wonderful woman

[Ivars]

It looks great!
One thing though: her feet are a little small.

Will you colour this?

[art7sayan]

Great pic of wonderwoman! I like her pose and the way you did her hair too , just one thing seems odd: her foot...maybe a lil' bit flat...
Anyway, you got a great line work on it, post us more!!! :wavey:

-Art7sayan-

[jeroentje]

Yeah, her feet are too small.

Try to keep this in mind:
A face is 1/3 of shoulder to shoulder.
A hand is as big as a face.
A foot is 1,5 times a hand.

cheers, jeroentje

[black_fish]

No her feet are not too smal. They are small, as any woman feet usually are, but they are not TOO small.

Oh and Jeroentje I don't know where you got your proportions but they are pretty out of whack. A woman is definitely NOT 3 heads wide on average, and as for the hand being as big as a face, put your hand over your face and you will see that you are wong (except if you think the face is only between the chin and the eyebrows). That being said the 'face' is never used to measure anything. We always mesure in 'heads'.

Besides this drawing is obviously not realistic in any way. I don't really see the point in discussing relative sizes (so that makes this post pretty much useless... hehe). I understand that some people don't like the feet and that's fine with me :) I wanted some advices and ideas and critics about the design, the composition and the general style.

Ivars: I will maybe color it.

Thanks for all your comments, wether about the feet or not ;)

[Ivars]

If you wasn´t looking for crituiqe on her proprtions, but rather on the design, maybe you should haved stated that....

by the way, even though girls feet are a bit smaller than mens, I would stiil say these are far below avarage. A foots length is the same as from elbow to hand (aproximatly).
Sorry, maybe you didn´t want to hear that, but it´s directed to everybody else who reads this thread ;)

Finally: It´s a great style, very comic-book-kind-of-thing-ish.

[Kirt]

Woooo ... touchie!

You know, I'd take jeroentje's critiques to heart. The guy knows how to draw a woman. He's right on several points here. The feet are roughly the same length as the forearm (elbow to wrist), width of shoulders is three heads wide and the face is the size of the hand (wrist on chin -> tip of fingers on top of forehead). Give or take a few centimeters for abnormalities and mutations of course. :D

Funny, no one mentioned that her shoulder looked dislocated. But, I guess that's not important to the "style".

If you're going to get so defensive about a critique then let everyone know up front that you're posting just to "show". That way, we can all give you a pat on the back and move on to someone else who is interested in learning something.

... on with the proverbial "pat".

I like the way you did her hair. The pose and costume design really express her amazonian heritage (I never did care much for the boots ... a wild woman should always be barefooted).:)

Good job! Now lets see it with some color, please. :thumbsup:

[jeroentje]

hm... maybe a little misunderstanding.

1 I really like this piece. And would love to see it colored. Great pose. Love the hair. Sorry for not mentioning that and being so short.
2 Yes you're right about measuring in heads. But IRL shoulder to shoulder is 3 heads. Even for women. In comic or other style you can play with all that. That's what makes drawing fun.
We can also keep this discussion in Dutch BTW. Remember not everyones native language here is English.
3 A hand is still as big as a face. Put the bottom of your hand on your chin. The tip of your fingers will almost touch your hairline.
Or maybe you have a big forehead or a big chin or small hands. It's roughly. No one is the same. This was not crittics on your piece btw.

And please keep posting.
cheers, jeroentje

edit - I still think her feet are too small and lack shape. Sorry but that's just MHO.

[black_fish]

I'm sorry guys I don't mean no direspect or anything like that but I don't agree with your proportions. And I'm not making that up. Check: http://www.fineart.sk/page027.gif
This is from Andrew Loomis book which is an absolute reference for human figure drawing. He is saying that the female body is at the widest point TWO heads wide (not three). You can also see that the hand is considerably smaller than the face and the foot is by no mean as long as the forearm! (What a strange concept).

That being said I'm not being defensive or anything. My drawing is far from being accurate and far from being even good. I really appreciate your comments and believe me I am not trying in anyway trying to defend it. What I'm trying to defend is anatomy and what I learned about it. I learned from Loomis and other classical artists. I don't know if he is right or not, but I just wanted to say I wasn't making that stuff up :)

I hope I'm not misunderstood :D

[jeroentje]

This is from your link. I copied in the red things myself.
So we're both right. This is what I meaned.

Cheers, jeroentje

[Ivars]

Have a look at this i took the liberty to scribble upon that reference pic.
It´s quite odd having a proportion reference wearing HIGHHEELS!!
Anyway. You´ll have to concider that she´s wearing those shoes, and her feet will therefor look alot shorter.....
And for the widest part being 2 heads: They obvioulsy can´t count correctly. Just like I can´t spell or make my self clear :p

[Ivars]

Hey Jeroentje: You were doing the same as I :buttrock:

[jeroentje]

Hey Ivars; two minds, one thought LOL
BTW, the hands in the refpic are too small. Put your own hand over your face. Or over your lower arm and you'll see. Yes indeed women have smaller hands. But these are child hands.

I have heard that name Loomis before around this board? Who is he? BTW, I know not any guy who is build like the guy in ref. pic http://www.fineart.sk/page026.gif
I am not build like that, and I am a big guy (1.98M, 95kg).

cheers, jeroentje

[Ivars]

I figure these refs are semi-comic, slighthly exagerated or something. Or simply just incorrect :rolleyes:

[jeroentje]

And one last comparrisment:
1 drawing from real life = 50 drawings without real-life ref.

After having said that, I really, really hope black_fish keeps posting his drawings, he is more then welcome to do so.

But I also hope he gets a bit of a thicker skin, crittics can learn you a lot man. Sometimes people can be right. And if they're not... at least think about what they say before you put the critts besides you.

cheers again, jeroentje :beer:

[Kirt]

Using someone else's drawings for anatomy references probably isn't the best idea in the world. I know there are masters at this stuff and the Loomis name is probably one of the most often used reference works.

However, I feel there is no better substitute than a life model or photo references if you're shooting for accuracy. The hand and foot thing doesn't sound correct until you do an actually comparison. But, it is more than 90% accurate on most people (like I said before ... give or take a bit for mutants).:)

Let's use Mr. Ziggy Stardust for an example on the hand-to-face comparison ...

[Ivars]

Now here´s a problem with photos. His hand willl look bigger because of the perspective.
use your self, and friends for reference. Tell your brother to stend up and spin around, or hold his hand over his face.

[Kirt]

Well, I think as artists our eyes are good enough to tell when perspective is really going to be a factor. In the David Bowie image ... it's not going to matter much. The point is still valid. His face is roughly the same size as his hand.

Another point to be made here is that someone who is reviewing your portfolio is probably going to pick up on things like this as well. After you've seen a few hundred portfolios, if something strikes you as odd you'll make a note of it.

I don't think we're trying to be overly critical of the image ... it's just that something is "odd" about the proportions. We're only pointing it out so that black_fish takes advantage of the opportunity to improve his image before someone important (such as a portfolio reviewer) takes a look at his work.

The image is very good, but a few minor improvements could make it 200% better.

This is what I saw as "odd" in the image ...

1. proportions of feet
2. two right feet (the arch of the foot only exists on one side)

[black_fish]

I give up.

[Kirt]

Yeah, don't give up so easily. Really ... we're just trying to help. You don't have to agree with the points made here. If that's the style you want, then that's the style you got. You did a good job with this image (and I think that's been said many times now).

Sorry if anything I've said has discouraged you ... that was not my intent at all. I'd like to see some of your other work too.

[jeroentje]

black_fish, I have seen your website. It has some gorgeous paintings on it. But even the best people can make a little mistake now and then. You're not always right just because you're good.

I have had crittics here on my own work from people with not even halve my skills, who still made an excellent point about things... so what? I hate that for a few minutes, take a better look at what they say, and start thinking they might have a point. If it can teach me something... :shrug: Be open to it. You'll improve. I know I did.

And PLEASE don't let this thread scare you off from posting. That was certainly not anyones intention here. Most certainly not mine anyway.

cheers :beer:

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