all my uv questions

[jeb]

1_ Save the meshmooth for the end. when you texture and rig you have to keep your model in the base low res mesh, This is even more important when exporting the uv layout with texporter or similar... if you meshmooth the model with any iterations then the uv layout will be smoothed too and you wont be painting in the exact uvw coordinate, you will be painting in an offset space. also you will have to collapse the uvmap.

I recomend keeping your model as editable POLY because then the quads wont turn into triangles in the unwrap window.

2_ Kinda...things like cutting polys keep the coordinates in the polys..but adding more do make little problems since this new polys are created without their own coordinates. so try do keep texturing for the end, but if you really need to add polys then try to map them similar to the rest of the object. i do this manually ba adding amy kind of pertinent mapping to this polys and then place tham manually in their places (all this in UVW unwrap)

3_use a raytrace material and also a map in the environment background for it to reflect. if there is a plain color background then the reflections will be flat too. try using espherical mapping in the map.

4_dont understand your question !!??


Use a checker mapped material to see any stretching in your UV´s

[hpslashluvr]

oh darn. I spent some time using a map on iteration 2, I was looking at Julian J's tut on his texturing, it looked like it was set pretty high, but I guess he didn't really rig his model later on so maybe it wasn't a prob. So...even though I will have a smoothed version later, just texture at iteration 0? that would make life SO much easier...but it seems that most tuts texture higher?

Also, what I mean about changing the model was moving vertices on the model. That would just mean I have to move the verts on the map too right? nothing would be lost?...?

Ok, about the raytrace material...that would solve my problem. I was rendering on a plain background, so that would be why there wasn't a wet look.

About the rendering...I was trying out Brazil Rio, which only renders like up to 500x500 pixels I believe. So my render previews obviously were coming out pretty small, because the actual picture was. When I changed back to the default max renderer, the preview was still 500x500 even though the actual picture was bigger. I was wondering how to change this so that the preview is the actual size of the picture rendered? I can post a pic if no one understands.

[Tantramancer]

You can just collapse the modifier stack after meshsmoothing which basically makes your meshsmoothed version the new level zero. That's fine if you are sure you don't need the lower rez base level anymore. That's what I do.

I agree with Jeb. Keeping the model as an editable poly does make alot of things simpler. I go out of my way to avoid making triangles anywhere. They usually cause too many problems in rendering or in further meshsmoothing. Also, even though editable poly objects can have multi-edged faces of any number they can sometimes cause problems too. I just try to avoid it all by modeling strictly with quads.

For good eye models try this tutorial out (eyes are on page 5):

http://cal.jmu.edu/ratner/tutorials/2/

It's similar in technique to how I like to model eyes. The clear hemisphere part over the base eyeball gives a nice realistic 'wet' look. If you want the first part of that tutorial series on modeling the complete figure (really good modeling tutorial!) the first part can be found here:

http://cal.jmu.edu/ratner/tutorials/1/

For the render size problem did you change the output size in your render dialogue box? (press F10 on keyboard to bring it up) You should be able to change your size there once you've switched back to the Max renderer. If not, then I don't know what's up.

I do use the full version of Brazil RS but I only know enough to get by for tests and experiments. I usually leave final rendering for other people since I mainly concentrate on the modeling and texturing end of things. I might know enough to answer simple questions on using Brazil if you have any. I know more about setting up materials and shaders using the Brazil materials than the other areas of the program where I'm a bit weak on.

[hpslashluvr]

OK I spent a long time trying to figure out mapping b/c I'm not very technology-minded. ;) Anyhow, the only way I could figure out how to smooth the mesh after was to collapse the mesh smooth (which automatically made it into editable poly??) and apply a smooth or meshsmooth. How come meshsmooth works on poly? Anyhow I'm sure this isn't the way I'm supposed to do this.

[Tantramancer]

I'm not very technically-minded either. I come from more of a fine-art background in illustration and sculpting prior to working as a videogame artist. I had very little computer experience before getting into that field. I tend to work on intuition so learning the nuts and bolts and technical jargon hasn't been easy.

Once you've converted an object to an editable poly it will always stay an editable poly until you specifically convert it to a different type. Merely collapsing your stack won't change that.

What version of Max are you using? I assume you are using Max since you mentioned you are also using Brazil which I don't think works with any other program just yet. I know Max 6's UVW editor is real good. They improved it alot from previous versions. If you are using an earlier version of Max you might want to look into getting a plugin program like Right Hemisphere's DeepUV to do your UVW edits. It's much faster for that kind of thing than the basic unwrapping tools in Max 4 or 5. Max 6 has alot of similar timesaving features already incorporated into it.

Not sure what you mean by 'How come meshsmooth works on poly?' Could you elaborate on that a bit?

You have a good start on that face. It would be interesting to see a wireframe screenshot of it to see the flow of the lines if you have time to post one.

[hpslashluvr]

well, originally it was a mesh, i changed it to poly

using max 5, unfortunately i have spent enough (in my opinion...plus i am a teenager so this is all for fun anyhow) on max...i figure if ppl managed w/o plugins then i can too...or else i would have *thinks happily* shag, something like zbrush, maybe maya unlimited, brazil, deepuv, etc

about the meshsmooth on poly, gah i know it must be some stupid noob thing i did...anyhow how do you smooth polys? smooth modifier? it doesn't seem to work well either way. so i tried meshsmooth on top of all the other modifiers and it seemed to work...but i'm sure meshsmooth is for regular meshes, not polys

if you could help with the lips area i would be very thankful...i know it is wrong in that area but i have been looking at this model wayyyy too long.

please help with color of base shader, this is all just for testing as I have not quite finished model yet
this is just a default shader with a basic MSPaint color map to test the uv coordinates
i heard you should have red and blue shadows, but it looks strange

the original shader is bottom right

if someone can explain stahlberg's toon shader to me, or any way to get rid of hard shadows

http://hpslashluvr.50megs.com/images/together.jpg
http://hpslashluvr.50megs.com/images/side.jpg

here's the mesh, it might be skewed a little as i had accidentally moved some points...i know i need to fix the flow
http://hpslashluvr.50megs.com/images/mesh.jpg

[Tantramancer]

Meshsmooth is just fine with editable polys. An editable poly is only a special mesh type. No need to second guess yourself there. Keep using it - you've got that right. I think because it has 'mesh' in the name that it's making you doubt yourself. Be sure your using the NURMS smoothtype mode too.

The lips don't really seem bad to me. Not sure if you are working from a reference or not. The upper lip seems a little thin for a female but people do have thin lips sometimes. Take a good look at your reference or if you don't have one try hunting up a good photo to work from. A really kick-butt reference is an anatomy book by Andrew Loomis. It's been out of print forever as far as I know but fortunately someone gave me a link to a site that has every page in good quality JPEG format. I grabbed the whole set. Plenty of great images to help in roughing out the proportions of a model.

http://www.biometric.free.fr/loomis/page_01.htm

It'll take awhile to download them all one-by-one but it's worth it. Loomis rules!

Now that I see the shaded versions with eyeballs in place the spacing of the eyes stands out as a little bit wide. Try pulling them in slightly. That's about the only thing that stands out to me. I want to say the brow ridge could be a bit stronger but that varies so much from person to person that I would have to see the reference images and it's also still in a pretty early state as well.

You have a good start on the geometry. I don't see anything that stands out as being wrong. It should clean up real nice as you complete it.

Here is a link to an interesting tutorial that uses a somewhat unusual approach to the standard methods of using reference images to model from:

http://www.adamwatkins.com/s3_tutorials/s3_03.htm

I only used his technique once a few months ago and it was pretty cool but then I started using ZBrush and now I'm totally hooked on using ZBrush for 90% of my modelling. They have a free demo for download of ZBrush with an unlimited number of 30 day renewals for learning purposes. The full version cost me about $470 but I think they have a student price for only $200 something. If you get time you should check it out. Since you are just starting out it's good you are trying to get a good foundation in a program like 3DS Max. You planning on getting into the games or film industry eventually?

Color for the shader really depends on the lighting setup. It can look good under one set of lights but terrible under another. Even in games I find I can't use exactly the same skin shader with each game. I have to see a character running around on a couple of levels first to see if the skin color needs to be made warmer/cooler, lighter/darker or more/less saturation for the lighting situation.

For the hard shadows you just may need to use more lights for some soft light fills into the shadow areas set low in intensity. Some people use as many as a couple dozen lights or more for a single figure.

Not sure about Stahlberg's toon shader. Best to ask him directly. He usually seems quite willing to help out and answer questions.

[hpslashluvr]

a problem is that when i download zbrush and run it, the prog says that it is date sensitive. so....it won't let me in? :banghead: must be something wrong i'm doing again...

I wish I could work in the industry, well, any industry related to the arts, but my family is in a tough financial situation now and I sort of have this responsibility to provide for them. CG doesn't seem like the greatest or stablest way... :rolleyes: I'm still in high school now, I'm a senior and have a year left to go. Even if I did get in with my limited art experience (although I'm not bad at traditional drawing) to perhaps Parsons for design or Ringling for anim, I couldn't afford it. So I'm planning to attend University of Texas at Austin - 4 yrs would cost less than 1 yr at an art school. The problem is that I hate math, computer programming and mathematical sciences, which practically rules out every paying situation out there.

I persuaded my mom to let me attend a one/two year school like vfs after UTAustin (btw I thnik it's strange that they actually CALL you when you ask for a brochure...)but even vfs is expensive. Perhaps in five years when I graduate I will be much, much better at this...*sighs miserably* How did you get into doing this stuff? How'd you land a job?

[Tantramancer]

For the ZBrush demo: either in the install or on their website there should be instructions on where to e-mail a request for a 30-day unlocking code which they will send to you. At the end of that 30-days you can request another code and so on. They let you do that indefinitely for evaluation purposes. I used the demo for about 3 weeks then after hearing about what cool new features were in version 2 I cleaned out my wallet and got a copy of version 2. The current demo version I think is 1.55 which is pretty cool but there were huge improvements between that and version 2. The CG team at WETA during the making of The Lord of The Rings were largely responsible for the improvements made to version 2. There were alot of CG orcs modeled with ZBrush in the Return of the King. I've been hearing rumors that soon a demo of version 2 will be available for people wanting to evaluate the improved version. It's amazing how fast it is for modeling. Something that used to take me a week to build in Max I can now do in ZBrush in a single day and often more accurately and with greater detail. The speed is really incredible. It really frees you up to be more creative.

Poke around on this ZBrush forum to see some good examples of what can be done with it. Alot of newbies and hobbyists as well as seasoned professionals:

http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

Parsons is a great school. I was offered a partial scholarship there and my mother and I went to check out the campus before I made up my mind as to which school I wanted to go to. Even with a partial scholarship it was still too expensive for me. I was also offered a full-scholarship to the Art Institute of Pittsburgh which is what I ended up taking. I considered going to Ringling years later after my other schooling to continue my education but then I got an art job and that was the end of school except for teaching part-time classes in life drawing and painting at a local community college.

I assumed you were already in college but if you still have another year of high school to go there is a scholarship program you really should take advantage of:

http://www.scholastic.com/artandwritingawards/index.htm

This competition has been going on for many years. I entered the portfolio part of the competition in my senior year in high school and was offered 6 different scholarships. I think the deadline for submissions is somewhere between November or January of your senior year. This gives you several months to plan out and assemble a killer portfolio for entry into the competition. I'm sure your parents would have no trouble with you going to a good art school if you managed to get a free ride on the tuition all on your own. Take advantage of the summer months to get as much done as you can and make use of the critiques available on CGTalk to get good feedback on your work. I've been doing some volunteer artist-in-residence here in Vegas at a local high school for one of their computer arts classes. The face you've done here is much better than most of what these seniors are capable of and they are supposedly in an advanced class. I have a feeling you won't have any trouble getting some kind of scholarship through that competition if you get started and serious about it now.

[Tantramancer]

As far as how I got into the business: after college I started off as a sculpter in the art department of a foundry making reproductions of classic sculptures in clay, wax or epoxy which would get mass reproduced by casting in bronze or molded in plaster and sold to people for yard decorations or in parks. The pay sucked but it was an incredible learning experience that really honed my skills. After a year of that a video game company that saw my portfolio at my graduation called me up out of the blue saying they were finally ready to add a few new artists to their team. This was like 10 years ago. Max was still a primitive DOS program and being able to have as many as 256 colors in a PC game was a relatively new thing. I didn't need to know any computer stuff at that time. They just liked that I was good at illustration and sculpting. Most of the software they were using at that time was created in house by their programmers. I started off working as a concept artist and 2D animator. All our game art was hand drawn frame-by-frame then.

Gradually as the industry went more into 3D and there was less need for 2D animators I became a texture artist and then started getting into a little bit of modeling too after awhile. I had to learn everything on the job which has some advantages and disadvantages over learning it in school. After about 7 or 8 years there the company took a major turn for the worse and went out of business.

I started freelancing then and moved out to Vegas to be with my girlfriend. The freelancing I've found is too feast or famine for me. Sometimes I'm rolling in money and other times it may be a month or more before I pick up a good commission. I know I could market myself better but I'd rather go back to working in a studio again. I miss collaborating with other artists. Now that my girlfriend and I have broken up there is nothing keeping me here in Vegas anymore so I'm getting my portfolio together and preparing to find another full-time position at another game studio.

Austin is actually one of the places I'm seriously considering since many of my friends who I used to work with ended up at game studios there. Austin is like the capital of game developer cities. There are dozens of game developer studios there. Plenty to choose from. There's a couple companies in Austin that have given me plenty of regular freelance work over the past couple of years too. I'm keeping my options open though. I wouldn't mind going to California or Seattle also but I know more people in Austin so I hope I end up there sometime this summer. I should have my portfolio online sometime within a couple weeks. Soon after that I'll probably get a headhunting agency to help me in finding a job then.

[Tantramancer]

Don't give up on the idea of getting into the CG business. The games industry alone is a mega multi billion dollar industry - bigger now than the film industry. Salaries are real good compared to other art jobs like desktop publishing. Check out Gamasutra.com for info on the games industry. Every year they post salary information broken down by field of specialty and years of experience. It might help persuade your parents to let you have a go at it. A good artist with a nice portfolio right out of college can get a CG job starting at $20+K/yr with the likleyhood of regular and sizable raises. After just a few years if you are a good artist it's not unreasonable to expect to double your starting salary. The industry is pretty transient though. Expect to have to move around frequently from studio to studio. It's pretty common for a company in the games business to go out of business with little warning or lay a whole team off if a project gets canceled. That's the nature of the business. As long as you keep your portfolio up-to-date you can ride the wave from one island to the next.

Talented creative artists who also have the ability to learn and operate complex sophisticated programs like Max are hard to come by and in great demand in the film and games industry. I've seen alot of people who either are just 'techies' - they can learn software real good but have no real creative talent or are very talented artistically but hopelessly braindead when it comes to learning the tools they need to do great CG art. With the right mix of both you'll have no trouble finding work.

For artists the strength of your portfolio and a proven ability to use the software is more important than a diploma from an art college. Most art directors couldn't care less what school you graduated from. Their decision is going to be based largely on the strength of either your video demo reel or web-based portfolio. Any freelance work you can manage to do while still in college or participating in collaborative projects like some of those offered here on CGTalk would have alot of influence on an art director too.

[Tantramancer]

Sorry if that was a bit much to read through. Sometimes I tend to ramble on a bit much. Most of my friends know when it's time to slap me on the back of the head to get me to shut up.

[hpslashluvr]

No no no....I don't mind! Watch me beat you on ranting!

I really would like some input on how to assemble a portfolio for that scholarship...I actually knew about scholastic but I figured it'd be really hard. They didn't specify what type of financial aid they gave either. I am really working hard this summer on 3d as well as 2d art because I decided to drop International Baccalaureate (sort of like AP if you know what that is, except it's twice as much work) to take art again. I really regret not taking it earlier, but I got the position of drum major (conductor) of my high school band last year so I didn't have room in my schedule.

I've also quit band and French this yr to take art...two things I liked a whole lot...to take a double block AP art portfolio class. I regret not taking art earlier because although I view myself as highly creative and above average I do not have as much technical ability as my classmates. By that I mean I can draw but I just started using prismas and paint for the first time really in my life this year.

I feel frustrated because I KNOW I have more creative ideas than my classmates (even if not very good ones, still better than theirs), but their artwork comes out much more better. I mean, everyone chooses "people" as their portfolio concentration. If you aren't familiar with AP that's where we get to shine with our own personality. (The breadth portion of the portfolio is for technical stuff.) I want to kick people who end up with better AP grades simply because all their concentrations were boring renders of people's faces.

Haha, sorry for my little rant. Another thing I want to kick people for is the "computer" piece that 2d (senior) portfolio students do. This is done all in Photoshop. I have no experience in Photoshop at all, but...it's like...they're so happy cuz they put two photos together and some words... :banghead: I'm like OMG you idiots go look at the people on *insert 2d digital art website*. *sighs* I really have this urge to learn Photoshop this summer and show them that digital art is not just uploading digital pictures!!!! They don't even do anything to them really!! Just perhaps overlay one picture over the other! I am so surprised that after all those years no one has done actual digi painting for that project. I am starting to learn Photoshop now but I have a very poor mouse and no tablet.

I think my expectations are too high for what I need to make in terms of money. I think it was part of growing up with two working parents who each easily made over $100,000. Of course, they didn't make even close to that at first, only recently. My mom quit Texas Instruments though, and my dad got laid off. Now you're probably wondering how the hell I can't afford to pay my way through art school, but the truth is that my family has always paid off our mortage, etc. on time, never taken out loans. Also we haven't had income for several years, my brother is squandering what's left in business ventures, and we have to support our extended family. I'm not sure I can support four other people and pay off school loans with 20k a year :p

My mother has actually encouraged me to go into the arts, even suggested going to the UTAustin film school which is very good. I'd be horrible at films though. ;) I would like to be an acquisitions or marketing editor for children's books if not an artist...no clue how to become THAT...but basically I am planning to learn my way through 3d in my four college years, then see if I am still interested. The thing about art colleges that bother me is that they don't have any other training besides art. I mean even if you major in computer science you have to take humanities and government, etc at normal degree colleges. I know art is one of those "live it breathe it" careers but I wish it was more well rounded in terms of education.

I did try out ZBrush, I did use the password that they gave me, but it didn't work at first. It worked later....dunno. I think the layout is very confusing and non intuitive, so many commands and pictures and the big yellow font...haha. I like the tutorials though, they are much better than the max user guide, they actually show you which buttons to push. I also tried DeepUV and DeepPaint3d. Don't really understand how to use UV but deeppaint seems really nice. They seem way overpriced though.

If you have ANY advice on anything really, but mostly scholarships and contests then feel free to write me or IM me at angelgoo17. What kind of artwork was your portfolio? I assume it should be mostly observation realistic work. Also, I know that Imation used to host some sort of youth computer arts contest? Do you know if they still do? Anyhow I'm also hoping to finish some artwork in time for Portfolio Day...it was a very humbling experience last year.

BTW Austin is a nice place...I live in the Dallas area but I've been down there a lot. It's certainly much cheaper than many places in Cali...

[Tantramancer]

I know what you mean about the expectations of money. My dad worked as an executive for Xerox until recently making a good 6-figure salary. I wasn't sure how I would ever make that kind of money. As it is Xerox seriously went downhill over the last few years and he recently got layed off only a few years from retirement. He had only recently started a 401K since for many years he kept taking stock options until the company started doing poorly. The stock he has is almost worthless and has very little of any other kind of retirement fund setup. A few years ago he bought a huge house and 40 acres of land in a nice area of upstate NY. Now he's not sure he'll be able to afford to keep it. He's having alot of trouble finding similar work at his age. It really sucks.

I was on an accelerated program in high school that let me graduate early in my freshman year. I got permission to audit a few art classes at my high school for no grade over the next couple years so I could stay with my friends at least part of the time. It was also part of my plan to be eligible to participate in the Scholastic portfolio competition when I finally came of age. During those two years I got to attend school at a couple of local colleges. It was weird kind of straddling two worlds like that, taking an art class or two at the high school in the morning and then leaving to attend afternoon or evening classes in college. I started taking some of the normal studies courses in college but also got into some college level art courses. That really helped alot with my Scholastic portfolio competition entry.

I went on to the Art Institute of Pittsburgh on a full scholarship around the time my other friends, who I was originally supposed to have graduated with, went on to colleges of their own. I had already been doing it for a couple of years at that point which I think helped when I moved away from home for the first time to go to school in Pittsburgh. AIP was an OK school. Some of the classes I thought were a total waste of time but some were exceptional. It pretty much depended on the teacher. It was a good experience.

I had to take an extended leave of absence before starting my final quarter. We had a family emergency where my mother got very sick and we thought she was going to die. I went home planning to return when I could. I ended up staying home for a little over 3 years attending some other colleges and helping out with my mom. Her health started getting better so I returned to Pittsburgh and finished the last bit of school I had left there. Then my career started from there as I explained earlier.

My father wanted me to go into something that would lead to some kind of high paying executive position like he had and wasn't too keen on my pursuing the art path. My mom was very supportive the whole time. My dad was too once I won those scholarship offers. He just made sure that I did spend some time at other schools getting a broader foundation in other subjects. I'm glad he did. I do think it was a great idea looking back on it. While I have no direct need for knowledge of anthropology, history, psychology, journalism and other subjects; I often find unexpected creative inspiration from things I learned in those kinds of classes. Indirectly those kinds of things have made me a better artist than I think I would be without them. Doing some part-time teaching in high schools and colleges has been a good learning experience for me as well. I tend to work more on intuition with little conscious idea of how I do things. In teaching you often have to explain the same thing in many different ways to get across to every student. That's hard to do but it makes you understand things you take for granted much more fully.

As far as what kind of portfolio I had for the competition: they had fewer categories then and nothing for computers which I didn't know anything about then anyway. I submitted my portfolio under the illustration/graphic design category. All through high school I wanted to become a professional illustrator of books and magazines so I designed all the pieces in my portfolio around that theme. The subjects were based on scenes and characters of classic literature like Don Quixote, Charles Dickens, Edgar Allen Poe and others. They represented a wide variety of media and design approaches. Each one included a short caption from the story being illustrated to explain what I was trying to depict. I liked the idea of the portfolio having a common theme since it was presented all together. Not sure if that made a difference or not with the judges but I think it may have. I took a realistic approach to illustrating each scene but since my subject matter was fiction it largely had to come out of my head with a big pile of references for each one to help capture enough realism and detail.

You might want to think of a theme of some sort for your portfolio. An idea might be to design it around an animated short film project. No need to actually do the film but since you are into the CG the theme would allow you to do separate portfolio entries of concept/production art as well as a bunch of textured models of the scene or scenes and all the main characters. Maybe even do a storyboard too to show how it's all supposed to go together. Just an idea. Other ideas may come to mind later. Maybe it'll spark some other ideas in your head.

The Scholastic Arts Competition is the only one I'm really familiar with since I entered that myself years ago and recently helped some kids at the school I was teaching at with getting their portfolios together. I've heard about the Imation thing from one of the other teachers but don't know much about it. I assume they are still doing it. Here's a link:

http://www.imation.com/en_US/main.jhtml?Id=10_07_03

I like portraying things realistically and was always a big fan of the art of illustrators like Howard Pyle, NC Wyeth, Maxfield Parrish, Norman Rockwell, Virgil Finlay and others. Many of my friends wanted to be comic book artists but I wanted to be more of a serious illustrator like the artists I mentioned. I think that influence has made my style a bit more painterly and old fashioned in a way. I think it influences my 3D texturing and 2D illustration in Painter and Photoshop but not sure if it shows up in my modeling. When my portfolio is up you can see for yourself if my stuff is any good or not. I'm trying hard to get alot of new stuff done quickly. Many of the things I've done freelance for clients over the last couple years are either still under non-disclosure agreements or the developer is working with a publisher that wants to retain control of display of images. I only have a handful of freelance images to show now and many of those are collaborative pieces with other artists. I've been working round the clock to finish up a bunch of personal projects that are in various states of completion as well as put a website design together for the portfolio. Once the site is up I'll still have a bunch of projects to finish up to flesh out the presentation with a decent amount of content. It's getting there, even if it is slower than I'd like.

I agree, DeepPaint and DeepUV are monstrously overpriced. For 3D painting ZBrush and Bodypaint are better priced and are strong painting tools in their own rights. Remember that the version of ZBrush you are using has had it's interface and tools vastly improved in version 2. It's enough to give you an idea of what can be possible with it. While you are using the demo keep in mind that version 2 is at least five times better. Yeah, I love ZBrush's scripted tutorials. The interface is a little weird at first (remember it is improved in v.2) but once you learn enough of it you'll realize the design is pretty intuitive for the way you need to work. The workflow is very different from programs like Max which makes it tough to start out in.

[hpslashluvr]

How long have you been working?

Anyhow my portfolio is probably going to end up being the same one for my AP class this year. I'm not sure what I will do. To be safe I am going to tell my teacher "people" is my topic...last year I chose childhood nightmares and he made me write nightmare across every one of my pieces in case the judge didn't get it. *rolls eyes* I think I really wanted to do an animation for a book I liked as a kid, but it is partially fantasy. Fantasy isn't allowed by the AP guidelines, neither is blood, or teddy bears, or crying, and so on. It's rather annoying. This yr they're allowing us to do cartooning but I wouldn't risk it. I think I'll probably go with social issues, which sounds cliche. Most ppl who do that do the pretty obvious stuff with very cliched drawings about women's rights and racism. I dunno, I'll think of something. I haven't checked if you got a website up now, I think you said you didn't, but I'd really like to see any of the artwork you're doing now or even did back when you were in high school.

[Tantramancer]

It's been about ten years now since I got out of college. I did about a year doing the sculpting job then a little over 7 working at a video game studio and now just under 2 years freelancing. With any luck I'll be back in another game studio fulltime somewhere by mid-summer.

Not much left of my high school stuff beyond some sketchbooks. Things have either gotten sold, destroyed or given away over the years - not much left from that time. The last 3 illustrations from my high school scholarship competition portfolio I gave away to some friends who helped me move all my junk out of my apartment before coming here to Vegas.

It looks like my portfolio website may be up sooner than I had originally counted on. I worked out an exchange with somebody for them to host my site for the first year on a premium level hosting plan in exchange for my doing some Flash interface design work for them. They've already set me up with the site. I got a corporate level site with unlimited storage capacity of files and 30GB of monthly data transfer rate. I wasn't expecting to be able to afford it yet for 2 or 3 more weeks at least so I've been dragging my feet a bit on it while working on some personal projects. I also originally figured I'd buy something a couple tiers lower than what I got since I don't think I really need something that major but since it was offered, I'll take it. Now that I have it I have to switch my priorities around so I can get the site up as soon as I can in the next 2 or 3 days. Then I can get back to work finishing up more of my portfolio stuff to get put up there. The site link by the way will be:

http://www.blacktortoise.com/

The link won't work for a few days yet until I actually get the site launched. Probably won't be a whole hell of alot to see on the initial launch but alot of other stuff will be going up soon after over the next few weeks as each thing gets done as well as improvements to the site itself that I know I won't have time for this week. You won't have to wait long to see stuff. I'll have some images ready then too to start putting up here in the critique threads over the next few weeks. I'm still pretty new to the whole forum experience and only just started actively using a couple in addition to CGTalk. I still have to take the plunge and start posting some images. I know my stuff is fairly good and nothing to be concerned with showing but it's still weird thinking of putting it on display in front of the whole world. Oh well, it'll be happening soon.

That sucks that the AP thing has those kinds of silly content restrictions. At least the Scholastic competition doesn't have anything like that which I'm aware of. You still have until December or possibly even January I think to submit entries for the Scholastic competition. I can't remember the exact deadline date. I know it was around there somewhere. That still might be enough time to do something more along the lines of what you want to do. At least you could attempt it and decide which portfolio is better to submit then.

[hpslashluvr]

new color mapping only, no bump etc

eyes still too wide?

[hpslashluvr]

i dunno why this is happening when i render? i was trying to make the skin oilier (altho not this much obviously, that was just to test it), but i got this?

[Tantramancer]

I tried posting a reply a couple of times but keep getting that irritating server busy message. I hope they finish up with the site upgrades and databasing soon.

Anyway, I took a few minutes Wednesday to match up the rendered image and the wireframe view to a handful of different photo references in Photoshop to check the proportions. There are some slight variances between different people and ethnicities so I tried using 4 or 5 widely differing face references to get a better idea of what might be going on. It looks like the inner points of the eyes are still spaced slightly too far to the outside. On your screenshot it would just be a few pixels. Also it seems like the eyes should be moved down slightly too. Again, just a few pixels if using the screenshot as a guide. It seems like the eyelids could be fleshed out a bit too, particularly the upper eyelids. Kind of stretch them a bit vertically to start then round out the upper lids a little. Eyes are probably the toughest thing to make look right either in 3D or illustration. Alot of subtleties with all the fine muscles and folds and such to deal with. It doesn't take much at all for eyes to not 'feel' right. Everything else seems to be just great. The nose is real nice and the ears are fantastic. The other broad features seemed to match up just fine with each photo I matched it to. There are some subtle curves in the lips that could be added in. I'm thinking in the middle areas of the lips. It's just a little extra detailing there. I think the main area to concentrate on though is definitely the eyes. That will really bring it all together. Really look at your references good.

Since I know my 2D skills are still more advanced than my 3D skills I sometimes fall back on a technique that helps me to visualize problems I'm having better: I'll take a rendered image into Photoshop of the model, then I make a copy of it on another layer and start painting over that - making quick changes, sometimes lassoing and moving things around that need moving - like the eyes in this case. It's faster to make and see changes in Photoshop like that than you can back on the model in Max. Plus, it's a different way of working that helps to kind of mentally step back from the piece. I'll copy photo references and scanned illustrations from anatomy books into other layers and scale them to match the main features of the rendered images. I can toggle layers on and off to check placement and proportions and move and paint stuff on the second rendered image until I get it where it finally 'feels' right or as close as I think I'm going to get it. I'll toggle that on and off against the original image to get a better idea of what I'll need to do when I go back to my 3D program. Usually it should just take about an hour or less in Photoshop to do this. The process of doing that really helps to visualize in your head what kind of subtle or broad changes need to be made back on the model.

This technique helped alot when I was first starting to learn modeling in Max. I haven't felt a need to use it while modeling in ZBrush. ZBrush gives much more immediate feedback which really helps in visualizing potential problems as you go along. I think I remember you saying you had Photoshop. Try playing around with it for about an hour. I think you've just been working on your model too closely for too long. You could benefit from a simple exercise like that to see it in a bit of a different perspective. It's looking great. You're just down to mostly some subtle modifications at this point.

[Tantramancer]

You've got a good start on the base skin. Are you using a procedural shader or a map done in Photoshop? Just curious. Unfortunately the lights are a little strong to see it well in the image.

Anyway, not sure what's happening to cause the black areas. Does the model appear normal in the viewports and only messed up when rendered or does the problem occur when you assign a new map to it? There are a few possibilites but I think I need more information on what you have setup first to narrow it down. From the one previous image without the specular, just the base skin - what steps did you take that got you to the point where it renders with the black areas? Also, are you using Max's default renderer or Brazil? I can think of a couple things with Brazil alone that could cause something like that.

[hpslashluvr]

I just ps'ed the base, but ps freezes my comp sometimes so I did it mostly in MSPaint. *makes face* It's basically a flat color with some black for the lash area and some freckles.

I was playing with the Brazil skin shader which doesn't seem to work well. I put the map under either spec, oil or wet, I forget which one. Also how do I get brazil materials to show up in the viewport? I have to render each time to see the materials. I know the normal materials can be seen from clicking that show material button in the editor. I tried using the default renderer and Brazil, both didn't work.

This is my first scene without the default lighting so I'm trying to get rid of those dark dark shadows around the nose and under the mouth. I don't know why they're so dark because I've tried different lightings and I believe the modeling is all right.

edit: I didn't really want to bump my thread, cuz there are way too many posts by me, but I've got some more questions. Last three posts in this thread: (copy and paste)
http://threedy.com/site/forum/showthread.php?postid=207075#post207075

If you got time, go to 3dtotal.com and under max tutorials (under free stuff tab) there is an eyelash tutorial at the bottom. I'm not familiar with working with anything other than dragging points around, how do I make the shape renderable? It's the third step.

[Tantramancer]

Did you do any more editing to your UV's since the first map? If so that might be one thing that may be wrong and causing the black areas in the render.

Brazil's skin shader can get some very nice realistic skin but it takes alot of playing around with the settings and submaps and shaders. It's a pretty complex shader with a hell of alot of controls. I still don't know it as well as I'd like but the last time I messed around with it I was starting to get some results that looked decent. I don't get to play around with it much. I rarely get any opportunities to do texturing for cinematic purposes that would require that kind of shader so I mainly have just played with it a little for my own projects. I mostly do texturing for game models which have much simpler requirements.

When I have a few minutes I'll try to write down what shader settings I've worked out so far for the Brazil Skin Shader that seem to be getting results in some of my experiments. It's hard to remember without it open in front of me. I'm trying to get that website of mine done as soon as I can. I just uploaded an under construction page. The initial launch of the site should be going up sometime this weekend if I don't run into any unforseen problems.

Besides, before messing around with UV mapping, texturing and render settings you should probably concentrate on finishing the modeling of the whole head. It'll be easier on you later when you are doing the final textures. I'm sure you've got to be mighty anxious though to play around with the other steps at this point. I've felt that on projects that drag on too long.

Thanks for the link to that tutorial. I like the way that looks. I usually just would have some extruded planar faces extending and curving out from the lids and then paint an opacity map, diffusion map, etc to apply to those planar lash objects. It works good enough and is easy to do for some game models that need to be viewed close up. I like this guys method of using splines instead. More realistic for cinematic quality stuff. I've got to try that technique out soon.

Under the Modifier tab for your splines and in the Rendering Rollout there check Renderable, Display Render Mesh and the Generate Mapping Coordinates boxes. Then adjust the thickness, sides and angle settings to whatever looks appropriate. Drop a map onto it and there you go. You should see it in the viewport properly if you checked Display Render Mesh.

[hpslashluvr]

1) how do we use multiple uvs for one object??? just say you did uvs for the arm and head and leg etc separately, then welded...how do you get the uvs to stay the same and weld together w/o screwing up? or like if you want to planar map the top of the head and also the rest of the head cylindrically, but both maps showing up in the same uv map editor viewport

2) i have been suggested to use symmetry to weld the two sides of a head together, and supposedly the uv will weld and mirror too, but it does not seem to work??? (look at picture below) the uv i cleaned up for one side and then used symmetry for...now it is welded but not clean anymore

see, the half of the uv i had worked on now is screwy again once symmetry was applied?

[hpslashluvr]

ok i found out how to do planar mapping and cylindrical mapping at the same time lol

butttttttttttttt

ok, i have my editable poly, uv map, symmetry (not welded), unwrap, meshsmooth

if there's something wrong with that order, it'd be nice to tell me now ;)

ok, when i go into edit for uv maps, it has two of the same uv (half of the head) superimposed...but that's not what i want! how do i fix this?

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