Spiderman suit

[Daniel-B]

I too would like to know how to do this.

[EricChadwick]

Looks to me like a standard unwrap. But then using a quality 3d paint program and hand-painting a series of high-res maps.

Cinefex (http://www.cinefex.com/index/90-01.html) probably has something about this. I might go dig it out...

[leoCesar]

I definably agree with you Eric on the use of a quality 3D paint program, because the framework of the net suit requires perfect positioning. However, do you think they used something like BodyPaint3D to get the job done?

[Creed]

Why do anything by hand anyway when you got $300+ million dollars to play with?
They probably laser-scanned the actor with the Spidey suit on, getting a 3D representation
of everything, texture color and all.

[Daniel-B]

I think I remember reading in Cinefex that in the first Spiderman, the webbing was added during the render. I can't remember if there was an actual texture or not. But I am making a CG spidey, and I have NOOO idea how I am going to do the webbing on his suit.

[Creed]

You should read some of these short papers on the making of the Matrix. Has some stuff
on seamless UV texturing:
http://www.virtualcinematography.org (http://www.virtualcinematography.org/)

[EricChadwick]

do you think they used something like BodyPaint3D

Probably something internal/proprietary, something that handles higher bit depths. Or maybe AmazonPaint. I can't remember who worked on that film. Digital Domain and ILM have their own custom paint systems, IIRC.

From what I read in Cinefex, the effects houses almost always re-model their character meshes, since scanned data is not animation-friendly nor does it deform well. It seems they often use scanned meshes, but only as 3D reference for re-modeling. The color texture you get from scanning is not very helpful, too much lighting. Besides, you need other layers (transparency, reflectivity, transmission, diffusion, etc. etc.).

Anyhow, I don't work for a movie fx house. It's just interesting to me, mostly because I see the game development community heading in the same direction (many of the same production strategies are already there).

[EricChadwick]

Found the Cinefex article.

Sony Imageworks created the digital spidey, starting from work by Costume Designer James Acheson and silkscreen specialists at Martin Izquierdo Studio. They airbrushed patterns on a white unitard stetched over a lifecast of Tobey Maguire. Then they stretched it out flat and photographed it.

"Imageworks artists Yakov Baytler and Marzette Bonar digitally generated a grid of tiny rectangles from this image, squashing and stretching rectangles to define muscle shading, and created muscle and color maps. Izquierdo then broke the design into 120 separate silkscreen patterns and applied the textures to the spandex."

"To ensure perfect seams on the model, digital artist Daniel Kramer generated textures as a subdivision surface, an algorithmic technique that creates streamlined shapes as refined 3D polyhedral meshes. Shader artist Sing-Choong Foo incorporated the digital trompe l'oiel design that James Acheson's team silk-screened to the practical suit, mapping this to the subdivision surface, and created raised web textures as a RenderMan line primitive, procedurally generating the complex geometry at render time."
So there you have it. No mention of the software they used. But essentially hand-designed procedural geometry mesh-cages, which are then subdivided at render time to provide smooth curvature.

They mention later that they cyberscanned the Green Goblin, but used it "mostly as a guide" to model it "virtually from scratch."

Interesting approaches. I highly recommend getting a subscription to Cinefex. It's pricey, but every issue is packed with great behind-the-scenes data.

[leoCesar]

So, here is the process I understood.




The 3D Spiderman model is a subdivision surface
They mapped the model with the silkscreen reference (the web suit)
Created 3D lines in the right positions of the web
RenderMan procedurally creates a subdivided mesh using the line as a guide at render time


Is it correct?



Uol! That is really a different approach, but really out of my personal means unfortunately. Thanks a lot for showing me the info behind this great character design Eric!

[leoCesar]

Sorry, I forgot to tell you that I saw a TV program showing the creative process of the intro cinematics sequence in “Spiderman 2” PlayStation2 game.

As I realized, they did not use the Sony Imageworks approach, the suit is all about textures and displacement if I am not mistaken.

The studio behind the cinematics is “Tigar Hare Studios”

[Daniel-B]

I should just probably give up on creating a CG spidey. I have no idea how to create a seemless webbing on the suit.

[leoCesar]

Do not give up until you solve the problem, give it a time and try to create your own solution Pixel. There is no right way to achieve one visual in CG. Research and the solution will pop up in no time.

Good luck

[Creed]

They used Maya.

And I already offered a link to seamless UV mapping if you didn't notice.

[leoCesar]

I did noticed Creed, but the “pelt” technique they talk about it is still in experimental stage. Therefore, it has no practical use to us yet.

[ivo D]

why not model the web on the suit...?
i would do that, since in real life its just rubber lines over the suit, so just model the thing on the character, and link it, so it will just deform right when animated.. no difficult texturing and such

[leoCesar]

That's another way out :) (Time consuming, but possible).

[ivo D]

you can just make the front and back modelled, than use a cloth simulator, with some gravity in the right direction, and let it fall onto your modell, without to much stretching, and you are done, attacht the front and back.
for creating the mesh , you can just draw it in illustrator, import it, (will be spline with curves) than make a mesh of it, extrude and, chamfer the edges and center, and meshsmooth the thing, and thani think you should have it just right

[leoCesar]

I would love if you made an example out of what you told me. I would appreciate that a lot, than you could spread the word to other people :)

Thanks again!

[ivo D]

wel ill explain it in steps.

if you have 3dmax, you can import illustrator files.

you just draw your webbing in illustrator.. for the front and the back.. separate files.

import them both,

than convert them to an editable poly.
so they become a mesh.

than use the shell modifier on them (max6)
otherwise mirror duplicate in x ax,.

than select all the top polys, and bevelk it, or what ever looks nice.

than just let your mesh fall on your model, with simcloth(plugin)
or use reactor cloth.

[leoCesar]

I'll give it a try, thanks IVO!

[ivo D]

no problem

here is a quick test example for you, to illustrate what i mean.
maybe ill make a good one when i have more time.

but i think youll get the picture..

[leoCesar]

Wow! I tried and got good results IVO! You’re the master!!!

Of course, it needs a little tweaking, but its better then try to model the net by hand.

Thanks again!

[mr. travis]

You should read some of these short papers on the making of the Matrix. Has some stuff
on seamless UV texturing:
http://www.virtualcinematography.org (http://www.virtualcinematography.org/)

this is interesting, not so much for the pelting part but that it just puts a blend map over the seams... that always seemed like an obvious step to me to add some blending functionality for seams one way or another, but I don't think any commercial solution has done that yet?

[EricChadwick]

Texture Layers for 3ds max has attenuation between UV sets, a similar approach. I found the workflow a little odd, but do-able. Should improve soon though.

http://www.mankua.com/texturelayers.cfm

[ivo D]

yea .. texture layers, had it once.. not the legal way , but ow well..

i just stay with what my software offers, caus the industrie wont give me every plug i want hehe.

but the spline uvw creation was awsome, just cant understand why no program has put it in yet, and that it just has to stay aplugin feature. the options where great, and would really be helpfull with a mapping like this one, for a web.

also using blend textures would be nice.

never done it, so is this right how i think it works

you make all yuour materials, with the nasty seams, make them overlap each other a little.
than for instance you have your chest and hips.

you make a blend material, open both the materials in them. set a ramp mask in between them.

than open a new material slot, throw your whole blend material in the difuse slot of your new one, throw it in your bump also, or make another on with bump maps, and get that one in there, and you are done, for your basic blended material right?

ow srry for the long text :S

[EricChadwick]

Yeah, that's the basic idea. Here's a tutorial from Neil Blevins that explains it pretty well.
http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/map_channels/map_channels.htm

Texture Layers is cool in that you don't need to make masks, it uses attenuation gizmos instead. I only saw one other spline-style mapping system, but it was pretty simplistic and anyhow their website is gone...
http://www.teapotsolutions.de/3ds%20max%20plugins2.htm

TL also has FFD mapping, pretty cool stuff.

[mr. travis]

texture layers sounds cool, and yeah I agree, what's with the lack of standard intelligent features like this? I don't really like the pay $10,000 for a primitive modeler and additional $$$ for every other button and plug-in in it... I'm assuming because it used to be a niche industry where they could get away with doing this to movie studios or huge commercial clients but nowadays it's just a bit out of proportion when a desktop can do this... but whatever, there are more reasonably priced solutions for what they do like blender, wings, silo, zbrush, etc...

[leoCesar]

The CGI industry does not care about small studios or production houses when it comes to state of the art effects and visuals.

Take Maya for instance. You have basic features like modeling, mapping, animation, and so forth. But if you want to create complex rigging systems, reactive animation and particle controls, you’ll need a Technical director (TD) to extend software functionality or create in house software solutions (see Massive in Lord of the Rings = Maya in pipeline + thousands of scripts and bits and pieces of software all around).



Now lets focus on the small studio, normally you do not have a TD to customize your “out of the shelf” software, so you stick to basics and don’t do fancy effects.



That is why commercial 3D software will not implement the “intelligent” tools that they stumble upon in the industry. They keep the software architecture open to those knowledgeable technical people out there.

[ivo D]

partially true.. in 3d apz there are to many things just not updated over the years, and uvw mapping is one of them.

if something is so usefull in every day 3d work, and can be totally upgraded and done different with a better way of working, see texture layers as the example we have now, than i would sya, just implement it.

like massive etc.. yea that is something we dont need really, and all the fancy rigging stuff for very complex extra deformation when hitting etc.. yea we will just do that with a deformer or by hand.. but things like uvw mapping, and modelling tools should just be looked at, it would be about time...

[EricChadwick]

I have to say Discreet has actually implemented a lot of third-party tools into the core app. I'm not going to name all the examples, there are too many. The open scripting and plugin architecture is one of their key strengths for me, it allows the tech-savvy to create and sell/distribute tools to others.

[Daniel-B]

Getting back on topic, has anyone successfully mapped a Spider-Man CG model yet? I have NO idea how to do the webbing. If I could figure out this webbing, I would make the model avaliable to everyone. Fully rigged and everything.

[ivo D]

just uvw map it, and unwrap it, and texture.. at the seems, use a blend map when needed.

first look how you could split up your model , what would be the best going with the web texture, than just try to make a good uvw mapping.
you could also make the whole web of splines folowing the body(time consuming but looks maybe the best. than make it a rederable, mesh spline,than make it to edit poly, and flatten it, so it aint like round tubes anymore

[aazimkhan]

time to bring this thead up - i am trying to UV map my spiderman - its killing me.

I got it unwrapped and painted the web, but cant get it to work seamlessly.... my seams are meeting up at the top and back of the head and getting messed.

ppl interested pls join in and figure out a way. I will next try to take it to deepaint and paint it int there and bring it back to PS to refine

here are some shots ( dont mind the skin and eyes :P) very early test.

http://www.aazim.odhn.com/sp_txt/1.jpg

http://www.aazim.odhn.com/sp_txt/2.jpg

http://www.aazim.odhn.com/sp_txt/3.jpg

And here is the map, oringal size is 3kx3k will incluide the whole body (jjust going hi-res)

so yeah please any and all feedback welcome.

http://www.aazim.odhn.com/sp_txt/map.jpg


THANKSS!!!

[ivo D]

just make different id spots. to make it very easy, but than it has to fit really good is to do everything with planner maps.. but you could now try to do a bid planner map for the whole top of the head, and littlje of the back. if it all get really to irritating than just get texture layers try that plugin, it rocks.. it aint free, but its all over the net if you know what i mean ;)

[Creed]

Is your head model perfectly symmetrically?
Is your uv map perfectly symmetrically?

That uv map doesn't look symmetrical to me. It just makes everything a bit easier and faster to do when working with uvs.

[aazimkhan]

hey CREED, I had been working on a sysmetrical map too, this is my second attempt,
UV wrapped symetrically. I am very close to having a seamless web , check it out and lemme know

http://www.aazim.odhn.com/sp_txt/sp.jpg

And here is the half-reduced texture map.

http://www.aazim.odhn.com/sp_txt/main3.jpg


Any and ALL comments welcome -

[aazimkhan]

based on the UV unwrap and same texture file i created a bump and spec map.
plus some quick setup for the eyes, I`ll model the stuff around the eyes for final

again here are more test render shots

http://www.aazim.odhn.com/sp_txt/new1.jpg

[CrossFire]

looking good!

[o Darkone o]

Thats looking wery cool , but keep in mind that Spiderman is not an adult , hes like 19/20 ... dunno for sure . Just make him look a bit younger :thumbsup:

[CrossFire]

Hey aazimkhan (member.php?u=1019), can we get some pics of the maps?

[aazimkhan]

spidersuit update :
check my spiderman WIP thread
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=154555

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