PDA

View Full Version : Realism: bolts


Arseny
06-09-2004, 12:39 PM
http://arseny.gutov.ru/effects/bolts.jpg

UPDATE:

http://www.arseny.gutov.ru/effects/boltsx.jpg

update:

http://arseny.gutov.ru/effects/boltst.jpg

mihkeltt
06-09-2004, 01:37 PM
you sure this is 3D? if so, this is one of the most realistic 3D pics i've seen:)

plaguelord
06-09-2004, 01:52 PM
omg, awesome work!
especially on the dof!

software?? wires?? please show more details!

(a big render can be good too):thumbsup:

lac
06-09-2004, 02:33 PM
very impressive work
good job :beer:

Drifter2k3
06-09-2004, 02:40 PM
how did you do thise threads..? do you happent to know any tutorials..? and btw veery nice work!

funkyboss
06-09-2004, 02:47 PM
Yes its great but id like to see wire...;):buttrock:

Sceme
06-09-2004, 03:07 PM
lol. i'm not going to believe this is 3d without seeing wires ;) and take this as a compliment if this is really a render :D

3d123
06-09-2004, 04:16 PM
its so realistic and i also wont believe it until i see a wire.

FluKe73
06-09-2004, 05:09 PM
We need a wire, if this is 3D i am very amazed! :-) If so keep up the good work.

XLNT-3d
06-09-2004, 05:14 PM
His 3d portfolio backs up his skill, so I do not doubt it. However, did you use a helix for the threads? They look some what rounded. They don't have a sharp edge to the threads. Could just be the render.

Definitely post the wires and software/renderer

EdHarriss
06-09-2004, 05:46 PM
- Very nice work!
- Somehow the grain in the reflections seems a bit much, but I like it.
- The edge of the image (bottom) seems a little too blurry.
- Overall it is amazing.

boboroshi
06-09-2004, 05:57 PM
Good shader work. Wires? Info on the package?

wethepe0ple
06-09-2004, 06:07 PM
next time i'll post a photo of somethin too :)

absolutly great this render... looks absolutly realistic! i'm overwhelmed

ToddD
06-09-2004, 06:14 PM
I thought this was a photo too, but I do see hints of the Kitchen HDR in the reflections, is that what you used? Nice job

sarfarazsoomro
06-09-2004, 06:14 PM
nice.. :bounce: :bounce: unbelievable

ambas
06-09-2004, 06:34 PM
whoa thats looks prettry real

miloszwl
06-09-2004, 06:40 PM
show me wire mode and i will believe :bounce:

Madison
06-09-2004, 06:41 PM
mmmm, wireframe please.
It's really real but I won't believe it until I see your wire.

:curious:

arai
06-09-2004, 06:43 PM
it looks 3d to me. looks nice, but its still 3d.

stop whining for a wireframe. just enjoy the work

disdathit
06-09-2004, 06:48 PM
show the damn wireframe.

good quality 3d but bad quality render a hell of a lot of noise.
duno where its comin from but its got to go.

Could be compresed image aswel. fix up

Damm
06-09-2004, 06:53 PM
woah :D.. i love everything about it =)..

oh and disdathit, the noise is there to give a more real feeling to the pic

chrisWhite
06-09-2004, 06:58 PM
Wow :buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock:

t0x1k
06-09-2004, 07:02 PM
This is obviously 3D, the bolts are too perfect, and all of them are the same, nothing to make them unique.

I think the noise really adds something to the render. Very nice.

Nicool
06-09-2004, 07:10 PM
Great wokr :thumbsup: What is interesting is the color aberations (that is not a grey scale color).

Scott Harris
06-09-2004, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by N2ChristTheKing
Wow :buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock:

Jesus Christ! (edit: capitalized to represent to the fullest)

ah....I had to do that... all siked to se SAVED this weekend...

It's great but I need to see a wire.
Get rid of some of the noise if you can

Daffydd
06-09-2004, 07:13 PM
Incredible render! Nice work :)

Daf

Kvaalen
06-09-2004, 07:15 PM
Really cool image. I have my guesses over what program was used. :)

And Scott, I personally don't find that funny. But if you had to do that you could have at least used capital letters. :)

bluemagicuk
06-09-2004, 07:25 PM
It is not 3d imo

Edit
I ate my hat .

pgp_protector
06-09-2004, 07:38 PM
Very nice, no need for a wireframe for me though, they look great, but they all look exactly the same, normaly there would be scratches / dings on them.

Other then the lack of scratches & dings, A+ :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Zardoz
06-09-2004, 07:44 PM
I don't think this is 3D...:hmm:

jazzman121
06-09-2004, 07:48 PM
I gotta see wire to belive it... its too real... but yea execept for no scratches/dings yea but still its very realistic...

haysuess
06-09-2004, 08:05 PM
Clearly 3D. The DOF grain should definitely not be there but I know some plugins do that on their own :-/ The DOF itself is also off which makes the scale of the bolts seem too large. More DOF, less grain, and you have a winner. I think the threads might be a little too round instead of sharper too but nice work nonetheless.

safakoner
06-09-2004, 08:05 PM
super :applause:

Lost Soul
06-09-2004, 08:05 PM
Check his website :eek:

~ Lost Soul

Okan
06-09-2004, 08:11 PM
:hmm:

jeroenven
06-09-2004, 08:17 PM
awesome modeling, shaders, lightning ... i'm impressed.

two things bother me:

i think you overdid on the depth of field... the screws are all very close together so the focus should be about the same on all of them ...

in the dark area's the image seems grainy like a bad photograph => it migth be the jpeg compression though ...

excuse me for nitpicking on such a great picture, but after all critic and comment is the whole point of a forum. keep up the good work!

took another look=> yeah, its jpeg compression. any chance you provide us with a high quality picture???

danielkenobi
06-09-2004, 08:20 PM
everione is asking for a wire. Why you dont post it?:drool:
Great image

chrisWhite
06-09-2004, 08:26 PM
Maybe he's just busy ;)

behzad
06-09-2004, 08:42 PM
It is not that hard, but still i got to see a wire.

disdathit
06-09-2004, 08:46 PM
i knew it. compression.

i agree bout the DOF as well. it would be hard to get dof on that without a super phat camera.

post a wire

post a wire

post a wire

and some texture info. SAY SUTIN WILL YOU

mushroomgod
06-09-2004, 08:52 PM
It looks great....but I dont think its real, it looks rendered

Adam
06-09-2004, 09:05 PM
Jesus Chrsit (heheeh)

I really don't see why people think this is real. I agree that it is truely amazing but come on guys you of all people should be able to spot 3d. I think that it would fool movie go-ers but still to me it seems obvious. Have any of you looked at a screw close up. It has tons of imperfection like the casting between the head of the screw and the actual screw and little dents and scrapes.

Don't get me wrong this is really really great but I see no reason for wires.

paconavarro
06-09-2004, 09:19 PM
Wire Please!!! :surprised

behzad
06-09-2004, 09:20 PM
Adam

wires are not just to prove something, Sometimes it is good to see how the models were constructed. But in this case hey why not? :thumbsup:

Sceme
06-09-2004, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by Adam
Jesus Chrsit (heheeh)

I really don't see why people think this is real. I agree that it is truely amazing but come on guys you of all people should be able to spot 3d. I think that it would fool movie go-ers but still to me it seems obvious. Have any of you looked at a screw close up. It has tons of imperfection like the casting between the head of the screw and the actual screw and little dents and scrapes.

Don't get me wrong this is really really great but I see no reason for wires.

I'm holding almost the same kind of screw that they are on that image. It looks almost the same, i can't see any "faults" on the modeling. Only thing i see is missing, are scratches, but maybe they are new screwes ;)

mimo8
06-09-2004, 09:40 PM
great installations on your homepage

durbdk
06-09-2004, 09:47 PM
I'm going to assume any artist who posts here will have the honor to be honest, and if not, all that is hurt is their karma. That said...

Very impressive picture, photo-real to say the least. Though the modelling isn't all that difficult (especially if using inventor/solidworks), your shader and lighting really blew me away. That's one of the most realistic metal shaders I've ever seen. The lighting is where you really made the picture though, it really pushed your image from good 3D to photo-real. Congrats.

Please post a reply, it's always helpful for us to hear about the process and techniques of other artists.
If language is the problem, post in russian, I'm sure many here understand enough to get what you say. Keep up the good work!:thumbsup:

Teckniel
06-09-2004, 09:48 PM
some nice work over there get some rid of the grain effect

and post some wires please :)

Adam
06-09-2004, 09:59 PM
I'm not saying that the wires are a bad thing to show I'm just saying that I don't need to see them to know this is 3d. Also Seeing the wires (atleast for me) would show little about the modeling process. The modeling is pretty simple guys. Don't get me wrong in no way do I think this doesn't not deserve the prasie it is getting I just am saying that I know regardless or not if he shows the wires that this is 3d. I think it is truely amazing and as stated above the shader and lighting are what really make this a great peice.

Oh and lastly I'm not implying that there are "faults" in the modeling i'm just saying that you can tell this is 3d purely becasue of the amount of amazingly fine detail you can see on a real screw when it is zoomed in to the size of this render.

I think the image is about as perfect as it can get without being reel.

garyturner
06-09-2004, 10:02 PM
Do you see any 3d on his website ? http://www.gutov.ru/

Not me...

Photography? A lot...:shrug:

Z1K0B4
06-09-2004, 10:11 PM
Oh, teh drama!

Madison
06-09-2004, 10:20 PM
mmmm guys.
Please check his website, I don't think he is a 3D Artist.

http://www.gutov.ru/ <--- which I found from his profile.

He seems like a photographer or painter.

Regards,
Madison.

;)

eugene_fraxby
06-09-2004, 10:22 PM
oh come on..... have you guys ever heard of hdri?

it's not bad but not believing it's a render?!?!?!? grow up!

the DOF is a bit extreme, but that's a matter of taste.... (personally DOF has become the new lens flare! get over it!)

nice enough render (DOF aside) but rustier, scratched screws would show more skillz than chrome hdr reflections and plugin DOF.....

my 2p

a

Bustasnipez
06-09-2004, 10:24 PM
check his website? why? I don't see anything worth looking at on that site. There isn't one 3d rendered image on his site.. its all photo's and some sketchy paintings. Besides the fact that he hasn't posted any wires.. let alone a response leads me to suspect that this image is a photo.. a photo perhaps fixed up in photoshop? dun dun duuuun! I mean most people would post the wire along with their pic.. obviously people want to see the wires comon gutov.. what were ya thinkin?

behzad
06-09-2004, 10:25 PM
I always take peoples advice with a grain of salt. I check their profile and website and see what kind of work they produce.

garyturner
06-09-2004, 10:29 PM
i made a mistake, his website (http://arseny.gutov.ru/)


somthing like hdri ?

mdurwin
06-09-2004, 10:37 PM
I think the arguement over whether this is a photo or rendering would be easily satisfied with a screengrab of the wire, a simple enough process.

Ch3
06-09-2004, 10:38 PM
heh the mystery of the day...
it seams like a render because of the perfect objects and the imperfect grain. On the other hand it could be a manipulated photo, if his intention was to cheat (which I dodnt believe).

He doesnt look like a 3D guy from his site... and even if he was, I dont think realistic renders would be his field, considering his artistic capabilities.
... but I just had a look to his previous threads and he actually looks like a realistic render maniac with some really good stuff.


i just think .... that we are all comfused!
please Arseny reply! :cry:

btw. really good stuff in your site Arseny ... (if it is yours)

Adam
06-09-2004, 10:42 PM
eugene_fraxby your crazy this is obviouly a potograph taken in the excat same location as a hdri image that you have previously seen. hehehe. HDRI doesn't exist! its a fake as well!!! hehe. god I'm funny.

examples of his 3d work here:
http://arseny.gutov.ru/

mimo8
06-09-2004, 10:48 PM
I also once made the joke to put a photo over at the cinema forum ... I told some hours later and I tell you noone laughed ... it actually got a bit uncomfy for me .... didnt try this kind of humor anymore and I dont recomend it too much ... specially on front page


anyhow - who sticked the screws on front page ... my caustics-fake-photo didnt bring it that far, why him and not me :D

my funny caustics attempt (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70318&highlight=vase)
sorry, I must have removed the photo from my server

Tut Ankh Amon
06-09-2004, 10:51 PM
i don't know about you, but i find funny as hell when people think CG is real and don't belive it's CG until they see a wire :p

aaanyway, great great rendering, and i agree with those who said the DOF is getting the back over-blurry

instead of a wire, post some info on the shader/texture ;)

JA-forreal
06-09-2004, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Arseny
http://arseny.gutov.ru/effects/bolts.jpg

I'm looking at this image without any thought to its true origins. As in artist I think that the purpose of art is to create dialog and conversation. Even the most basic objects can have enough detail to be interesting. Now I know that just about any of the 3d rendering engines that are available today can produce HDRI renders that look like this with ease. It's funny to see the need for some to have confirmation as to the true nature of such an image when it is posted on a 3d forum like CGtalk.

Arseny I see that in itself as good feedback for your posted image.

mimo8
06-09-2004, 11:02 PM
when I put my photoshop manipulated vase online and saw how people where giving compliments and asking how I did the caustics I found it funny as hell ... luckily it didnt make it to frontpage ... otherwise I wouldnt be mimo8 today, but susi7 or lumpi9 :D

kinglamoni22
06-09-2004, 11:03 PM
wire please.

Just want to see the wire. Im a 3d artist. I work in wire frame. I would also love to know more. i.e. lighting, texture, or textures. but a wire will sufice my interests.

I always like to learn new things.

kinglamoni22
06-09-2004, 11:11 PM
whent to link of poster http://www.gutov.ru/index.htm in hopes of seeing more of this great kind of 3D. Only found photos section. =( sad face.

Show more of this fine 3d work.

kinglamoni22
06-09-2004, 11:12 PM
LOL it even made it to the front page!

kinglamoni22
06-09-2004, 11:19 PM
I take pride in 3d rendering nuts and bolts. i have dedicated an entire gallary to my 3d renderings.

http://pro.corbis.com/search/searchFrame.asp

search: Bolts

butlafer
06-09-2004, 11:29 PM
Wow great! went all the way through all 5 pages and still no response with the wire frame lol

Obsti
06-09-2004, 11:35 PM
a simple rightclick on the image would have let you known that you can find his 3D-stuff at

http://arseny.gutov.ru/ :rolleyes:


excellent render arseny ;)

chrisWhite
06-09-2004, 11:46 PM
C'mon guys, let's at least give him the benefit of the doubt until he posts again. :shrug:

electropulse
06-09-2004, 11:57 PM
guys, it's hot out so have a cold one on me:

http://arseny.gutov.ru/beer/beerglass2.jpg

this is on his website, this guy is good.:thumbsup:

butlafer
06-10-2004, 12:25 AM
HOLY COW!!!! that beer looks real as hell

Benton
06-10-2004, 12:41 AM
amazing, just like a photograph!!

davijin
06-10-2004, 12:45 AM
well most of us Cg folk are really skeptical because of too many fakes coming around here dropping bogus art on the forums cuz they think its funny. if your art is real they you should have no problem posting a wireframe of your work. to authenticate it as a 3d render and not just some bs. hopefully its just a great render

ToddD
06-10-2004, 12:50 AM
Guys, I posted earlier, I think that is reflecting the "Kitchen" Hdr we see used so often, I believe it IS a render.:thumbsup:

peachstapler
06-10-2004, 12:55 AM
in before the wire post

???
06-10-2004, 01:03 AM
I just dont care if he show the wireframes of this, cause modeling a cylindrical rod incised with one or more helical or advancing spiral threads. is way too easy to model that crap. and duplicate.

All i wanna see is the RENDER TREE, shaders or whatever light, some passes. something that as to do with light.

Tell us how did you do that render. Otherwize, i dont beleave. and that pic should be removed from the front page of CGtalk.

Also, in other note, the corner of that image are little too blurry. Did you fix your camera ? or is it an effect ?

otacon
06-10-2004, 01:13 AM
Wires or no wires, i think the guy should at least come on here and thank us for giving him 6 pages of replies.:rolleyes:

modjo
06-10-2004, 01:14 AM
I'm new to this forum, is anonymous flaming allowed?:) I think it's very brave, '???'.

Anyway. I'm not impressed by the modelling but by the lighting. This guy is just good. Don't understand why people question his piece. I don't think the guy has to prove anything. If he posted a bogey 3d image, he would be the one carrying that around all day, won't you say? Don't let this bother you guys, just go on and try to achieve the same as he did. Disturbance, commotion!

kumodot
06-10-2004, 01:27 AM
Maaaan you blew my bolts away... :) hehehe

Excellent Job. A real "fake or photo" image !! :)

SketchPad
06-10-2004, 01:35 AM
Yep, it's probably real-cgi. It's
well done.

I attempted one myself in Blender just to see how hard it was,
it was pretty hard, and I dont think mine is as good as his by far:

http://www.hamsterking.com/blender/3d/screws2.jpg

Took me longer than anticipated, 3 hours incl. rendering.

captain_stinky
06-10-2004, 01:51 AM
yeah has anyone seen that fake or photo section at the maya website? The bolt pic in 3donline's avatar (im guessing he's the artist who made it) is ultra realitstic too, maybe even more realistic than this one.

At first glance i didnt even think twice whether this was real or not, it just smelt a little 3d. Don't get me wrong it is ultra realistic but the color or reflection seems a little off and photography on that scale with that depth of field isn't impossible but isnt easy either.

but has anyone checked out http://arseny.gutov.ru/ ? he is an awesome 3d artist and there are wires of his other pics there if u have doubts

but like someone else said, all these replies it would be good to hear some feedback from him (but by the looks of his web page he must be a very busy man)

but a very very very very nice image!!!!!!!
good work!

Icestar
06-10-2004, 02:08 AM
Maybe he simply doesn't speak enough english and coined a few phrases, anyone here that can speak russian and willing to ask him to post a wire?

DoLeeP
06-10-2004, 02:39 AM
keep up the good work:thumbsup:

Carbon
06-10-2004, 02:40 AM
I attempted one myself in Blender just to see how hard it was,

...what people go through just to prove a point....

Stillwell
06-10-2004, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by Carbon
...what people go through just to prove a point....

My thoughts exactly. lol.

Anyways, I have no doubt believing this is 3d. I'd be really interested in knowing how he achieved such an amazing realism though!

I love this render. I also love your stuff on your website.

pnoland
06-10-2004, 03:20 AM
Just wanted to say (even though the guy probably won't understand this...) nice render...the modeling doesn't impress me but the lighting and shading is perfect. Nice job with the Blender version also. Was that the normal blender renderer or yafray? ...if it wasn't yaf then I might have to look into trying blender again.

behzad
06-10-2004, 03:43 AM
can someone email me when this guy posts a wire frame.
They are all pictures too me, not CG.

tevih
06-10-2004, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by durbdk

Very impressive picture, photo-real to say the least. Though the modelling isn't all that difficult (especially if using inventor/solidworks), your shader and lighting really blew me away. That's one of the most realistic metal shaders I've ever seen.

If it was titanium or something. There's gotta be some scratches, maybe even a little rust. They use much softer metals... this is way too smooth and "hard" looking.

It ISSSSS beautiful!!! Just not perfect ! darn close tho!:thumbsup:

-edit-

WOAH! that beer impressed me!! Just browsed his site! I thought that WAS a photo.... lol

SketchPad
06-10-2004, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by pnoland
Nice job with the Blender version also. Was that the normal blender renderer or yafray? ...if it wasn't yaf then I might have to look into trying blender again.

Thanks. That was the internal renderer, Blender has come a long way
since yesteryear [:)]

It has some AA problems though...

PhillipCrond
06-10-2004, 05:29 AM
I don't see what's so amazing about this image. Just an instanced model, some HDRI, and an assload of DOF and film grain. It's not particularly unbelievable that someone could do this in CG.

kraal
06-10-2004, 05:31 AM
why are you guys posting your work on someone elses thread.....?

JA-forreal
06-10-2004, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by Obsti
a simple rightclick on the image would have let you known that you can find his 3D-stuff at

http://arseny.gutov.ru/ :rolleyes:


excellent render arseny ;)

That's the beauty of the rightclick method. It works wonders and opens new windows to the mind. Hehehe.

This is a good clean render arseny.

JA-forreal
06-10-2004, 05:48 AM
Originally posted by kraal
why are you guys posting your work on someone elses thread.....?

Yeah this is a thread about arseny's render.

DANKA
06-10-2004, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by Brent Turbo
I don't see what's so amazing about this image. Just an instanced model, some HDRI, and an assload of DOF and film grain. It's not particularly unbelievable that someone could do this in CG.

I agree...:wise:

Arseny
06-10-2004, 07:27 AM
http://arseny.gutov.ru/effects/boltswire.jpg

very simple modeling.. even don't know what to say about..
rendered in brazil, no postwork at all.

Fede
06-10-2004, 07:31 AM
Fantastic mate!!,

I hope many of you feel really dumb now, cause what went on in this thread was really disgracefull, shame on all of you.

Teckniel
06-10-2004, 07:38 AM
do you have any shaders information of lightt information cause its ****ing nice and realistic yeers m8 :beer:

FluKe73
06-10-2004, 07:42 AM
I was one of the first here to doubt you! :-) My apology.... It's really impressive :-)

The other 3D is also great on your page!

Arseny
06-10-2004, 07:45 AM
shader - brazil advanced with glossy reflection.
envirment - HDRI.
no light exsept skylight (the same HDRI)
Dof.

roborn
06-10-2004, 08:31 AM
now this is the part when everyone comes and say:

"yeah! i allways knew that it was 3d!" :beer:



good gob! :thumbsup:

mimo8
06-10-2004, 09:10 AM
great tactics - brought you 7 pages of hot cg-diskussion

point 4 u

disdathit
06-10-2004, 09:59 AM
what a *********. You finally decided to reply huh?? and not even a word for the pages of replies your getting.

poor image, like i said from the start. too low res, and too much grain. no modelling skills. no front page.

Arseny
06-10-2004, 10:03 AM
disdathit,
what do u want from me?
I answered all the questions and posted the wire.
And i answered as soon as i came to work, I was sleeping when all the coments was posted, couse we had deep night here in Russia.

I think i'll post a bigger resolution image soon.. and from my point of view th grain is ok on this pic.

mushroomgod
06-10-2004, 10:12 AM
[QUOTE]what a *********. You finally decided to reply huh?? and not even a word for the pages of replies your getting.

poor image, like i said from the start. too low res, and too much grain. no modelling skills. no front page.

QUOTE]

disdathit,
once the image got to the front page it get many replys very quickly, you may find this hard to belive but when you are awake the other half of the world are asleep.


grow up maybe?.....just a thought




:D

rebo
06-10-2004, 10:48 AM
nice render!

ower
06-10-2004, 10:59 AM
I think a lot of people had crow for dinner lastnight.

I like it Arseny, Great job.

Kel Solaar
06-10-2004, 10:59 AM
Excellent rendering :buttrock: You manage to create something wich is near to perfection. You have some impressive rendering skills Arseny.

Arseny
06-10-2004, 11:00 AM
http://arseny.gutov.ru/effects/boltsx.jpg

turx
06-10-2004, 11:24 AM
amazing render!
one of the most realistic cg images i've seen! :thumbsup:


agree with mushroomgod, somebody really need to grow up.
and i think this big render is a good reply to all kids.

Cycone
06-10-2004, 11:25 AM
This is awesome! Superb work! Could you maybe tell us a little more about your metallic shader? I love it!

Cheerio, Koen

Zardoz
06-10-2004, 11:55 AM
wel...:shrug: i have to say i am sorry because i didn't believe it was 3d. Ah well i guess you can take this as a compliment!

I think it is really impressive. Of course it is not the most impressive object...but the final result is really impressive.

Very good

Arseny
06-10-2004, 11:57 AM
Cycone



shader - brazil advanced with glossy reflection.
envirment - HDRI.
no light exsept skylight (the same HDRI)
Dof.

Tigerdog
06-10-2004, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by disdathit
what a *********. You finally decided to reply huh?? and not even a word for the pages of replies your getting.

poor image, like i said from the start. too low res, and too much grain. no modelling skills. no front page.

GROW UP!
I think its a great render. I cant belive you posted that comment :shrug:

Arseny - You have great skills, the beer that you created looks awsome aswell!!:thumbsup: Nice work.

AIPh Pretzel
06-10-2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by disdathit
what a *********. You finally decided to reply huh?? and not even a word for the pages of replies your getting.

poor image, like i said from the start. too low res, and too much grain. no modelling skills. no front page.

typical '04

eek
06-10-2004, 01:23 PM
what a *********. You finally decided to reply huh?? and not even a word for the pages of replies your getting.

poor image, like i said from the start. too low res, and too much grain. no modelling skills. no front page.


Sorry to bring this up but please respect the forums!. This is a place to discuss any digital work, be it photorealistic or not!

Arseny,
Great work, very realistic and very nice lighting!. Looks like you did it in max, so thankyou! Im gunna have a go at this now! Brazil seems a nice renderer. Ill try it out in FR see if i can replicate the same effect.

cheers

eek

deathblood
06-10-2004, 01:25 PM
Oh my god
I read 7pages to look the wire....
It is amazing work....
I really can not blieve my eyes....:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Arseny
06-10-2004, 02:14 PM
http://arseny.gutov.ru/effects/boltst.jpg

roborn
06-10-2004, 02:27 PM
that's right!!! :beer:

Teckniel
06-10-2004, 02:35 PM
what did you use for the beer glas on your webpage sorry to ask it in this tread

any information on it please also the materials :)

Arseny
06-10-2004, 02:40 PM
Teckniel.
Brazil for render..

Brazil materials (brazil glass/brazil advanced)
everything is simple
correct index of refraction and reflection...
Hdri for the envirement...
Bump, reflection, opacity map for the foam... and subsurface scattering...

don't forget the bubbles :)

caustics from the hdri skylight, no other light sources exept hdri.

dickma
06-10-2004, 02:56 PM
First I would like to make an apology here to the one who make this image. My opinion is quite offensive.. This pic is nothing special at all and it doesn't worth a frontpage space.

Is this pic wants to tell us that creativity comes to a limitation or an end, and need to use the 3D tools to recreate photorealism? And someone raise a silly question like is it photo or not. And someone is fooling around with it and say it is a good work. In my opinion yes it is a good rendering, in terms of technology used. But this pics doesn't lead us to think something deeper and meaningful. It is really just nuts and bolts, that we can do the same by just take a shot using a DC.

OMG, the frontpage gallery is dropping standard in quality!

Technicrat
06-10-2004, 03:13 PM
Is this pic wants to tell us that creativity comes to a limitation or an end

@Dick Ma: This is where you are missing the point I think. Yes, it really is just nuts and bolts. But it prompted 9 pages of discussion with extremely varied opinions... inspired others to go off and try and recreate the same effects, and amazed most of us at how it was done. THAT is why I love art, my friend.

Were the standards of the front page lowered by this image? Hardly... they were just raised.

My .02

dickma
06-10-2004, 03:22 PM
I am sorry again.... Technicrat...

You mean that nuts and bolts can inspire another people to try and recreate the same thing? Yes, it inspire other people to recreate more cliche things. I advise you that don't be fooled by this image, it is not art.

Think about what is the Idea behind the nuts and bolts. What is the differences of rendering this in computer and doing this by making photo shoots. The differences is just the technology.

rendering may be takes one or more hours but shoot a photo is just a sec or less.

Eilsoe
06-10-2004, 03:33 PM
that can be said for almost all renders.. sheesh...


IMO this render goes to show what can be done with so little work.

It inspires me to take a breather while scening, and not indulge myself in details.



Great models doesn't neccesarily mean great renders.

Dave Black
06-10-2004, 03:39 PM
This work deserves the front page. It is highly detailed, well lit, and overall a very impressive technical feat.

If it was not so, then many of you would not have mistook it as a photograph.

To Arseny, I want to extend my apologies for the way you and your work have been treated. You are a valuable member of our community, and we hope this experience will not restrict you from future postings.

To everyone here who has resorted to name-calling, mud-slinging, and flame posts, consider yourselves warned. This type of speech is not professional, nor in keeping with the spirit of CGTalk.

Please consider your words and actions more thoroughly before posting such comments in the future.

Thank you for your cooperation.

-Dave Black

dickma
06-10-2004, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Arseny
Teckniel.
Brazil for render..

Brazil materials (brazil glass/brazil advanced)
everything is simple
correct index of refraction and reflection...
Hdri for the envirement...
Bump, reflection, opacity map for the foam... and subsurface scattering...

don't forget the bubbles :)

caustics from the hdri skylight, no other light sources exept hdri.

Look at the quotes, the rendering quality is offered by the technologies.... what he lacks of is CREATIVITY. If he is still would like to do photorealism CG, inspire us with COMPOSITION. It is the only way to make us feel interesting.

Dave Black
06-10-2004, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Dick Ma
Look at the quotes, the rendering quality is offered by the technologies.... what he lacks of is CREATIVITY. If he is still would like to do photorealism CG, inspire us with COMPOSITION. It is the only way to make us feel interesting.

He was refering to a different render on his website.

-Dave

dickma
06-10-2004, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Dave Black
This work deserves the front page. It is highly detailed, well lit, and overall a very impressive technical feat.

If it was not so, then many of you would not have mistook it as a photograph.

To Arseny, I want to extend my apologies for the way you and your work have been treated. You are a valuable member of our community, and we hope this experience will not restrict you from future postings.

To everyone here who has resorted to name-calling, mud-slinging, and flame posts, consider yourselves warned. This type of speech is not professional, nor in keeping with the spirit of CGTalk.

Please consider your words and actions more thoroughly before posting such comments in the future.

Thank you for your cooperation.

-Dave Black

I don't know is the above post is related to my past critics. My response is simple: it is just critics.

I didn't mislead everyone... what I quote about the rendering specs is from the beer pics.... but I believe that the nuts and bolts render is also technology based.

I think I have used appropriate expressions on my post. What I am talking about is just critical comment of images he posted. And I think as an open forum, of course it accept appreciation, it also accept critics too. And I think my critics is constructive one.

dickma
06-10-2004, 03:58 PM
deleted by original author.

krispee
06-10-2004, 04:06 PM
hi all....don`t post very often so i hope you won`t mind me inserting my 2 pence coin.....
it does seem a shame that people actually put a barrier on what should be or what should not be art.....its diversity down through the years has prompted many opinions both good and bad, which is the better for the art world in general, making us all think more about what we do.....thinking and not reacting is the best thing an artist can do....

anyway, to the piece in question.....
i do like the render i must admit, its beautifully done.....
but...
i`m an engineer, have been for many years, and there`s not much i don`t know about threads.....
most threads are cut, with a sharp tool, and create radial lines running down the entire length of the cut....and the form is usually sharply defined, an upsidedown v with the crest topped off would suffice as an example of one cycle of a thread shape.......some massed produced threads are formed by compression like a mold and can look a little like the threads in the render, but usually have a form line running down the length of the thread and either side....and the threads in the picture have neither a line nor are sharply defined and are not sufficiently accurate enough to fool me....so technically it isn`t perfect.....
but since we`re artists here the overall effect is good, and as i said, looks beautiful.....and should be lauded as it has....

sorry to bore everyone with techie stuff.......you can wake up now lol

krispee

KevinK
06-10-2004, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Dick Ma
I advise you that don't be fooled by this image, it is not art.


This is art, there are no rules in art...

Just check out this piece of art by Andy Warhol
http://www.guiabizkaia.com/Guggy/exposic/warhol/medias/campbells2.jpg


Arseny:

Great image :buttrock: . But I liked the first one better. (The one without the logo on it.) :thumbsup:

dickma
06-10-2004, 04:32 PM
You didn't read my post in details. You didn't answer me about what is the difference between rendering and taking photo.

In your provided example, First, Andy Warhol draws the Campbell's can of soup with plain color, no light shading at all. Not a photo shooting.. please consider why he wasn't shoot the can in photo?

And he has "Compositions" in illustrating the Campbell's cans. like enlarging it, display it in rows and columns to create visual impacts. Or like the Marilyn one, using color as his visual points.

And the behind concept of illustrating a quantity number of cans is to express about "clones" "homogeneous" ''consumerism" it's a typical american symbol.

I am not a good student when having my art history class. But is there anything I can learnt from the nuts and bolts? except the rendering technology?

Technicrat
06-10-2004, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Dick Ma
... But is there anything I can learnt from the nuts and bolts? except the rendering technology?

I don't know what you can learn from it, Dick Ma. The best I can tell you is what I appreciate in it. Where you see no creativity here I actually see a great deal. It takes creativity to draw elegance out of something so simple as a pile of bolts. And that is what Arseny has done.

Whether that was done through a photo or a render is secondary. What is much more important is that when I see this image I don't think to myself, "A pile of bolts... so what... blah..."

Instead, I think, "Damn, that's a very cool looking pile of bolts. I like it."

Trying to figure out how the artist did it and what techniques were used is part of the fun too, but doesn't detract from the initial impressions of the image.

honkie
06-10-2004, 05:16 PM
dunno, but why should everything here be art? i think its his aim to create photorealism!
and i think it is easier to make a pic of an mclaren F1 than with a DC... here are the advantages, because you can show things you cant easily take photos of, or which doesnt exist.

Vertizor
06-10-2004, 05:20 PM
Tell me, what am I suppose to learn from drawing a bowl of fruit? Or any still-life project in art class. The bowl of fruit is a classic excersize they do in art classes, using any medium.

What if instead of drawing a bowl of fruit I draw a bowl of nuts and bolts? Is there a difference? No. Same concept, still-life, same excersize.

I'll tell you what I learned from this image of a nuts and bolts:

I learned that even "artists", the class of people thought to be "open minded", can be very closed/narrow minded and unwilling to accept different things, or things they're not use to, things that is not of their particular style.

dickma
06-10-2004, 05:21 PM
Well I cannot bother your appreciation taste, you know that. But I believe what is freedom of speech.

Review my posts. I would like to express that it is a good rendering, in technical terms. Art can be analysed and as a scale to define is it a good art or not. How compositions can improve art and design. And my expression of my personal appreciation taste. And my comment is that it is not an art and it's standard isn't worth a frontpage place.

You can provide me other POV about this image, but you cannot bother me to express myself either.

dickma
06-10-2004, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by Vertizor
Tell me, what am I suppose to learn from drawing a bowl of fruit? Or any still-life project in art class. The bowl of fruit is a classic excersize they do in art classes, using any medium.

What if instead of drawing a bowl of fruit I draw a bowl of nuts and bolts? Is there a difference? No. Same concept, still-life, same excersize.

I'll tell you what I learned from this image of a nuts and bolts:

I learned that even "artists", the class of people thought to be "open minded", can be very closed/narrow minded and unwilling to accept different things, or things they're not use to, things that is not of their particular style.

Before drawing a bowl of fruit, the first thing is to learn COMPOSITION, how to place the fruits in aestheic sense. How to create stability. And I believe if ten students draws the same bowl of fruit, ten different drawings is created. Because as you stated before, they use different mediums and styles.

Do my answer satisfied you?

dickma
06-10-2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by honkie
dunno, but why should everything here be art? i think its his aim to create photorealism!
and i think it is easier to make a pic of an mclaren F1 than with a DC... here are the advantages, because you can show things you cant easily take photos of, or which doesnt exist.

I think it is a good comment I think. or my spirit of my comments. Is it really hard to shoot the nuts and bolts sharp with a DC? The technologies provided to us is that they to create something that looks real, but it doesn't exist in real world, or hard to achieve it in real world, or hard to do it with a DC.

The original author of nuts and blots is success to create photorealism.... but can he push himself further? I am looking forward to his next creation.

kumodot
06-10-2004, 05:42 PM
I have a little different opinion about some posts here. I think, that unfortunatelly, MANY people on CGTalk Forum and other foruns are loosing their mind, thinking that we need to be like "rockstars" hunting fame and glory.

Many people here in CGTalk is just looking for to do really impressive and technical works, with unbeliaveble complex modeling just to impress some mattes... I don't really think that's the real target of the 3DArtists (my opinion).

So i think that some people on the forum is loosing this simple principle, and if some image is just not extremelly impressive in render, modeling, or everything toghether, they don't deserve any respect. This is a dumb way to look at images.

If an image is nice and beautiful it's nice and beautiful. Don't worry about the modeling complexity.
I think the technical skills and tecnical aspects is very important to study, cause we need then to work, but, the image is the result and the most important.

I totally agreed that tne Arseny's image don't have nothing so much impressive in modeling or in lightning, cause Brazil renders and shaders helps a lot with a excellent feedback on light and reflections, but THIS IS NOT IMPORTANT. An image is an image. Like an illustration. I prefer images with more creativity, but this image, i guess that's kind f work to study, like a self improvement study of the artist.
Not an image to be a masterpiece, or to show something more than a good lighting and shading study.

Even If it's a Photo, it STILLS a very nice photo. It's easy to do, it's hard, it's impressive or not ? Whats matter ?
The image is nice and beautiful (for me).

I am not a big fan of the extremelly technical image with the MAIN target on the hunting for the first page or just to impress people.
Do your job and let your talent to impress people.

I liked your image Arseny. I think its cool. Not because the modeling, the reflections, or the hell shader or render you've used. It's Just nice.

Btw : My english is terrible. Sorry. :)

dickma
06-10-2004, 05:53 PM
I just want to say I just want to express my thought to increase the diversity of appreciation ways .... I hope everybody don't treat me as a freak or an enemy that against the whole community.

I am glad that it is a good constructive discussion end up.

Arseny
06-10-2004, 06:00 PM
Dick Ma,
and what's about the last image, with the logo on the bolt?
i made it just to show u what's for 3d photorealistic renders could be used, couse u'll never be able to take such a photo...

dickma
06-10-2004, 06:09 PM
My Opinion of the last image, that showing the logo, is that the logo isn't have a weathering effect. It is a bit odd for the whole scene and it really shows the disadvantage of using the 3D photorealistic renders without manupulating the textures... the rendering result is too perfect that it doesn't look possible in reality and the photo-realism effect is decreased.

Sorry, I have to take a nap and I would like to end up here.

durbdk
06-10-2004, 10:02 PM
Dick-Ma, and all else...

Art is the expression of a persons mind, what they see, dream, feel.... We all know that there are many forms of art, those of us serious about 3D are drawn to the graphic arts, and the technicality and challenge of 3D is what keeps us enthralled. You said something about the difference between just taking a photo and rendering this wonderful image. The difference is that I can explain in under an hour all a person needs to know to take decent photos. By contrast, a scene even as simple as this is a challenge, drawing on many different disciplines. Sculpting, painting, cinematography and photography as well as physical sciences.
The end result is important, by the driving force is the quest for perfecting ones technical skill.
To see the difference between photo and 3D works, I challenge you to step up and submit your works. It's OK to contest and debate, but you must have a base for your argument.

Prove your point.

Congrats Arseny, this is the longest thread I've
seen. :thumbsup:

mushroomgod
06-10-2004, 10:24 PM
the problem with "art" and many other things as well is that......

You can please some of the people some of the time, you cannot please all of the people all of the time:hmm:

Slim
06-10-2004, 11:05 PM
not trying to be rude or anything, just a truthful review. from your site, i would say you're an average modeler, but a top notch texture/skinner and lighting engineer.

plaguelord
06-10-2004, 11:36 PM
AMAZING WORK

you should send it to spluterfish! its a must in his gallery!

can told me something about your pc configuration and render times?

dickma
06-11-2004, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by durbdk
Dick-Ma, and all else...

Art is the expression of a persons mind, what they see, dream, feel.... We all know that there are many forms of art, those of us serious about 3D are drawn to the graphic arts, and the technicality and challenge of 3D is what keeps us enthralled. You said something about the difference between just taking a photo and rendering this wonderful image. The difference is that I can explain in under an hour all a person needs to know to take decent photos. By contrast, a scene even as simple as this is a challenge, drawing on many different disciplines. Sculpting, painting, cinematography and photography as well as physical sciences.
The end result is important, by the driving force is the quest for perfecting ones technical skill.
To see the difference between photo and 3D works, I challenge you to step up and submit your works. It's OK to contest and debate, but you must have a base for your argument.

Prove your point.

Congrats Arseny, this is the longest thread I've
seen. :thumbsup:

Is it making critique is just limited to some sort of people that has great work or portfolio backup him or herself, or being famous so that he or she can be the "standard" to prove it is a good work or not. Can a passing-by or even an outsider make a critical comment? I am afraid that he should be torture for life if he cannot face those critical comment.

Here I am not to face off him and prove everyone that my work is better than him. I think it is childish behaviour for me if I take your suggestion by posting a better image to challenge him.

I believe my critics is solid enough with real facts and analysis support. Look at the post that I wrote about Andy Warhol. I really hope that someone can teach me the POV of appreciating the Nuts and Bolts in other aspects instead of just technology backup.

kumodot
06-11-2004, 12:48 AM
Hi There Dick Ma. I agree with you in some parts.

I agree with you about the "why to try to replicate the reality". I personaly, don't like to run after the photorealism, but it's a way to follow.

I prefer much more to create my own "realist", or style-look to just replicate something that already exist. I think that this is a personal choice of each 3DArtist.

The fact is, realism is not the target of CG. Realist is just one of the many ways to show an idea. Some guys take photos, some guys draw, some guys do 3D Stills.

Your right, in my opinion when you said that's many time is easier to just take a photo. If you will not distort the reality, but just replicate it, its a more technical challenge than artistic challenge. But i will not try to judge if something is art or not, and i don't thing Arseny is trying to prove that his pic is Art or not. I think he just posted it here, and is wainting for C&Cs.

I would like to remember, that as working as a professional 3D ARtist, everybody will need, from time to time, to made something that looks realistic enough to looks real to an major audience. Like Cg Effects for Films.

So. We need to study and to give some value to this kind of study. As i said, i need to know how to do it, but it's not my "style" or something that i am looking for to put on my reel. But it's my personal choice. Some other artists live to reach the reaslism on CG. Because they like tech challenges. I cannot Judge them. But i can say that realistic is not the "perfect state of art" for CG, for me.

Lord3d2
06-11-2004, 02:28 AM
its 3dCG alright

http://arseny.gutov.ru/effects/boltswire.jpg

krazed
06-11-2004, 03:08 AM
Personally I really like the image and feel all this crap about it not being art is pathetic. Who even cares whether it is art or not? The forum is "Gallery/Finished Work:3d". I dont see any mention of art there.....

Anyway would it be possible to tell me how you modelled the thread please?

BESTrin
06-11-2004, 04:23 AM
thanks for the wire, but the be diferent one proves it anyway you cant by a screw with your logo imprinted on it. Great work. The be diferent is the best the others are pointless besides for realism. great work great realism.

JA-forreal
06-11-2004, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by Arseny
http://arseny.gutov.ru/effects/boltst.jpg

You really did take a different approach to posting a 3d render on CGtalk Arseny. Look at the commotion that your image of nuts and bots caused. I like your style.

CGZAMOR
06-11-2004, 07:55 AM
waow

Arseny
06-11-2004, 08:36 AM
plaguelord,
My comp is P4, 2,65 ghz, 1 gb ram, radeon 9200 video card.

rendering time approx. 2 hrs per 800x600 image

sebcesoir
06-11-2004, 11:16 AM
Hmm.. Great work...
But, maybe I will be kicked out for that...

To me, metalic bolt are not the hardest things to medilse or render... Almorst with such dof. Thats true this render is amazing, but actually with actually's softs we have, its not impossible...
If prefere the cars on his website...
But I agree that's its a great work.

Brett H.
06-12-2004, 12:57 AM
Just a nitpick, but these really aren't "bolts" at all, bolts accept a nut, or thread into a tapped hole, by definition. These would be "screws".

As was mentioned, the modeling of the threads is just plain incorrect. Threads like these are cut by a machine that forms a v-groove, the depth of which is accurately defined. There are surprisingly close tolerances in the manufacture of fasteners such as these. There are some screws whose threads are manufactured in a form that loosely resembles these, but their use is limited (plastic assemblies and such), and they are rarely seen outside of children's toys.

Tut Ankh Amon
06-12-2004, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by 3donline
I have a little different opinion about some posts here. I think, that unfortunatelly, MANY people on CGTalk Forum and other foruns are loosing their mind, thinking that we need to be like "rockstars" hunting fame and glory.

Many people here in CGTalk is just looking for to do really impressive and technical works, with unbeliaveble complex modeling just to impress some mattes... I don't really think that's the real target of the 3DArtists (my opinion).

So i think that some people on the forum is loosing this simple principle, and if some image is just not extremelly impressive in render, modeling, or everything toghether, they don't deserve any respect. This is a dumb way to look at images.

If an image is nice and beautiful it's nice and beautiful. Don't worry about the modeling complexity.
I think the technical skills and tecnical aspects is very important to study, cause we need then to work, but, the image is the result and the most important.

I totally agreed that tne Arseny's image don't have nothing so much impressive in modeling or in lightning, cause Brazil renders and shaders helps a lot with a excellent feedback on light and reflections, but THIS IS NOT IMPORTANT. An image is an image. Like an illustration. I prefer images with more creativity, but this image, i guess that's kind f work to study, like a self improvement study of the artist.
Not an image to be a masterpiece, or to show something more than a good lighting and shading study.

Even If it's a Photo, it STILLS a very nice photo. It's easy to do, it's hard, it's impressive or not ? Whats matter ?
The image is nice and beautiful (for me).

I am not a big fan of the extremelly technical image with the MAIN target on the hunting for the first page or just to impress people.
Do your job and let your talent to impress people.

I liked your image Arseny. I think its cool. Not because the modeling, the reflections, or the hell shader or render you've used. It's Just nice.

Btw : My english is terrible. Sorry. :)

Marcelo, eu te amo AEUheauheah :D

Really, i totally agree with Marcelo when he says that many of the people not only here but on other cg forums are getting totally megalomaniacal about cg work...

Arseny, the new render is even better than the last one man, congrats ;)

and as a final comment:
MANY of the replies to this thread could be represented by THIS IMAGE:

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/image/2003/20031011.jpg

:p

Tony Richardson
06-13-2004, 02:00 AM
I think it is a wonderful image! To me thats all that matters. I could care less if it's technically accurate down to the micrometer. Who in the hell cares. You presented it as an image not as a technical paper on how a bolt is engineered. Some people on this forum need to get their head out of their ass and try and enjoy life and some of its simple pleasures.

I also think the modeling is first rate. That is a very clean mesh in my opinion. Was it modeled in MAX?

Tony

shbazjinkens
06-13-2004, 03:48 AM
Originally posted by Tony Richardson
I think it is a wonderful image! To me thats all that matters. I could care less if it's technically accurate down to the micrometer. Who in the hell cares. You presented it as an image not as a technical paper on how a bolt is engineered. Some people on this forum need to get their head out of their ass and try and enjoy life and some of its simple pleasures.

Clients care, and that's all that matters if you're getting paid.. plus, it's a hugely detailed image, and if a major detail (in this case it is major, because it is zoomed in so far) is incorrect, it should be fixed, regardless of how good it looks to the untrained eye or someone just plain unfamiliar. I wouldn't have noticed.. but does it matter? If that's not what it looks like, that's not how it should be modelled, unless there's some reason for it.

KolbyJukes
06-13-2004, 03:58 AM
Great image. Great accomplishment.

I can't believe that attitude of some people on this forum...

Michael Chen
06-13-2004, 04:26 AM
Wow, just bolts :thumbsup:

Don't tell me your getting into nuts :D

Great job :)

Jackdeth
06-13-2004, 05:59 AM
I usually don't pipe in on these threads only because of the overly positive banter that drowns out any useful feedback. We are already at page 11, and what real comments have been given? Let me try to be the un-sugar coated voice of reason...

At first look its interesting, but very simple and basic. (That doesn't mean bad) The low depth of field sampling is a real nasty eye sore, as is the brownish color palete. It only feels a little "photograhic," mostly due to the extreme contrast ratio and over-sharpness where it is in focus.

Flaten out the image by lifting the blacks, and then de-saturate it as well. Fix the sampling issues, but then re-add real film grain, but not before you do an edge-detect blur to take off the CG sharpness.

It's a nice raytrace image, but nothing to set CGtalk on fire. I don't want to come off as a hard ass, but come on people. If Arsney really wants real feedback, he doesn't need 11 pages of fan mail to make himself feel better. Either add something useful, or move on.... but don't overwhelm this thread in such a "over the top" way.

Ogi
06-13-2004, 09:36 AM
BEAUTIFUL , and that´s how simple it is!!!!

DenkoM
06-13-2004, 11:17 AM
from minimum to maximum , its perfect:applause:

Trurl
06-13-2004, 03:53 PM
Nice… :thumbsup:

3d123
06-13-2004, 07:38 PM
i think that you should p[ut the blots in a different scence like where someone is working or something.

MuzzzY
06-13-2004, 09:49 PM
I think, you should be write a tutorial :p
And then end of this discussion :beer:

MuzzzY
06-13-2004, 09:56 PM
sorry I wrote the same of two times this post.:rolleyes:

moonwalker
06-14-2004, 01:23 AM
waow man that is some cool bolts:thumbsup:

xjgd4321
06-14-2004, 04:08 AM
Very true
The copper's felling is very beautiful
Work is very complete:thumbsup:
:applause:

Sqwall
06-14-2004, 07:41 AM
Very nice. I love the damn bolts. The image the composition the light and the reflections are top notch man. :beer:

aQu
06-14-2004, 02:01 PM
Amazing render! I couldn't make it look more real even with my camera :P

Arseny
06-15-2004, 07:20 AM
MuzzzY,
i hope i could write a tutorial as soon as i have two free hours..

Ollarin
06-15-2004, 08:14 AM
Very nice image! :thumbsup:

i hope i could write a tutorial as soon as i have two free hours..

That would be awesome!

Teckniel
06-15-2004, 09:31 AM
yeah a tutorial would be nice :d

lac
06-15-2004, 03:04 PM
yeah! write a tutorial on how to get 12 pages in only one thread, hehe it'll be very usefull

Z1K0B4
06-15-2004, 03:44 PM
Thats easy! Post a photorealistic render, and dont post a wire upon people's request for like 2 days! Make them wonder! Oh the Drama!

treed
07-17-2004, 01:41 AM
OMFG, thats so damn awesome. I was browsing the splutterfish forums and stumbled over this. Those images are EXTREMELY realistic dude. Very nice work!

Velgor
07-20-2004, 10:51 PM
What is art? And why the derogatory tone asbout just taking a photo instead. Does that mean a photo is less a piece of art?

IMHO, art is something that stirs the emotion and/or engages the viewer. Not everything that grabs your attention is art, and not all art grabs everyone's attention. It's VERY subjective. The medium isn't the point or art, though it is the point of this forum. We are here to enjoy 3D (in this forum) art for art's sake.

I have been enthralled by hyper-detailed space ships hanging in the void of space, and smiled at the simple box robot that had a charming expression. I've been to the Louvre in Paris and gazed at the Mona Lisa and at hundreds of paintings lining the gallery walls. For the most part, I didn't recognize ANYBODY (excepting good ol' Mona, but that's because she's a "rockstar" in the art world) and yet many still had a hold over me. I recognized humanity in the images. I recognized the human form, often lifelike - even startlingly so.

Appreciation of art is like a belief in religion or politics. It can be a deeply personal thing. Since it can be so personal it can also evoke a passionate response. I think we all should be aware of this and seperate the critique of the image from an "attack" on the person.

I was once told by an airbrush artist/caricaturist that since I didn't have skills in the "traditional arts" and only worked on the computer that I wasn't an artist.

Was he right? I don't think so...

dickma
07-21-2004, 04:20 AM
I am SO surprised that this post can still raise the interests of judging this is art or not...and those appreciation POV.

I like this sentence "We are here to enjoy 3D (in this forum) art for art's sake" It reminds me that somebody told me, I've joined a freaker's society.

I don't want to hassle with that... What I know is when Leonardo da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa, the camera wasn't invented yet. I think if the camera invented at his time. I believe Vinci will become Picasso because painting Mona Lisa is just an easy task...make a snap shot of her. Of course he can break though the limitation of painting and may be create another -isms of painting.

I would like to take a point that why we appreciate the art by the masters because from the history, we are making some comparisons from the ancient time to modern. We will appreciate those paintings and drawings are created due to the limitation of techniques and technology.

At last. I would like to remind myself that I am searching for creativity.

neu
07-21-2004, 06:22 AM
HAHAHA :) You guys are crazy :) I think it should be the most viewed thread novadays. What a good marketing for the creator :)

Congratulations, it's a very cool image. This is where the simple idea meets the good technical knowledge...most of people working hard on modeling difficult stuffs (like me), but almost nonoe of them can achive this level of realism :)

Greetings, neu

ElDo
07-21-2004, 10:39 AM
Very nice job u made there Arsenic! i very realistic 3d work :thumbsup: ,also other 3d works on ur website are great!!


for the others:

Hi, im a registered user of this forums recently, this is the first thread i really got deep, and i am a bit dissapointed about some replies of certain people..asking for wires to proof thats not a lie, telling hes a photographer and IT must be a photo coz he dont have more skills.. half of the replys some people maked are just pointless..is ok to make critics of the works, thats they way artist get better doing their works, but what about make critics to the artist and not the work, thats just lame.. the guy have a site and HAVE the WIRE on it SO DONT MAKE 30 REPLYS ASKING FOR IT!! use ur BRAINS and try to search for ur OWN and stop spamming!!!!!
[sorry for my bad english]

Lem
07-21-2004, 10:45 AM
fantastic photorealism. congrats, i am very impressed :)

Lem

Max4d
07-21-2004, 01:27 PM
Though i found it relatively easy to spot that's it's cg( the lightning is ALWAYs what ****s up the difference between real and non-real) i don't find it realy easy to see why you people like this piece so much. True, technologically speaking, it's very very good. And though he is using standard and advanced rendering methods to create an image he also has to use his mind to let those lights and rendering methods work together. On that level, i must say you did quite a good job........... but still. it's nothing more then a technologically piece of work which could easiliy be defined as a simple try-out. It does deserve the front-page, not because of the image, but because it's easy to see that it would start a discussion and we can't have those enough. The composition is one of a simple 5 year old who trows a coupe of bolts on the floor, the textures are not that good and the rest can't be discussed about cause it's part in this piece is to small to be of any value. The only thing is the lightning and even that one is realized wih brazil and hdri.............. yet the image stand out and even makes people think it's non-cg when almost warning him to not post photographs on a professional cg forum.... :hmm:

I don't think this is real art, then again, i think that 90 % of the pieces that are posted here are non-art. Only a few can realy try to understand art, yet no one can realy comprehend it. Art is notas open minded as most of you people think.

Max4d

Velgor
07-21-2004, 07:50 PM
I don't think this is real art, then again, i think that 90 % of the pieces that are posted here are non-art. Only a few can realy try to understand art, yet no one can realy comprehend it. Art is notas open minded as most of you people think.

Max4d Just because you disagree with someone's interpretation of an issue doesn't mean there is no merit to it. My opinion is that the image has artistic merit. I also agree that it appeals to me from a technical aspect more so than an esthetic, but does that make it any less of an artistic work? When a digital artist recreates the Roman Colliseum in all its splendor, does that make it any less a work of art? I don't think so! It's called Realism.

However, on the flip side, I don't really appreciate the Picasso style and other modernists such as cubists, etc. Jackson Pollack looks like he just painted his livingroom and then nailed the drop cloth to a canvas and called it "art". To me, most of it looks like something I did when I was 4 years old. I don't like it, but I don't deny that it is a creative work of art. It's just not in my taste.

This piece isn't trying to change the world or expand our minds. But I believe that it did what any piece of art tries to do...evoke some sort of emotional response and capture our imaginations. Often times the setting for a piece or where it is displayed can have a big impact, such as a color photo of a daisy against a black and white prison yard, or a photo-realistic pile of screws on a 3d digital forum.

I come to this site to view 3D images, sometimes 2D as well. If I don't like something, I'll click away. If I think something could use some tinkering, I'll offer a critique to try and help enhance the results (more to my liking, which may not be for others). I will never presume to force my point of view and deny someone's expression as being somehow "wrong" just because I don't see the point to it.

Let's stick with encouraging others and make us all better artists or technicians. Let's keep away from forcing everything into little boxes and stomping on that lone daisy standing in the prison yard.

Is there in truth, no beauty?

kaffo
07-21-2004, 08:40 PM
:thumbsup: oh my, that is pretty freking realistic! I love the texture!

ElDo
07-21-2004, 08:57 PM
Well sayd Velgor, ur post should be make sticky so everyone read and make their post a bit more 'wise'

Gräck
07-21-2004, 10:04 PM
I don't like the image, because it's boring. Just some nails...:rolleyes:
But I'm impressed by the realism that 3d-renderers can produce.
Furthermore, the modeling of the nails is pretty nice... ;)

dcmoutinho
07-21-2004, 10:08 PM
its so realistic ! nice work !:thumbsup:

Flip_Render
07-21-2004, 10:39 PM
Yep, they sure are good renders! And even without micro-poly displacement (not in Brazil yet), the scratches are soooo beautifully detailed (with a bump map?). How big were the textures?

The only thing that makes this look CG:ish is, that it looks too balanced and beautiful ;)

Great stuff! Please, make a tutorial!!

BESTrin
07-22-2004, 12:05 AM
If i ever want 12 pages of posts i will either post a photorealistic render and then no wire or post and image and ask is my render art?

if i want 24 pages or replies ill do both.

JustinAlvarez
07-22-2004, 01:34 AM
amazing work! Probably one of the most realistic 3d images i've seen. Congrats!

raelic
07-22-2004, 06:20 PM
Someone around the beginning posted that they were wondering how he did the threads in the screws. my guess is that he modelled them as nails and took a helix and overlapped it a little around the outer edge of the model and subtracted it out to get the ridges of the screws thread...or atleast thats what I would have done. Very nice either way!

internot
07-26-2004, 12:54 PM
"A successful work of art is not one which resolves contradictions in a spurious harmony, but one which expresses the idea of harmony negatively by embodying the contradictions, pure and uncompromised, in its innermost structure." Adorno

"Art is a selective re-creation of reality according to an artist's metaphysical value-judgments. An artist recreates those aspects of reality which represent his fundamental view of man's nature." Proust

Is the render of the bollts art? No. It does not represent its creator's view of reality nor tell us anything about human nature. It is a technical exercise, nothing more.

Velgor
07-28-2004, 12:24 AM
Art is:

- the products of human creativity

A form of human activity created primarily as an aesthetic expression, especially, but not limited to drawing, painting and sculpture

"art does not need to be innovative to be good"

The skillful application of correct knowledge in the order of making. It is a habit residing in the soul of the artist which is ordered toward making rather than mere doing.

Art is not, as the metaphysicians say, the manifestation of some mysterious idea of beauty or God; it is not, as the aesthetical physiologists say, a game in which man lets off his excess of stored-up energy; it is not the expression of man's emotions by external signs; it is not the production of pleasing objects; and, above all, it is not pleasure; but it is a means of union among men, joining them together in the same feelings, and indispensable for the life and progress toward well-being of individuals and of humanity. - Leo Tolstoy.


I can get quotes too. But it doesn't really change things, does it? To coin a phrase; art is as art does.

Robert Barrett Browning would tell people that their interpretation of one of his poems was correct and very insightful, even if those intrepretations were contradictory. Why? Was he just being faceous? I believe that he was saying that whatever we feel or think about an artistic expression is the correct answer because it is the correct answer for that individual. Whatever viceral response you get is the right one for you. No two people can look at anything without having their own intrepretation of the object. Our individual nature and life experiences make us unique. Sure, there is a lot of cross-over and common experience, but still there is a vast amount of difference.

For example, if I look at a puppy I may recall events from very early childhood and the joys of playing with my first puppy at age 3. However, someone else may be saddened by the memory of the loss of a favorite pet years and years ago. Isn't it still a puppy that we are both looking at? Am I wrong to feel joy at its antics, and floppy eared playfulness? Or is the other wrong by feeling a tinge of grief for a departed pet?

No. We are both correct. Each intrepretation is the right one for that person. And to make this even more ephemeral, that feeling or reaction will change. My mood might be different and I only see the chewed shoes or soiled rug when I look at the puppy and the other guy recalls his joys of playing catch with Rover.

We will never agree on what is or is not art. I believe that you can find art in almost anything that brings some sort of emotional or intellectual response. There is art in the ordinary. It doesn't have to be pretty to be art, and it doesn't have to change the world or make me weep either. Maybe I don't have such a rigid view because I don't have "formal" training. I'm not saying that any such education is limiting, but rather that I've formed my own opinion through experience. Hey, maybe I AM wrong. What's the harm in that? Someone has to buy the velvet paintings of Elvis...One man's treasure is another man's garbage.

All I am asking is for people to be more open minded and not so quick to judge. If you like it, say so. If you don't, try to suggest something to make it better (constructively) or just go on your way. Trying to browbeat, or use flawed logic won't ever do more than engender anger and 13 page threads.

igami
07-28-2004, 01:02 AM
:buttrock: Incredible! Really Nice Piece.:buttrock:

internot
07-28-2004, 08:49 AM
Okay, it is fine to say that everything is art. But that doesn't get us anywhere, does it? It's fine to say that everyone is different and all viewpoints are equally valid. But that doesn't tell us anything. We may as well say nothing at all.

My point is that defending something as "art" should not be taken lightly, especially in a forum for "artists." Are the people in here trying to create art? That should be answered, and saying "no" isn't a bad thing. We don't need to call everything art. But if at least some of us ARE trying to create something that is MORE than an image, more than a collection of pixels (whatever this "more" means) we ought to have an idea of what it is that we are trying to do.

Now, this can be answered by each person in their own way. However, as the real MEANING of being human lies in our SOCIAL interaction, perhaps we should come up with a shared understanding. We could ask questions: what is it that moves you? Are you trying to create something that is moving? Or is a pile of bolts that looks like a pile of bolts all we are trying to create. It looks good, it may be art, but does it do anything worthwhile for anyone? Let's make moral judgements: is it a waste of valuable human energy to make a flawless image of bolts? I think so. If it serves the purpose of getting its creator a job and therefore money, fine. But let's not say that it is what we are all striving to create, as members of a society. We should have more MEANINGFUL things on our minds than how to make bolts look real. I think.

So, we should judge works that are posted on here by terms that are more than technical. Let's try to talk about beauty and what moves us and what gets us in touch with something higher than ourselves. I think THAT is the purpose of art. And we should be concerned with art, even if everything we do isn't artistic.

But, once again, if you want to call everything art and say that everything is good (or that it doesn't matter), then you don't need to say anything at all.

CGTrader
07-28-2004, 10:08 AM
oh please.. I hate when someone starts to pop in all this social interaction bulls**t into the meaning of art. Then perhaps we should start talking about our subconsciousness and what we really are? Here I like to say we are automatic creatures, with merely enormous amount of predefined actions. But that's of course another topic. I dont think we should give art such prominence. To me art is something that you do and the result gives pleasure to yourself. If it also gives pleasure to others - great, then you can proud of yourself. Whatever you do. Whether it is technical thing or painting, doesn't matter. I think a car is also art creation. Someone has said a very good sentence: "when you clearly understand essence of things, see reasons and outcome, then we have possibility to estimate. Then all we have to do is to head our operations in to the right direction and we can create".

P.S. read my signature, that also explains a lot ;)

Max4d
07-28-2004, 10:30 AM
oh please.. I hate when someone starts to pop in all this social interaction bulls**t into the meaning of art (http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=art&v=56). Then perhaps we should start talking about our subconsciousness and what we really are?
If you don't bother who you are are and what you're capable of, then why do you even bother to live??

CGTrader
07-28-2004, 10:48 AM
"A successful work of art is not one which resolves contradictions in a spurious harmony, but one which expresses the idea of harmony negatively by embodying the contradictions, pure and uncompromised, in its innermost structure." Adorno

"Art is a selective re-creation of reality according to an artist's metaphysical value-judgments. An artist recreates those aspects of reality which represent his fundamental view of man's nature." Proust

Is the render of the bollts art? No. It does not represent its creator's view of reality nor tell us anything about human nature. It is a technical exercise, nothing more. I missed that one. Now that's more than funny. You just copy/pasted someones ideas and made conclusion from them. Man don't you have your own opinion? Of course, if Proust has said so, then so it be. Here we have a definition of art. I don't think we should set standards here..
You start MAX for the first time and in one click create a teapot. If it looks cool for you, then you can call it art. Another question, how long it will look nice to you? Maybe tomorrow you will start thinking about something more sophisticated. Here we have perfection of oneself.
Another question: what's the difference in sense of art between Mona Lisa and these bolts image? I see no difference, maybe only that I like more these bolts.

internot
07-28-2004, 11:03 AM
"You start MAX for the first time and in one click create a teapot. If it looks cool for you, then you can call it art. Another question, how long it will look nice to you? Maybe tomorrow you will start thinking about something more sophisticated. Here we have perfection of oneself."

so art just has to look cool for you? that's it? the mona lisa looks cool, the teapot looks cool, the bolts look cool: they're all art. great. everything is art. so i do something, say make a teapot. i'm now an artist. don't i fell good, i can make art. i can pat myself on the back for making something as good as the mona lisa. it's all art, after all.

why don't we demand more than teapots? the mona lisa, after all, was not easy to paint. i couldn't do it. granted, i couldn't make those bolts, either, but somehow i think it would be a bit easier. but that isn't the point. it's a cop-out to call everything art. THAT'S the point. if you are an artist, and you make art, why not defend it? why not let people know why the should look at it and appreciate it. "Oh, but it's all art, it's all good. Why judge another person's effort?" Because we SHOULD have standards, we SHOULD demand more than (a) "looking cool" or (b) technical perfection.

Once again: art should move us. Why do we expect less? Are we too lazy or untalented to make anything BETTER than teapots?

adren@line
07-28-2004, 11:11 AM
art is the result of anything that involves creative energy or expression.

CGTrader
07-28-2004, 11:40 AM
"THAT'S the point. if you are an artist, and you make art, why not defend it? why not let people know why the should look at it and appreciate it."

first of all because I do it for myself, I get most pleasure if I like it.

Once again: art should move us. Why do we expect less? Are we too lazy or untalented to make anything BETTER than teapots?

art should move us... I don't clearly understand what do you want to say? I think we both are talking about the same thing. move, get pleasure, motivate us to live.. but then I ask what motivates us to create an art? It's the same thing, the pleasure we get from the creation, boast we get from it. nobody expect less and it's not the question. If your teapot will drive you crazy all your remaining life, then I can say you are a very lucky man. for yourself you will be perfect and unimprovable artist. But if you endeavour at perfection then probably all your life you will want to create something more than your last creation. And maybe at the end you will create Mona Lisa or image of a pile of bolts in the way that will knock out anyone who will see it. It's everybody's choice to set stadards. for himself. that's why we shouldn't do it.

Zhai Tian-Feng
07-28-2004, 11:53 AM
What is art to some is not art to others.

These bolts moved me.

This forum is about computer graphics.

Art does not need to be intentionally.

I don't like to sit and say this piece is art and that piece is not art.

Atwooki
07-28-2004, 12:20 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Yawn - wish you guys would comprehend (and appreciate!) the difference between the words 'ART' and CRAFT' someday......
Of course, everybody wants to be thought of as an artist rather than a craftsman don't they!

Technically speaking, the 'bolts' is brilliant piece (no doubt), but use the approriate adjective, please.

funchski
07-28-2004, 12:34 PM
What software was used for the modelling - Rhino?

Art or not, I like it.

orion119net
07-28-2004, 12:40 PM
:drool: great render! i wish i could do that.

CGTrader
07-28-2004, 12:45 PM
:rolleyes: yeaah, so sad that many of us cannot be artists.
:whispering: I have heard that artists can see dead people..

jcbray
07-28-2004, 01:33 PM
Two people are looking at a green wall, one is colour-blind. One man claims to see a green wall, the other a red wall. Who is right? Both are telling the truth exactly as they see it. If your going to argue that a group of people will prove the colour blind man to be wrong, then you're being childish. Consensus of the majority does not create truth.

The debate of whether this is or is not art (or craft :P) is irrelevant. All that is important is your own point of view. Whether you feel the need to express your opinion to everyone else here is your own issue (hurrah freedom of speech) if you're going to condemn other people for their opinion, then..well you know what you can do.

-DN-
07-28-2004, 02:45 PM
Why do people say "post wires, post wires.." Look on his site and you'll find the wires of the given image. As for the wires confirming its not a fake... well people can model to the likeness of a photo image and them match them up... SO wires doesnt mean much from an image this simple, A screen grab from the 3d package with wires in the view port and the material/shader hierachy open is proof positive.

Tonal
07-28-2004, 03:37 PM
Two people are looking at a green wall, one is colour-blind. One man claims to see a green wall, the other a red wall. Who is right? Both are telling the truth exactly as they see it. If your going to argue that a group of people will prove the colour blind man to be wrong, then you're being childish. Consensus of the majority does not create truth.

Well spoken sir. I agree wholeheartedly that actual truth is a personal experience. Especially when it comes to art. :)

Velgor
07-28-2004, 07:15 PM
Well spoken sir. I agree wholeheartedly that actual truth is a personal experience. Especially when it comes to art. :)
That was the point I was trying to make too.

Art and life are totally subjective. To deny someone's expression just because it doesn't fit your criterion for "art" is what I find offensive. The definition of art is not a stark black and white delineation. Art doesn't have to be pleasing - it can be shocking or revolting too. Art doesn't have to have a deep meaning or emotional impact. Art can engage the mind as well. Art can rise above itself too. Meaning is injected into it by the viewer.

I also believe that almost everyone has the capacity to be an artist in some way. Art is not just paint, or wood, metal or plastic, it's words, sounds, ideas, emotion...We all can be creative, some more so than others. Don't stifle that. You never know what wonders there may be.

Some artists are better than others in expressing themselves. Some art is "better" than other art because, to you, it communicates to or inspires you more.

adren@line
07-28-2004, 10:27 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Yawn - wish you guys would comprehend (and appreciate!) the difference between the words 'ART' and CRAFT' someday......
Of course, everybody wants to be thought of as an artist rather than a craftsman don't they!

Technically speaking, the 'bolts' is brilliant piece (no doubt), but use the approriate adjective, please.instead of worrying about the semantics between "art" and "craft", perhaps your energies would be better spent in trying to get a girlfriend (or boyfriend, you never know), as then you wouldnt be so uptight.

:)

BESTrin
07-28-2004, 11:36 PM
A painter could paint a black dot on a red square with blue stripe and it would be art. A sculpter could make a strange shape out of clay and that would be art. Yet a piece of digital art is always doubted. I could make an image of a sphere and go into photoshop and make it look kindof kool and to the general population it would be considered art. I could do a little autogenerated teragen landscape or something in bryce and it would be accepted by most people but if i posted it on these forums i would be laughed at. So digital artists work hard to make a unique beauhtiful technically dificult piece. Something that will be respected by those in our field. Then its not art. Its a craft project. Its photorealistic so its not art he could of just taken a picture. Its not photorealistic so its crap no skill no art. Just by the fact that there is an image of something that never existed is something to think about in way that can make it art. Who are we to judge what is art. What is art anyway.

Atwooki
07-29-2004, 02:17 AM
adren@line:
Haha! I am married, not gay , and have lots of energy ;)

Atwooki

Aceroner
07-29-2004, 06:56 AM
I don't see what's so amazing about this image. Just an instanced model, some HDRI, and an assload of DOF and film grain. It's not particularly unbelievable that someone could do this in CG. ok tough guy, let me see you do it if it is so easy

Jackdeth
07-29-2004, 07:01 AM
I usually don't pipe in on these threads only because of the overly positive banter that drowns out any useful feedback. We are already at page 11, and what real comments have been given? Let me try to be the un-sugar coated voice of reason...

At first look its interesting, but very simple and basic. (That doesn't mean bad) The low depth of field sampling is a real nasty eye sore, as is the brownish color palete. It only feels a little "photograhic," mostly due to the extreme contrast ratio and over-sharpness where it is in focus.

Flaten out the image by lifting the blacks, and then de-saturate it as well. Fix the sampling issues, but then re-add real film grain, but not before you do an edge-detect blur to take off the CG sharpness.

It's a nice raytrace image, but nothing to set CGtalk on fire. I don't want to come off as a hard ass, but come on people. If Arsney really wants real feedback, he doesn't need 11 pages of fan mail to make himself feel better. Either add something useful, or move on.... but don't overwhelm this thread in such a "over the top" way.
Posted again for effect.

internot
07-29-2004, 07:18 AM
Atwooki, I'm with you all the way.

What is it with the ARTISTS that are posting here that cannot even give a coherent definition of art? or tell the difference between art and craft? come on people, take some pride in what you do and don't give me (and everyone else) this whole "it's all subjective and therefore all good art" bullshit. does art (as opposed to just images, etc) do anything besides give a little pleasure? are you trying to SAY anything (perhaps give an alternate view of reality/theworld so people will have to engage their minds)? does no one have standards?

another question: what makes "good" or "great" art better than normal art?

take the futurists, for example. they had a certain view of art:
http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/T4PM/futurist-manifesto.html

merdzan
07-29-2004, 09:20 AM
wow! beatuful render!!!

Velgor
07-30-2004, 12:01 AM
does no one have standards?

another question: what makes "good" or "great" art better than normal art?

Sure, we all have standards. My standards of good art tend toward realism. If it looks like something that I could reach out and touch, that's pretty good. Maybe even great. This standard I apply toward paintings, drawings and digital works (motion & still). Photography is a different category, and so I tend to look for a more emotive response, something that catches a feeling or essence of something. I also apply this toward "traditional" and digital works.

Then there is the surreal, which I also enjoy, but again with a bias toward the more realistic.

To answer your questions of what makes art normal, good or great? Sorry, I'll have to pull out that "bull$4!7" argument of subjectivity. The more people that enjoy a piece of art, the "better" or perhaps more accurately, more "popular" it is considered to be. However, popular works are generally considered to be generally less sophisticated and more of a fad than any long standing piece that reflects the human condition. Here today and gone tomorrow...A great piece of art is usually something that moves or inspires a good number of people as well as critics.

Ah, the critics...those "professionals" who know what is best for us and what we shouldn't like because they said so. My opinion of such people tends toward the negative. I view them, as a whole, to be arrogant and out of touch. But then, I also hate lawyers...

The Mona Lisa is a great piece of art. It's been around 500 years gaining accolades across the generations of public and critic alike. We like it. But, when I saw it hanging in the Louvre in Paris I thought it was pretty nice, but damn, I saw some "better" portraits on the gallery wall that impressed me more. And as we go back in time, works such as the bayeaux tapestry, another work considered to be great, I see more of a historical document rather than an artwork. The figures are flat and almost childish...I don't find it to be quite as engaging..and other medieval works look almost comical.

So, I have to go back to the original point. Art is subjective. We all have our preferences and bias. A piece that is great for one may be lambasted by another. Art usually appeals to the emotions and therefore will (or should) always remain subjective. If you like it, good. If you don't, good. Let it be.

If you want absolutes, try looking at math. 1+1=2. However, even there we find a slippery slope with fractals and their implementation into computer art...

"Mandelbrot, Julia?"
"Yes, please."

PS If you really want to get a heated argument going, let's discuss Bryce and Poser. :grin: Personally I don't use them, but I'm not going to knock those who get enjoyment out of it. And hey, sometimes they DO make a pretty picture...

qur
07-30-2004, 05:49 PM
arseny its a awesome work good job:bounce: :bounce: :applause:


and you guys what is this forum about??
it's art or not?
if you see this image in a photo gallery you will say this is a photo
in this thread you can not bu sure:)
thats the point man that's art......
so go on and argue if it's art or not

arseny if i were you i won't even post a wire:scream:
for 1 week to see who kills who

and now who is the winner???

Kid-Mesh
07-30-2004, 06:53 PM
...read through this thread and to be honest all I can do at this point is just laugh.


-km

Velgor
07-30-2004, 07:35 PM
...read through this thread and to be honest all I can do at this point is just laugh.


-km
Hey, why not throw in your two cents too? We're philosophising about the nature of art itself! Be careful, some are taking it a bit too seriously...

pearl3d
07-30-2004, 07:46 PM
reallllllllllll
excellent work !!!!!!:applause:

Poor old father Olsen
07-31-2004, 04:14 AM
er ye....they look like real bolts.... :applause:

BESTrin
07-31-2004, 04:19 AM
yes reading this thread can give a few laughs and yes maybe this discussion is pointless but dont ruin it. Theres nothing like a good ol cgtalk debate.


internot, im not tying to say that your wrong, wait yes i am. Is the monalisa art, critics marvel at her realistic hands and such, well is it any less dificult to replicate that in cg. Oh and i forgot she has that smile well its not realy that thought provoking. I dont mean to dis it its a very nice peice and a great achievement and my congrats to you leonardo, but why is none of this art and why does everyone have low standards. Maybe everyone just has diferent perceptions, a piece might realy affect you (not that this screws piece did, me) and someone else might say thats not art why do you have low standards. who are they to say that to you. If its art to you then what does it matter. a pieces popularity does not decide its worth. I agree that there are many more thought provoking pieces and many better pieces but that doesnt mean that its not art. It might provoke thoughts of ho it was achieved or just amazement that those screws never existed and that just because are eyes see something doesnt make it real. Take my friend joe, no-one else can see him, but i can, does that make me skitzofrenic yes, does it make everyone else just blind and unable to see him, yes. Its just perspective.

you raised a questiona bout degrees of art. Thats a much better argument even though it is a personal thing.




ps. im not really skitzofrenic i was just making a point.

Bertha Big
07-31-2004, 12:57 PM
very impressive stuff, great reflections !

CGTalk Moderation
01-18-2006, 10:00 AM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.