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View Full Version : Rendering help, please?


Sychosis Dragon
07-07-2004, 03:24 AM
I'm pretty new to Blender, I can model a few things easily, but my problem is rendering. The main page on the Blender website has a render of a creature, I would like to know how to make a render that looks as realistic as that, thanks in advance.

Apollux
07-07-2004, 04:24 AM
I guess that you are refering to http://www.blender3d.org/_gfx/homepage/snog.jpg

I don't pretend to know as much as @ndy, but there isn't nothing particullary special. It is a combination of 3 elements.

a.- Superb modeling.
b.- Extremly well executed shader (both material composition and mapping).
c.- Lighting, lighting, lighting and more lighting.

Snog is wearing a double layer skin, a transparent and very shinny one plus a hand painted color map with translucency and bump mapping activated. But it is the lighting the real protagonist of that picture.

On top of all there is a post-processing glow filter and a very pronounced DOF effect. Those could be the ones built into Blender, or from post-processing on a tird party application.

All I can say is that doing something like Snog takes a lot of patience and expertice.. i.e., I' ve never been able to create eyes textures as good as the one you see here, and I've tryed and tryed and tryed. Each time I get better, but there is still a long road ahead of me when it comes to hand painted textures.

Good Luck!

bbirras
07-07-2004, 06:28 PM
m pretty new to Blender, I can model a few things easily, but my problem is rendering. The main page on the Blender website has a render of a creature, I would like to know how to make a render that looks as realistic as that, thanks in advance.

there are people not that new to blender and despite their knowledge on HOW to make it, not everybody can get there.

A) learn how to set up lights lighting
b) learn how to apply multiple textures
c) get confortable with uv-mapping

if you use the fat written in the searchfunction of elysiun or here( specially on lighting a scene u will find a LOT of information in CGTalk.Head over to the rendering threads and u will get cool links and advice on how to set up light in your scene.)

have fun

btw. in my opinion the right light setting is harder to learn than to model. With the wrong lighting even with the best texturers u can ruin a scene completely.

Sychosis Dragon
07-08-2004, 02:44 AM
Okay, I searched for lighting and I also searched for rendering, but I couldn't fine anything about light setup. Can someone show me a specific thread for light/render setup?

artificial3D
07-08-2004, 03:14 PM
i think everything is said by appolux and bbirras.
blender is pretty much like any other 3d app out there, it takes some time to get comfortable with and of course it needs a lot of practising to produce something 'a bit more elaborate'.
dont give up, practise, learn.

just to show you that there's no mystery behind my snog image:
http://artificial3d.com/images/snog_wire.jpg


http://artificial3d.com/images/wip/snog_screenie1.jpg

http://artificial3d.com/images/wip/snog_screenie2.jpg

.andy

bassplayer
07-08-2004, 03:59 PM
@ndy that is a great picture! Without looking at your scene shot I would've never guessed you used so many lights.

Lourdelle
07-08-2004, 05:40 PM
hey, screenshots form your works are always welcome @ndy

nice work like always :thumbsup:

Sychosis Dragon
07-08-2004, 11:38 PM
Hey! This helps alot! Thanks for the info, @ndy!

Apollux
07-09-2004, 12:02 AM
Double surprize for me :eek: :eek:

1.- @ndy has been seating quietly here at the Blender forum over CGTalk !!!!!!
2.- I was imaging that scene with a least twice the lights that you actually used :applause:

bbirras
07-09-2004, 06:13 AM
hehehe
what it does not show are the hours @ndy must have spend on the texturing!!!!! and the right set-up, test renderings etc..lighing, re-lighting...blabalbala
in short: any strait forward scene, can be converted into something special.

just compare the first testrender, with the blender materials and the final pic in apollux-post with the textures.... :drool:
there are 2 worlds in between

conclusion:
none.....Is it easy once u know how to do it?....NO its not....it just takes patience, practice&skill, lots of coffee and a lost sense of time (kennst de das irgendwoher,hab ich ~ von dir geklaut,hehehe):p

--------
Okay, I searched for lighting and I also searched for rendering, but I couldn't fine anything about light setup. Can someone show me a specific thread for light/render setup?

:deal: .....
here are some links I found here in CGTalk:

lighting+compositing
extracts of the book digital lighting + rendering (very good indeed)
http://www.3drender.com/light/index.html

lighting/render
http://www.debevec.org/

hdri
http://www.debevec.org/Probes/

some tuts about lighting
http://www.andrew-whitehurst.net/tutorials.html

Jeremy Birn, Fixing Lighting Irregulaties in Self-Tiling Maps:
http://www.3drender.com/light/EqTutorial/tiling.htm

Jeremy Birn, tutorials and some chapters of Digital Lighting and Rendering
http://www.3drender.com/light/


well I´ve more, but thats enough 4 now
;)

edit:

bevor this lecture u must have read the blender manual

2nd edit:
to whom it may ......
http://www.seraph3d.com/tutorials.htm :)

Apollux
07-09-2004, 09:27 AM
bbirras, Sind Sie aus Deutsland? Vie alt sind Sie?

bbirras
07-09-2004, 12:59 PM
Donaudampfschifffahrtskapitänspatent*

try to look that up in the dic.
its a valid word

¿que pasa hombre?
¿hemos bebido demasiaó?...........¡birras!

Sychosis Dragon
07-09-2004, 05:54 PM
@ndy, if you're still here, could you tell me the specs for some of the lights? I don't know how many samples to use and all of that (I don't even know what half of these settings are, lol.) I'd appreciate it, thank you.

artificial3D
07-10-2004, 06:11 AM
@ndy, if you're still here, could you tell me the specs for some of the lights? I don't know how many samples to use and all of that (I don't even know what half of these settings are, lol.) I'd appreciate it, thank you.
i'm here! i'm here all the time! :D
you're on the save side with an energy value from 1 - 2 [if you have more than 3 lights in the scene... but it really depends]
i usually use the max sample amount for shadowmapped spots [16] and a buffer size from 1024 to 2056... adjust the clipSta and clipEnd according to the scene and set the bias a bit lower.

you shouldnt use me as a reference tho :P
read the manual, read tutorials and then you'll find your own settings!

.andy

Sychosis Dragon
07-10-2004, 06:21 AM
Thanks @ndy!

I know I shouldn't use you as a reference, but that render/light setup is so darn good! I've tried and tried to find tutorials to help me understand blender terms, but it's no use, I'm still a blender n00b, lol.

bbirras
07-10-2004, 11:19 PM
a copy of other peoples setting will not get u far...

even if u copy the exact texture settings...it looks different, cause of the light..
copy the exact light..it´ll look different cause of the tex.

best bet:

http://www.alienhelpdesk.com/index.php?id=1,9,6,

1st do all the tuts
2nd read the manual u r going 2 buy at www.blender3d.org

3rd u´ll surprise the world with your artwork
;)


edit:
@ndy if u could do a little "making of ..." would be great to see ur technique with the good old texturing and uv-mapping (agghh, gives me the creeps that word--say UV and make me go pale :hmm: )
apollux allready mentioned something about the texturing used, but a little more in depth info would be great..
i mean light u can tweak, but good lookin texturing u have to have that "touch"---and it has to have that interfunctionality of the textures to give u a perfect finish(I spend the last 3days on my ship with testrendering and UV and alpha and this´n that map and and and :banghead: still looks like a 5cm plastik toy)
well just a thought

Apollux
07-11-2004, 12:45 AM
... and :banghead: still looks like a 5cm plastik toy)
well just a thought

LOL, if I were you I would save a copy of that shader for future use. :D

It is funny, but most of the time U are searching for certain look, and no matter how you tweak it, it still looks like made of plastic. But when you DO want it to look like plastic, it totally edules you and starts looking like paper, metal, clay or anything but plastic!!

As for the shaders used on Snog (forgive me @ndy, I'm just doing an educated guess here), if you look out for tutorials on how to model and make eye textures (sometimes called Pixar-style eyes) you will have pretty much all the technique down.

The one posted on the BlenderChar site is a good start, but quite bland. I would suggest this two instead:

http://www.3dtotal.com/team/tutorials/antro_eye1/antro_eyemod_01.asp
http://www.3dtotal.com/team/tutorials/antro_eye2/antro_eyetex_01.asp

Sychosis Dragon
07-11-2004, 12:53 AM
Thanks for that roundabout comment, bbirras, lol.

Oh, I also have a problem... Any time I start Blender up, I can't see the lights or the camera anymore, it wasn't like that before, I must've change a setting, but I don't know what, so if anyone can help me with that, that would be great. (I change the default settings, but the camera started to disappear waaaay after that.)

Apollux
07-11-2004, 01:07 AM
Let me guess: Your computer has an ATI graphic card?

Yes: Save yourself futher torture and download on of the pre-release versions of 2.34, seems like Blender and ATI will finally be friends on 2.34 and beyond.

No: If you really need to reset back into factory settings, search for a hidden file in your computer called. ¨.B.blend¨ and erase it. (They might be extra backup copies of that files around you hard disk, hunt and kill all of them ;) ).

But honestly, if your answer was NO, then it is likelly to be a non-blender related problem. maybe you changed/updated your graphic card's drivers or something :shrug: ?

Sychosis Dragon
07-11-2004, 01:16 AM
I'm not sure what graphics card i have, but i haven't upgraded it. I'm pretty sure it's not ATI either.

No idea...

bbirras
07-11-2004, 04:04 AM
But when you DO want it to look like plastic, it totally edules you and starts looking like paper, metal, clay or anything but plastic!! :twisted: blender can be evil.

@pollux- I´ve done those eye tuts...its not the eyes, its the painted texture which impresses me most, the perfectly wrapped around tex, propably prepared in one or the other paint-program and then uv-ed on this "bicho"--I don´t know...guessing and while guessing thinkin of the stiching I´ve to do on my ship...and I get sea-sick.(It´ll be only visible for a couple of sec.s) maybe I cut one out of any magazine, scan it and have a monty-python-like collage :p NOT)

thanks anyway apollux, but u did propably the same as I did: guessing on how it was done....
well I think my testrender is done now and I´ll have to go back to unwrapping, uv-ing, stiching and swearing.

IIIIII know , it´s only .blend ´n roll , :buttrock: :buttrock: , but I like it!, like it!.... yes I dooooo

bbirras
07-12-2004, 03:17 AM
oopsy...double post..my intend was to edit.. :shrug:

@whoever might be interested

long ago, in the dungeon of CGTalk, I bumped into this:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=6648


:bounce:


in 2.34 an unwrapper will make ; uv + easy= more fun

Sychosis Dragon
07-12-2004, 05:04 AM
When is 2.34 scheduled to be released?

brkn
07-13-2004, 05:28 AM
No date has been finalised yet, but it'll be heading into B-Con 3 (http://www.blender.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=3928) soon.

Sychosis Dragon
07-14-2004, 02:00 AM
Thanks, and where can I find out what's going to be different in this one? :)

brkn
07-14-2004, 04:55 AM
You can see what's in the current development versions (which will become the next release when they're fully finished and tested) over in the testing builds forum (http://www.blender.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewforum&f=18) at blender.org

Sychosis Dragon
07-20-2004, 06:26 AM
Thanks, I'll look into it:)

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