character: Innocent?

[xno]

Is it possible to get a closeup of the hands?

[DogmaD]

Ok, here is a hand screenshot:

http://home.hccnet.nl/h.legerstee/Images/hand.jpg

Hmmm..just removed the kink in the top of the ringfinger.

[Warhawk]

The model looks good so far. May I suggest to add some more individual planes to her hair to get some individual strands of hair . Also I think that armpit area is a little bit to thin .Also you could optemize the mesh abit more . You can easely get less poly without losing any detailes . Great work so far . I can't wait to see the texturing .

[DogmaD]

Ok, i have started optimizing the mesh a bit more. I have got it down 3314 ( - 73, removed a redundant line from the arm, removed a line in the shoulder and 2 lines in the chest area ), but i don't see many lines left i like to optimize.

I have also thickened the armpit a bit, not to much, because i don't want to lose the widening line in the sleeves. :)

I haven't changed the hair in front. I did try some more strands, but it cluttered the model and face. I also like the simple look it has now, so i will keep it like this for a while, adding strands is pretty easy later on. I did change the hair in her neck, as you pointed out the hair, i noticed it was to flat on the shoulders, so i gave it a little more volume.

I have a question. How do people handle alpha maps? I was thinking about having one 512 * 512, or maybe 1024 * 512 diffuse map for the body model and a small map for the alpha i will use on the dress and on the hair, but i don't exactly know how to handle this the best way. Any suggestions?

[mindrot]

Nice looking model there. I'm looking forward to seeing her textured up.

[Jody Sol]

Neat design, looks like something I'd do.

[gaggle]

Oooh, a bit of sensuous ass is showing. She looks nice, it's all very clean and neat. The proportions seems bang on.

I'm.. not sure how well those fingers are going to deform though? Maybe test those deformations before texturing to make sure you don't run into trouble later.

[Bustasnipez]

sweet model.. with the right textures this could be one kick ass character..
like for instance if mindrot were to texture it and make another bloody spycho chick straight out of the Ring.. that would rule.

[SebastianPatric]

Cool model. Could you post a wire of the head? I would like to see how the hair was made. For now, It looks more like a veil (and a veil might work here too). Once you get around to texturing, I suggest dark tones and an intricate knit on the dress.

[DogmaD]

Thank you for all the positive replies.
I have unwrapped the character this morning and am trying some different texture looks.

I am not sure yet if i want to go with all whites on the cloths or dark on top and light under it. ( all white makes bloodsplats look nice and dramatic, hehe :) ) So i am just testing some different things and see how it works out. I will post the character with texture on it later on, when i think its representable. For the moment, you will just have to do with the temporary texture. :)

I have also added the head wire as requested. I have also tested the fingers and hand for deformations, but for as far i can see everything should work out ok.

http://home.hccnet.nl/h.legerstee/Images/face.jpg


http://home.hccnet.nl/h.legerstee/Images/skin.jpg

[LeeSalo]

why did you model her scalp under her hair? That would seem to be a complete waste of valuble poly's. On that note how much of the models body is modeled under all the cloths? Unlees you have a plan and you need her like that it would be in you best interests to remove 80% of those hiddden faces.

[DogmaD]

Hehe, i know there are double polygons, but i have my reasons for it. Because i will use the model in a game i am working on, i wanted the dress and hair to be seperate objects. So the base model is hairless and dressless. The dress starts around the stomach area. The arms don't have a base model under them.

I did this to have some flexibility when i want the character to have different outfits. This way, i can create a new dress or hairstyle for the character pretty easy. The arms would be replaced and renewed with a new model. ( the character is for a rpg project, so outfits would be changed on a regular base )

The thing you remind me of, is that the hair, dress and sleeves should be in a seperate texture map. So that is something i will handle later on. I also have a new image of a texture test. I had some problems with the smoothgroups, but i will fix those later.

It is only a colour test, so don't comment on the textures yet, hehe. Only the colours. Maybe use some less dull colours?? I am still thinking of a contrasting colour to use, but havent figured out whats best yet, maybe more gold?


http://home.hccnet.nl/h.legerstee/Images/ch3.jpg

[Jody Sol]

Yeah, I could see something more gilded. Maybe deep red velvet for the dress beneath too. Check out "The Abominable Doctor Phibes" for some neat color schemes.

[corrupto]

I would love to see a corset on this texture. Also some nice lace :)

[DogmaD]

I have updated the texture map above. Here are two new renders of the current model, I still have tons of work to do on the texture. Tell me what you think up to this point. :)
http://home.hccnet.nl/h.legerstee/Images/r2.jpg

http://home.hccnet.nl/h.legerstee/Images/r1.jpg

[mindrot]

Looking pretty good so far DogmaD. Thought the hair texture seems to have lost all its detail in the render.

[Bustasnipez]

1. darken skin tone specially around eyes
2. make her a "zombie vampire"
3.make part of her face eaten away with some teeth showing
4. add some faint but grose looking veins on her face.

[GoK]

Looks dark enough around the eyes if you ask me, ace work !

Jody

[DogmaD]

@Jody Sol
Hehe, i have used the red now and it looks good. Also working on the detailing to give it somewhat more of an elegant dress.

@corrupto
Yeah, i want to detail the back of the dress with laces. Havent really started at the back yet, but the corset idea is good and i think it will fit the design as long as i don't make it look to kinky. :)

@mindrot
Yeah, I noticed the blur on the hair. It still needs some work, because the hairtexture is not perfectly alligned with the triangles yet. So the hairflow is a bit off around the top. I don't know why it is blurred. I thought i had enough texture space for the hair, but maybe not yet, i will look into it.

@Bustasnipez
Hehe :) I did have it closer to a zombie state before, with purple lips and blueish skin. But the thing is, I don't want her to look to evil ( and she did look really evil hehe ), I want to keep it kind of in the middle if the blood on her is hers or from one of her victims ( the blood could be from a bite in her neck ). She has been turned into a vampire recently, but her sanity and soul is not lost completely yet. So it has to be a bit in the middle, is she good or evil, victim or murderer.

It was stupid of me to already put a knife in her hands hehe, because she looks like she has murdered someone that way. When i am done texturing and start rigging and building frame animations. Her body language should be a bit disturbing in the sense you would not know if she has just attacked someone with the knife or has desperately tried to defend herself.

@Jody
Thanks :)

By the way, when this character is finished, i will start on a second one which will be totally evil. It will be a really grose zombie. In the story, she gets bitten by a vampire and her whole village is slaughtered. But hey, they are not dead, they revive and all want to kill her. So the next thing I will model is one of those generic village people who want to rip her apart in the game. I already have some funny ideas for the characters, hehe...

Thanks for the comments and I will do my best to take the texture to a higher level. It is my first low polygon model texture, so it takes a bit of getting used to. Getting the textures sharp and getting depth is one of my biggest problems, so if anyone has some good advice or outstanding tutorials on the subject, it would really help me!

[mindrot]

@mindrot

...I thought i had enough texture space for the hair, but maybe not yet, i will look into it.



Possibly add an extra texture sheet just for the hair....

[DogmaD]

The hair is sharp now. I have sharpened the textures and corrected the layout in the uv map. It didn't need more space, just some straightening of the polygons, to stop the interpolation.

I won't post updates yet, probably will post some screens when the map is close to finish. I did add the corset, looks fine on the character. Next things on my list are finishing the dress, and do some more work on the head. I am slowly getting a bit bored with mapping, so hope i finish it soon ( this week ), so i can move on to animation.

[DogmaD]

Finally an update. :) I am about finished with the texture map. Maybe some tweaks here and there. The next step is to rig the character. The image below is a link to a really big image. ( 440 k load, 2400 x 700 pixels)
Maybe i will send in an image with no lighting on it. So she doesnt have this ugly shadow between her legs :). And maybe a close up of the face, its pretty hard to see it all in this image.

Any of you have advice on how to rig the hair and the dress? I have never done something like this before. The only thing i have ever rigged was a gekko...oh, and a dwarf...

http://home.hccnet.nl/h.legerstee/Images/character2.jpg (http://home.hccnet.nl/h.legerstee/Images/character.jpg)

[gaggle]

Hell yeah, looks good. Nice colors. And the simple palette makes it stay in tune with your desire for simple and elegant, so that's good.

For the dress I assume your average chains of bones traversing down the length of the dress would do nicely. I think you just need to worry about the deformations first, ie get enough bones so you can get the cloth to bend in every direction, then afterwards you can come up with another rig that controls that rig.
..uh, I hope that makes sense.. :). Just that there can be a big difference in an animateable rig (fewer bones the better, possibly even IK), and a more deformation oriented rig that can have too many bones to comfortably animate.


Can you use dynamics? Either ordinary dynamics, if your exporter can handle the raw vertex changes and all that, or something more sophisticated if neccessary: it's a bit of a longshot (expensive setup time, especially if you haven't tried it before), but you can essentially apply dynamics to bones in Maya and still have the option to handanimate them when they need to go to a specific position.


There are some small details you can probably include with little difficulty at least. Like if you make a seperate chain of bones for her sleeves, then you can animate secondary motion into them when she moves. I think that'd be a neat option to have in the rig.. and I don't think it would cause too much trouble.


Again, she looks good. I'm looking forward to the day you breathe (animated) life into her. Should be good.

[DogmaD]

Thanks for the kind words and advice Jon.

I understand the dress setup you are talking about. It should work pretty well. I have just started adding the bones, so it might take some time before i finish the setup. The bones don't have to be light, i can use as many as i need.

I can do about anything to the character i want at this stage. I will export raw vertex data in the form of frames. Its not used that often anymore. Everyone exports the bone structures and uses a format to support this. ( because of various reasons ) But i will use an older format which will support keyframe animation. Simply, because it gives me enough options to work with and didn't take much time to implement. :) So, I can do as much dynamics in Max as i want, as i will just export the vertices in their corresponding position when the dynamics are applied.

I love the sleeves idea, i didn't even think of that, but now you mention it, i will give it my best shot. So thanks for that 2. ;)

[Slythis]

i like the model alot, concept is pretty good, your textures took some nice jumps there, great work, i really like the blood stains on her, its pretty evident she was bitten...and not politely, i'd put a few more down one of her arms and perhaps on her hands, maybe some flecks on her dress just to add a bit more personality to the texture, the dress just looks to mirrored right now, excellent work overall man, i'm loving this model!

[mindrot]

Looks good. The hair looks way better now :thumbsup:

[Grorum]

I agree, good work !

[DogmaD]

Thanks guys :)

I will have another look at the texture when i am done rigging ( For me it is sometimes best to give things a rest for some days and then return with a fresh look on things ). I know some parts of the dress look mirrored. The sleeves are actually mirrored. :) I will make some changes to the back of the dress later on if i have a more concrete idea of what might add to the dress.

I haven't had much time to work on the rig yet. The bones are in place, but that is about it. I am still trying to figure out the best way to get control over the dress and hair, without adding a lot of work to the animating and posing.

The way i have the bones at the moment is a couple of strands down the hair and down the dress. And one extra arm shape on the bottom side of the sleeve.

The biggest problem will be the dress around the knees. I want the dress to move with the leg structure in a acceptable fashion, but i also want some extra control, to overdo some movements to give things a little more style. So i am kind of stuck and trying to figure out the best setup, hehe. :)

For the hair i am still wondering what the best control would be to give it enough motion. I will probably add the main control on the bottom of the hair for some strands, which will lift it and move it around. These strands will be linked to some more global helpers to give better overall control.

I don't know, all suggestions are welcome, maybe its better to just try things with a cloth plugin...But i need control to make some overdone motions.

[DogmaD]

Hi all, not really an update, but more of a question.

I am about done with adding the bones and rigging the character and skinning is on its way. But one thing i don't have a solution to. Earlier in the thread we discussed using a second bone structure to control the lower sleeve, i have tried a couple of different things, but i can't find the right way to keep the shape of the sleeve and bind the controls over it so they move with the arm and i can finetune them after that with some secondary motion. Has anyone got a theory on how i should do it? The biggest problem when i just add 2 arm structures and move them with one helper is that the elbow joint for the sleeve part does not stay in place, because the cloth is at its lowest position at the elbow joint and a normal bone structure does not support this setup.

At the moment, the secondary motion is just not in place, maybe i should try some flex on it to see if it moves in a nice fashion. Anyway, any suggestions would be great. :)

[ill_logic]

afraid i'm not much help when it comes to rigging. have you tried an influence object maybe?
i know you're getting this pretty late in the process, but i figured i'd contribute. she reminds me of the girl from the ring in the first textured pics, but she's looking better in the last couple. the face looks really nicely done, though i don't know about the hair really, seems plain & kinda low res. details on the overcoat kick ass! overall, good job. keep up the great work!
-J

[DogmaD]

Didn't work on it for a while. The rig is almost finished. But i don't have much time to work on it. To busy with other things at the moment. So i thought, lets post an update before i forget. The lighting is max lighting, nothing special. The aura and shadow is photoshop. And the blood on the knife is photoshop, i added it later on, because i was to lazy to add it to the texture and re-render. :)

I hope you guys like it as far as it is now with the pose and all, i hope she has some more character to her this way. Maybe she is not so innocent after all..Hehe.

http://home.hccnet.nl/h.legerstee/Images/pose.jpg

[Grorum]

whoa, cool pic ! :thumbsup:

[dtrimble]

Whoa, nice work on this. Reminds me of some japanese horror, silent hill/the ring kind of thing. My crit would be that some strong contrast lighting on the face would make her seem a little more intimidating. Or maybe a textured shadow projection may be cool to use on her, and pretty easy to do in max. What it would be doing is simulating the grime and dirt on a barely working flouresant bulb casting some erie lighting. Just an idea:shrug:

[DogmaD]

Thanks for the positive replies!

dtrimble, yes, i know i could do a lot more with the lighting. But i wanted to have a bit of a look which could be achieved in a real engine. Thats why i have used very simple lighting and very simple material properties. So it would stay true to a look which you might have in-game. The only thing which would be a little hard now in-game is the aura as it looks now. But it is certainly not impossible. If you look at the new vampire the masquarade auras it can be pretty close. :)

So i might make a new version which has all these fancy lighting solutions, but i would feel a bit like a cheat, because i would be doing things you would not see ingame in any engines in the near future. :shrug:

But i will try to achieve some more contrast in the face. Maybe move the light a bit more down and a bit more to the side.

[Kyan]

Beautiful! It's cool to see your progress with the textures, you really brought her to life...or, urmmmm.;)

Are you currently involoved in making a game, or is this for fun? Would love to see more.

[DogmaD]

Thanks. :)

Yes, i am working on a game. Well, actually, i am still programming the engine for a game i am working on. Its all solo at the moment, i am both programming, designing and modelling. So its a bit busy, hehe.

At the moment i am working on a portfolio site, but its still under development. I might finish it in a couple of weeks. Next to the site i am working on an editor in 3D studio max which will allow me to export levels and objects from max to a totally compatible format for the engine i am also working on. Didn't work with maxscript before, but it is a total piece of cake so i am making good progress. ( got a lot of experience in C++ and DirectX, so scripting is childplay )

The modelling i do on the side when i get totally sick of programming or when i need a break from school. hehe. But at the moment there are two game concepts i am thinking about creating. The first one is really content intensive and is the vampire game accirmo. Its about a girl who has been bitten by a vampire and is between her vampiric state and human state.

She is not that strong as a vampire yet, but the idea is she is slowly gaining control of her powers. As a vampire she can manipulate peoples emotions. This, however also happens when she is not conscious of it, because she hasn't got enough control over her power yet. Making people around het go crazy and do weird things. So the game is kind of a psychotic ride in which she will be a vampire with a soul where you get the choice to go totally insane or try to recover from the vampiric state. The setting will be jack the ripper kind of London.

The second concept is a lot less content intensive and i will use it first to test the engine capabilities. It is based on the movies battle royal and battle royal 2. I thought it would make a cool concept for a multiplayer game. If you don't know the concept, go see the movies, part 1 is really cool, hehe. :)

So i am still programming the engine and this is my main objective for the moment. It will probably be in a totally usable state in about 6 months. Then i will create the game battle royal, which will be sort of a engine demo game. With one island and about 8 different characters and about 20 weapons. If all goes well, i should have some friends creating more content for accirmo and i will personally be working on it on and off, because i love working on it, when i have the time for it.

[Kyan]

:eek: That's alot of work but it certainly looks and sounds like you have the talent/skill necessary to achieve what you're going for. I certainly look forward to the development of your work.

The setting will be jack the ripper kind of London.
It's exactly what I thought of when I saw your model.

[Dene of Terror]

just wanna say i think this is really cool!!!:thumbsup:

[DogmaD]

Thanks guys. :)

Dene of terror, your aegis project looks promising. I hope you guys keep working on it and we will be able to see some cool sci-fi animations in the future. :twisted:

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