adding a slice modifier before meshsmooth.., maybe slice modifier is cutting the element instead of the polygons???

[toonman]

The main difference (aside from the obvious) is that the slice plane will also refine hidden edges, whereas the modifier will not. Because of this, you might want to use the mod as often as possible... cheers!

[turtos]

Second question: What does welding do? Does i t like tone up the body? and when they say no vertices within threshold it means wat? I selected the vertices but the same mesage appears... :bounce:

Thx in advance...:p

[Fede]

Hey...

Welding is rather simple, what it does, is it welds " takes to vertices and molds them toghether to make one" in the spot where the destination vertex was.

Hope that made sense.

Not sure what you are saying by toning the body, but it can connect to objects to create a body.

In the vertex roll out you can specify the threshold between vertices meaning the distance between two vertices which is used for calculating wich vertices should be welded or not.

In context, if you mirror half a face and attach the two so that you can weld them you would select both sets of vertices on either edges of the faces and depending on the distance between the vertices you would have to increase the threshold so that they would weld.

To weld individual vertices i would suggest turning on the 3d snap set to vertex and weld target in the weld spinner so that you can accuratley weld vertices.

I hope i did not confuse you more.

[tazmanian]

my question is .......when i use CUT tools for my modelling....
when i cut a slice its cuts only the other face of my model .....
im getting angry when i going to cut somthing....
:shrug:

[Marcel]

my question is .......when i use CUT tools for my modelling....
when i cut a slice its cuts only the other face of my model .....
im getting angry when i going to cut somthing....


Use the hide/unhide functions of the editable mesh to hide the polygons you do not want to be cut.
Makes your live a lot easier.

Another difference between slice and slice modifier is that you can animate the result, and have options to split, refine, remove the mesh.

Not that we do not like helping you, but you can look up lots of things in the Help files, it'll be much quicker than asking us.

[turtos]

I read the tutorials but sometimes its better to see another person's viewpoint and explaination to understand better...

Anyway, new question:

Question 3:
Is there a way to delete away vertices without the polygon dissappearing? U know when u cut and model and u want to cut down on the vertices to look neater... Any way/method?

[samhodge]

the best way to neaten up is to weld any spare verties

or delete teh verts that you dont want and rebuld the polygon

is six of one and half a dozen of the other

if anybody knows a better way let me know

you will also want to learn about hiding edges to form faces

[turtos]

Fourth question:
What's the number for next to the selected button under the wielding properties?

[Chris]

Do you mean the threshold for 'weld selected'? Thats the range at which selected vertices will get welded together. For example a value of .1 will weld together vertices that are real close, a value of 1000 will probably weld together every selected vertice on the object. RTFM ;)

[turtos]

Oh, so that's what it means... That helps, thanks...

[sumatra]

Marcel yes i know that, my question was "... in theory slice modifier what exactly does?
If i slice my polygons and meshsmooth'em i dont have the same result as adding a slice modifier before meshsmooth.., maybe slice modifier is cutting the element instead of the polygons?..."

[turtos]

Can anyone provide me with a tutorial on face modeling? Preferably a simple one to start me off with.

[turtos]

Sorry, fourth question:
Can anyone tell me the difference between instance, reference and copy? Can't seem to differecaite them...:hmm:

[Marcel]

Copying an object

Every time you duplicate an object, you choose one of three methods for cloning the original object. For all three methods, the original and clone are identical at the geometry level. Where the methods vary is in the way they handle modifiers (for example, Bend or Twist).

Copy method: Creates a completely separate clone from the original. Modifying one has no effect on the other.

Instance method: Creates a completely interchangeable clone of the original. Modifying an instanced object is the same as modifying the original.

Reference method: Creates a clone dependent on the original. Modifying the original affects the referenced object, while modifying the referenced object has no effect on the original.

Depending on the method used to create them, cloned objects are called copies, instances, or references.

The following discussion focuses on how you might use these methods.

Copies
Copies are the most familiar kind of clone object. Copied objects are completely independent of the original object, and therefore analogous to a precise physical copy.

Example of Using Copied Objects
If you modeled a basic head shape and wanted to create a group of individual characters, you would probably make a copy of the basic head shape each time you started a new character. You could then model an individual nose, mouth, and other features.

Instances
Instances are alike not only in geometry, but also in every other way as well.

When you change one instance by applying a modifier, for example, all the other instances change with it.

Within the program, instances derive from the same master object. What you're doing ("behind the scene") is applying a single modifier to a single master object. In the viewport, what you see as multiple objects are multiple instances of the same definition.

Example of Using Instanced Objects
If you wanted to create a school of swimming fish, you might begin by making many instanced copies of a single fish. You could then animate the swimming motion by applying a Ripple modifier to any fish in the school. The whole school would swim with exactly the same motions.

References
References are like "one-way" instances. Referenced objects are based on the original object, as are instances, and can also have their own unique modifiers.

Any modification made to the original object is passed on to its references, but any modification made to a reference is not passed back to the original.

The "one-way" effect is useful, since you can maintain an original that will affect all its references, while the references themselves can take on individual characteristics.

Example of Using Referenced Objects
In the example of modeling heads, you might want to keep a family resemblance in your characters. You could model basic features on the original, then model specifics on each reference.

At some point, if you wanted to see what your characters would look like as "cone-heads," you could apply a Taper modifier to the original head and have all the other characters take on the same feature. You could give the original character a very pointed head, then apply a separate Taper to some referenced characters to reduce the point toward normal.

In the swimming fish example, you might choose to make the school all referenced objects based on a single, original fish. You could still control the swimming motion from the original fish, and also add modifiers to individual fish in the school to vary their behavior.

For more information, see Understanding Object Copies, Instances, and References.

Straight out of the online reference.... :)

[turtos]

I'm back with a question...

Hey, how do you merge 2 faces together. They are separated by a line and i dun want it. Deleting it doesn't help...

[turtos]

And wat does this error mean:

"The following objects require map cordinates and may not be rendered correctly..."

I just added a material to my polygon and when i quick render it, this is the result, even though i can still render it.

[neomato]

"And wat does this error mean:

"The following objects require map cordinates and may not be rendered correctly..."

I just added a material to my polygon and when i quick render it, this is the result, even though i can still render it."

When you use textures on models other maxs standard ones then you need to aply an uvw modifier so that the texture will be displayed correctly. using uvw also lets you place the text in the right position. rarely the texture will be displayed correctly even without the modifier. hope i helped and sorry about my english.

[Marcel]

Originally posted by turtos
I'm back with a question...

Hey, how do you merge 2 faces together. They are separated by a line and i dun want it. Deleting it doesn't help...

Go to edge sub-object mode
Select the edge
push the 'invisible button' (under surface properties)

[GlasS-]

Yeah, i got one question to..
Whats the difference between Inverse Decay and Inverse Square Decay in the light settings for any light?

[Marcel]

Originally posted by GlasS-
Yeah, i got one question to..
Whats the difference between Inverse Decay and Inverse Square Decay in the light settings for any light?

Inverse square sets the falloff to the light to decay at an exponential way:

Say the light has a strength of 16 at the core.
At one metre it'll be the square root of that strength = 4
One metre further it'll have a strength of 2
Etc etc.
(This is just an example, probably not completely correct)

This is the most natural way for light to dim. The light spreads over a bigger and bigger (spherical) surface when it travels (and increasing the width of a surface by two, means it's area will be 2 x 2 as big, hence the square)

Since it is not always practical to have a light falloff at an inverse square rate, so you can also set it to 'inverse' (in this case it means linear falloff rate) or absolutely no falloff.

[turtos]

Originally posted by Matoboy

When you use textures on models other maxs standard ones then you need to aply an uvw modifier so that the texture will be displayed correctly. using uvw also lets you place the text in the right position. rarely the texture will be displayed correctly even without the modifier. hope i helped and sorry about my english.



English's fine... But can anyone explain a little bit more about UVW modifiers? I used them and they made my torso look like a piece of wood... :scream:

[turtos]

One more question:

I have a polygon which i intend to make as fingers. I used edge cutting to split the block to 4 parts. But the prob now is I can't separate them. When i selected one part of the splitted block, it is still joined together. Other than extruding, is there a way to separate them into 4 different parts?:hmm:

[Flypaper]

Try slicing the polygon instead of the edge. Click on the sub-object polygon, select your polygon, then click slice, adjust the gizmo to slice the polygon in the way you would like.

[turtos]

Kwel...
One more question, what are sliders for? Do i have to make 2 sets of that for each leg?
3 sliders, ankle, tiptoe and heel for the left leg. So do i have to make another set of sliders? But i gotta know wat sliders does first...

[Flypaper]

Well sliders are a used to control data. They can be used any number of ways. There good for tweeking animations, positions rotations, values and just about anything else you can wire them too...

If you are looking to use them to control you animations completely, a huge word of caution. I only use them myself when I am dealing with facial animation. To set them up individually for each joint in a body will become a veritable hell. the reason being is you will end up with more sliders than you can fit on your screen. It will be an all out mess.

A couple of ways around this are:
Character Studio, pricey, but super effective.
Maxscript - Effective, but quite a learning curve if your a newbie

Although there are other ways to animate your character, I would suggest, this being a fairly new thing for you, is a max script called "Anipose". It allows you to set up your key poses, store them, then recall them whenever you want, this is another form of the keyframe process.

Good Luck!

[turtos]

Wats the diff between world, local, view and screen? What difference does it make when u implement these things when u are moving or rotating the stuff?

[Clockwork]

Rotations, scales and axis all display and behave differently . For example screen means that all the axis are dependent on the current view or perspective of the screen, even though the view may be on a different rotational value. If you are viewing your model at an odd angle, scaling an object along the z axis means it will scale along the z axis to your perpendicular with your current view. Where as in a world view, scaling will only occur on the 'true' z world axis.

[turtos]

How to see the linkage between the parent and child?
Is there a view which ican use to link the stuff together other than dragging on the viewports it self?

[Chris]

yep, have a look at the schematic view. Thats a graphical representation of the hierarchy in a scene, you can link & unlink things there too. :)

[Fozzie]

Edit -- Misread Turtos' question, I thought he was asking for methods on how to link as opposed to his question on how to see the hierarchical linking structure. I am going to leave my original dumbass post here though in case anyone find it useful -- Edit

With the link tool active you could also pop-up the "Select by Name" window and choose which object you wish to link to from there.

Foz

[.oO-cloak-Oo.]

Originally posted by turtos

Question 3:
Is there a way to delete away vertices without the polygon dissappearing? U know when u cut and model and u want to cut down on the vertices to look neater... Any way/method?

I dont think anyone mentioned meshtools has a tool named Erase Vertex that lets you delete vertices without making holes on the mesh. I have never personally used it, but I was looking for documentation on meshtools so I could learn a little more about the different tools and found this -->
http://www.s21net.com/meshtools/docu_erase.html
Looks like that would work. :buttrock:

[turtos]

Hey thx .oO-cloak-Oo., that will be one useful tool for someone like me who has tons of unnesccary vertices...

Another question about schematic view:

what does reference mode, toggle, blah blah blah mean?
Cos when i try to link them up they move here and there causing my model to go hay-wire...

And what does this error mean?

Assertion failed
pthelp.cpp
Line 78

this error comes after i link something together...

[Chris]

the error message has got something to do with a point helper (pthlp) & is probably just one of the few bugs Max has, cos, you know, the application is really quite stable ;) LOL

Hierarchy mode shows you the hierarchy of a scene (what is linked to what)

Reference mode shows which parts of the scene are referenced or instanced from another object, so you can quickly see what are unique objects etc

If you are finding things rotating every which way when you link things, it is probably because things are not aligned. Basically an object inherits its co-ordinate system from its parent. If an object isnt linked to anything, it is linked to the world & has the worlds co-ordinate system. If you then link that object to something that is at say 90 degrees from the worlds co-orinate system, that object will rotate 90 degrees. The way to get around it is to either make everything aligned with the world, or align all the objects you need to link to their future parents.

[turtos]

Is there a way to go about it? Should i change the way i link or something like that?

[turtos]

I have a few different body parts that i've made. Is there a way to link it up nicely together? Like the arm to the torso and the leg to the torso? Or i simply need to use the select and link function?

Is there a thing called root dummy in 3dsma where a user can just click on this and move all the other different body parts? Somewhat like a parent that links all the child together?:annoyed:

[Chris]

You can make anything you want into a 'root dummy' I generally just create a dummy, & link the bone that everything else is linked to (ie is at the top of the heirarchy in schematic view) to that dummy.

When you are linking things, put dummys & helpers in the bone chain, it can give you a lot more flexibility later. For example, when you are linking your legs to the torso, why not link the start of the torso to the root dummy, then create a circle in the top view, centred on the hips.Make sure everything is aligned on its local axis & Link the leg bones to the circle, then link the circle to the root dummy. Now if you move the root dummy, everything moves. But if you rotate the circle you made earlier, the legs move at the hips, independantly of everything else - thats flexibility

[visualboo]

WOW, this is pretty cool. So much help. What I would have given to have this kind of help when I was starting. The internet rocks man.

You are one lucky guy btw :thumbsup:

[turtos]

Yeah, thanks to the Internet and the people around, I'm picking up this software much faster...

Btw, the root dummy can be anything? A box? A sphere? Or is there a helper called dummy?
If u use a circle, doesn't the circle appear together with the model?

Thanks again guys, really appreciate it...

[Chris]

yup, yup, yup, yup & there is an option in the properties of an object to make it 'renderable' or not - if you use a spline though, there is also an option in the splines parameters to do the same thing (under rendering options or something) :)

[turtos]

Just need one more affirmation...
UNder helpers there's this dummy object. So i create the dummy from there and put it in my model rite? And i link each dummy to the diff body parts and have one main rootdummy where every dummy connects to. And i correct? Or am i confusing?

[Chris]

yep, thats sortof correct, except you'd probably be better (if I'm understanding you right) to link the bone to the dummy, not the dummy to the bone :) . Then link those dummys to the root. Dont just go in & put dummys everywhere though, think about why you are putting in a dummy. The main reason for putting in dummys into the heirarchy is so that even though an object inherits the transforms from its parents, you can still move bits independantly as well (like that hip rotator example above). So say for a shoulder setup, you may want to make some kind of helper object, linked to the top of the spine, with the bicep bone linked to that, that way, if the spine bends, the shoulder will follow - but by rotating the helper object, you can also raise the shoulder in a shrug (you would want two of these helpers, one for each shoulder) :thumbsup:

[turtos]

Back with a question...
THis time its on the modifier noise

Can anyone tell me wat seed does? why can the numbers shoot up to 99999? wats the purpose?:shrug:

[Marcel]

Every seed produces another random noise patern.
So if you have two objects with noise applied and you don't want them to look exactly alike, use another seed...

[turtos]

SO the number doesn't matter? U just have to add and add and add till u like the pattern?:thumbsup:

[CactusJack]

no comment...kust find this to be an interesting thread...
so, i'm linkin' to it in case i can add some input...

[turtos]

Have a question...
I deleted the vertices by the "window" hoping to make it look nicer. But it appears that i can look through the image. Is there a way to delete the vertices yet able to see the back and not the background? (hope i didn't confuse u)

[Chico]

I'm not sure If I understand you but try this...Turn on "2-Sided" in your material that is assigned to you object. Or you can turn on "2-Sided" in the render dialog.

helps.?

[CactusJack]

Yes..sounds confusing...

Try the 2 sided material like chico said or go to your display panel and uncheck "Backface Cull"

Hope that helps too!
:scream:

[turtos]

Hey, you guys are great. both ways works... Thanks dudes...
:beer:

[turtos]

One more question:
Regarding materials I have one box with many faces. Can i apply specific materials to certain faces and other materials to other surfaces? Is it possible?:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[CactusJack]

yes...

in your objects edit mesh - sub object face/poly...
select desired faces and under surface properties assign them a material ID...these selected faces can also have their own UVW mapping...

in the materials editor, select the button labeled "standard", that will open the Material/Map Browser...click on Multi/Sub-Object, this creates a multi sub-object material that allows you to have multiple maps in one material, you can have like 999 different materials...i think. the material ID# in the multi-sub material corresponds with the ID# you applied to the selected area of faces...

did that make sense? hope thats what you are looking for!

:airguitar :buttrock: :airguitar :buttrock: :airguitar

[turtos]

Kinda got it thanks...:cool:
Can anyone elaborate a little more on uvw map modifer? I dun get it. If i dun put it, the rendering shows an error saying that it may not map properly... What does U stand for? V stand for? and W stand for?

:buttrock:

[Chris]

UVW is XYZ in Spanish... :D




Ha ha, no sorry, its not Spanish at all! UVW is basically XYZ, but its called UVW so you dont get confused with XYZ... :D confused? See it didnt work at all!! ;)

[turtos]

Hey u almost got me there. I was soooo surprised...

So UVW is just another way of representing XYZ rite? Cool, will do...

wat about the parameters? Like box, planar, tile, channel etc. Care to explain a little to me? SO what if i dun add? wat diff does it make?

[turtos]

Can i assume that when i use lines to make a box then convert it to an editable mesh is less memory consuming than directly using the box object to make a box?
:surprised :surprised :surprised

[Chris]

its not less memory consuming as far as I know, memory tends to hog the more modifiers you put on the stack, thats when collapsing can be useful. Collapsing to an editable mesh should give you a fraction better viewport performance (editable meshes run faster in the viewport than editable polys - which I'm pretty sure the primitives are created as) but you will never notice the difference unless the cube has a hell of a lot of segments... :)

[Chico]

In fact im sure its the other way around Chris.

If you have an box that has a meshsmooth, twist, bend and whatever else...All that max needs to know is ...here is a box (verts here, here and here) withe these mods on it and these settings. When you collapse the object then max has to only remember the object but it has to remember all the settings for all the verts now. This makes it more stable, but more of a memory hog.

Also for a simple box, max only has to think "box, these settings, this place" but with an emesh or epoly it has to think about the locations of all the verts and also all the settings needed.

I could be wrong but this was what I was told by a great sage on a mountain top many years ago.:thumbsup:

[turtos]

so is collapsing a better suggestion? Logically speaking, collapsing makes the whole thing neater, but technically.... *No Idea*:shrug:

[Chico]

Sorry ... I didnt make myself clear...I was more implying that its less of a hog to have keep your stack around in answer to your previous question.

Its always good to collapse, as it is neater and more stable. I find when you get an outargious stack you loose stability. And I model mainly in Epoly so Ill foten apply a bend to a selected group of verts, a little relax...tweak here and there then collapse and carry on working. Once the model is done ILL add mapping and unwrapping and be constantly collasping my stack.

As I look after alot of the modeling here, a model rarely leaves me more than a simple epoly.

[Chris]

hmm, you could be right :shrug: , I came to those conclusions from doing a simple test (after one of the students asked the same question) try it & see what results you get:

change the undo levels to 1
Create a box (150 segments length, width & height)
open task manager & have a look at Max's ram usage
orbit around box to see viewport feedback

then:

convert to editable mesh & check ram & viewport feedback

I found that Ram usage was about the same (minus a little for the 1 undo) but viewport speed increased with an editable mesh

convert to editable poly & check again - I found editable poly took about 30 meggs more ram & was waaaaay slower in the viewport.

reset & start again (for the stack test)
create the box again, & add various modifiers to the stack. Check ram usage & viewport speed. Then collapse & check again. I found the viewport speed increased a bit, & ram went down (by a max of about 30 megs if I remember correctly) when the stack was collapsed to a base object...


that was with the schools versions of Max 4.2, running on Win2K.

I could be wrong though - sometimes I think Max has gotten so complex its actually developed intelligence & does strange things just to piss us off! ;)

[turtos]

rofl:D

thanks for the research thats done...

Another question poped up. Does collapsing the stack reduce the size of the file? Or it doesn't matter? :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Chico]

I could be wrong though - sometimes I think Max has gotten so complex its actually developed intelligence & does strange things just to piss us off!

You may want to delete your post as this is confidencial information that if it got out then could cause damage to discreets products. Ive been awear of this for som time now and I havent dared mention this to any one.:hmm:

Yep turtos, if you save a file with a box in it, and then colapse the box and save it as another...youll find a size difference. Same deal as before ...max only has to remember a box...in the other case max has to remember the home of ever vertex in the box.

[Chris]

LOL Damn, too late! The 'men in Dark blue with sorta lighter coloured swirly bits' are already at my door!! What will I dooo?!? :)

[turtos]

Wahahahaha...
quick, use yr super bonic power to box them to the moon...
:p :p :p

Thx for the answers...

Till then, I'll Be Back...
:cool:

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