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RobertoOrtiz
06-11-2004, 12:41 PM
Quote:
"For the first time in humans, a team headed by researchers at Washington University in St. Louis has placed an electronic grid atop patients' brains to gather motor signals that enable patients to play a computer game using only the signals from their brains.

The use of a grid atop the brain to record brain surface signals is a brain-machine interface technique that uses electrocorticographic (ECoG) activity-data taken invasively right from the brain surface. It is an alternative to the status quo, used frequently studying humans, called electroencephalographic activity (EEG) - data taken non-invasively by electrodes outside the brain on the skull.

The breakthrough is a step toward building biomedical devices that can control artificial limbs, some day, for instance, enabling the disabled to move a prosthetic arm or leg by thinking about it. The study was published in the June 8, 2004 issue of the Journal of Neural Engineering and was partially funded by the National Institutes of Health (NIH).

Eric C. Leuthardt, M.D., a physician in the Department of Neurological Surgery, Barnes Jewish Hospital, and Daniel Moran, Ph.D., assistant professor of biomedical engineering, performed their research on four adult epilepsy patients who had the grids implanted so that neurologists can find the area in the brain serving as the focus for an epileptic seizure, with hopes of removing it to avoid future seizures. To do this, the patients and their doctors must wait for a seizure. With approval of the patients and the Washington University School of Medicine Institutional Review Board, Leuthardt and Moran connected the patients to a sophisticated computer running a special program known as BCI2000 (developed by their collaborators at the Wadsworth Center) which involves a video game that is linked to the ECoG grid. They then asked the patients to do various motor and speech tasks, moving their hands various ways, talking, and imagining. The team could see from the data which parts of the brain correlate to these movements. They then asked the patients to play a simple, one-dimensional computer game involving moving a cursor up or down towards one of two targets. They were asked to imagine various movements or imagine saying the word "move," but not to actually perform them with their hands or speak any words by mouth. When they saw the cursor in the video game, they then controlled it with their brains.

"We closed the loop," said Moran. "After a brief training session, the patients could play the game by using signals that come off the surface of the brain. They achieved between 74 and 100 percent accuracy, with one patient hitting 33 out of 33 targets correctly in a row."

The ECoG method is orders of magnitude faster to learn than EEG.

"It takes many months to train using EEG, whereas our approach was done basically in an hour or so," Moran said. "That's because we got the signals from the surface of the brain rather than having to go through the skull."

"To put this in perspective," Leuthardt said, " the previous EEG-based systems are equivalent to a 1908 Wright brothers airplane in regards to speed of learning to achieve control. Right now with our results we're flying around in an F-16 jet."

The two note that ECoG has higher spatial resolution, broader bandwidth and higher amplitude than the EEG approach, allowing the use of more electrodes and the gain of higher frequencies, which let the researchers go another step - they tried it out on a 2-D game and were able to predict where the patients would move by seeing which electrodes were active on the grid. However, this group of patients did not control movement in the 2-D game with their brains, as they had with the 1-D game.

The researchers next want to try patients out with 2-D games to see if they can control the movements with their brains. They also will implant the ECoG grids into non-human primates - monkeys - to see how long they can get reliable data from them, the goal being eventually to develop a brain-machine interface device that will last years, say, up to 10, making the choice to have one implanted into a motor-impaired patient's brain practical.

"We are pretty confident that we can get signals from these for many years," Moran said. "There will have to be a rigorous study on monkeys for an indeterminate number of years before we can consider permanent implants in human subjects, but we're really excited about this advance. Brain-computer interface research is one of the hottest things going in biomedical engineering today."

"

>>Link<< (http://news-info.wustl.edu/tips/page/normal/911.html)

-R

t-toe
06-11-2004, 03:09 PM
all I can say is, "wow." we're living in the future, folks.

slaughters
06-11-2004, 03:39 PM
Wan't there a bowling game which all ready did this for one of the game machine platforms?

HamsaPaksham
06-11-2004, 03:55 PM
Amazing, our thoughts are material and can be measured. I´m waiting anxiously for the day science will start to recognize the existence of spiritual life too.

Noxerus
06-11-2004, 04:09 PM
Our thoughts do not originate materially, but they do propagate down through mental layers into physical electric currents.

Personally, I believe that the day when science begins to accept certain "spiritual" axioms is not so far away, since we are not that far from the point when further progress is impossible without a dramatic paradigm shift.

FortUno
06-12-2004, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by HamsaPaksham
I´m waiting anxiously for the day science will start to recognize the existence of spiritual life too.

That would be very interesting, but I think that if there is a spiritual life (not saying there isn't), we first need some way to detect it... Kinda like saying "I think there's something out there that I can't detect or measure with anything I have right now... So how do I find it?"

If someone comes up with some way to detect/measure spiritual things, that could be VERY interesting.


I've also read some things about experiments that have been done where sensors have been piggybacked onto nerves or muscles that send the pulses to do something like move a finger, and those signals have been recorded by a computer. They were next going to piggyback things on to try and send the same recorded signal from the computer to the muscle to simulate the brain sending the signal.

parallax
06-13-2004, 01:30 PM
Something similar has been around for at least 6 years.

Spritemare
06-14-2004, 03:05 PM
I can't wait until I can hook my brain up to a remote control for a gigantic destructive robot :cool:

HamsaPaksham
06-14-2004, 03:32 PM
I have had several spiritual experiences. But all through an human medium. It´s really difficult to tell this to people who make a decision of not believing just for not believing and to say they are "rational", and most of the times think they know everything.

But for those who are more open minded ( and as artists we all shall be)...

I´ve read about instrumental transcommunication, wich is very interesting. They record the voice of spirits. They use computers to amplify the low frequencies of waves. I´ve watched it also in tv but I cannot remember if it was Discovery Channel or not.

http://www.paranormalvoices.com/itc/english.htm

Dearmad
06-14-2004, 05:35 PM
Wow that sure is scientifical...

Here let me record some of those.... :rolleyes:

And I can see the devil in these pictures!!!!! AAAAAAAAGH!

http://www.paranormalvoices.com/itc/about.htm

HamsaPaksham
06-14-2004, 10:58 PM
Ahhh, that was the most funny joke I´ve ever read.

What a sense of humor. I could hire you to be my personal clown.

Dearmad
06-14-2004, 11:56 PM
Who's joking?

foxco
06-15-2004, 12:24 AM
thats realy amazing. i would love to play a game by thought :D:D it would be the radest thing ever


/fox

WazaR
06-15-2004, 03:17 PM
Another thread in my area!

It is very intersting actually. The idea has been around for a long time, but untill somewhat recently the only method was using EEG's. And yes EEGS are old and very rough. Normally EEG machines are used to measure electriacal differances for the surface of the head, this is used to record data espeacially about epilespy. The problem with EEG recordings is that you get ALOT of noise from the skull and skin and this noise is called impedance. Also the hair has a habbit off getting in the way. In fact, the only way EEGs will work at all is if you throughly clean and prepare a patch of skin on the head with speacil chemicals. Also because the PT moves the EEG's get displaced and it is HARD to keep them fixed to the head. The product of this little electrodes are a large number of "waveforms" corresponding to differant areas of the head. For a typical EEG setup you would need to use up to 20 electrodes on the head.(sometimes near the eyes) This allows a doctor to see all the activity of the brain in a gobal picture. Because of imppedance, grounding the electrodes is important. Otherwise all you'll get is wiggly lines that mean nothing. ECoG aviod this whole process. Addiontally due to the distance from the brain EEGS dont collect as much detail as an ECoG could.

I have not used ECoG, but I can imagine that its "waveform" tracings must be glorious to watch. ZERO impendance and almost no artifacts! And orders of magnitude more detail!! WOW. To bad they have to open your head to put them in. Really once the problem of PLACING the electrodes are solved, then its just a matter of monitoring the waveforms. What the reaseraches look for are differnt "electrical" waveform frequencis which denote differnt levels of brain activty. This range from the VERY high frq. Beta Waves (or even higher frq. due to higher elecotred precision) to the lowest Delta Waves ( which only accure druing sleep or in alter states) Computers are SOMEWHAT good at telling this waveforms apart, so they let the computer match "x" wave form to "x" brain activity to achive "x" result. Then they get the PT to repeat the proces and they finetune the waveform settings until the got it down pack where the PT produces "x" waves at "x" area then the computer makes "x" activity. This process is SOOOO much faster then with EEG's beacuse ECoG's are FAR more accurate and precise and so there needs to be far less guesswork on part of the computer.

THis is very intersting and has alot of applications, not just for video games, but for ARTICIFAL body parts. You could even make articifial organs. And yes VERY effective control for a large robot ala Gundam. Pretty much this is a lot like Ghost in a Shell kind of stuff. Very intersting. I hope I'll be able to be in on some of this action sometime in the future.

Belive me I'd be the frist to replace my dieing body for a mech one!

---as for the soul stuff,.... ahhh your brain controls your body. I dont really know what souls do in a pratical sense. EEGs and ECoGs measure brian electrical discharges .... period.

WazaR
06-15-2004, 03:39 PM
just a side note on the spritual talk.

ah guys,.... K.I.S.S.

EGG's and ECoGs are designed to measure electrical discharges form a slimmy electro chemical grey surface.

You dont use a "soul" to make your arm move. It is an electrical signal. Period. No amount of spiritual willing will make your arm move if it donst get an electrical signal. As far as the physical aspects of human life are concerned a soul quite frankly is NOT needed. I dont know, and have no place to say if a spirt exist or not, but ultimatly I really dont care either way. Physical process are physical in nature, this has been the case when something knew has been discovered in spite of spiritual thought of the day,..... EVERY time. Just beacuse we dont completely understand the way the brain as a machine works, theres no need to jump the gun and suppose that it HAS to be some magical faires pulling the strings.

I mean gossss..... just cause I dont know how MAYA works dosnt make me assume it works using magical enchantations. ( or at least I hope not, for if so im screwed.)

Q_B
06-15-2004, 05:33 PM
;)posted by WazaR
Belive me I'd be the frist to replace my dieing body for a mech one!

Yeah me too ... but just really when i had no more use of its more ... how to say ... mundane functions ... u know ...

Ok ok i'll stop!

As for the subject, it's really damn interesting ... apart from the coolness regarding games and simulations and xciting stuff like that, i really can see it making a huge difference for the disabled persons.

But i don't see that it can be made into a fullproof lasting technology in the next 50 years or so. Too bad for us :)

Lol maibe if i last till 80 i can rest my brain in a metal case and have a body armour ;)

posted by WazaR
I mean gossss..... just cause I dont know how MAYA works dosnt make me assume it works using magical enchantations. ( or at least I hope not, for if so im screwed.)

Actually its not enchantations... its this tiny entities named "Smurfs" that do all the wire pullin inside the comp :D

PyRoT
06-16-2004, 01:06 PM
This sure is interesting stuff. I cant see it being useful in games though. But I sure would like to escape the clutches of death with similiar technology. I dont know if we will get taht far in our lifetimes.

WaZaR: I also do brain stuff at my uni course. Just wanted to point out that interference is just taht, electrical or other body movememnt interfrence. Impedance I mainly to do with strength of the signals. AFAIK.

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