NOOB texturing (workshop perhaps) PLEASE join in and PLEASE help

[HapZungLam]

i don't understand the perpose of this thread. are we going to continue in this thread instead of those noob thread? are all the noob threat should post here?

[leigh]

There is already a really long human skin thread. A lot of it is just people posting pics and not actually explaining anything (as was the intention of the thread) but a lot of really cool artists posted some great skin WIPs with useful tips and advice in it.

The fact is that there is no easy recipe for skin texturing.
I don't even try explaining it to people anymore because frankly it's something that you only get right through a lot of practise. If someone spends a month trying to paint a skin texture and can't get it right then either:

1 - he's not actually trying properly, or;
2 - he's never going to get it right.

I know this sounds harsh but I get inundated every day with people asking me questions about texturing and I have gotten to the point where I find it really frustrating because most of the time people are just wanting easy answers and quick solutions so that they don't have to make any effort.

If people aren't willing to work hard then this is the wrong industry for them.

Sorry to rant like this but it's pointless trying to help people who don't help themselves. People are lazy when it comes to texturing, for some reason. If their questions are legitimate technical problems or queries about things, then fine, but when people are asking exactly how you paint a certain type of texture - it's because they are not actually trying. Painting is simple - you just use a paintbrush and paint what you need and what you see. It couldn't possibly be more simple. All an artist needs to know about is some basic texturing theory (and this is readily available both on CGTalk, in books and all over the web) and then they must practise.

With regards to human skin in particular - we all have skin. Look in a mirror. Take some photos. Get some pictures off the web. Look at the colours, and use those colours to paint. Why is it so hard? It's not hard, that's the point. People just need to make more effort.

This post is not a personal attack on anyone, but rather a plea with artists to go to greater lengths themselves and to push themselves a bit harder. If you're not willing to do that, you're not going to be able to get very far in this industry. You have to have initiative to survive, even when you're a beginner.

[hpslashluvr]

that's exactly what i think. I think that a lot of people are very lazy and think that cg will just "hit them" and they'll be really good. I personally have learned everything by myself at home because I am still in "kiddie school" (i'm a junior in high school). A lot of easy things I have learned after several hours, like which button to press to edit the uv map...I know that sounds crazy but most tutorials just say bring up your map...and I didn't know how. I offered to help abohmed through some of his problems and I was simply opening up this thread to allow other ppl to see if they have the same problems. Hopefully this might lessen the amount of "what tutorials to use" etc threads, although I doubt it, because we see those threads every day.

Leigh, if you'd like, you can delete this thread and I"ll just continue on abohmed's old one, I just wanted to open it up to other ppl too. I understand that there are several large threads already.

[leigh]

I see no reason to delete this thread. I just felt it necessary to express my feelings that sometimes I have seen people go to a lot of effort here on CGTalk to try and explain things to people who just never seem to benefit from that persons efforts.

I think it's admirable that you started this thread, but why not rather put together a beginners tutorial or something like that instead? That way you don't get too involved, but are helping people nevertheless :)

[hpslashluvr]

...because I have actually only textured once, and that was basically just the uv layout. So actually, while helping abohmed, I am helping myself...I hope he doesn't get too mad that I don't know too much. I have read over 35 tutorials in the past month, I'm not really a lazy person. I think if you keep at it, you'll figure it out. Problem is keeping ahead of the gang so I actually look like I know what I"m doing...;)

Once in a while I'll have this urge to help out everyone. I used to critique full-length screenplays, until the same problem rose up: ppl are too lazy.
I mean, screenplays are at least 120 pages and very hard to read, unlike novels. Also these are by noobs too, so it's even worse and often the story is hard to follow and the grammar/spelling is atrocious. I can't believe I actually bothered to comment on every single thing...120+pages worth of it. And that's only one screenplay. And then this guy comes along and wants me to WRITE it for him...OMG :banghead:

You prolly think I'm crazy for wanting to help, but you know what I want to do in cg? most ppl want to make an orc WIP or realistic head...I'm gonna write a photorealistic human tutorial modeling to finish!!! to fix joan of arc!!! cuz that tutorial although good is not very anatomically correct...

By the way, if anyone wants to know a piece of advice from a noob: ALWAYS FINISH YOUR MODEL BEFORE TEXTURING!!! I tried it, doesn't work too well.

Btw, free promotion for me: :) ...check out my thread under focused critiques.

[abohmed]

hello
hi all
i want to thank you so much hpslashlover for opening this thread and i sended an email to you that has a picture of a young man and a render of my model i want to say lets start step by step and with pictures and i am sure it will help a lot

leigh!! i am amazed that the best texturing artist is with us and now i am sure that i will get help and let this thread be to all who has my problem

and again thank you hpslashlover so much


abohmed

[hpslashluvr]

(abohmed, sorry I can't always reply on msn because I have to have a life too ;) and our time zones are way off which doesn't exactly help.)

Well, we finally reached each other on msn at the same time....but we only got through a little. I will post what we did so far. And here are some questions that he asked me, and I might have answered them incorrectly. I will answer them throughout the post.

How did he do that skin tone?
After I pick a color, what do I do?
Where does the uv map go in here?
What/where is the fill (paintbucket) option (in PS)?
For the first few steps on page 4: When I am beginning to outline the features, should I choose the colors of the layers first and then outline, or outline each layer one by one, choosing the colors as I go? (I will explain this later if you do not understand)

We started from the 4th page of Julian J's excellent step by step tutorial on 3dtotal.com (under free stuff), because he wants to do his color mapping first before his bump. For anyone, if you really want to have some bump to your model just for the hell of it, you prolly can add noise(?) to the bump slot and set it so that there are very fine bumps on the face, and so it is not perfectly smooth. Dunno if you're supposed to do that, but anyway...I talk a lot in this tutorial, but it is sort of me explaining what I think about things. I'm just a noob...what do I know...btw it is late here (2 AM) so I have probably made many mistakes and forgot steps.

He understood how to do the diffuse layer on page 3, it's pretty self explanatory.

We are starting on the top of page 4, from the first picture to the fourth picture (up to blending the first few layers). I personally did not use this tutorial on my own model (I have not even gotten to texturing), so I am not exactly sure if I am reading it correctly, so please correct me if I'm wrong (which is probably for everything... :banghead: ). Most of what I say is just repeating what Julian says. But if you are not familiar with ps, it can be difficult to follow a tutorial even if you understand the steps. I have very little experience with ps, and only know like 3 functions...so please bear with me.

1.) Hide the previous diffuse layer (s) by clicking the "eye" sign under "layers" in the tools presets menu box thing. If that menu is not open, go to the "Window" (main menu, top of page, right side), then click the 13th option (could have counted wrong here) "Tool presets". A box will pop up and there are tabs, click "layers". If you look like an inch under the layers tab, you will see the "eye". This will hide or unhide your layer when you click on it.

[hpslashluvr]

BTW, the uv map is typically at the top of the layers I think. This way it will always show up over your other work. If you do not want to see your uv, you can hide it as previously mentioned. Normally though, you can just set the opacity of the layer very low so that the lines show up but not the black background (well, it should be greyish at least). To set the layer opacity, make sure you are in the Tool Presets box menu again...then "layers" tab...under "layers" you should see "Normal". To the right of "Normal" is opacity, click on that and set it either by sliding the opacity to a number (click on the little sideways triangle) or by typing in a number.

[hpslashluvr]

2.) Now create a new layer....you SHOULD know how to do this, b/c you just did it with the diffuse thing in the previous steps...
If not just press SHIFT CTRL N (default hotkey I think) and the program will create one for you.

3.) STUDY your reference carefully. Contrary to popular belief, people are NOT just a bland, flat peach color or brown or yellow. They have different tones etc. The race depends too obviously. If you are not scared of being embarassed (assuming you are a guy, most ppl on this board are) get a good girl's makeup/fashion magazine, or go to a makeup counter and ask about skin base color (usually related to foundations and powders). Often a good magazine will explain how the skin color works and the different ways it is lit etc. They also tell you which race has what kind of base color. Of course, there are several books on this too, but I personally don't know any. There is a famous makeup artist named Kevin Aucoin who has written several books and has some good knowledge that is applicable to cg. Also, if you are making a girl, you can find out some good tips on painting makeup also that way.

I mean...asians are not called "yellow" for nothing (I know that might be a racial slur, but hey, I'm an asian girl so it's ok... don't get mad...lol). Most of us Asians really do have a yellowish base tone. CG IS NOT just knowing the technical aspect of which buttons to press...you need to know HOW and WHY you do certain things.

Taking an traditional art class like painting will help you tons, no kidding. Most local colleges/schools offer classes for not too much (if you are in my Dallas Ft Worth, TX, it is only about $100 for a full semester with one or more instructors plus some supply costs), take advantage of that. Anyhow that's my little rant.

4.) I think Julian now chooses a new skin color that is lighter than the diffuse layer. This is for the new layer you just created in step 2. Oh btw, MAKE SURE YOU NAME YOUR LAYERS. Julian doesn't in his, but that's b/c he's awesome and really organized in his head....most likely it will be hard for YOU to find the bump layer for the lips etc on the top of your head by the time you're done...so labeling is a great idea.

I think Leigh (one of the mods, check out her tutorials cuz they are professional, she wrote a book too for lightwave I think, if you use it...you'll have to ask here where to buy it though, I use 3dsmax sorry Leigh ;)...just a note: NEVER pass up a book or tutorial just because it is not for your software...use traditional painting tutorials to learn how to do PS and use maya tutorials for lightwave etc, it's basically all the same) explains how she does that in her tutorials. My example for naming a layer: COLOR lip base.

Another thing is, you may choose to do your painting in very few layers, but I'd only suggest it if you are very careful and sure that whatever layer is EXACTLY how you want it...cuz it will be hard to change later without a lot of hassle.

Use the fill option unless you want to choose a really big brush and paint in the new skin color for this layer...dunno why you'd do that though. The fill option (not sure if that is the formal name...that's just what I call it) is the sixth button down under the move button on the main tool menu (the menu with the dotted square and the paintbrush icon etc). It's a paintbucket. This basically fills the entire canvas with whatever color you chose. Once you have your color, simply click the paintbucket and click the canvas. It should fill up entirely with that color.

[hpslashluvr]

5.) Now...I didn't think about it until me and abohmed were discussing it...should you outline first (step one and so on page 4) on each layer... or first choose colors and then outline on each layer? I told him to just choose colors first because I did not want to wait for him to outline the different features (no offense abohmed hehe). I wanted him to do a good careful job of it, not something quick cuz I was telling him the next step already lol. So, my answer was: Since most of us are not familiar with what skin colors work together and if that is the final color we want (I know you can adjust the opacity later to adjust color to some extent, but I am talking about pure color here), I think noobs should choose the colors first.

So repeat step 2( make a new layer, name it) and choose a dark color for the dark map that is Picture 3 page 4. Next, you need to "blend" the layers so they mix better. Julian mentions using soft light or multiply, so choose one. To blend layers, right click the layer you want in the Tool Presets box menu. A pop up should come up, with "blending options..." as one of the choices. Click that. In the middle of the box that pops up, you should see "blend mode". Choose soft light or multiply, or whatever you'd like. Play around with the settings until you get a good effect. Repeat for all the layers.

[hpslashluvr]

8.) Then, save the file as a jpeg (btw you should be saving often, as a PSD file or whatever, as long as it keeps the layers...if you think messing up in 3d and having to go back is annoying...it's even worse in 2d trust me). You probably have to merge the layers first or flatten image so the different layers end up being one.

To flatten the image, click on "layer" on the main menu (top of screen, under "op" in the word Photoshop) then click on the second to last one, or "flatten image". Again, this makes all your layers one.

7.) Now, go back into your 3dsmax (or whatever prog) screen and press M (I think) for the material editor (I am not sure what the hotkeys are for other progs...sorry from now on just know I am in 3dsmax).

I remember Leigh saying Max being stupid about confusing diffuse and color or something...just choose whatever slot this COLOR map should be in...in Max, if you scroll down a little in Material Editor, there should be a "tab" called Maps. Click on that and it should reveal a whole bunch of maps. Don't worry about them except for the color slot...Diffuse I believe in Max. If you do not understand what the different maps are...Leigh has GREAT long rants ;) (sorry that is what I call tutorials with a lot of text), she is an expert at this so she has very good explanations of bump, reflection, etc. Click "NONE" and then a new menu should open with a huge amount of options...click the first one named "bitmap". Now an "open file" menu should pop up. Choose your jpeg file of the color map.

[hpslashluvr]

8.) Now, drag the material to your model if you have not done so already, or apply it if your program does not have that option. You can drag it in Max by clicking on the display window of the material (the squares with spheres in them) and dragging it literally onto the model in the viewport. The colors you chose for your map should now appear on your model (edit: you might need to click a button in the material editor to show it in the viewport, i believe it is the checkered cube?? sorry my prog is not open now)

9.) Now go back to Photoshop, and start making the faint outlines and marks etc on the face. I will explain more about this later once me and abohmed hook back up again on msn. For the meantime, I'll just say this for basics:

Choose a slightly (and I mean slightly, not like 50 shades off please) darker color than whatever the layer color is now, and choose a paintbrush. You are supposed to turn down the opacity of the brush so that the new, slightly darker color "blends" with the old color. If you are a painter, this is basically blending paints on the canvas or sometimes dry brushing.

To turn down the opacity of the paintbrush, click on the paintbrush function. You should see an option on the top of the screen for opacity, change that how you'd like. You usually have to go somewhat low to get a good blending effect. Build your colors on the layer, so that it is more natural. You can see Julian building the colors in picture 2 page 4.

[hpslashluvr]

OK, sorry if the tutorial is hard to follow or too easy...or whatever. My head hurts a lot right now hehe and again it's very late. The pictures take the longest to do...always too big for attachments lol.

If you need any more pictures abohmed, just tell me. After you finish everything up along with drawing in the outlines and marks (wrinkles, freckles, etc), post it up or email it to me if you still are not allowed to post pictures. Sorry if I'm going too slow or fast for you, it's just hard to know where you are in the process.

BTW ppls this is his model and his reference:

[abohmed]

hi
thanks you so much really
but i still have problem with the outlining and what color i use for the darker map and where to put it please tell me the order of every layer about the blending do i blend every layer ?
and what value

[hpslashluvr]

Hey abohmed,

I've been busy taking care of the kids who came over and going out for errands. Seems like I'm the family gopher this weekend. Hopefully I can get some time out to help you, but I've also just joined a new animation short group on threedy.com...in addition to my 4 college classes, my high school art hw (3 projects), and writing college applications...hehe so be patient. And there's no need to start any new threads, b/c I started this one just for you.

We talked a little on msn this morning and yesterday, and you sent me the email with your screenshots. Just a recap: Your head coloring is too reddish, especially for your reference. I would recommend putting some yellow into each layer. I might make the overall color lighter too. I thought I was pretty clear on blending layers. It's on one of the posts that I just did...there are screenshots on which button to click and all....I can't really help you beyond that because I don't know exactly what colors will look good on your model. Just make sure you use "multiply" or something that doesn't change the look crazily.

What problem do you have with outlining? Don't outline too hard. It's basically just going over the main features with a barely there touch.

I know we got a slight language barrier between us, but how your model turns out is really up to you. I only can help you to a certain extent. It takes me quite a while to try to do this tutorial along with you and write out every step and every click and make screenshots. So just try it! It doesn't matter if you screw up a little, we can always go back and start from a save. Like I said earlier, you aren't special in your case, all artists have had to teach themselves how to do something at one time or another.

And *I* personally have no experience whatsoever texturing really. I mean, I know what to do and what looks bad or good, etc and all the basic terminology. But this is my "first try" at doing this too...so you really have to start working a little on your own and asking me more specific questions. I don't know the answers to anything, I have to find them myself. Anything you ask me I have to go into Photoshop or 3dsmax and try to figure out the solution. What I'm saying is, what I am doing you can really do on your own. I'm not mad or anything, I'm still willing to help you along if you truly are frustated and confused on this subject.

I hope you realize that I really really really am putting in effort here, and you have to do your share also. Hell, I'm starting to outline the next few steps on my computer and it's 5 AM in the morning!!!!! If it's not obvious that I am really trying to help, I'm not sure what would be...

It's just that in the real world no one is going to cut you any slack for not taking initaitive/incentive to figure it out yourself. If it really is a language barrier that is confusing you in the tutorials (I completely understand this problem, I have found several great tutorials in French), use a English to Arabic (or whatever) online translator. It won't translate the 3d words very well, but you should be able to work it out. The words are usually about the same.

[abohmed]

i really know that you are doing so much effort and i appreciat that but what i want really is a video tutorial of texturing you know there are a lot on modeling there is non on modeling
or online training you know we can do it on messanger program share you cauld share my photoshop and work on it in front of me

[hpslashluvr]

if you want video training you should buy some of the dvds that are available around the internet

there are several modeling timelapse vids on the net, i got one for the lips under a thread soemwhere (dave black made it)

but i have no clue how to make one

[BESTrin]

hpslashlvr your problem is your to nice. Thats not a problem really its quite admirable but i dont get it. I dont think of myself as mean but it seams that way sometimes after seeing you do all this because of a noob post. Theres gotta be a cgtalk award for that. Chronically Nice award.

Oh and leigh your frustration is very understandable. I mean you wrote all those tuts a book and theres tons of other stuff out there and your always trying to help but people still ask these questions before doing any work. I didnt learn of cgtalk till i was realatively past newb stage and dint post till way later. I realy enjoyed your tuts and am thinking of buying your book but the budget is real tight and im not using lw. Personally i think the mods should make a forum section just for posts like this and all the stuff will be moved there. It will still be a great rescource just w/o clutering the rest of cgtalk. Probably a dumb idea though.

Abhomed you have a much better attitude now and i cant wait to see your progress.

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