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leigh
08-12-2004, 06:31 PM
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=161414

:buttrock:

newone
08-13-2004, 09:21 AM
Again, congratulation for everyone. I have a little question: is there a chance to know the result of the public voting? I mean, which entries were among in the top 50%? It could be great :)

GoldenGrifon
08-13-2004, 09:37 AM
Yes. What about rating of other works?

ioio
08-13-2004, 11:39 AM
Hallo, I am really supraised of the winners results of the machineflesh 2 D. It seems that you don´t promote the new, fresh vision of concept design. Main works you´ve chosen are secondary, and do not discover or show anything new. There were another works which contained much more of visionary and fresh ideas. Also more fantasy in the way of painting. Everything, what I realised, you´ve chosen works, where the main theme was just violence, blood, uglyiness. I have nothing against a bit of cruelty in concept, but those kind of esthetical visions are too literal. In my opinion evil can have more subtile dimension, can it not? It is worth when one's sometimes use a metaphory to express themselves. To sum up, I have'nt seen anything more than I`ve seen before in comics for example. The more it is astonishing, that there were entered people like Richard Dumont, David Freeman, Panu Uomala, Andrey Lazarev... They introduce some fresh quality into the contest.It would be better if the contests like this would promote the creativity and developement instead of tendency.

Anyway congratulations to the winners

CLONEOPS
08-14-2004, 08:27 AM
ioio:
me 2
but the vote is done.finit.ended....done with.
make ya wonder sumtimes donit.

Renderman_XSI
08-16-2004, 10:24 PM
When is the next contesting going to start??? hopefully next month..

Maxbar
08-17-2004, 09:15 PM
Yes bring on the next one.I hope to enter.My bet is just after Olympics,first day or so around September 1? Are you moderaters deciding on the next one now,getting sponsers etc,etc.?Alright thanks for any clue.:thumbsup:

techart
08-18-2004, 07:24 AM
new contest pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
I'm anxious for the next one........I'm ready for the battle......My tablet is dieing
are you there yet?....?????.......
:cry: :cry: :cry:

Snotblow
08-18-2004, 05:48 PM
ioio:

Well after reviewing the winners I agree with you. 1st off congratulations to the winners. BUT...when reading the rules under the Machine/Flesh challenge I distinctly remember the idea of original concepts...not some gun carrying human-like machine-like thing. I read the word "Original"....but my definition of original must be different. A lot of the winners and runners up seem to have themes I've seen expressed a thousand times. But maybe the weight of their ability to render the art overrode any original concept that had been brought to finish. As far as I'm concerned the more original the concept the more weight it should carry. As for me...if I were judging or buying art I wouldn't choose a re-hash of a them done over and over...I'd look for originality in concept. But then again maybe i'm just a sore loser. I wanted to send out a couple of congrats to squibbit...I found his idea more original than most...and the person that did the stick walking people in the pond...very nice...there were many others but I cannot think of them off the top of my head. Ok I'm outta here...I look forward to the next CG Challenge in which I'll try to stay in the mainstream of thinking...maybe I'll have a chance...

adamghering
08-18-2004, 09:35 PM
I am obviously too late for this challenge but want to participates in the challenges. is this the only one going on right now? When I pick the challenges section it just shows me archives and this is the only active one. Whats up?

techart
08-19-2004, 07:44 AM
we are waiting for the next contest from a while......the main problem was to see the winners from the last one.......so..if the waiting is a quality of yours..here is the place....just jokeing.......no contest is available right now........just hopeing another one to start....

cheers

Squibbit
08-19-2004, 08:06 AM
thanks ioio and snotblow , I know how you feel , both your
works were on the original side too , and I much appreciate
seeing your entries develop.
No matter the results of the voting ( which also didn't happen according
to the original rules I think. I remember reading the public vote would
drop half of all the entries and from the remaining 50 percent the
judges would choose the best. Now public votes counted 50 percent
in the final judging as i remember being said here. I might be wrong, sorry)
it was great to see many different ideas and pictures ,
stuff that feed the imagination and give birth to yet
even more bizarre and wondrous thoughts and creations.

I ain't gonna jump in the mainstream in the next contest , I'm
just gonna try to make a better image :)

techart
08-19-2004, 01:01 PM
good thinking....the final image is what is counting...is gettin' to the personal portofolio first as all


approved :thumbsup:

arman
08-21-2004, 03:03 PM
Cong. to winners but I'll never enter another CGnetwork challenge again. Cause I beileve that voting system is not good enough..it's not fairly..

Mibus
08-23-2004, 12:59 AM
arman: How so?

We've tried to make it as fair as possible, and I'd like to think we did pretty well. If you can think of a way we can make it better, we'll take it under consideration for the next challenge :)

essencedesign
08-23-2004, 02:22 AM
I don't know if this would work, but how about letting those entered in the contest have there own specific top 10 run down to determine a percentage of the final tally (like the 50% public you did with machine flesh) the only catch being that you are could not vote on your own image, right ???? Then send it off to the judges. ??? Probably an idea that coulden't be realized, but the only reason I bring it up as is that we all follow the creation of these images from the other artists. Where as a "public" vote would be less likly to look into the full process of the creation. Am I wrong in thinking that these were WIP contests,,,,or was it purely judged on the final image,,,


Just one cgtalk users input...no direspect intended,.... and thank you for continuing to put up these challenges.

~J
Peace guys, I'm not trying to step on any toes with this post,,,I love this community!!!!!

Kylebrn
08-23-2004, 04:55 AM
Pretty good idea Essencedesign.:thumbsup:

How about this: On the voting process:
I was thinking that a process alot like they did over at 3Dtotal for contests would work well.
I think that all the entrants could vote,plus CGtalk members with at least 50 posts as well.I think it's a must to have the community,the true blue contributers be allowed a voice.
All interested in voting could choose there top 15 let's say.The top pick recieves 15 points,then second gets 14 points,and so on and so forth to the 15th pick which gets 1 point.All voters will post these results in a vote thread,viewable to all.
Then the people with the top 30 overall point totals of the peoples vote can be given to the private jury for the official vote.So you get two votes,a "peoples choice" and a "CGtalk official vote"!!!
Oh and how about besides the final shot only,the contestants could also show "10" more detailed shots or extra money shots to go along with the final shot?
So how does this sound? Cool,or off?:)

Mibus
08-23-2004, 07:32 AM
Kylebrn: We thought about doing it that way, but sorting through 100+ images, choosing 15, then ordering them, would be such an ordeal... not to mention it would be quite a bit more technically complex for us to maintain :)

essencedesign: There's nothing stopping artists from voting on their image... but no, we haven't weighted it any more than the non-artists. We'll think about it :)

FWIW the final "official" scores usually turn up being extremely similar to the public voting scores...

Thanks for the feedback guys! :)

arman
08-23-2004, 09:13 AM
Kylebrn: We thought about doing it that way, but sorting through 100+ images, choosing 15, then ordering them, would be such an ordeal... not to mention it would be quite a bit more technically complex for us to maintain :)

I think we deserve this attention.:rolleyes: Members who have under 50 posts in this forum shouldn't vote. Or we have a big trouble in voting like pumping votes by new members who just registered to vote his friends works..:sad:

Kylebrn
08-23-2004, 11:29 AM
Hi Mibus. I could count up the votes/points for you when the time came.:)

Basically I would write/type down all the artists names.Then go through the Public vote thread and one by one count out the numbers.
For example: I would look at the first voters order,give 15 points for the first voters top pick,then on to the second pick of the voters list,give this artist 14 points,and so on all the way to the voters 15th pick which would recieve 1 point.

Then on to the second voter.Eventually with all voters picks in I would tabulate/add the scores.Then the top 15 artists with the highest point totals could go to the jury,and they can then add there 50% take on the entire thing.Still giving the jury members a very large say in the process,but still giving the people/community a great say.
I could go through each voters selections in about 1 minute,using a cross index solution.I figure even with 600 voters just to throw out a number,I could get this done in 10 hours,give me three days and the thing would be ready to hand over to the jury for there 50% say.
:)
Either way you guys are doing a great job,I just want to see if we can do something even better.Just the some thoughts,don't mean to step on any toes.
Ok, :thumbsup: or no :rolleyes: .
:)

Siladar
08-23-2004, 04:39 PM
Mibus & Co.


I wasn't even in the contest and I'm wondering how some of these votes came up.

I have to agree with these guys that some spectacular, original idea artwork didn't even make the cut. Particularly in the 2D event. In this contest I thought the major factor in determining a winner was originality of concept and interaction across the boards. And personally I don't think hardly any of the top rated works were all that original.....Ila and the Cow excepted of course! In the 2D event you've got some big monster with metal looking claws and a guy shooting it. Yep! That's an original concept. The artist did minimal posting on the boards of his WIP and progress and didn't seem to get all that much feedback.

I think you need to make a judging system. If a person wants to judge the works then they need to judge all pieces of art. They get a score for each part you think is important. How many posts did the artist make? How WIP did they post? How much feedback did they get? How original was the concept? How well did they layout their scene? Was the color selection good? No. It's not an easy task. But once the system is in place then you've a surefire way to make the contest a fair one. If the main factors in the contests are originality and use of color...then you simply apply a multiplier in those catagories. Then when all is said and done....you publish the scores for everyone. That way the artist gets some useful feedback on his work. All they got out of this contest was...you didn't win. Why? What was wrong? Bad concept? Poor drawing/modeling? Concept just not in line with the contest? Picture just doesn't look finished? That way everyone would win something.

Just my $0.02 worth.....

I'm eagerly awaiting to hear word of what the next contest is. I didn't find this one until much too late to get in there and produce something worth while.

Kylebrn
08-23-2004, 10:04 PM
And while I am at it I was wondering if the next challenge topic is already being considered/planned?

Are the wheels in motion with sponsers?
How about a tip or clue on what the next theme will be?;) Ok if you cant give an answer for this last one it's OK.But how about my other Q's.Thanks.:)

MrFreeman
08-23-2004, 10:46 PM
Deary me... I don't think I've ever entered a competition where so many people seem unhappy with the results....

I've learnt a hell of a lot from all you talented people...and yes there are some entries that I thought would make the top few who didn't....but art is so subjective (and with so many people from different creative backgrounds), that's life I guess - so stop complaining and be happy for those who won.

Bring on the next challenge so we can all have something positive and new to look forward to. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

JamesMK
08-23-2004, 10:59 PM
How about a tip or clue on what the next theme will be?
Though I'm not at all affiliated with the organising parties, I can confirm that the next theme, and I quote, "will ROCK."

Kylebrn
08-23-2004, 11:35 PM
Though I'm not at all affiliated with the organising parties, I can confirm that the next theme, and I quote, "will ROCK."
Your word is good enough for me!:thumbsup: :)

Mibus
08-24-2004, 02:13 AM
arman: You'd only just be able to vote yourself :P

Kylebrn / Siladar: I'll suggest it to Leo, but it really depends on the timeframe of when we start the next challenge, compared to what else we have to do.

Kylebrn: It would take less than 10 hours to change the current voting system to handle voting like that... we tried having the scores public with the AW challenge, but it Really Didn't Work. (People would just vote for whatever was already popular!).

Siladar: Unfortunately, I think it would scare away alot of people who might otherwise want to vote. Choosing five scores for over a hundred images, including actually looking at the WIPs and everything, is a huge amount of time. I still think it's better to allow people just to vote for the WIPs that they would have been following all along anyway. (For the most part).

Anyway, thanks for the feedback; We'll make sure to discuss it before the next challenge but I obviously can't say if anything will change :)

I haven't actually heard what the next challenge will be myself, but I'm sure I'll find out once Leo is back at work... All of you entrant-types will have to wait for the public announcement ;)

Mibus
08-24-2004, 02:22 AM
FWIW, I also think that the entries were more original than you give them credit for... OK so I'm not an artist, I may be missing some stupendously obvious "prior art" for the images, but...

Take francis001's image for starters:
http://cgnetworks.com/challenge/machineflesh/entry.php?challenger=2138

Sure, it might not have won - possibly because it doesn't have the same flashy visual impact of the winner, I don't know. (I wasn't involved in the judging itself; but the public voting usually shows up "flashy" images first). It may have drawn on other work (a book is mentioned in the WIP posts), but to me it's a good example of the more original art that was entered for the contest.

And of course, that cow was absolutely brilliant :)
http://cgnetworks.com/challenge/machineflesh/entry.php?challenger=2038

CLONEOPS
08-24-2004, 06:59 AM
Though I'm not at all affiliated with the organising parties, I can confirm that the next theme, and I quote, "will ROCK."

...stop doing that...every time i see it my neurons remix to a syncopated rythmn...
and my tea spills....there it happened again!
r.o.c.k da house ya!ya! uh huh..oh yah!! :buttrock:

Siladar
08-24-2004, 03:27 PM
Don't get me wrong. All the winners had nice pieces. No doubt about it. And I've loved that I can toss in my 2 cents on the composistions as they were progressing.

It just seems like several of the more original pieces I've seen didn't even seem to rate an honorable mention. I mean really. How original is a 3/4 naked woman in a picture? You can go down to the store an get that in a magazine. I feel the same about some guy shooting a gun at some big alien looking monster.

I guess I feel that everyone was judging the pictures based on different criteria than me. I thought originality was the major thrust of the contest. I could be wrong....it's happened before....I just can't remmeber when though.

markw7
08-24-2004, 04:48 PM
How original is a 3/4 naked woman in a picture? You can go down to the store an get that in a magazine. I feel the same about some guy shooting a gun at some big alien looking monster. I guess I feel that everyone was judging the pictures based on different criteria than me. I thought originality was the major thrust of the contest.

Another major criteria was process and, for me, watching Blackarts piece become more and more refined was very cool. Inspiring really. Technical ability was no doubt in the mix too.

Squibbit
09-01-2004, 01:50 PM
So I dunno where else to post , but when exactly
will the next challenge be announced ?

Leonard
09-01-2004, 09:53 PM
Hi all,

Next challenge will be in late October/November running through to early next year. Sorry for such a big delay in between, but the MachineFlesh Challenge almost broke the camel's back. The challenges have grown to the point now where it's futile of us to try to run them without additional resources (i.e. I actually need to hire someone to manage the challenge).

So reality bites - the next official challenge will only be in late October.

Leo

Siladar
09-01-2004, 10:19 PM
Excellent! We shall now stop pestering you! Ermm..I hope!

Sil