which CPU to choose?

[dudders]

imho for your processor i would go with amd .

...get lots and lots of ram and a semi decent graphics card and you should be good to go.

Also dont buy anything BRAND new (not 64 yet), because you'll be paying over the odds.

and make sure you build it yourself as this will save you a few hundred pounds.

[richcz3]

I almost sprung for the AMD 64 3200 last week based on its raw speed for application performance.

-but

64Bit is useless now a days for practical reasons.
Yes there is a Beta Windows64 you can get but there is such a dearth of drivers available. Of course if your into Linux, you could get an earful as to why 64Bit is the way to spend.

That doesn't mean that the current 64Bit processors aren't fast, because, they are. Not so much a component of their 64bitness though. More an effect of their better design and component integration (Speaking of AMD). By this time next year a 64bit proc will make better sense (OS wise).

Considering your budget, a 32Bit proc/Motherboard, 3D card, and memory are your best investments for the money in your budget.
I would lean toward AMD for the proc. An nForce2 Motherboard, nVidia card (better OpenGL drivers). minimum 1Gig PC-3200 DDR 400 memory or better.


richcz3

[status quo]

heh.

reply to my threads since i posted this.

either go for an INTEL Pentium4 or an AMD Athlon 64.

if your on ultra budget like yourself go for an athlon XP. note athlon XPs run hotter than pentium 4s precott excluded.

what do u already have for your box? ie hard drive, dvd-rom etc?

what current setup do you have?

do u need to buy a monitor etc with your budget?

do you want a specialized GFX card such as a quadro?

for SATA vs IDE the hard drive is the limitation not the connector.

if you want ultra fast hard drive look into western digital raptors.

-----------------
a final note.

always remember you will never find your computer to be as fast as you thought it would be and most people are often dissapointed.

a dual setup would most be useful for rendering times. but i don't see it as a neccessity.

[singularity2006]

For reference, this is what I recently got for my parents to use (low end but good whammy):

Biostar Small Form Factor system for $200 w/ the nForce2 chipset.
80GB Western Digital Drive: $70
Athlon XP 2600: $80
Corsair Value Select 512MB: $90
Wireless Keyboard and mouse from M$: $40
(*numbers above are not exact but rough guestimates)

Everything was from newegg.com. That's all under $500 after shipping, handling, and tax. As for everything else, I used the onboard stuff.

Anyhow, that's just a reference system for what you can get at half of your budget. With double that budget, you can get like 2GB of RAM and an Athlon XP 3000 on a 400MHz FSB and a new video card.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by richcz3
I almost sprung for the AMD 64 3200 last week based on its raw speed for application performance.

-but

64Bit is useless now a days for practical reasons.


Very erroneous recommendation.

While there is not a retail 64 bit windows OS, that is really irrelevant to any benefits A64 might have or not.

And 64 bit is a future upgrade anyway. It runs 32 bit apps BETTER than most 32 bit processors currently on the market.

Yes there is a Beta Windows64 you can get but there is such a dearth of drivers available. Of course if your into Linux, you could get an earful as to why 64Bit is the way to spend.

Several major drivers are available from a number of vendors. Video, raid controllers etc. Not 100%, but still irrelevant since A64 works 100% with existing 32 bit WinXP.

That doesn't mean that the current 64Bit processors aren't fast, because, they are. Not so much a component of their 64bitness though. More an effect of their better design and component integration (Speaking of AMD). By this time next year a 64bit proc will make better sense (OS wise).

It's those design additions that make it an attractive option for power users. Regardless of 64 bit support or lack of.


Considering your budget, a 32Bit proc/Motherboard, 3D card, and memory are your best investments for the money in your budget.
I would lean toward AMD for the proc. An nForce2 Motherboard, nVidia card (better OpenGL drivers). minimum 1Gig PC-3200 DDR 400 memory or better.


Actaully pricing is a very large reason TO consider A64 since it isn't really much more expensive than a 32 bit processor, and performs a whole hell of a lot better.

Cost of motherboards are identical. Anywhere from 99.00 to as much as 175.00 for both nForce2 32 bit boards, and nForce3 250 A64 boards.

Exact same cost for drives, memory, Video cards etc.

The CPU prices are not all that different either, Top of the Line XP is 175.00 3200+

He can get an A64 3000+ for 205.00 and gain substantial benefits over the performance of the only slightly cheaper XP.

Or for just a few dollars more he can get an A64 3200+

So there is absolutely no reason to settle for an outdated processor like the XP series when for less than what he might spend on a PS2 game, or half a tank of gas, he can get a LOT better.

[richcz3]

Ahh AMDMax, it's been a long time. :D

Not erronious in the least, may I suggest its an objective view using someone elses budget.
I have 9 AMD systems but I stop short of jumping the latest greatest for a prospective future use. CPU's and GPU's run in 6 month cycles or less. I simply suggest maximizing it's potential when its due. Investing way outside a cycle reminds me of people buying $399 GeForce 4 in anticipation of Doom 3's release.

singularity2006 has a much cooler head and offers real attractive price points with money to spare.

Don't get me wrong, I am still eyballing those 64's. :drool: I expect the price to performance points in 3-4 months will a no brainer.

There is one other detail AMDMax may have overlooked. The XP Proc chipsets will not support PCI-Express nor will any future XP revs.


richcz3

[MadMax]

Originally posted by richcz3
Ahh AMDMax, it's been a long time. :D

Not erronious in the least, may I suggest its an objective view using someone elses budget.


As did I when I suggested said advice was erroneous as I clearly demonstrated that the averasge pricing between an XP and the A64 is not a budget breaker since the parts are identical across the board with the minor exception of the CPU, and the price difference is barely the cost of a couple of Pizza's.

Therefore, since cost is obviously not an issue in making the choice here, the only criteria is perfromance.

I have 9 AMD systems but I stop short of jumping the latest greatest for a prospective future use. CPU's and GPU's run in 6 month cycles or less. I simply suggest maximizing it's potential when its due. Investing way outside a cycle reminds me of people buying $399 GeForce 4 in anticipation of Doom 3's release.

singularity2006 has a much cooler head and offers real attractive price points with money to spare.

While the original poster did not state an exact budget in dollars, his comments were quite clear and specific. He wants a powerful system, and he considers dual an option.

Recommending a budget system is the same as going to a car dealer and wanting a sports car, but the salesman recommends a Yugo instead.

It is not what the person asked for.

Don't get me wrong, I am still eyballing those 64's. :drool: I expect the price to performance points in 3-4 months will a no brainer.

There is one other detail AMDMax may have overlooked. The XP Proc chipsets will not support PCI-Express nor will any future XP revs.

The price/performance level is attractive now. In 3-4 months there will be something new to wait for. Constantly waiting is a pointless endeavor.

And No, I didn't overlook anything. XP's are a dead end and not even cost effective anymore.

[richcz3]

Originally posted by Vinzke
One remark though;it has to be affordable ;)
my budget is (for cpu('s), mobo, memory) is around 1000-1200 USD

thanks in advance! Vinzke

status quo makes a good point. Are you migrating other parts to the new system?
It would help to know what Power Supply in your ATX case is rated at. In some cases, power supplies are inadequate for big upgrades. So it helps to know what your current hardware setup is.


richcz3

[MadMax]

Using a local mail order dealer as an example, (MWave)

I built a system for a friend upgrading from a SLOT A Athlon.

Power supply replaced with a Thermaltake 420w unit

Gigabyte GA K8NPro

Athlon64 3000+

Leadtek My VIVO video card, I think it was a 5700.

And of course new Ram. Crucial TwinX 1024.

Total cost was 819.00

nForce3 250 has come out since then, and all the components are a bit cheaper now than when he got it a few months ago.

[Vinzke]

Originally posted by richcz3
Vinzke

status quo makes a good point. Are you migrating other parts to the new system?
It would help to know what Power Supply in your ATX case is rated at. In some cases, power supplies are inadequate for big upgrades. So it helps to know what your current hardware setup is.
richcz3


My current setup is pretty outdated .. but here it comes:

AMD thunderbird 1ghz
512 ram pc133
Gforce4 Ti4200 (128)
loads of GB's (on "old", normal ATA drives)
a simple AOpen case with (i guess) a 350W PSU

I would like to replace only the really outdated parts (cpu, memory, mainboard). Since the graphical card is still sufficient imo, I wouldn't replace it.


.. so If i get this right .. it actually IS better to invest in a 64bit cpu? If I don't benefit from it now, I will in a couple of months...
+ Almost everyone suggests AMD above Intel (because it's cheaper probably?)

Thanks everyone for your reactions so far!

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Vinzke
.. so If i get this right .. it actually IS better to invest in a 64bit cpu? If I don't benefit from it now, I will in a couple of months...
+ Almost everyone suggests AMD above Intel (because it's cheaper probably?)

Thanks everyone four your reactions so far!


Yes, it is better to invest in the A64.

First off, as I pointed out, the cost difference is almost non existant unless 25.00 - 40.00 difference is a deal breaker for you.

You do not get the benefits of 64 bit yet, but you do gain the benefits of an improved architecture.

You will get the benefits of SSE2 which makes a big difference on some programs, you get the increasaed perfromance over the older XP's and you get performance parity with higher end Intel processors.

Even if you only look at it as a 32 bit chip, it is well worth investing in.

There are boards out now with the nForce3 250 chipset which is an amazing piece of work. SATA controllers and Lan controllers are built into the chipset. That means they do not utilize the PCI bus like secondary controllers built onto the motherboard.

The 250 also has a built in hardware based Firewall.

Later when M$ does release a 64 bit OS and there are drivers available for most common hardware, you'll see an additional performance boost as apps begin to take advantage of it.

[status quo]

the computer will never be fast enough. nor will it ever be future proof :)

Gforce4 Ti4200 (128)
loads of GB's (on "old", normal ATA drives)
a simple AOpen case with (i guess) a 350W PSU

keep these


bearing in mind with SATA the performance is limited by the drive not the connector.

a point to note with MadMax is that he is baised as AMD only.

u can get an asus a7n8x-x board for approx $50

and an amd athlon xp say 2500 for approx $70

and a suitable ultra budget ultra quiet cooler would be the coolermaster x-dream or the spire whisperrock IV $10-$15 each

minimal outlay for the performance boost you are looking for over a 1ghz thunerbird.

i'll be running an athlon XP system for another 18 months.

i see not need for an athlon 64 unless u want it for novelty or to show some geeky friend of yours what benchmarks you can pull in FarCry.

you bank account will appreciate XP.

also the novelty wears off fast.

edit: another thing about MadMax because he loved the nforce 2 athlon XP chipset so much.

on his opinion and his only he would reccomend the nforce 3.

benchmark wise VIA's latestest chip if faster and just as stable.

[Vinzke]

what about single/dual cpu ?
Is there a great difference between the two?
Does performance really x2?
Or will it rather be x1,3?

Computer will be mainly used for 3dsmax (rendering), photoshop & adobe afterFX

[MadMax]

Originally posted by status quo
a point to note with MadMax is that he is baised as AMD only.

Please stick to the topic and avoid the cheap shots. Especially when your comments are wrong.

Making a recommendation based on facts is hardly a bias.

i see not need for an athlon 64 unless u want it for novelty or to show some geeky friend of yours what benchmarks you can pull in FarCry.

Novelty?

How is high end performance in 3D apps, editing, compositing, audio and encoding a novelty?

I find it quite satisfying to know that I have the fastest performance in Lightwave and Maya, and a number of other professional apps I use.

After all, getting the job done is what counts. Not game benchmarks.


edit: another thing about MadMax because he loved the nforce 2 athlon XP chipset so much.

on his opinion and his only he would reccomend the nforce 3.

benchmark wise VIA's latestest chip if faster and just as stable.


A pity people who cannot make a point with any experience or facts to back them up always resort to personal attacks.

Yes I was quite fond of the nForce2 chipset. It was the best performing Athlon chipset on the market and I really cannot see why you are constantly putting down performance for nickel and dime alternatives.

As for my recommendation of the nForce3 250, it's the best available. Period. Apparently a lot of VIA fans think so too. I have seen loads of people dumping thier K8T800 boards for nVidia boards this past month.

You can't comment much on performance of the chipsets since the memory controllers on A64 and Opteron are built into the CPU. That makes it a toss the coin deal over which to get. The issue becomes what extras are included and how those extras perform.

There is not a hardware site out there that hasn't showered praise all over the nForce3 250 for it's incredible raid performance based on it's integrated controller.

Good raid performance is something an animator would be interested in.

So you'll excuse me if I find your personal attacks somewhat laughable when you are commenting on something you have no experience with.

[status quo]

Please stick to the topic and avoid the cheap shots. Especially when your comments are wrong.

Making a recommendation based on facts is hardly a bias.

explain what is wrong with the statement?

its not a cheap shot. its the truth and backs up earlier statements by others.

based on facts? dude the INTEL P4 beats and athlon XP hands down.

Novelty?

How is high end performance in 3D apps, editing, compositing, audio and encoding a novelty?

I find it quite satisfying to know that I have the fastest performance in Lightwave and Maya, and a number of other professional apps I use.

After all, getting the job done is what counts. Not game benchmarks.

yes novelty. some people get excited when buying new hardware. all the "buzz" etc.

yes you may have the "fastest performance".

BUT is it neccessary?
and how does it relate to in real world?

what 30mins off a 12 hour render?

i was only using farcry due to its popularity and as an example of what some people are like.

also an Athlon XP gets the job done for me.


A pity people who cannot make a point with any experience or facts to back them up always resort to personal attacks.

Yes I was quite fond of the nForce2 chipset. It was the best performing Athlon chipset on the market and I really cannot see why you are constantly putting down performance for nickel and dime alternatives.

As for my recommendation of the nForce3 250, it's the best available. Period. Apparently a lot of VIA fans think so too. I have seen loads of people dumping thier K8T800 boards for nVidia boards this past month.

You can't comment much on performance of the chipsets since the memory controllers on A64 and Opteron are built into the CPU. That makes it a toss the coin deal over which to get. The issue becomes what extras are included and how those extras perform.

There is not a hardware site out there that hasn't showered praise all over the nForce3 250 for it's incredible raid performance based on it's integrated controller.

Good raid performance is something an animator would be interested in.

So you'll excuse me if I find your personal attacks somewhat laughable when you are commenting on something you have no experience with.

i don't even know you. so go stuff the "personal attacks" where the sun doesn't shine.


I really cannot see why you are constantly putting down performance for nickel and dime alternatives.

VIA have long been famed for making geat boards for the low budget consumer. they are still a great manufacturer.

they were "dissapointing" in comparison to Nforce2.

don't cry when i say AMD is a nikel and dime alternative to INTEL. its true if your statement about VIA is true.

As for my recommendation of the nForce3 250, it's the best available. Period. Apparently a lot of VIA fans think so too. I have seen loads of people dumping thier K8T800 boards for nVidia boards this past month.

You can't comment much on performance of the chipsets since the memory controllers on A64 and Opteron are built into the CPU. That makes it a toss the coin deal over which to get. The issue becomes what extras are included and how those extras perform.

its been benchmmarked and proven. get over yourself.

i have a dislike for VIA. :shrug:

your statement about people dumping boards they bought just a month or so ago is rediculous. very few people are fans of particular manufacturers.

your baised against INTEL

if AMD were in the position that intel are in with the resources etc etc.

they would do the same thing. ie expensive for the consumer.

same with SUN if they were in the position of MicroSoft.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by status quo
based on facts? dude the INTEL P4 beats and athlon XP hands down.

Congratulations. The first thing you have gotten right so far.

However back when I was rather vocal about the nForce2's, Intel was running 2.4 and 2.6 P4's. There wasn't quite compelling enough reason for me to change.

Back in 2002 when the A64 was supposedly coming out, I had enough of low perfromance and was shopping for a good Intel 875 chipset board and CPU.

Had it not been for getting on with Opteron beta testing in the fall of 2002, I would have switched.

Sort of shoots holes in your "AMD biased" cracks.


yes novelty. some people get excited when buying new hardware. all the "buzz" etc.

yes you may have the "fastest performance".

BUT is it neccessary?
and how does it relate to in real world?

what 30mins off a 12 hour render?

LOL! You crack me up. necessary?

When you consider several seconds difference PER FRAME OF ANIMATION, x the number of frames per second, times the number of seconds in a given animation, yeah, it adds up. Do the math.



i was only using farcry due to its popularity and as an example of what some people are like.

also an Athlon XP gets the job done for me.

A very bad example. The subject wasn't about Far Cry or benchies among geek pals.

Try reading the topic again. The guy gave a criteria. He wanted performance and was considering dual. He could go as far as 1100.00 or so.

His request was not for the cheapest possible setup on the market.

3D Studio Max performance on an XP is complete crap. That is a fact, look at any number of sites that have done comparisons.


i don't even know you. so go stuff the "personal attacks" where the sun doesn't shine.

And yet you feel yourself qualified to comment on my preferences and bias's. Since you admit to not knowing me, then I suggest you STFU and keep your uneducated comments to yourself in the future and stick to the topic at hand.

VIA have long been famed for making geat boards for the low budget consumer. they are still a great manufacturer.

they were "dissapointing" in comparison to Nforce2.

VIA has a long time reputation for being crap. Ask any IT department even going back to pre Athlon days on Intel.

VIA is the sole reason AMD got a bad rap for being an unstable system early on.

VIA made it very hard for AMD to be accepted in studios and with professionals due to incompatibility problems with common hardware.


don't cry when i say AMD is a nikel and dime alternative to INTEL. its true if your statement about VIA is true.


Is this the tech version of going "I know you are but what am I?"

Either way it's an incorrect statement. AMD has made quite a few tier one vendor wins since introducing 64 bit to the marketplace.

AMD Chipset boards and nVidia based boards can lay claim to broad compatibility with a wide range of hardware. VIA cannot say the same.

And if AMD were a nickel and dime alternative to Intel, then Intel would not be so desperate to play catch up by dumping most of their product lines in favor of copying x86-64 from AMD.

Intel has more resources and money. Intel has greater marketshare.

Last time I checked, stock values and corporate assets are not the determining factor in buying systems. Performance is.



ts been benchmmarked and proven. get over yourself.

i have a dislike for VIA. :shrug:

As I stated, the benchmarks are so close with them going back and forth that every reviewer has stated that you might as well toss a coin on general performance.

And I see you completely ignored the performance information on integrated components and the superior raid performance.

your statement about people dumping boards they bought just a month or so ago is rediculous. very few people are fans of particular manufacturers.

Nothing ridiculous about it, it's a fact. I have glanced through numerous threads on a number of forums and see the same thing.

Even a guy who was bashing nVidia and whining like a little baby about how bad nVidia sucked, goes out and buys a K8T800 and a couple of months later is selling it to get a NF3 250. And you can easily find numerous threads saying the same thing.

Not only that, you can find numerous threads on any number of forums saying the NF3 250 is the board to get.

So I suggest you refrain from calling people's remarks ridiculous unless you know it to be a fact.

[Tarrbot]

Wow! Looks like the Snit Brothers® are at it. Now all we need is elvis to come in and make us all aware that linux is the best thing since Cobal. (I love ya elvis, you know that. ;) )

MadMax states:Good raid performance is something an animator would be interested in
Uh, how so? WTF does RAID have to do with animation? Do you mean video? Please don't tell me you think RAID 0 is suitable for something other than video or some other short-term storage.

On a side note: MadMax you are an AMD bigot. No offense dude, it's patently obvious to anyone with half a brain. I'm still surprised you didn't respond to my Friday post about checking your facts but that's another thread in another lifetime.

MadMax, status quo comes off as pro-Intel but not so much as a bigot. You claim to "waver" in 2002 but went with AMD anyway. This doesn't lend any credence to your open-mindedness, ya know?

Bah, at any rate. This was amusing, at least.

Everyone just needs a good drink. :beer:

MadMax states:VIA is the sole reason AMD got a bad rap for being an unstable system early on.
<troll>

So how do you explain the stability of VIA chipsets on Intel platforms?

</troll>

Seriously, with this statement and your half-witted remarks about Intel 800 chipsets on Friday, I am beginning to think you know absolutely nothing about chipsets. Maybe that's just me, though. :(

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Tarrbot MadMax states:
Uh, how so? WTF does RAID have to do with animation? Do you mean video? Please don't tell me you think RAID 0 is suitable for something other than video or some other short-term storage.

Since I work across the spectrum of Animation, to compositing to NLE I blended my response. Yes, I should have specified video only.

On a side note: MadMax you are an AMD bigot. No offense dude, it's patently obvious to anyone with half a brain. I'm still surprised you didn't respond to my Friday post about checking your facts but that's another thread in another lifetime.

No offense? that hardly seems the case when you come in spouting off topic and making every effort to be as insulting as possible.

As for not responding to your other thread, there was really no point in it. First off there was nothing wrong with my facts. Intel products got recalled, lots of people had problems with them. A lot of systems and boards got returned because they didn't work or failed within a month of purchase.

MadMax, status quo comes off as pro-Intel but not so much as a bigot. You claim to "waver" in 2002 but went with AMD anyway. This doesn't lend any credence to your open-mindedness, ya know?

I'm sorry just how does making an informed decision or changing ones mind based on NEW information damage credibility?

Since you clearly failed to understand, lets make this clear for you so there is no mistake.

for awhile, nForce2 and XP's were a very GOOD choice. Intel kept releasing faster processors, AMD didn't. Then AMD and XP's were NOT as good a choice.

So when AMD failed to deliver A64 in the fall of 2002 as was being reported (AMDZone, AMDMB and others) claiming A64 boards were ready to launch and AMD was rumored to be releasing the A64 around October of 2002. I got impatient.

When November rolled around, and it was clear A64 wasn't coming anytime soon, I started looking for an Intel board since they were faster on all the major apps. An advantage they gained as time rolled by and AMD didn't release anything new.

However as I was looking to get a good high end workstation board from Intel, we got on the Opteron beta test program at work.

I got to see Opteron with all kinds of wonderful applications like Maya, Shake and other high end stuff. Opteron Spec scores were leaps and bounds higher performing than the now underpowered XP series.

Although the early Opterons were not the fastest thing around, there were a lot of indications based on the performance of the sample CPU's that the retail parts once in production would scream.

So I decided to wait a bit longer.

Apparently you do not comprehend the idea of making informed decisions.

I was going to buy Intel based on them being the fastest performer at the time, and before I made my purchase, they were no longer the best option.

Deciding to wait just a bit more is hardly a credibility destroying choice to make.


Bah, at any rate. This was amusing, at least.

I'm glad that you are so ignorant that you find making personal attacks and insults as entertaining. About what I would expect here.

So how do you explain the stability of VIA chipsets on Intel platforms?

What stability is that? You might even notice that our forum moderator here, Greg Hess, who is in IT as I recall, has some very negative things to say about VIA stability. As do most IT people.

You did label your comment correctly, it was a troll. It's obvious you know very little about the subject.

Seriously, with this statement and your half-witted remarks about Intel 800 chipsets on Friday, I am beginning to think you know absolutely nothing about chipsets. Maybe that's just me, though. :(

You'll forgive me if I don't put much into your trolling responses. Perhaps you might like to actually say something intelligent for a change? or is flame bait the best you are capable of?

Anyway, It is quite clear you have no clue about anything on the subject of chipsets or system hardware.

Numerous hardware vendors stated up front that their products would not work with AMD systems at all. DPS Perception cards, Hollywood DPS 10 bit editing systems etc. A fairly large volume of different vendors of professional application hardware.

And of course I must not know what I am talking about when our hardware lab tested HD and SD cards, SCSI controllers, NLE cards, and a number of other hardware products that didn't work at ALL on VIA based boards, but the exact same hardware worked flawlessly when moved to AMD chipset based boards and nVidia chipset based boards.

Judging from YOUR responses and your erroneous and factually devoid replies, it is clear that it is you who has little understanding of chipsets.

Please take your infantile prattle elsewhere.

[Tarrbot]

For the record, instead of having a "lab" test something and then inform you, MadMax, I did the testing and reported it for magazines online and print. Not that this matters, since my prattle is just useless crap to you. But I thought I'd point out some of my experience since you want to go that direction.

Additionally, I "work in IT" too. No sense trying to bring others to your defense when you seem to be the whiny brat who got his feelings hurt.

I pointed out that you seem to come off as an AMD bigot. My point about you "changing your mind" was only to bring up the fact that you were using this as an example of how open minded you are when in fact it doesn't even qualify as an example. That was the point, MadMax, not to berate you or belittle you.

In fact, you think I was making "every effort" to be insulting? If you only knew the restraint I use 99% of the time.

First off there was nothing wrong with my facts.
Your "facts" weren't in question, it was your representation of those facts.

MadMax, you claim I am making personal attacks when you are calling me ignorant and using various other ad hominems. Not sure where the hostility stems from, but it's old.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Tarrbot
For the record, instead of having a "lab" test something and then inform you, MadMax, I did the testing and reported it for magazines online and print. Not that this matters, since my prattle is just useless crap to you. But I thought I'd point out some of my experience since you want to go that direction.

Well for the record, I sat in on much of it and did a fair amount of the setups and testing. Even though it wasn't my primary responsibility.

Additionally, I "work in IT" too. No sense trying to bring others to your defense when you seem to be the whiny brat who got his feelings hurt.

YAWN. what next, you going to list your certifications now as well? Typical of the response I expected from you, more insults and more name calling.

I worked in IT once as well. I decided I hated corporate BS and having to wear a white shirt and tie. Besides, I make way more money now than IT could ever pay.

I pointed out that you seem to come off as an AMD bigot. My point about you "changing your mind" was only to bring up the fact that you were using this as an example of how open minded you are when in fact it doesn't even qualify as an example. That was the point, MadMax, not to berate you or belittle you.

Sorry but your "point" as you call it was pretty pointless. Perhaps you should be dealing with the facts instead of making personal attacks.

In fact, you think I was making "every effort" to be insulting? If you only knew the restraint I use 99% of the time.

Your personal problems are none of my concern. That you are so hostile that you find yourself forced to use restraint when people do not give in to your verbal attacks only indicates what an unstable person you are. I suggest you get help.

Stick to the subject or leave.

MadMax, you claim I am making personal attacks when you are calling me ignorant and using various other ad hominems. Not sure where the hostility stems from, but it's old.

And yet your very first post in this thread was attacking my comments and name calling.

Yes, you're a real model of credibility.

Where does your hostility come from? For that matter, where are any useful comments at all from you on the subject of this thread?

Like I said, take it somewhere else. You have nothing useful to provide.

[Dave Black]

Everyone better settle down here. This is not productive, nor acceptable.

I strongly urge both status quo, and Tarrbot to cease with the personal attacks. If you have unresolved issues, please take it up VIA the PM system. If I see you guys going at it again, I'll have to intercede.

Everyone here has something to bring to the table. Let's remember not to get caught up in arguments that lead nowhere.

Thank you for your cooperation, and lets get back on topic.

-Dave

[leigh]

Hey guys. keep the personal comments and attacks OFF THE FORUM PLEASE. Thanks.

[status quo]

well i was sleeping so:shrug:

+ im pro athlon 64 :shrug:

[Nils]

Well let's get this back on track. I would suggest the following upgrade for you.

Asus PC-DL deluxe Dual Xeon motherboard (tjeck it out here http://www.asus.com/products/server/srv-mb/pc-dl/overview.htm ), with 2 Xeon 3Gig CPUs and a gig of ram. That setup will cost you around 1000-1200$. You will have to buy a new PSU or an adapter cable, since the ASUS motherboard use a 24-pin power connector.

This upgrade will provide you with the best rendering and calculation power for your budget, since all of your aplications supports multiple CPUs.

regards
Nils

[Drexster]

Your all silly...
If you want an awesome computer with massive bang for your buck, suck it up and make the switch to apple...

The new Dual 64bit 2.5 Ghz liquid cooled system is 110% faster in render time than a 2.4 Ghz AMD Athlon 64.
And with the ability to have 8 Gigabytes of ram you could do multiple renders at a time no problem (i do)
as for apple being more expensive then pcs? they are... but you have consider what you get... firewire 800 (more then 2 times faster then usb 2), usb 2, gigabit ethernet, optical in and out... the list goes on, so stop following the masses and ditch that microsoft crap that barely runs.

Peace
:beer:

[status quo]

Your all silly...
If you want an awesome computer with massive bang for your buck, suck it up and make the switch to apple...

The new Dual 64bit 2.5 Ghz liquid cooled system is 110% faster in render time than a 2.4 Ghz AMD Athlon 64.
And with the ability to have 8 Gigabytes of ram you could do multiple renders at a time no problem (i do)
as for apple being more expensive then pcs? they are... but you have consider what you get... firewire 800 (more then 2 times faster then usb 2), usb 2, gigabit ethernet, optical in and out... the list goes on, so stop following the masses and ditch that microsoft crap that barely runs.

:rolleyes: - utter rubbish.

please be specific in what you mean 2.4GHZ AMD Athlon 64.

if your talking opterons they would blow your head off.

8GB ram? its not only ram you need but the extra processing power to do multiple renders.

you need a balanced system not excess.

as for apple being more expensive then pcs? they are... but you have consider what you get... firewire 800 (more then 2 times faster then usb 2), usb 2, gigabit ethernet, optical in and out... the list goes on, so stop following the masses and ditch that microsoft crap that barely runs

crap that barely runs? my computer has been on non-stop for the last 32 days. no crashes no faults no nothing. i use microsoft windows XP.

i have no viruses.

and all that firewire crap? it comes as standard on a $50 board. i have firewire i just don't use it.

what the hell applications could i run on apple anyway? :)

[Drexster]

Well, i don't know what to tell you status, i don't want to argue with you but uhh... what program can't you run on osx? the new version of premiere!?!?!? holy crap!! ill stick with final cut any day anyways... as for the 50$ firewire board i agrea with you, but i was simply trying to make the point that so many things come standard with a mac and they all run flawlessly with no need for drivers... and there are no harmfull virusses on the osx platform so no need to worry about that.
And trust me a unix based system is much much more stable than ol' XP.
o, as for the ram your right that would be excess (8 gb) personaly i only 1.5GB and that seams to be enough for me to fire off simultaneous renders.
Seriously you should put your Microsoft friend aside for a little and just try OS X for a week
you wont be disappointed!
:thumbsup:

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Drexster
Well, i don't know what to tell you status, i don't want to argue with you but uhh... what program can't you run on osx?



Um, maybe the 3D Studio Max that he is buying the computer for in the first place?

[Drexster]

Touche!

lol

[status quo]

so many things come standard with a mac and they all run flawlessly with no need for drivers... and there are no harmfull virusses on the osx platform so no need to worry about that.

i could use linux if i wanted more security.

for windows bashers see the "illiterate hacker" on theinquirer.net

drivers? you get cd's for that. and everything comes on a unified NFORCE driver.

on second thoughts perhaps the 250 is better than VIA :)

worry? the computer ain't gonna blow up in my face.

[status quo]

^^ sounds bad :)

no its trying to say - those sort of people don't use things like linux yet ie taking advantage of your/my granny (for example) who doesn't patch.

so using say a port scanner, then looking the relevant flaw on the internet and bam hacked/viruses.

also if people are too stupid to see an e-mail that they don't understand, and or they don't filter their mail for common spam messages - what do you expect?

i think it says more about the people being infected.

on another note with a company such as microsoft with their resources there umm patching process is lousy.

[Drexster]

ohh... ok
have fun downloading your service packs... and uhh when longhorn comes around and you need that 6ghz machine to run it and you realise, holy crap... this is exactly like os x...
and not flaming windows man, i love the little bugger, i just get frustrated with it's instability and constant memory leaks, and fatal errors (i have 2 windows machines and 2 macs, plus i work in a windows lab)
ohh by the way how DID you get your machine to run for 30 or how ever many days? (you should think of rebooting every once in a while anyway hey)
;)

[Drexster]

yoh status
i seriously don't mean to be arguing or anything like that.
i really do like windows and alot of its features, i just prefer os x and linux on the side
but on another note
what kind of machine you got?

[richcz3]

I splurged 5 minutes ago.

AMD64 3400/CHTECH VNF3-250 NFORCE3 250/ 1gig GEIL3200DDRam/ATI 9800XT 256MB/WD160GB/DVD/Floppy/Raidmax Case
$1450.42 tax included.

I'm gonna compare it against an AMD Mobile XP2400 running at 2.2/NF7-S V2 ABIT/1Gig GEIL3200DDRam/ATI 9800 Pro/WD160GB/DVD/Floppy/Raidmax Case
That system cost $$740.02 tax included

I am doing this to help (help is the key word here) shed some lite on performance % gains accross AMD processor lines.



richcz3

[Vinzke]

Originally posted by MadMax
Um, maybe the 3D Studio Max that he is buying the computer for in the first place?

:lightbulb indeed .. lol :thumbsup:

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Vinzke
:lightbulb indeed .. lol :thumbsup:


every now and then it helps to keep things in perspective......

[kex]

poor guy just wanted some advice... turned into world war 3

lol

[status quo]

Nforce 2
Geforce 4 MX 128mb
1024mb pc 2700 crossair XMS
120GB WD 8mb SE HD
LG 8x DVD writer.
250W silent X PSU
Integarated sound on mobo.
assorted fans etc.

OMG! my computer will explode because my psu is crap (in advance for the annoying) and my gfx card sux etc etc.

i can tell you i see no difference between the MX and a ti4600 in the games i play. :bounce:

heh . . . before the MX i had a 16mb 3DFX card. for few weeks and a ti4600 before that. :argh:

and yes my computer has been runing for 30+ days.

current CPU idle temp 47C its summer - very hot :)

[richcz3]

status quo
What is that on, a small form factor case like a Shuttle?

As for the MX, the hardware shaders are whats different between the ti4600. The fact that it suits your needs is what matters.

richcz3

[status quo]

status quo
What is that on, a small form factor case like a Shuttle?

As for the MX, the hardware shaders are whats different between the ti4600. The fact that it suits your needs is what matters.


i agree with your comment.

just saying playing BF1942, SOF2,GTA VC etc. i notice no difference in image quality.

:shrug: - dissapointment.

keep us updated on how the A64 tests go. - dont just use a benchmarking program.

ie do a render time how long it takes on the different setups

:thumbsup:

[Tarrbot]

It's not at all uncommon for a Windows machine to be able to run 24/7. The only reason this machine hasn't been up for 30+ days is that I quit a job (from lack of pay) and moved. Running an uptime script shows this machine has had an average of 21+ days between reboots (and this is counting video card upgrades, service packs, moving, etc.

=====================
Since 1/1/2004:

System Availability: 99.6448%
Total Uptime: 152d 11h:22m:41s
Total Downtime: 0d 13h:2m:37s
Total Reboots: 7
Mean Time Between Reboots: 21.86 days
Total Bluescreens: 0
=====================


I still have a W2K AS machine running back in TX that has been up for who knows how long.

I'm a firm believer in the line of thought that more problems are caused by shutting a system down and restarting it later. When do most problems occur?

Yep, when they boot up. ;)

[richcz3]

Originally posted by status quo
keep us updated on how the A64 tests go. - dont just use a benchmarking program.

ie do a render time how long it takes on the different setups

:thumbsup: Part of my system came in today, the rest comes in tomorrow. I'll burn it in and get some tests for this weekend. I use Lightwave and maybe Premiere Pro to render as well as some Game benchmarks.


richcz3

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