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weasel.acuh5o
06-22-2004, 11:40 AM
hi all,

posted this one in the WIP forums, but since noone replied I think it's either so horrible everyone's afraid to say it or it's just to mediocre to comment on it. well, I'm reposting it here since I'm sure there's pretty of things you won't like.

about the tank:
I am going for a lightish scout with communications equipment like satellite uplink, radar and so on, basically a support unit with a small machine gun. it's gonna be app. 2.5 meters high, six legs, no pneumatics whatsoever, just actuators (or servos, whatever you prefer). I'd like to keep a pretty funktional look, nothing that is armor-plated all over. the other side of the leg (this is the backside) hasn't nearly as much detail as this one, somehow I got to save some weight...

it's still in a pretty early stage, this is just the template for the legs. I just started working on the main torso... but I wouldn't want to work too much ahead without getting some opinions, perhaps the overall concept is just no good. so please feel free to point out everything you don't like. thanks in advance.

florian aka weasel

http://weasel.acuh5o.com/images/2004_06_21_v69_002_600px.jpg

http://weasel.acuh5o.com/images/2004_06_21_v69_001_600px.jpg

and if you care to see, here's are the bigger versions (http://weasel.acuh5o.com/images/2004_06_21_v69_002.jpg), and the second one (http://weasel.acuh5o.com/images/2004_06_21_v69_001.jpg).

weasel.acuh5o
06-22-2004, 01:21 PM
sorry, just noticed that I forgot to post some wires. only problem is that I somehow can't turn of wireframe smoothing (I'm a newbie, please be gentle), hope this'll do as well. work on the wires isn't finished, got to manually make quads of some of the main parts... :shrug:

http://weasel.acuh5o.com/images/2004_06_21_v69_002_wires.jpg

SlashTen
06-22-2004, 02:14 PM
I wouldn't make the second to last leg joint parallel to the floor. If you angled it up some it would appear to support more weight.
The level of detail is really good. However, there are a couple places that look sort of flat. You could add some grooves or some little rivets just to break it up a little bit. It may be that the picture isn't big enough, but there also appear to be some edges that are not bevelled. Every edge should be bevelled, even if it is just a tiny bit.
Keep it up. I want to see this thing animated.

/slash

weasel.acuh5o
06-22-2004, 02:43 PM
thanks a lot for the reply! I'll make sure to add some more detail to the flat faces. I forgot to mention that this pose is just for modelling, I'll pose it after I finished the torso. hope to get to this point in two weeks... :p

davhub
06-22-2004, 08:32 PM
Hi Weasel.. mm it looks well detailed
I agree with SlashTen... bevel the edges..
and... py attention to the textures and material definition it could be a nice piece for sure! :)

keep it up!

Davhub

theledge
07-05-2004, 08:27 AM
This is looking cool

possible vary the depth of the leg sections they are all the same, as said before the section that are just flat planes just let it down a little.

is there a pic of the overall design, this is going to be tank right?

possibly a little fragile looking, maybe some armor plates in certain areas.

feralghost
07-09-2004, 03:17 AM
awesome detail work, ditto about the edges. Do you plan on adding flexible hoses, hydraulic hoses?

weasel.acuh5o
07-09-2004, 07:35 AM
so, here we go... blocked out most of the tank. everything on the torso is still in a pretty early stage, the turret ist about 80% done. legs aren't final either, these are just the templates for the different versions. much more to be done... and yes, the front part does suck. I'm currently looking into that one.
but I rigged it (quick and dirty) so you can see what I'd like the pose to be at the end... and I still haven't bevelled all the edges. I'll keep that till the end, makes changing things a bit easier.

feralghost: I'm not too sure about hoses, I'll try to stick with pipes. I think it gives the thing a more tank-like appearance, and since I'm not going to use hydraulics but servos I thought it'd be nice to have none at all for a change... :rolleyes:

what's still missing is the 'organic' part, for example I plan on strapping some backpacks, rolled up tents, helmets and so on on the front of the walker.

I hope I didn't render it too dark... I'm still a newbie, so bear with me.

thanks in advance, weasel.

http://weasel.acuh5o.com/foo/mlt/posed/2004_07_09_001_posed_800px.jpg

http://weasel.acuh5o.com/foo/mlt/posed/2004_07_09_002_posed_800px.jpg

http://weasel.acuh5o.com/foo/mlt/posed/2004_07_09_003_posed_800px.jpg

here are some bigger versions (1280x1024 each).
foo 1 (http://weasel.acuh5o.com/foo/mlt/posed/2004_07_09_001_posed.jpg)
foo 2 (http://weasel.acuh5o.com/foo/mlt/posed/2004_07_09_002_posed.jpg)
foo 3 (http://weasel.acuh5o.com/foo/mlt/posed/2004_07_09_003_posed.jpg)
foo 4 (http://weasel.acuh5o.com/foo/mlt/posed/2004_07_09_004_posed.jpg)
foo 5 (http://weasel.acuh5o.com/foo/mlt/posed/2004_07_09_005_posed.jpg)
wires (closeup) (http://weasel.acuh5o.com/foo/mlt/posed/2004_07_09_007_posed_wires.jpg)

feralghost
07-09-2004, 10:56 PM
you might want to think about a human size model next to it to give it a sence of scale

weasel.acuh5o
07-09-2004, 11:17 PM
feral: yeah, I need to do something like that... the only problem I've never modelled something a human. sounds lame, but this is my second model so far (did a head last time with uv mapping and (some) texturing, so I think I can pull this one off too), so modelling a human as an addition may take quite some time. my initial idea was to put some backpacks, helmets and other thing a normal soldier has to carry on the front segment. first, to add something more organic to the image, second to get some scale into it. I think a clearly visible helmet would be kinda nice (and would make a nice beginning for an animation or an turntable view)... additionally, I wanted to put the final renders either into some environment (which would define the scale) or put it on a base (like a collectible) with some detailing (ruins, maybe a tire, something like that). any better ideas or suggestions?

uhm, before I forget: the legs are about 180cm high each, the whole tank probably about 260-300cm.

feralghost
07-11-2004, 03:00 AM
ok it doesn't have to be a human, and it doesn't have to be a perfected model I just meant it to see the scale, bacause right now it looks small. How many soldiers do you think this vehicle could carry?
4,6,8 a dozen?

weasel.acuh5o
07-11-2004, 08:28 AM
ok it doesn't have to be a human, and it doesn't have to be a perfected model I just meant it to see the scale, bacause right now it looks small. How many soldiers do you think this vehicle could carry?
4,6,8 a dozen?

actually, none at all. frogot about that, very sorry. It's an autonomous ai controlled tank. no soldiers at all, just some installed equipement (like communications) and exchangeable 'containers'. these containers are quite hard to make out in the renders, I'll color them the next time so you can see them (there are currently six on the last segment behind the gun and one in the middle between the legs... not sure about that one though). I modelled them so the clamps holding them, the joints and so on would work... I'm thinking about making a shot to show how they work, but this could take quite some time... :rolleyes:

davhub
07-11-2004, 09:59 PM
Hi Weasel, excuse me, but why this AI autonomous tank has to carry
on his back and not motion functional components helmets and backpacks?
I suggest you two things that could help you to emprove your
final resutl (to be precise.. it's very well done, guy!!)

first try to imagine it out of scale such as a "big big" tank
more than the biggest now produced.
in this model you could put details and the turret is the heavy weapons
place...

the second version could be not a tank but a servo mechanims for incursions:
quite small, on a ahlf way between a exoskeleton and a normal tank.
could be used to offer coverage fire for normal soldiers...

think about this.. it's heavy weapon equipped and it's AI... it does not
need to carry backpacks at all!

great enhancements form my last visit of your post!

DHP

Markski
07-11-2004, 10:09 PM
I love all the small technical details you added to it. Once the maps are in, it will look super-duper. Forget exoskeletons and whatever. It looks very cool so far.

davhub
07-11-2004, 10:19 PM
mmm I see it could be alittle misunderstanding...

and Markski helps me to define them..
exoskeketon... Did you read or see A ghost in the shell
(masamune shirow??)
well Fuchicomas were used as exoskeletons
but, being AI gifted, were used as tactical units
for support and action coverages...

I see this superb model at two scales:
1) like quadripeds in Star Wars (if i remember rightly in The empire strikes back) (not less)
2) as fuchicomas and the likes not human scaled but a little more..

hope to have been clear
davhub

Dene of Terror
07-11-2004, 10:44 PM
hi, first off i just want to say that i like where this is going.
ok..the crit....

1. even though this is a light scout i think it really needs some form of covering on its more vulnerable parts (doesnt need to be armour...just a covering)
2.the 'head' of this tank really needs to be a lot more flexible. as it is it looks like it can only look up or down. if it's to perform its purpose of scouting, it really needs a flexible neck.
3. perhaps..instead of a 'head' you could give it a telescopic sensor mast that can extend quite far into the air? this would massivly increase it's capability as a scout.
4. i dont see any cooling grills to dissapate the heat from the power source.
is this intentional or am i missing the point?

as to the problem of scale...maybe you could include some sort of hieght chart? easy as hell to make. much more so than a human.

-Dene-

weasel.acuh5o
07-12-2004, 12:50 AM
first, thanks a lot for all your comments. I'm new to 3d, so your opinions really mean a lot to me.

second, there were some (minor) misunderstandings. this is probably because english isn't my mother tongue, makes things more difficult than I imagined... :shrug:
but this post will hopefully clarify a lot. I included colored renders, and tell me, who does not like those? see, not just and awful lot to read, no there are images. :)

dave:
first try to imagine it out of scale such as a "big big" tank more than the biggest now produced. in this model you could put details and the turret is the heavy weapons place... the second version could be not a tank but a servo mechanims for incursions: quite small, on a ahlf way between a exoskeleton and a normal tank. could be used to offer coverage fire for normal soldiers...

thought about both of it... and both seemed intriguing (I favored a really tiny version... about half a meter high). I ended up with this one for some reasons: first, in the very small version detailing would have been a bit more difficult (stuffing tiny things with modelled details is a bit harder than doing it at this size, besides, I had no good ideas for textures). second, I wanted to do a tank that was at least a bit different (read: not armor-plated without end, no hydraulics, probably no hoses...), so I ended up with this design. servors would look pretty unrealistic with a huge tank (think 50m high) and since this is meant to be something for an application (for studying design) I wanted to somewhat show off which excluded the low-detail miniversion. guess we'll see how this one works out.

Did you read or see A ghost in the shell (masamune shirow??) well Fuchicomas were used as exoskeletons but, being AI gifted, were used as tactical units for support and action coverages...

I love ghost in the shell, and the ai side was somewhat inspired by the first manga/the movie (same story). less the talkative tachikomas of stand alone complex but more the animalistic, menacing side like in the first movie. no talking, just observing, thinking ahead, a very 'machinelike' reaction to the environment, yet a somewhat organic movement (think of the fuchikoma in the movie when it's being shot at)... I kinda like the idea. how about you?

now dene:
1. even though this is a light scout i think it really needs some form of covering on its more vulnerable parts (doesnt need to be armour...just a covering)
2.the 'head' of this tank really needs to be a lot more flexible. as it is it looks like it can only look up or down. if it's to perform its purpose of scouting, it really needs a flexible neck.
3. perhaps..instead of a 'head' you could give it a telescopic sensor mast that can extend quite far into the air? this would massivly increase it's capability as a scout.
4. i dont see any cooling grills to dissapate the heat from the power source.
is this intentional or am i missing the point?

concerning the armor you are right. the 'body' will be plated within the next weeks (got awful little time for this, exams ahead), I _roughly_ marked the places in the image below with a very nice pink. I might ad some more armor to the legs in the process of customizing them (each pair will be a bit different), not sure about that yet. all in all I'd rather go for a less armored look, please see the rewritten desciption of the tank below. :)
the head, the head... I'm not too sure we are talking about the same part. I don't really intend to make one part stick out from rest, but the thing that comes closest to a head would be the turret (wich can rotate all around and move pretty far up). to make things easier for the other users I included everything concerning his perception down in the summary as well... if I got you wrong please tell me, I'd be happy to talk about it. cooling grills are planned but currently only modelled on the front segment (which houses the reactor). You can't make it out in the 'colored' image, I'll post a closeup as soon as I finished that part (I'm currently at it, hope it won't take too long).
btw, looked over you sci-fi thread, looks very interesting, nice concepts... I'll make sure to read through it within the next few days!

now, the fun part. beware, this

nicely colored version (http://weasel.acuh5o.com/images/mlt_colored1.jpg)

might burn your retinas. and the perspective is anything but good, the figure meant to be a scale is too big (you can't make the size of it out in this perpective anyway). I guess this one doesn't matter enough to play another round of 'me not saving and maya crashing', at least not today. maybe tommorow I'll replace it with a better view.

now, to get (finally) to the point. this tank is meant to run around as technical support, scout and light material transport for a group of about a dozen soldiers some 20 years in the future. it's about 260-300cm high including it's turret with two medium guns. it uses technologies that are (perhaps) quite common at the given time, for example servos for movement (replacing pneumatic and hydraulic systems) and (cold fusion? dunno) reactors instead of the outdated combustion engines (red in the image).
communicationwise it's equipped with a everything that could be fitted, starting from common optical sensors to radar, long-range communications with other troops, satellite uplink for live feeds of the terrain and so on. the more common and important sensors (video, micro...) are mounted on the turret (guess you found that part. since I still had one of the standard colors left I made it green anyways, so you better look it up :)) but since it uses a broad palete of input devices the turret's not neccessarily 'looking' at anything interesting or important. think of a machine that simply knows what's happening around it instead of having to actually look for it.
the tank can be equipped with diffent kinds of equipement through a system of standardized cases for the containers(yellow in the render). that normally means one computer/comsystem placed in the middle segment of the torso which can only be changed/opened in military bases and such. six more containers on the back segment of the tank are normally filled with more practical things like ammo and food for the troops and general equipement. those can be (mechanically) lowered/rotated for easy access (and better armor during normal operation) in the field by the tank.
what else... hm, the space on the hood (marked blue in the image) can be used to strap some less sensitive equiment (like tents, backpacks so the troops don't have to carry them) to the tank without wasting space in the containers.
as a sidenote, a friend mentioned it'd be cool if the legs could be 'dropped' in case of a major failure. not all, but I think it'd be a kinda cool thing if the tank could drop i.e. one of the front legs to get (crippled and slow, but better than nothing) to the next base... wonder whether I could put that in one of the final images. any objections?

well, hope this clarified the whole thing a bit. I'm sorry if I didn't do this earlier, didn't notice how much I left out in the first description. if anything is still unclear and you want to know about it feel free to ask... :) and thanks again for you opinions. I'll probably post something new next weekend.

webhead
07-12-2004, 01:17 AM
First let me say that the detail is incredible. Good modeling!
My only crit, and it may be personal taste more than anything; is the structure of the legs.
The foot of the leg seems too tall and looks like it could potential get locked up in the upper section if the machine crouched enough on uneven terrrain.
Again, that is just my observation. Still, nice modeling there! :buttrock:

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