Zbrush for games

[commy]

best to use per face mapping for ure normal maps as they will have the greatest resolution and least distortion and then do ure own unwrap for the ambiant/diffuse maps etc

[ElysiumGX]

I would only buy Zbrush for detailed high poly work for creating normal maps. I'm not sure if it's texturing tools are comparable to Photoshop.

[robinb]

Actually Zbrush is quite good for painting textures. It doesn't have photoshop's flexibility (don't think it has layers within textures), but the ability to paint across UV seams on the surface of the model itself is a great time saver. The range of brush types is quite useful really, but again not as complex as Photoshop. I found it quicker to get fairly decent results for organic stuff with less messing about setting up brushes etc. I don't think it'd be much good for more mechanical objects, but there's nothing to stop you painting the organic stuff in zbrush, exporting the psd, adding the mechanical details there and bringing it back into Zbrush.

If you're going to use it for game models, you'd be better off laying out the UVs for the low poly model in another program (whatever you're using for building the model in the first place), but they do get used by zbrush OK.

And once you've got the UVs for a low res model, you can paint on the high res one too, so you can work out where veins and lumps and whatever go. Nice.

And yes it does allow you to generate normal maps without needing Kaldera or whatever (although you can export the high res meshes as OBJ files and generate the normal maps elsewhere too if you want).

I think I'd recommend it alongside PS, rather than instead of. Maybe get zbrush and something cheaper than PS, like Paintshop Pro to do the mechanical stuff.

[mr. travis]

It has a lot of uses for games, I find.

Obviously: sculpting high poly detail for normal maps

also: roughing out a model creatively, then using that to trace a good topology low poly model from it

and then there's texturing, which is very nice, having to freeze the model in position to do it is the only inconvienence

another thing I just discovered is its uv tiling method works in real time engines, so you can do non essential objects without wasting time mapping (I wouldn't do important ones this way though for obvious ease of manually editing the texture, and because the overall res will usually be somewhat less impressive with a tiled method)

[AndreKling]

Yes, but you could always get GIMP to do those stuff. What you guys think about the speed of doing the textures on it? I think if you chose to do the texture painting in it, you dont have to lose time doing uvs, since it paint seamless textures, right?
I am a 3dmax 6 user and when i tried to export my meshes to ZB it screw up the uvs, and i dont know how to get around this problem, and thats y im wondering if ZB could b a good texturing program even though I cant understand the map when ZB lays down the UVS.
Andre

[mr. travis]

It has a lot of uses for games, I find.

Obviously: sculpting high poly detail for normal maps

also: roughing out a model creatively, then using that to trace a good topology low poly model from it

and then there's texturing, which is very nice, having to freeze the model in position to do it is the only inconvienence

another thing I just discovered is its uv tiling method works in real time engines, so you can do non essential objects without wasting time mapping (I wouldn't do important ones this way though for obvious ease of manually editing the texture, and because the overall res will usually be somewhat less impressive with a tiled method)

and two tips: press polygroups> uv groups to use your own uvs from imported model, and for most things you'll want to flip the texture made in zb vertically before you export it because it has it upside down for some reason

[Miguelito]

Yes, but you could always get GIMP to do those stuff. What you guys think about the speed of doing the textures on it? I think if you chose to do the texture painting in it, you dont have to lose time doing uvs, since it paint seamless textures, right?
I am a 3dmax 6 user and when i tried to export my meshes to ZB it screw up the uvs, and i dont know how to get around this problem, and thats y im wondering if ZB could b a good texturing program even though I cant understand the map when ZB lays down the UVS.
Andre


Hm...exporting the meshes did work for me but I had several problems, too. Try around in the obj. exporter and dont forget to flip your texture vertically after importing your model zb (if it's no bmp) or exproting from zb. Hope this helps.
But I highly recommend the ZB Practical Guide which is available on their homepage.

[Prs-Phil]

hmmm I gave it a try and I had a problem with the brightness. It was totally different in PS. You can´t really do a 100% of the texturing work in Zbrush so you do have to finish it up with PS and the 2 progs don´t really corresspond from what I´ve seen. I work faster in PS anyway

[Slythis]

pretty interesting stuff, i have alot of trouble painting flats and flipping back and forth between programs is a bit bothersome at times. Painting directly onto the model seems like a pretty sweet deal, and I like the capability of doing the normal maps, very cool indeed. I'll have to get my hands on a copy of ZBrush and give this a shot. Glad someone brought this up, prolly wouldn't have occured to me

[Triceron]

You could always make normal maps out of the high res Zbrushed model, as I've seen done here quite a bit.

[KolbyJukes]

It's perfect for making normal maps, and quick adjusting proportions on models...but there aint much more use for it in games. I would never use it for texturing - PS all the way baby.

-Kol.

[Matt]

I believe my approach is solid.

For humanoid characters, model in a traditional package, and then load your final model into ZBrush. Then use ZBrush to add an extreme amount of detail. After this step,
Export the normal map and models
Use other normal map programs (Orb, ATi Normal Mapper, Melody)
Compare each normal map for quality, and use the best. (Perhaps even taking the best parts out of each map, and combining them with Photoshop.)
Fix any seams


I've found that different normal mapping programs, since they all use different methods to produce the final result, will yield different results. Experiment with the settings of each program, and see what you really like. ZBrush 2 has a fine normal map exporter.

For non-Humanoid characters, I'll do some rough concepts on paper first to get a feel for what I want, and then use ZSpheres in ZBrush to model and refine.

[Matt]

You can´t really do a 100% of the texturing work in Zbrush

That only depends on your subject. ZBrush 2's painting tools are really getting there. If you know what you're doing, you can get some stellar results in a jiffy with ZBrush 2. As far as real-time 3D painting goes, I like it much better than BodyPaint 2... A great deal of my bias is from the style, ease, and unity of the ZBrush interface. It all fits together and it's incredibly easy to get a handle of.

[cmc]

I have not use zbrush. But Photoshop is mainly use because of the tools it have over the control of 2d images. Great for treating photo to texture and similar application. But of course if the 2D artist main job is painting texture directly and won't be using most tools in photoshop, then app like painter are better suited.

It boils down to which tool is best suited for specific job. You can even print out the UV on paper and let the artist paint on paper and scan back to the computer. Anything goes, as long as it is effective, cheap and productive.

[bentllama]

Zbrush is being researched and even used in some productions under the Microsoft games umbrella...

...it CAN be used for games...anyone who says otherwise is mis-informed, or indignant...

[Matt]

I think it's essential. There is no other software package on the planet that lets you get the sort of detailed, sculptured results with as much ease. It's edgeloop tools are nice for making both low poly and high poly stuff in it, but until they add some fundamental features that are not present but are present in classic modelling packages, I think most serious developers will stick with using ZBrush as a tool for refinement. Maybe adding these extra features would work well, but every tool does what it is meant to do... You don't add a flat head screwdriver to the bottom of a hammer, it just wouldn't make sense. Adding anything else could break it. It's already got so many features that there's no reason Pixolater should be charging so cheap for it in comparison with other 3D packages. (Other than he's not insane like the big corporate goons are.)

[AndreKling]

Yes, i know ZB2 can b used for making high poly stuff, and to extract the normal maps, but would it b good for making textures? I saw some pretty cool features of it, but dont know if would fit for games.
The idea of using ZB and photoshop is great, maybe ZB can solve all my seams problems, hvnt thought about that. I would like to know how you guys export your obj using max6. I think the exporter has a bug, cuz all my uvs are lost. If any one has a clue please let me know.
Andre

[robinb]

The Obj UV problem is a common one. At the bottom of the exporter dialog box is a setting that says 'number of digits'. This means how many decimal places you want to export. It defaults to 1 which means the UVs are rounded to the nearest 0.1 so you get a kind of snapping to the nearest 10th of the uv space. Set that option to at least 3 and that should give you plenty of accuracy. It saves the setting so you only need to set it up once.

[Prs-Phil]

I´m giving it another try, just to test it out proparly. At the moment i find the way of lighting very distrubing, but maybe I can find out how to give different layers different lights. :D

[AndreKling]

WOOOOW thank you very much, i would never guessed.
Andre

[dtrimble]

I was playing with the demo learning zbrush, and could totaly see this tool working for background creation. If you are making something as simple as a city scape (like in a GTA or True crime) you could create the building shapes rather easy, set the size of the map, no texture UV wrangling, Plop the geomitry down on the canvas and start painting. I think the the brushes are really nice for creating grit and texture, also the ability to make material effects is nice,and with some time served, one could create better looking textures in less time than a counterpart who would have to spend a lot of time worrying about making seams disappear and painting the same kind of material effects.

I am not saying it is the end all tool, but it is pretty sweet, and I think it will catch on:P

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